So as a final summer fling, we're heading to surfside beach next weekend.

I'm tempted to wet a line in the surf and see if my boy and I can catch anything, but I have no idea what the basics are. I fish freshwater typically, so I'm not a complete noob, but have only fished saltwater with guides.

Can I use my freshwater gear? For this one weekend only, or will I need something heavier?

Pick up some saltwater lures at Academy? Topwaters? Soft plastics? Any recommendations?

Early morning? Late at night?

Any suggestions are appreciated!!

i used to wade fish the surfside/freeport back in high school 10+ years ago. Mostly live bait, shrimp and croaker if i could catch any, and caught my fair share of specks and sand trout with the occasional red or blacktip thrown in. none of the reds were overly large about 16-22 range so freshwater tackle should be fine. you would probably need a little larger tackle if you plan on walking out on the jetty.

Www.extremecoast.com or www.corpusfishing.com

For those that want to see surf fishing at its finest first hand keep weekends in early October open to participate in the OB Bull Red Roundup.

There are actually different types of surf fishing.

tx4guns is talking about a little bit more heavy duty stuff where we're using 80#+ leaders, 12/0+ circle hooks and an 8oz hunk of cut-bait for bull reds and sharks. This typically requires pretty specialized gear.

There's also the surfcasting you see guys doing on the East Coast where they're chunking big plus on long rods for stripers or bluefish but that's not really relevant here. It's done here too but not as much.

If you want to wade the surf and target trout, spanish mackeral, jacks, and even croakers or whiting for the kiddos it's much less demanding. Typical bass gear will work. We're talking 6'6"-7'6" medium/medium-light action rods and 12-17# line at the most. I actually tend to prefer a spinning rig in the surf because I can cast further and it's no fun trying to pick out a backlash in the waves.

My go-to rig in the surf for trout, smacks, & jacks is a 7' medium action All Star rod with a Shimano Stradic 4000 reel. I've got 20# PowerPro for the main line and typically use a 17# flourocarbon leader about 6'-7' long.

Lures are generally 1/4-1/2oz jigheads tipped with 4" pearl white Gulp Shrimp or 1/2oz Johnson spoons (both in silver or gold- be sure to use a swivel with this lure).

If it's really flat I'll use a big topwater plug.

Keep an eye on these websites for the surf conditions:
www.g-townsurf.com
www.surfhousesurfcam.com
www.netsurfing.com

If the surf is no good, go wade Christmas Bay. You can walk in from where the old Louie's Bait Shop used to be.

Oh, and early morning is best. There's a reason they call it the "dawn patrol."

If there are kiddos involved. Use fresh, dead shrimp on small 1/0 circle hooks and just toss the surf on the bottom. They'll catch croaker and whiting. They'll catch hardheads too but little kids won't care.

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My go-to rig in the surf for trout, smacks, & jacks is a 7' medium action All Star rod with a Shimano Stradic 4000 reel. I've got 20# PowerPro for the main line and typically use a 17# flourocarbon leader about 6'-7' long.

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So tell me why in the hell would someone use a smaller #test leader than the line they have spooled on their reel? More than likely your leader will get knicked before your main line will.

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My go-to rig in the surf for trout, smacks, & jacks is a 7' medium action All Star rod with a Shimano Stradic 4000 reel. I've got 20# PowerPro for the main line and typically use a 17# flourocarbon leader about 6'-7' long.

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So tell me why in the hell would someone use a smaller #test leader than the line they have spooled on their reel? More than likely your leader will get knicked before your main line will.

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That would be b/c 20# Powerpro is a braided line that has the equivalent diameter of about 8lb test line. The flourcarbon leader he is using is plenty.

tx4guns, I'm going to the big shark tourney the first weekend in Oct on North Padre...so it would be really cool if we set the Bull Red fest for a different weekend

I was thinking second weekend to avoid bow opener.

tx4guns- I want in this year!

Wear an inflatable PFD

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That would be b/c 20# Powerpro is a braided line that has the equivalent diameter of about 8lb test line. The flourcarbon leader he is using is plenty.

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I don't care if the Powerpro is the equivalent diameter of hair or dock rope. It is absolutely retarded to use leader with a smaller #test than what's spooled on your reel. #test is #test.

"Uh yeah, I've got 20# on my reel but my leader is only 17#. It was the biggest trout I ever saw, but he made one last pass by me and broke the leader my rig was made out of."

And braided line is the suck too.

Triple, you realize that the idea of a tapering leader, or a leader of lower # test is very common right? and the fact that braided line is one of, if not the most, popular lines with even semi-serious anglers on the gulf coast at the moment.


Let me try to spell this out in nice simple words for you. He's using a MUCH heavier line than is necessary, so is not concerned with a 2-3# difference in the weight of his leader to mainline. He's using the 20# because it casts so much better and is the diameter his rod was built to cast. Since 8-12# was more than sufficient, he stepped down to what, in most cases, is the largest diameter line his rod casts well and maintains the action on his lures with.


But you keep fighting the good fight, and dealing with 60yds of 8# on a reel that could hold a lot more, or a lot heavier, and keep fighting the good fight against conventional wisdom...


This is like saying "Well, I could have killed the deer with the .308, but the .50bmg was there so I HAD to use it."

[This message has been edited by Ag_of_08 (edited 8/1/2010 1:00a).]

Braided line = awesome compared to any mono or flour. No memory, strong as hell, does not kink, does not back lash hardly ever.

I always use a flour or mono leader on the end of my braided. 20# braided is probably more like a 40# mono or flour line. You can not break it off easy at all and if you get hung you are probably going to cut it before your could snap it off. 17# is fine for the leader and more than enough.

Please learn more about the subject of which you are commenting on before you make a comment in order to not make yourself look like a complete tard.

O joy, another Texags pissing contest....

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Triple, you realize that the idea of a tapering leader, or a leader of lower # test is very common right?

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No its not. Can someone explain the logic of "tapering leader" or is it just something some of yall saw on Babe Winkleman's fishing show?

Braided line is made for sewing not fishing. Had a friend who always ran braided line and when he did have the occasional crows nest, the knots it made on the spool were so tight he had to cut the whole spool of line out and start all over. And if you were fishing on a boat with him and you got tangled up with him for some reason, he pretty much had to cut his line to get things untangled. So while he was dicking around fixing fook ups we were busy catching his limit for him. I saw no advantages.

Now a correct Texas coastal fishing set up would be 7.5 ft Castaway or Falcon Coastal medium action rod, a Shimano reel spooled with 17# Stren Original and rigs built with 25# flourocarbon leader, or 30# if you're gonna be fishing around some heavy shell or obstructions.

I rarely bust my mono first, the leader is the first to go because it always get knicks and frays from fish teeth, shell, or whatever is out there. Don't dick around with cheesy leader.

Sounds like your friend should know his equipment better and he could avoid bird nests. A simple turn can eliminate those pesky things.

triple let me guess, you bottom fish only?


Lighten up(literally) a little, and your fishing will improve. There's ZERO need for a rig anywhere near that heavy, and unless you're throwing with a VERY large reel, Line that heavy casts worth piss anyway.

You'd probably **** to see the fly fishing rigs most people use, the recommended leader front from a lot of the guys I've talked to(which has caught, in my in-experienced hands, large specs and decent reds now) is 8# mono.

And see that's why you don't use the thing in situations where it will birds nest. If you're birds nesting so badly it's keeping you from using a VASTLY superior line technology, get a nice spinning rig(which is more useful than the Texas "I'm more manly than you" bait casting craze anyway) and go.

I've never dealt with falcon, but the castaways I've owned where not great rods....

Seriously man, I've landed ~25" redfish on four pound mono from the bank.......



[This message has been edited by Ag_of_08 (edited 8/1/2010 1:21p).]

12# stren original mono
20# stren leader
Ambassadeur 5500

Been fishing this way for 15 years.

triple=clueless...

Clueless? Really? I've already asked for someone to explain the logic of a tapering leader. No one has come here and defended that logic. Where are all these people claiming that they use the tapering leader method that would make that practice quite common? Find all those people and ask them to post here. Until then, STFU.

TripleFour,

I'm not buying the tapered leader thing either, but to each their own. I like 20# P-Line Flurocarbon for my leader line and 10# P-Line CXX on my Curados. It will land anything in the bay and gives plenty of capacity on the reel. Landed a 50# stingray and a 20# jack wading with that setup, so I know it will hold up to any trout or red it can hook with the drag set properly.

On the braided lines, though, you need to do your homework. Just about every serious surf fisherman I know uses a undershot of mono (30-50#), spliced to as much Power Pro braid (50# on up) as their reels will handle with 80-600 pound shock leaders on the terminal end for the toothy critters. That is pretty much the standard, so if you have a challenge to it, I don't know what to tell you.

You contribute a lot to this forum, so I'm just trying to add something so people can learn something on this thread.

Been out of pocket for the weekend but I'll chime in since others already have.

Tapering leaders is highly common, especially in flyfishing or when you're building IFGA leaders to go after line-class records. I go with a guide who's put several guys on line-class records, especially in flycasting. I was with my BiL and this guide and we had a potential record break us off at the skiff- it was probably a 25# red on a 4# tippet.

The tapering of leaders is often done to either create a leader that allows for either better action on your lure presentation or decreasing visibility. It's also common to splice in a Bimini-twist or something as a shock-leader.

I go from the 20# PowerPro to the 17# flouro for visibility reasons mainly. The 20# PP has 8# diameter so it casts really well, and I tend to fish lots of weightless stuff or very, very light weight lures on clear, shallow flats.

And in the surf, having a great drag on your reel is far more important than having heavy test line. And the drag on the Stradic is the best I've found for the money. I've caught 20#+ jacks with this rig and no trouble whatsoever.

Plus, I've found that anything heavier than 17# flouro is too stiff and heavy for just about anything I'm going to throw. Basically the PP is for casting distance, toughness, and sensitivity. The flouro is for reducing line visibility in the water, and toughness as it has far less stretch and far better abrasion resistance than mono.

I'll second what Vero said about your friend birdnesting with braid, he needs to know his gear better.

Bottom line, the rig I have works great because it allows for maximum stealth and sensitivity, and offers great versitility. My baitcasting rigs are similarly rigged with line as well.

Pardon my ignorance... but what is a leader? I just tie my hook on to the end of my line and bait up. Am I doing it wrong? Also, what does line weight have to do with casting? I think I'm running a 12# line... and I mostly do the kind of fishing at question here. If I went to a heavier line would it make casting easier?

A leader is the part of the line immediately attached to the lure. Sometimes you use one and sometimes you don't. If you're using straight 12# mono and tying off directly to the lure that's fine.

However, I switched to braided line for a number of reasons and that's highly visible in the water so I use a flouro leader (some use mono) between the main line of braid and the lure. This is because flouro is virtually invisible in the water.

And no, using a heavier line does not make casting easier. The reverse is true. That's because a thinner, lighter line has less wind resistance and casts easier.

Thanks Finn... that's kinda what I figured.

When using braid as a mainline, having a leader that is lower test is not really an issue as long as the leader is still strong enough for the application. I frequently use 65lb braid (10lb diameter) with a twenty pound leader. The castability of such a braid and it's longevity make it a winner for salt. According to TripleFours I should use a 65lb leader or more so as not to taper. I don't think so. Only downfall to braid is visibility hence the tapered, mono leader.

I know different people that use basically one or more of "all of the above", so there simply is no "best setup" and its a lot of personal preference.

I know a redfish tourney guy that uses braid and no leader whatsoever.
I know people that use braid, then a microswivel and then 12-18" flourocarbon religiously.
I know a few people that use tried and true mono, no leader.


I myself use all of the above. I tend to use mono on my spinning reels with no leader UNLESS I'm fishing in an area with a lot of smacks or fish with sharp teeth, in which case I use a floro leader. I have braided on two of my spinning setups, and it works, but with some of the baits I use, working them right is actually a little harder with braided.
My baitcast reels are about 50/50 spooled with mono or with braided. It kind of depends on the kind of fishing I do with that setup. If I'm open water with a bigger rig, I go mono, as it is sufficient from my kayaks where the forces on the line are less because the kayak moves with the fish's pull. When I'm wading or surf fishing, I tend to use braid so I can get more line on the reel and do more casting.

Braided has some nice and not so nice properties. It is harder to backlash, and usually easier to pull out a minor backlash, but if it gets knotted, game over, and it has to be cut. On the bright side, it ties to itself really well, and casts pretty well. It requires a backing or it can spin on a spool. It is visible, and sometimes that matters to fish, and sometimes it doesn't. It transmits the bite really well, and doesn't stretch, which is great for feeling bites and quick hard hooksets, but actually bad for using circle hooks and slower hooksets, where the stretch of mono really helps.

I haven't found one line, reel or rod combo that is ideal for every situation, which is probably why I own about 15 different setups.

On leaders: they have two seperate and different purposes.

1. Abrasion resistance.

2. Low visibility.

These often contradict. Florocarbon line partially offsets this, but these purposes are very different. Fly fishermen are used to dealing with tapered or ligher sized leaders, and it has transated over to other kinds of fishing. I often use a short stretch of 20 or 30lb florocarbon on the end of my braided lines to give far less line visibility for that last foot or two. The braided line may be 50lb, but has 15lb test diameter.

Also, to confuse matters, braided line has much smaller diameters per test strength than mono, so when you are talking braided line to leader, you are almost always talking a reduction in test strength for similar line diameters. 65lb braid is about the diameter of 17-20lb mono. My shark rod is loaded with a spool wrap of 30 yards of 30lb mono, then a whole 300 yard spool of 65lb braid, then a 50 yard top shot of 50lb mono, then my leader attaches to that, and it is typically 200lb high quality mono. The 65lb braid is FAR maller than the 50lb mono in diameter, but stronger. The purpose of the top shot is simply to give the line a little stretch when setting the circle hook, as the braid seems to yank the bait right out of the fish's mouth without getting a hookset.

Now, on my kingfish/Jack/Tarpon(if I'm lucky) rod, I have the spool filled with about 220 yards of 20lb mono, with either a 50 or 100lb low-vis mono leader or single strand wire 43 or 65lb. The leader size and test strength has gone up instead of down in this case because the purpose is abrasion resistance and not low visibility.

[This message has been edited by MouthBQ98 (edited 8/2/2010 10:22a).]

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I haven't found one line, reel or rod combo that is ideal for every situation, which is probably why I own about 15 different setups.

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Gospel right there.

Mouth- you also forgot the "shock absorption" utility of a leader.

Yeah, that's a term I've heard alot that think I understand the idea that is meant by it, but the term itself doesn't describe it very well. With regards to stresses to the line, the addition of a leader actually adds a weakpoint: the connection between the leader and the main line. There are some great near 100% terminal tackle knots, but the line to line knots don't match up quite as well and it is often the point of failure, so when people say "shock" leader, I've always wondered what they really meant.

Now, for long casters, they would have a heavier leader for the first 20 feet or so...something that goes from the tackle at the rod tip all the way onto the spool for a little bit, so when they start their casts, they can really whip it hard against that leader with the leader going all the way back onto the spool. Once they let the line loose, the stress on the line is less as it is just coming free off the spool, so a lighter main line is fine. I think in that application, the term shock leader is correct.

Back to OP, since a pissing match broke out - your bass tackle will work fine, but as many suggested,tie about 2 foot of leader because salt-water fish have some sharp teeth. You can sift through the braided / mono debate to determine what kind. (I personally don't like braided for surf fishing because it is so dang hard to make a decent knot with waves crashing down and I end up throwing my bait into the gulf)

As for where to fish, if you don't mind scaling down rocks, go straight out from the southern end of Beach drive (where it curves back toward the houses). There seems to be a wider second gut there. Picked up 10 keeper specks a couple of weeks ago right there.

There's some birds working the surf for shrimp right now.

A buddy of mine castnetted a shrimp in the surf that was huge yesterday.

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If you're stuck in the office in the Houston area, do yourself a favor and DO NOT, repeat DO NOT look at the surfcams right now.

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I personally don't like braided for surf fishing because it is so dang hard to make a decent knot with waves crashing down and I end up throwing my bait into the gulf.

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There's a reason why I use such a long leader. It's so I don't have to continually tie on a new one. Flouro has excellent knot strength when you tie the right knots.

And as for connecting braid to the leader I always use a uni-to-uni connection. Never had one fail me. If you tie it correctly it's got damn near 100% strength.

[This message has been edited by Finn Maccumhail (edited 8/2/2010 3:15p).]