Thanks. I already do most of that. I'm just irritated because I can't find a way to draw, fire two shots, get on next target and fire two more shots. All in dry fire SA mode. I may just be trying to over do it and actually get to the range more for live practice.

Also, when shooting IDPA, do you start in SA or DA? What about USPSA?

I started in SA at my last USPSA event (cocked and safety on) and the range master made me switch to DA on one of the stages. It was my last stage and no one made that comment on the other stages. Really confused me.

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I started in SA at my last USPSA event (cocked and safety on) and the range master made me switch to DA on one of the stages. It was my last stage and no one made that comment on the other stages. Really confused me.

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Depends on what division you were shooting.

Here's what the rule book has to say about ready condition in USPSA:

8.1.2 Self-loading Pistols:

8.1.2.1 "Single action" chamber loaded, hammer cocked, and the safety engaged.

8.1.2.2 "Double action" chamber loaded, hammer fully down or decocked.

8.1.2.3 "Selective action" chamber loaded with hammer fully down, or chamber loaded and hammer cocked with external safety engaged (see Divisions in Appendix D).

Now, that being said, if you're shooting Production it has an extra rule:

Special conditions: Handguns with external hammers must be fully decocked at the start signal,

So, if you were shooting Production with something like a CZ-75, you're supposed to start every time with the hammer down.

If you're shooting Limited or Open with a "selective action" gun that can be shot either cocked in SA with a safety on or DA with the hammer down, you can choose to do either you prefer.

Thanks. I found out that that is the same for IPDA SSP and ESP.

I got confused because during an IDPA shoot, the range master told me to go cocked and locked, but I guess he thought I was shooting ESP not SSP. So from then on that's what I did.

Guess I should have read both rule books before shooting the competitions.. haha

Oh, don't get me started about IDPA rules.

I'm especially grouchy about the "can't drop a magazine with any ammo in it" rule.

All that crap listed above is why we don't shoot IDPA!

The crap I posted above is from the USPSA rulebook......

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Oh, don't get me started about IDPA rules.

I'm especially grouchy about the "can't drop a magazine with any ammo in it" rule.

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So I assume you like to shoot USPSA more than IDPA. Why? Is it the rules or is uspsa just more fun?

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The crap I posted above is from the USPSA rulebook......

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Maybe I should read the rule book! Nah....

I also shoot an M&P. NO cocking. NO safety.

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Is it the rules or is uspsa just more fun?

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USPSA is just way more fun!

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So I assume you like to shoot USPSA more than IDPA. Why? Is it the rules or is uspsa just more fun?

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Answer to both is yes? ha.

I shoot both, will continue to shoot both, but yes....I far prefer USPSA to IDPA. Partly due to the rules, partly due to stage set up. USPSA is problem solving and trying to figure out how you can quickly clear the course in a way that you choose. IDPA is "you have to shoot this scenario this exact way" more on the rails style shooting with not much room to let you try and problem solve or be creative.

Some history and some ranting: IPSC/USPSA used to be all there was. in the '90s, people started shooting the guns that are now in the open division: red dots, compensators, mag wells, etc. This bothered some folks who felt that USPSA had become to "game like" with people only chasing what performed well at a match and ignoring that it was supposed to be practical shooting, designed to prepare you to defend yourself with a pistol.

So people like Bill Wilson (of Wilson Combat fame) split off from USPSA and created IDPA, with the intent that IDPA was going to be kept purely about practical shooting scenarios and rules that reinforced that.

Then, they created a bunch of rules that people game anyway. If you go to an IDPA match, I can almost guarantee that 99% of the shooters there will be drawing/shooting from an IDPA specific holster that they do not carry their gun with, if they're even shooting with their carry pistol.

Dropping a magazine on the ground with any ammo left is a penalty. Never mind the fact that if I'm in a defensive shooting, the last thing I'm going to be doing is thinking "Oh, better retain that magazine with two rounds in it!" if I'm reloading and moving to cover.

Even ESP (the only category my carry gun fits into) maxes you at at 10 rounds. If this is about "practical shooting", you could disallow extended magazines and have people fill to capacity...which for my gun would be 14, not 10. Doesn't seem like good practical training to have me shoot at a limited capacity and train myself to spend time storing/retaining mostly empty magazines.

USPSA and IDPA are both good tools to practice shooting and moving under stress, and taking a variety of shots at different ranges, angles, difficulties, etc. I still think both can be valuable learning exercises for someone wanting to carry a pistol to defend themselves....as long as they remember both are competitions that have game rules that don't necessarily translate to things you should do in a defensive shooting.

My real beef with IDPA is that while USPSA knows and understands that it is a shooting competition, IDPA seems to still think they're more self defense training than competition....which is not true, at all. Especially when they include rules that they think are self defense oriented which are in reality, stupid.

Sadly, I'm done shooting either competition for the year. Started training for the BCS half marathon in December. I'm out of shape and need to focus on training for the run, and my long run days are all scheduled for Sundays anyway.

I'm going to keep shooting/practicing/dry firing, but I won't pull the trigger in either competition again until January....which makes me sad. But I need to run and lose some weight, so priorities had to shift.

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USPSA is just way more fun!

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And of course 3 Gun is way more fun than USPSA.

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USPSA is just way more fun!

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And of course 3 Gun is way more fun than USPSA.

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Hell yes!

Silly me, I got a new PCC and a new zombie pink Versamax just last week for 3 gun.

3 gun gets really expensive though... And involves shotguns, which are foul evil things.

USPSA, as a general rule, also has a much higher level of competition. Might vary, but in every town I've shot in, IDPA was a vastly lower level of skill, on average, and the stages would be geared for that lower skill level.

Bill Wilson was one of the founders of IDPA because he felt the action shooting sports were leaving him, and his business (building 1911s) behind.

And he was right. The world was changing and double stack magazines were becoming the norm not the exception. If you make your living selling 1911s...that's not good.

The problem I have with what he did is the self righteous attitude he and his wife and thus the whole sport seem to have that somehow they have the more pure sport.

There is a place for IDPA, and it serves a very good role as an entry level sport for action shooting, and one for folks who don't care about advancing their gear or their skills beyond basics of marksmanship and defensive tactics.

But since they really think their brand of shooting is so superior, as an experienced IPSC shooter (IPSC is just the international name for USPSA) IDPA only has one meaning... I Don't (have to) Practice Anymore. (To win.)

I haven't been following Bender's monthly drills like I would like to, but I did get out to the range recently to work on some basics.

Dunbar said:

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I haven't been following Bender's monthly drills like I would like to

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Doesn't help that I haven't been good about posting them either.

Good lord, it's already October.

I'll try to find a drill to put up next week.

bumping because I wanted to look at it and figured someone else might as well

CharlieBrown17 said:

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bumping because I wanted to look at it and figured someone else might as well

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Been busy lately, apologies to anyone who wanted a drill to shoot in the last few months. I've been shooting some, but I haven't shot a competition in at least 2 months. Won't shoot one until at least January.

Decided to run a half marathon in Dec and it has sucked up all my competition time and most of my shooting time.

On a positive note, I'm getting skinnier and faster, which can't hurt when I finally get back to competition shooting again next year.

Tough drill.

We have competed every weekend for the past 6 months, so I'll post up one.

Good stuff.

I bumped it to shoot the dot drill from the first page, took my LTC this last weekend and want to start getting more serious about pistols if I'm going to be carrying

bump

Ogre09 said:

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bump

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Let the ball drop on this thread, didn't I?

If there's any interest in a few drills this year from folks I'm sure I can find one or two interesting ones for us to try.

Just bought a pistol off cplatt (loving it). I guess I should just start at the beginning of this thread.

Certainly interested.

I think I'm one step behind the start of this thread. I know how to safely and functionally operate my handgun (load, unload, trigger discipline, point in safe direction, fire, tear down, clean, etc.), but not with any degree of precision or accuracy. The shortest pistol distance my range offers is 50 feet, and I'm doing good to hit the paper at all at that distance.

I think I need to start with some basics on grip, stance, aiming, and trigger pull. I've picked up a little just surfing Youtube, but there's some conflicting advice and obviously some more guys on there are less knowledgeable than others.

Any good resources I should look into? I think a class would be great, but might be hard to get a whole day or half day set aside for that.

There are some great videos with shooting fundamentals on YouTube. Jerry Miculek has a good one. Rob Pincus has several good ones.

Find a better range. You need to practice at closer distances. For defensive shooting, most of your practice should be in the 3-5 yard range, as that is where most defensive shootings take place.

Where are you located? I'm always happy to help an OBer get more comfortable shooting pistols.

It sounds like I need to scoot up a bit when doing the dot torture. I've been shooting it from 5-7 yds out. 31 out of 50 this past weekend. Weak hand and trying to speed up took a toll on my score.

3 yards is supposed to be the starting point, don't move back until you clear it perfect 50/50. Then move it back one yard at a time to 4, then 5.

I can clear 5 yards about 60% of the time with my .22, maybe 20% of the time with my CZ. Offhand only shooting is my biggest continual failure.

3 yards is the starting default for people who shoot enough to be interested in shooting pistol drills and challenging themselves, but if someone doesn't feel comfortable with that if they need to move it up a couple of feet I think that's okay.

Right now I'm using my CZ-75B in 9mm. What kind of .22 pistol are you training with?

Ruger 22/45 with VQ sear, hammer and trigger.

My CZ triggers are nice, but this thing is insanely good.

It's the pistol I cleared a 2.64 second run (5 shots on 5 steel targets, time starts with the buzzer and ends when the last target is hit) with in steel challenge last summer, a personal best I'm hoping to beat this summer.

I'm going to start shooting a lot more .22 in prep for steel challenge in May. Been shooting mostly rifle (my weakest) in preparation for Cola Warrior this spring.

Semi related to this thread for a couple of reasons.

I've been lazy about carrying lately. Instead of carrying something with decent capacity, I've been throwing the LCP in the pocket and calling it good.

Well, yesterday I went to a really crappy part of the next town over for work. I wasn't in any danger, but it was the kind of place I was very happy to be there at 3 pm instead of 10 pm, with a lot of people wandering around the "neighborhood" instead of at school or work. Realized just how much it would suck to depend on 7 rounds of .380 to get me out of a bad situation.

So, because I've been shooting some IDPA/USPSA with my P-09 (and plan on doing some steel challenge with it this summer), I switched it over my carry gun instead of the LCP.



20 rounds of 9mm (and another 19 in the reload) is much more comforting than 7 rounds of .380. I got lazy about carrying, and needed to fix that. Carrying the gun I'm shooting the most this year helps too. If I'm going to practice with it, might as well carry it.

Back to pistol drills/shooting, been back to dot torture at 4 yards with the 22/45 for steel challenge prep.

The other thing I've added is lots of target transition practice on a timer after one round of dot torture. 2 targets, 25 MOA dots (basically a huge black circle target on an 8 x 11 piece of paper), set at 12 yards from me, 7 yards from each other. On the beep, engage each target with one shot, twice. So timer goes Beep, shoot Target 1 once, Target 2 once, Target 1 once, Target 2 once. My goal is to accurately engage all 4 targets in under 4 seconds right now. Would like to be consistently under 3.25 seconds by the end of the summer. We will see if I hit that or not. All depends on how much range time I get. My .22 skills are a little rusty at the moment.

Last year my fastest steel challenge run with the .22 was 2.64 seconds to clear 5 targets from low ready. This year I'd love to break into the 2.5s more consistently with the .22, and hopefully break into the very high sub 4s (3.9s) consistently with the 9mm. Harder to do with the 9mm both because of recoil/time to put sights back on target and more importantly, center fire pistols in Steel Challenge draw from the belt, instead of starting at the low ready like .22s.

Like I said, it all depends on how much practice time I get. Should be able to do it, just a question of putting in the time.

How are you concealing that P-09 w the light/laser for CC? IWB?

Yep, IWB.

Untucked t shirt, a stiff belt and it's not hard to do with any full size gun.

Seeing your post reminded me that I meant to respond to an email you sent me a while ago and never got around to it. 1000 apologies, I'll dig it up and shoot you a message real quick.