How bout we just stop eating wild hogs
Warfarin approved for feral hog poisoning in Texas
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Last: 6 yr ago by ursusguy
Think of this common pen feeder. My dad once made one out of metal, probably 1/8", without the tall tower. We put it out by deer blinds for the hogs. It was tough enough they could not damage it. But they could uproot it from the tiedown posts after enough effort. Ours had another lid on the opposite side so the pigs could feed against each other which helped keep the feeder in place.
The lid hangs over maybe 1/4" and that is what the pig catches with his snout to open it. I am thinking it is entirely possible for a cow to learn to lift that lid. So I am wondering what design they have that only a pig can get into the feeder.
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[/url] I got tired of them a long time ago. Then I tasted some at the St. Louis Wild Game Dinner in Castroville recently. That got me interested in cooking them again. The flavor had some slight vinegar, and slight sweetness, so I am waiting for a chance to kill a pig and try a couple of variations of vinegar/sugar sop.Chazz03 said:
How bout we just stop eating wild hogs
Here's a pic of one of Kaput's feeders. The lid weighs about 10 lbs, so deer, raccoons, etc. can't lift the lid, but supposedly the hogs are strong enough that they can. The cubes are impregnated with blue dye, and after one feeding, the dye deposits in the subcutaneous fat. So you will know if you shoot a hog with blue innards, probly a good idea to let that one lay. Can't speak to what the residual effect on secondary scavengers would be.
I can't wait to give this a try.
Hogs are competitors with deer and studies now show the significant predation on ground nesting birds like turkey and quail.
Not to mention the damage to agriculture.
We need to get rid of every single one of them
Hogs are competitors with deer and studies now show the significant predation on ground nesting birds like turkey and quail.
Not to mention the damage to agriculture.
We need to get rid of every single one of them
yeah, b/c a single t post will keep it from being knocked over.Micropterus said:
Here's a pic of one of Kaput's feeders. The lid weighs about 10 lbs, so deer, raccoons, etc. can't lift the lid, but supposedly the hogs are strong enough that they can. The cubes are impregnated with blue dye, and after one feeding, the dye deposits in the subcutaneous fat. So you will know if you shoot a hog with blue innards, probly a good idea to let that one lay. Can't speak to what the residual effect on secondary scavengers would be.
that's interesting info about the blue dye though.
gnarly
So is that a fatal dosage or did someone still have to put that pig down with a bullet?
I think that pig was killed in California. They shot it, cut it open to gut, then found the blue fat.
Yeah, that photo has been floating around for several months.
What is interesting, looking USDA-WS documentation, the reason warfarin wasn't approved before was because of concerns with secondary impacts.
What is interesting, looking USDA-WS documentation, the reason warfarin wasn't approved before was because of concerns with secondary impacts.
chris1515 said:
I feel like this might be effective in eliminating a single group of hogs that are causing problems in one location, but this isn't going to be practical on a large scale.
It bothers me that the announcement indicates they are stopping research on any other solutions. I guess the Ag Commish is pretty confident that this is the silver bullet.
Given that the Ag Commish is Sid "lemme take a ride for free" Miller, I am cynical that due diligence has been practiced w/regards to effects.
Yep. I hope there was no illicit "back scratching" involved in this decision.
The blue fat is very interesting.
The blue fat is very interesting.
The blue hog story. It was blue dye put in rat poison, per a UC Davis vet. The hog was shot before the poison got it.
http://www.businessinsider.com/blue-pig-fat-photo-explained-2016-3
http://www.businessinsider.com/blue-pig-fat-photo-explained-2016-3
Here's a link to the product label. Page 4 pretty much confirms issues for non target species, including humans.
https://www3.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_search/ppls/072500-00026-20170103.pdf
https://www3.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_search/ppls/072500-00026-20170103.pdf
Founder of the company got his MS at A&M, fwiw. He's a coonass, go figure. "Baw we foundt a new way to make some blue boudin, yeah. Gives me the scours like crazy tho."
I wonder if there's any adverse taste or smell that may keep predators away from the carcasses.
skelso said:
Here's a link to the product label. Page 4 pretty much confirms issues for non target species, including humans.
https://www3.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_search/ppls/072500-00026-20170103.pdf
Remove all livestock for 90 days
Yeah, they seem to have glossed over a few details when making the announcement.
Like the try and find and bury all carcasses.
Like the try and find and bury all carcasses.
35chililights
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Quote:
This product may be toxic to fish, birds and other wildlife. Dogs and other predatory and scavenging mammals and birds might be poisoned if they feed upon animals that have eaten the bait. Do not apply this product directly to water, to areas where surface water is present or to intertidal areas below the mean high-water mark. Do not contaminate water when disposing of equipment wash waters.
Quote:
USE RESTRICTIONS: This product may only be used to control feral hogs (Sus scrofa) on pastures, rangeland, forests, non-crop areas, and crop lands. This bait may only be applied in hog feeders equipped with heavy lids (8 to 10 lbs. of total weight) on bait compartments so as to limit direct access to bait by nontarget animals. Feral hogs must be conditioned to accept feed from the bait dispensers and to open the weighted lids to bait compartments. Kaput Feral Hog Bait: Page 3 of 5 Final Label 01.03.17
Do not apply this bait directly on the ground, including all types of ground surface (e.g., bare or plant-covered ground, paved surfaces, etc.). Apply this product only in hog feeders consistent with the description provided above.
Apply bait in fenced areas, if available.
When handling bait or animal carcasses, wear protective gloves made of barrier laminate, polyethylene, butyl rubber (>14 mils), nitrile rubber (>14 mils), neoprene rubber (>14 mils), natural rubber (>14 mils), polyvinyl chloride (>14 mils), or Viton (>14 mils).
Store this product out of reach of children, pets, domesticated animals, and wildlife.
Post bilingual caution signs (English and Spanish) in the treated areas to warn the public of the presence of the Warfarin bait and to forbid disturbance of bait dispensers and hog carcasses. Post these signs on public roads, trails, and pathways within and at common points of access to treated areas.
Quote:
All carcasses found must be disposed of properly.
Quote:
If burial is not practical (e.g., due to frozen or extremely hard ground) and other disposal methods are allowed by State and local authorities, carcasses may be disposed of by other methods to ensure that carcasses are not accessible to scavengers.
Quote:
Do not apply this product directly to water, to areas where surface water is present or to intertidal areas below the mean high-water mark.
Quote:
Locate hog feeders in or near probable resting areas for hogs, including brush along streams, dense cover, and tall vegetation.
Sounds nearly as dangerous as the labels on most household cleaners.
So we can now use lead shot for waterfowl? Seems less invasive than this crap.
Talked to a friend who sells herbicides and pesticides today. He said he expects to have Kaput for hogs for sale at his place in Tyler in 3 to 4 weeks. Said you have to have a feeder and there is a video you watch on how to use it. Pricing he mentioned was about $175 for a 25 pound bucket.
On Tuesday, the Texas Agriculture Commissioner's Office emailed CBS11 this statement:
We did not make this rule change to list warfarin as a state-limited-use pesticide without fully reviewing the data and research available on this product. Kaput Feral Hog Bait has been researched extensively and field-tested in Texas over the past decade in partnerships with various state agencies including TDA. Hogs are susceptible to warfarin toxicity, whereas humans and other animals require much higher levels of exposure to achieve toxic effects.
EPA approved Kaput Feral Hog Bait's pesticide labeling with the signal word "Caution," which is the lowest category of toxicity to humans requiring a signal word. Although the EPA did not list this product as a federal restricted-use product, we made the decision to list warfarin as a state-limited-use pesticide in Texas so that purchase and application is made only by educated, licensed pesticide applicators who have been trained specifically on the use of this product. The product may be only bought and used by licensed pesticide applicators when dispensed in specially-designed hog feeders that have weighted lids that only open from the bottom, making it difficult for other animals to be exposed to the bait.
Warfarin has been studied extensively in animals and is practically non-toxic to birds. Due to the insolubility of warfarin in water, there should be no impact to aquatic life. Non-target wildlife, livestock and domestic pets would have to ingest extremely large quantities over the course of several days to reach a toxic level of warfarin in the bloodstream. In the event of unintended exposure, the antidote, Vitamin K, can be administered by a veterinarian. In general, secondary exposure to other animals is low because the levels of warfarin in target animals are generally too low to be toxic to either a predator or scavenger.
Warfarin at 0.005 percent as a feral hog toxicant has been shown to have a low level of residue in hog meat, especially in muscle tissue, which is what humans typically consume. One person would have to eat 2.2 lbs of hog liverwhere the warfarin is most concentrated in the bodyto achieve the same exposure as a human would receive in one therapeutic dose of warfarin (current therapeutic levels range from 2 to 10 mg daily). Warfarin metabolizes and exits the body fairly quickly, so a hog that was trapped and fed for several days prior to processing would most likely not have any warfarin present at the time of slaughter.
In addition, hogs who have consumed the warfarin bait will have blue dye present in the fatty tissues as soon as 24 hours after ingestion. The dye builds up in the fatty tissue, so the more bait the hog has consumed, the brighter blue the tissues will be, signaling hunters that this hog has ingested the bait. Blue dye is present in the fat directly underneath the skin as well as in the fat deposits surrounding organs and in the aforementioned liver. All will take on the characteristic blue tint of the dye, which serves as a visual indicator of bait ingestion.
We did not make this rule change to list warfarin as a state-limited-use pesticide without fully reviewing the data and research available on this product. Kaput Feral Hog Bait has been researched extensively and field-tested in Texas over the past decade in partnerships with various state agencies including TDA. Hogs are susceptible to warfarin toxicity, whereas humans and other animals require much higher levels of exposure to achieve toxic effects.
EPA approved Kaput Feral Hog Bait's pesticide labeling with the signal word "Caution," which is the lowest category of toxicity to humans requiring a signal word. Although the EPA did not list this product as a federal restricted-use product, we made the decision to list warfarin as a state-limited-use pesticide in Texas so that purchase and application is made only by educated, licensed pesticide applicators who have been trained specifically on the use of this product. The product may be only bought and used by licensed pesticide applicators when dispensed in specially-designed hog feeders that have weighted lids that only open from the bottom, making it difficult for other animals to be exposed to the bait.
Warfarin has been studied extensively in animals and is practically non-toxic to birds. Due to the insolubility of warfarin in water, there should be no impact to aquatic life. Non-target wildlife, livestock and domestic pets would have to ingest extremely large quantities over the course of several days to reach a toxic level of warfarin in the bloodstream. In the event of unintended exposure, the antidote, Vitamin K, can be administered by a veterinarian. In general, secondary exposure to other animals is low because the levels of warfarin in target animals are generally too low to be toxic to either a predator or scavenger.
Warfarin at 0.005 percent as a feral hog toxicant has been shown to have a low level of residue in hog meat, especially in muscle tissue, which is what humans typically consume. One person would have to eat 2.2 lbs of hog liverwhere the warfarin is most concentrated in the bodyto achieve the same exposure as a human would receive in one therapeutic dose of warfarin (current therapeutic levels range from 2 to 10 mg daily). Warfarin metabolizes and exits the body fairly quickly, so a hog that was trapped and fed for several days prior to processing would most likely not have any warfarin present at the time of slaughter.
In addition, hogs who have consumed the warfarin bait will have blue dye present in the fatty tissues as soon as 24 hours after ingestion. The dye builds up in the fatty tissue, so the more bait the hog has consumed, the brighter blue the tissues will be, signaling hunters that this hog has ingested the bait. Blue dye is present in the fat directly underneath the skin as well as in the fat deposits surrounding organs and in the aforementioned liver. All will take on the characteristic blue tint of the dye, which serves as a visual indicator of bait ingestion.
What could possibly go wrong? (Sarcasm intended)
Anyone know if this will be tracked geographically or by permit? I've heard that when herbicide is commercially applied the contractor notifies the neighboring land owners, but I don't know if it's tracked by permits or per county basis. Would be nice to know where this is being used.
I would be curious to know what the residual level of warfarin is in the meat from a hog that died from the bait.
I was on the fence until I read the label and precautions. Gloves, gathering and burying the carcasses, and no cattle grazing for 90 days tells me that the residual is higher than they are letting on.
I was on the fence until I read the label and precautions. Gloves, gathering and burying the carcasses, and no cattle grazing for 90 days tells me that the residual is higher than they are letting on.
doubleag91 said:
I would be curious to know what the residual level of warfarin is in the meat from a hog that died from the bait.
I was on the fence until I read the label and precautions. Gloves, gathering and burying the carcasses, and no cattle grazing for 90 days tells me that the residual is higher than they are letting on.
Not necessarily... It sounds a lot more like CYA. They have to write those precautions to limit their liability.
halfbean said:
Talked to a friend who sells herbicides and pesticides today. He said he expects to have Kaput for hogs for sale at his place in Tyler in 3 to 4 weeks. Said you have to have a feeder and there is a video you watch on how to use it. Pricing he mentioned was about $175 for a 25 pound bucket.
How many hogs does that $175 kill?
Thats pretty steep.Quote:
Pricing he mentioned was about $175 for a 25 pound bucket
Im sure the feeder will cost several hundred dollars as well.
We have a lot of large loner hogs that might eat that up in one night.
Would hate to spend several hundred bucks to kill one hog
The properties of Warfarin are such that it breaks down the Vitamin K in Blood.
Enter warfarin based bait. Hogs typically have a lot of parasites plus the normal tendency of any body to have small hemorrhages going on at all times, eats the bait and can no longer control the hemorrhaging and starts to bleed internally.
Then he dies right? No, he gets really thirsty and heads to your water supply. Be it a lake, river, stream, stock pond etc, So he gets a drink but now he is so weak from blood loss he can't make it out of the water, remember hogs/pigs love water they don't drink from the waters edge they wade out to drink and help control their body temp. Now for any one who hasn't got the picture what happens next is he dies and his body swells from it's gases and he floats. So this dead floating hog is floating in a stream or river possibly several miles up stream from the lake you live on or your city gets its water from now a rain comes and this hog and his buddy's who have also died and are floating or laying along the bank of every stream or river that empty's into your lake/water supply float into your Lake /water supply.
Oh did I mention they are still floating?
Remember in order to poison a hog the bait has to go where they live, and they live near water!
Don't get me wrong hogs are a huge problem and need to be dealt with, and this may be the best way, but I foresee a huge out cry from the public when they start showing up in the rivers that flow through your town or city and/or into your water supply.
Enter warfarin based bait. Hogs typically have a lot of parasites plus the normal tendency of any body to have small hemorrhages going on at all times, eats the bait and can no longer control the hemorrhaging and starts to bleed internally.
Then he dies right? No, he gets really thirsty and heads to your water supply. Be it a lake, river, stream, stock pond etc, So he gets a drink but now he is so weak from blood loss he can't make it out of the water, remember hogs/pigs love water they don't drink from the waters edge they wade out to drink and help control their body temp. Now for any one who hasn't got the picture what happens next is he dies and his body swells from it's gases and he floats. So this dead floating hog is floating in a stream or river possibly several miles up stream from the lake you live on or your city gets its water from now a rain comes and this hog and his buddy's who have also died and are floating or laying along the bank of every stream or river that empty's into your lake/water supply float into your Lake /water supply.
Oh did I mention they are still floating?
Remember in order to poison a hog the bait has to go where they live, and they live near water!
Don't get me wrong hogs are a huge problem and need to be dealt with, and this may be the best way, but I foresee a huge out cry from the public when they start showing up in the rivers that flow through your town or city and/or into your water supply.
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