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Warfarin approved for feral hog poisoning in Texas

22,809 Views | 102 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by ursusguy
chris1515
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It would be more effective to build a feeder that only smaller pigs can get into. More efficient to kill ten 20-30 lbs hogs than a single 200 lb'er.

But at that pricing this isn't going to make a material dent in the problem, IMO.
halfbean
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chris1515 said:

halfbean said:

Talked to a friend who sells herbicides and pesticides today. He said he expects to have Kaput for hogs for sale at his place in Tyler in 3 to 4 weeks. Said you have to have a feeder and there is a video you watch on how to use it. Pricing he mentioned was about $175 for a 25 pound bucket.


How many hogs does that $175 kill?




He said it takes a little over a pound for a large hog. So about 20 hogs per bucket if they only eat that much. Seems like the guy above said, one hog would eat half a bucket but will only do it one time. They are trying to make feeders and may get priefert to help them is what he said. The bait isn't supposed to hurt birds so the buzzards are safe.
doubleag91
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I talked to an employee at Scimetrics yesterday. I was told that a 100# pig would need to consume 5# of bait to get a lethal dose. He also told me that a less than lethal dose of warfarin is completely metabolized within 48 hours.

His final response was that it would not be available until May 1st and that many of the questions being asked would be answered before rollout.
doubleag91
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The more I look at this Kaput deal, the more it feels like mostly a PR stunt for the Ag Commissioner.
Mathguy64
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doubleag91 said:

The more I look at this Kaput deal, the more it feels like mostly a PR stunt for the Ag Commissioner.
The more I look at this Kaput deal, the more it feels like someone's brother in law is getting a ton of money in a brown paper bag.
agent-maroon
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Quote:

Miller has informed the Legislature that $900,000 in TDA's budget previously earmarked for feral hog control research will no longer be necessary as a result of this rule change and has asked that the appropriation be removed from the current TDA budget pending before the Legislature.

From the link in the OP.

Here's the reason I think makes the most sense. This guy just wants to be free of a problem that can't be solved.
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Bradley.Kohr.II
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We had a large big problem in the 1880s - as did Florida. I suspect some disease helped, but, I'm sure, so did roundups and large scale trapping.

This may be a good area for a prize method - say $10MM to the company that can depopulate a county of them
Counterpoint
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water turkey said:

What could possibly go wrong? (Sarcasm intended)
Zombie apocalypse?
chris1515
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Bradley.Kohr.II said:

We had a large big problem in the 1880s - as did Florida. I suspect some disease helped, but, I'm sure, so did roundups and large scale trapping.



I suspect a whole lot of people who were dirt poor and hunted anything that moved to feed their family helped a lot in that case.



BurrOak
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Quote:

Texas Hog Hunters Association and Wild Boar meat company successfully had an injunction placed against Sid Miller which invalidates his emergency rule for the use of a warfarin based poison to be used against Feral Hogs.

LINK
BCO07
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Hmmm, I don't know that I love the idea of warfarin for hogs, but those guys opinions are completely unimportant in this case.
guyace
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A county (Medina) agent brought some paperwork by the local hardware store today.

I will try to take a photo of it and post it later.

He did mention that it takes up to 36 hours for the dye to metabolize into the fat. He also mentioned that the product should be hitting the shelf in about a month.
chris1515
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http://www.mystatesman.com/news/judge-blocks-rule-change-allowing-feral-hog-poisoning/5iihBGfcPzuV7hvSuNmApI/

And...not so fast my friends.
KRamp90
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Neches21
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Not good. We need more tools for hog control and eradication.
Hogs are destructive on native wildlife (turkey, quail, deer) and plant communities as well as clean water
ursusguy
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TWA has officially come out against it until more information is made available.
TexasAggie_02
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FWIW:

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/scimetrics-ltd-corp-releases-facts-on-kaput-feral-hog-bait-300421327.html

Quote:

Warfarin residues in hog livers are below 5 mg/kg. The average daily dose for humans on warfarin ranges between 2-10 mg.
Quote:

To measure how toxic chemicals are an international benchmark is used, termed LD-50 or lethal dose to kill 50% of the test animals, which is normally assessed in rats. It is determined in milligrams (mg) per kilogram (kg) of body weight. As an example, the LD-50 for aspirin is 200 mg/kg, Vitamin D3 37 mg/kg, and caffeine 192 mg/kg. The LD-50 for Kaput Feral Hog Bait is 60,000 mg/kg.
Quote:

How much Kaput Feral Hog Bait would be required to harm a turkey? For a 15.4-lb bird, 29 lbs of bait eaten daily for 19 days; bobwhite quail, 27.5 lbs of bait eaten daily; a 44-lb dog, 13.2 lbs a day for 5 days; an 880-lb steer would have to eat 3520 lbs daily for 5 days (A.P. Meehan 1984).
OnlyForNow
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So who can tell me why a procine metabolizes warfarin so differently than other large mammals?
Mathguy64
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KTRK (Ch 13, Houston) just reported on their 10 o'clock news that a new tool was approved by the Ag Commisioner. They would be "spraying" a chemical designed to kill hogs.

Idiots. I get they are just reading the news on a TelePrompTer and the anchors don't really know what they are saying but someone had to write that. And that person is a grade A idiot.
ursusguy
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The company has withdrawn registration in Texas.

://www.texas-wildlife.org/resources/news/scimetrics-ltd-corp-has-withdrawn-its-registration-of-kaput-feral-hog-bait
AgTrip
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http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/wild-boars-overrun-islamic-state-position-kill-3-militants/ar-BBAmjUs?li=BBnb7Kz

Maybe we send them overseas???
ursusguy
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Ironically, Sid Miller and I were supposed to be speaking at the same feral hog function next week. Out of the blue today, his people cancelled.

Watched him trying to explain the science last weekend, we'll just say it was painful.
Sean98
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Ursus can correct me, but seemingly the only states that have successfully dealt with they're hog problems began their solution by making recreational hog hunting illegal. Remove the economic incentive for people to protect the hog population and a whole world of possibilities open up. That may well be impossible in Texas due to how ingrained the feeder culture is (not to mention the political difficulties).

Eradicating hogs is never easy, but it becomes a little more realistic when people want them gone. Right now I would guess large numbers of hunters like having them around to break up the boredom.
HTownAg98
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ursusguy said:

Ironically, Sid Miller and I were supposed to be speaking at the same feral hog function next week. Out of the blue today, his people cancelled.

Watched him trying to explain the science last weekend, we'll just say it was painful.

I'm not sure I would let anyone who went to get a Jesus Shot comment about anything science related.
Bradley.Kohr.II
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A) How the hell is there a hog hunters association?

B) I do not recall ever hearig anyone publicly defend those vermin.
Sean98
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Bradley.Kohr.II said:


B) I do not recall ever hearig anyone publicly defend those vermin.

A great many people do. I've seen people on this board do it. I think it's an outcome of leasing personally. They're an abundant, year round target, and it's not YOUR land they're destroying because you live 3 hours away. So in that sense they're fun for leaseholders to have around.
ursusguy
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It's also not so much defending the hogs, it's the apparent lack of published research on the matter. I know most of the top feral hog guys, and no one knew this was coming. Big red flag for me, Australia of all places quit using warfarin on pigs.
HTownAg98
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ursusguy said:

It's also not so much defending the hogs, it's the apparent lack of published research on the matter. I know most of the top feral hog guys, and no one knew this was coming. Big red flag for me, Australia of all places quit using warfarin on pigs.

Wait, so you mean to tell me an idiot AG commissioner made a rash decision? You don't say...
agfan2013
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Quote:

Quote:

A great many people do. I've seen people on this board do it. I think it's an outcome of leasing personally. They're an abundant, year round target, and it's not YOUR land they're destroying because you live 3 hours away. So in that sense they're fun for leaseholders to have around.


I think this is very true. Gives guys an excuse to still go out to the lease out of season and its not their own land the pigs are destroying so no skin off their back. Very different story when you see a pack of 30 crossing your own pasture.

I dont know much about the science behind the poison, but I'm hoping they do some studies on it. We need something, that is 100% true. I dont care how we go about it, but something needs to be done.
Bradley.Kohr.II
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I'm not taking a position on the poison - I'll defer to others more knowledgeable about it.

But any advocacy for feral pigs just seems to be such a clear example of bad stewardship that it seems hard to take.

OnlyForNow
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I think there are some people who are using the warfarin "boogey-man" as a scapegoat, knowing that they stand to lose a lot of money if the feral hog population is significantly decimated.
Oogway
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I think this topic has been discussed on the Politics Board, but since it resurfaced, thought you all might enjoy the latest in the Sid Miller Show: https://www.texastribune.org/2017/05/15/private-meeting-sid-miller-says-hog-poison-restrictions-not-doable/
ursusguy
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As mentioned before, I spoke at a function (specifically on feral hogs) that Miller was originally set to speak at. Miller backed out of showing up (right after the company withdrew registration), but he very well could have had a legit conflict. The Ag Department did send a representative. ALL he had was talking points, he could not directly answer any question. However, his stump speech for Miller and warfarin would have gotten me fired when I was with TPWD (legislative related instructions). I was in a room full of folks looking to kill pigs strictly for management purposes, and I don't think any of us walked away thinking this was a practical idea....or likely to work all that well.
ursusguy
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Louisiana changed their mind too.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/louisiana/articles/2017-04-19/wild-hogs-poison-halted-due-to-concerns-over-black-bear
 
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