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Pistol shooting thread (Drills, Techniques, Discussion)

23,196 Views | 152 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by TwoMarksHand
BenderRodriguez
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My suggestion is to practice, but not in the way you think.

The issue isn't that you're squinting vs keeping your eyes open like you think it is. The real issue is that when you're squinting, what you're doing is slowing down, taking time to find a good sight picture, and then pulling the trigger.

What you need to learn to be a good competition shooter is how far away and how fast you can make accurate hits, and adjust your shooting on the fly as you go.

Take another look at the diagram of the stage posted above, with some lovely MS Paint work added to it by me:



If I'm in the red position shooting at the left side target, the time and care I take aiming is going to be dramatically different than the time and care I take to shoot at the close target at the green dot position.

What you should do is set up some USPSA or IDPA targets at 3 yards, 7 yards, 15 yards...some distance like that and force yourself to shoot under time pressure (a timer is a great tool for this) for Zeros or Double Alphas. Do it to the point of failure at each distance. For me, a very close target takes basically zero effort and almost no sight picture to be a good hit. If there is a target at 3 yards, I'm pulling the trigger twice as fast as I can as soon as I see even a hint of the front sight post...because that's all the aiming I need to do to make the hits at that distance. The further the distance to a target, the more care I take in making sure I have good sight alignment and a good trigger press....because that's what I need to make hits at distance. I need to be standing still and get a great sight picture to hit the A zone on a target at 20 yards consistantly. At 3 yards? I can run by it, barely see the front sight and slap the trigger and I'll hit alphas.

Just because I was already playing around in Paint: We all know what a good sight picture looks like....something similar to the sight silhouette in the middle. But if I see any of the four bad sight pictures on the left and I'm aiming at a close target? I'm pulling the trigger on it. Why? because the Alpha zone on a USPSA target (and the Zero on an IDPA) is pretty darn big if its up close. You don't have to bullseye the thing...you just have to get it in the red box. That's easy on close targets, and hard on far targets.



All of the handgun competition stuff is about balancing speed and accuracy. A big thing that square, static range shooters simply don't know when they start is what ranges they're capable of making quick hits on the move, and what ranges they need to slow down and take their time. That can only be learned by experience...either at matches if you're willing to learn the slow way, or on the range on your own time if you want to get better quicker.



BenderRodriguez
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quote:
If it's anticipation, dry firing will help a lot.

Dry fire is good.

The other thing that cures anticipation quicker than anything else I've seen is snap caps. Take one, load it randomly somewhere into a magazine, shuffle that magazine with a couple others and shoot until you find it.

The sudden nose dive you do with a pistol when you hit a snap cap instead of a live round is an eye opener for most who have problems anticipating.

TwoMarksHand
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Thanks Bender. I know I need to practice more at the range. I dry fire everyday and try to be very critical of myself in order to improve.

Another question. I shoot a CZ 75b and I know your are a CZ fan as well. At the competition this weekend there were a couple of times at the last two stages that I would run it dry and need to reload. Problem was my slide quit locking back. You ever had this problem? I was shooting Winchester 115 gr factor loads if that makes a difference. I've never had this problem before.
BenderRodriguez
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Two obvious culprits:

1) check your hand position. Some people tend to ride the slide stop, and can inadvertently keep it from engaging.

2) magazine springs not up to snuff. I try to number my mags with my initials and a number: SB1, SB2, etc. helps keep anyone else from picking up your mags, intentionally or otherwise...and if you continually have issues with one mag over and over again, having them marks lets you find the offending mag to ditch or fix.
TwoMarksHand
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Thanks. I will take a look at my thumbs, but I think it may be one of my factory mags that are causing the trouble. I noticed last night that one of them rattles a bit when it has a few rounds in it. I'm going to pick up a couple more Mec-Gar anti-friction magazines anyway. I almost got in a bind last weekend because I only had two mags to run the IDPA stages.
bkag9824
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Have heard of this exercise before, how exactly does the snap cap remedy the anticipation issue? I know I anticipate shots, don't need a snap cap to tell me that.

Or are you saying to add a few snap caps throughout your mags to condition/decrease anticipation?

BenderRodriguez
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Yes, I'm saying mixing in snapcaps to a normal magazine will condition/retrain anticipation. Having a snap cap somewhere in the middle of the magazine does help remedy the situation. What happens is you shoot like normal, until you get to the snap cap. Since you were expecting a live round, you'll likely "push" against the recoil and see the gun dip noticeably. That helps retrain you to keep from pushing to fight recoil, as does dry firing.

Another thing that can help with anticipation is a good grip, period. People try to counter the recoil by pushing against it, which is impossible to do. What you need to do is set up a firm grip and stance that absorbs the recoil as much as possible. When you shoot, there should be as little movement allowed by the pistol as possible. To demonstrate this, check out these two videos:

First up is a competition shooter. Watch how little the gun moves under recoil for him:



Next is a new shooter. Watch how much the gun moves around before, during and after he shoots.



If you want to cut down on anticipation and improve accuracy, you need to be controlling the pistol like the first guy, not letting it flop around like the new shooter does.


TwoMarksHand
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The grip in that second vid is killing me.
bkag9824
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Good stuff, thanks for the reference vid.
BenderRodriguez
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Props to those who have shot the drill and posted pictures: agingcowboy, dunbar, twomarkshand and runningbombtech!

The rest of you have 12 days left in July to jump on board. I'll be posting a new drill for August.



TwoMarksHand
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Hey why don't I get props lol
BenderRodriguez
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quote:
Hey why don't I get props lol

Because when I scrolled through the thread, your picture wasn't displaying for some reason, and I was just looking for pictures of targets.

My mistake, you've been added!
TwoMarksHand
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quote:
quote:
Hey why don't I get props lol

Because when I scrolled through the thread, your picture wasn't displaying for some reason, and I was just looking for pictures of targets.

My mistake, you've been added!
Yeah, I can't for the life of me post pictures from my phone. I'm going to shoot the drill again this week sometime and post those results.

Can't wait for the next drill!
BenderRodriguez
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How many of y'all have shot timers?
TwoMarksHand
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quote:
How many of y'all have shot timers?
I wanted to get one for dry fire practice, but then I realized that there is probably an app for that. So the one I have is called "Shot Timer". The GUI is outdated, but its free and does everything I need. I haven't tried it out for actually live fire practice yet. Live fire usability is probably crap compared to a real shot timer.
bkag9824
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Consensus on Sajnog's methods?





BenderRodriguez
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New month, new drill!

Another one from Pistol-Training.com

Ball & Dummy Drill
Range: 3yd
Target: small (35 card, 3 dot)
Start position: any
Rounds fired: varies
This drill has been used for decades to help shooters overcome problems anticipating recoil and jerking the trigger. It's a staple of every instructor's diagnostic toolbox.
You will need some snap caps or dummy rounds to do this drill. Have a shooting partner load your pistol magazine or revolver cylinder with about two-thirds live ammunition and one-third dummies, randomly mixed. (alternatively, revolver shooters can just leave 1-3 chambers empty)
Using a small but close target as outlined above, aim and shoot. You should have no idea whether you're pulling the trigger on a live round or a dummy, so treat every trigger press as if it were going to fire. When you get to a dummy round, the pistol should stay perfectly still as you press the trigger. If you jerk the trigger or anticipate recoil, you'll immediately see it because the gun will move off target.
If you do jerk the gun on a dummy, stop and fire ten perfect, deliberate dry-fire shots without jerking the trigger or anticipating any recoil. Then do the Ball & Dummy Drill again.
This drill is only valid when you are shooting slowly and deliberately, working 100% on accuracy and zero on speed. As you start to shoot faster, it's easy to mistake proper recoil management for "anticipation" and make you believe you are doing something wrong when you're not.
quote:
Training with firearms is an inherently dangerous activity. Be sure to follow all safety protocols when using firearms or practicing these drills. These drills are provided for information purposes only. Use at your own risk.

Snap caps can be found at gun stores, outdoors stores, online. They're valuable to have. I know some talked last month about how they didn't have a range they could draw from the holster at, and I assume many of those ranges also don't allow rapid fire. I'll be blunt...I had to dig hard for a drill that anyone could do without doing either of those things or using a shot timer.

If you don't have a shot timer, look into investing in one. They are invaluable. You wouldn't train for a race without having a stopwatch to measure progress, and you can't really progress as a pistol shooter without a timer to measure progress either. Next month's drill will probably need a shot timer, so just a heads up a month in advance.

I know several people talked about anticipation, so hopefully this drill will help some of you out as you continue to work on your pistol shooting. I'll shoot the drill this week and post an AAR on it.

agingcowboy
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I ordered some snap caps online. I'll be giving this a try once they arrive!
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
TwoMarksHand
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Been putting off snap caps. This will give me an excuse to pick some up.
BenderRodriguez
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Anyone shot this drill yet?

If you haven't, don't feel bad. I've been busy enough with other shooting stuff that I haven't had a chance to actually get to the range and work on my own drill. I will shoot it next week and post some thoughts about it.

On a humble brag note, I had the best night of steel challenge I've had so far this year last night. Finished first in my division, and fourth overall, behind a phenomenal pistol shooter and two guys shooting red dot equipped rifles, with my iron sighted .22 pistol. Came within a second of beating one of the rifle shooters, and did beat him on one stage which was kind of cool.

I also had my fastest string of the summer: 2.64 seconds to clear 5 targets, and had another sub 3 second run, a 3 flat and several low 3 second strings last night, some of my fastest shooting this year.

Had a good time with steel challenge this summer, I'm only sorry my club doesn't shoot it year round.

TwoMarksHand
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I haven't shot in about 2 weeks. Between vacation and football starting (I coach the local little league team) there just hasn't been any time. I did, however, get the chance to collect some brass here and there, and slowly but surely my collection is growing. A couple more good trips and I should have enough to start reloading.

I was planning on getting to the range tomorrow morning, but the rain we've been getting may postpone that.
BenderRodriguez
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Well, I think August was a bust for everyone, me included. Got busy. I suspect September will be a bust as well....Dove season, football starting...this is just a busy time of year.

That being said, if anyone is interesting in shooting anything this month challenge wise, I just shot the 25 MOA All Day handgun challenge over at ar15.com.

It's 30 shots at 25 yards on three targets. Printable targets (make sure to print "actual size") are available here: link

Staple the paper to a backer, take 10 shots, take a picture, measure group, repeat two more times.

25 yards really humbles a man. I'll put up my results from trying it in the next post.

BenderRodriguez
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My first attempt with my 22/45. 25 MOA at 25 yards = ~6.545" The average of my three groups was 6.582, so just outside the 25 MOA challenge issued.

Ruger 22/45- group 1 (5.75 inches) - group 2 (7.373 inches) - group 3 (6.625 inches)



Started out with the pistol I've spent most of the summer shooting steel challenge with, a 22/45. Shooting slow at distance was a nice change of pace.

Target 1:





Target 2:





Target 3:





And the gun:



BenderRodriguez
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And I shot it with my Dan Wesson Guardian. I could definitely tell that I've been shooting a lot of rimfire in steel challenge this summer...my centerfire pistol shooting was not up to snuff.

The goal group size for this drill is 6.545". I came close with the .22.....I did not come close with my 9mm...the average of the three groups was 8.541".

Dan Wesson Guardian- group 1 (8.5 inches) - group 2 (7 inches) - group 3 (10.125 inches)

25 yards looks pretty far with a pistol:



Target 1:





Target 2:



And I took two measurements, because I wasn't sure which two were further apart. Turns out, they were about the same.





Target 3:





And the gun:



I've been shooting a **** ton of .22 in steel challenge this summer, and the results showed in my centerfire shooting. Now that I'm getting back into the swing of USPSA/IDPA and shooting more centerfire again, I should be able to improve on this before the month is over. Better quality ammo probably wouldn't hurt my results either, but this is what I had in my bag, so this is my entry for now.
Nealthedestroyer
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I'm local to BCS and would like to get into 2gun competitions similar to the ones shown on Full30.com by Ian and Karl from Forgotten Weapons. What kind of a process would it be to get something like this set up?
BenderRodriguez
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quote:
I'm local to BCS and would like to get into 2gun competitions similar to the ones shown on Full30.com by Ian and Karl from Forgotten Weapons. What kind of a process would it be to get something like this set up?

When you say get something like this set up, are you asking how you could host 2 gun competitions or how you can get started competing in them?


Nealthedestroyer
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quote:
quote:
I'm local to BCS and would like to get into 2gun competitions similar to the ones shown on Full30.com by Ian and Karl from Forgotten Weapons. What kind of a process would it be to get something like this set up?

When you say get something like this set up, are you asking how you could host 2 gun competitions or how you can get started competing in them?



Sorry, should have been more clear. I want to compete but I also want to know what would be required to get one run locally. How much management it takes, money, advertising, etc. Are there any 2gun clubs around this area?
taxpreparer
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As a true noob, I have questions about some basic terminology.


quote:
I thought I would include my daily dry fire practice regiment:


What is meant by "presentation", "step breakdown" and "grip drill?"

Thanks.
***It's your money, not theIRS! (At least for a little while longer.)
dubi
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quote:
quote:
quote:
I'm local to BCS and would like to get into 2gun competitions similar to the ones shown on Full30.com by Ian and Karl from Forgotten Weapons. What kind of a process would it be to get something like this set up?

When you say get something like this set up, are you asking how you could host 2 gun competitions or how you can get started competing in them?



Sorry, should have been more clear. I want to compete but I also want to know what would be required to get one run locally. How much management it takes, money, advertising, etc. Are there any 2gun clubs around this area?


We compete frequently and it is either 1 gun(uspsa, steels, idpa) or 3 gun.
TwoMarksHand
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quote:
As a true noob, I have questions about some basic terminology.


quote:
I thought I would include my daily dry fire practice regiment:


What is meant by "presentation", "step breakdown" and "grip drill?"

Thanks.



Presentation - grip the pistol normally, with it close to your body and extend straight out and align sight picture.


Also this guys channel is really great and I suggest to watch this whole video:


Step Breakdown - when drawing from a holster break down your movements into small steps. This way you can practice on every little motion. Here are mine:
1) Right hand grip pistol. Left hand to chest.
2) Draw pistol and establish two hand grip in your center chest.
3) Extend pistol straight out and establish sight picture.

Grip Drill - get in your solid stance with pistol in a good grip and extended straight out. Focus on your front sight. Then for one whole minute squeeze as hard as you ****ing can. Using every dam muscle in your body like your trying to squeeze the life outta your gun. Rest for two minutes. Repeat 8 times. If you do this drill every day for a couple weeks, you shouldn't have any problem keeping that front sight solid. Plus your hands will be strong as hell.




I will edit this to include videos that I found all of this from on YouTube tomorrow.
taxpreparer
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Thank you. I know I have a lot to learn.
TwoMarksHand
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Updated my previous post with videos.
taxpreparer
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I see that and appreciate yoyr doing so.
***It's your money, not theIRS! (At least for a little while longer.)
TwoMarksHand
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Bender,
Need some help. I am trying to figure out the best was to simulate multiple shots in single action while dry firing. Is there anything or any tool that you have found that will reset the trigger into single action mode after your have already pulled the trigger? Otherwise, when I practice a string of shots I have to use double action the whole time. I want to get the feel of firing a string in single action like I actually would on the range. I have a CZ 75B if that matters. I found one such device, but it was only for glocks.
BenderRodriguez
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I haven't found anything.

What I do when I want to practice single action (a lot of my guns are SAO) is incorporate another movement or motion into it so I'm not just sitting there dry firing, recocking the hammer, dry firing again.

Draw and fire on the beep from a timer.

Have pistol drawn and aimed at a secondary point, and swing pistol up, line sights up with target, fire.

Run from one spot to another, put sights on target, fire.

Start with empty pistol and slide locked back, insert magazine with snap cap, send slide forward, aquire sights, fire.

Those are specifically going to help me with my movement for USPSA/IDPA type shooting, and adds another dimension to dry fire practice.



 
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