http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/nfl/05/22/harrison-son/index.html

Wow. What an idiot.

What a surprise, another pit bull attack involving small child. I will never understand why someone wants to own that breed of dog unless it's to protect their meth lab.

Not even going to waste my time discussing this worthless breed of dogs anymore. They are ticking time bombs and unfortunately, a small kid is usually holding the bomb when it goes off. These owners need to face jail time when this stuff happens.

Pit bull bought from a roided up dog fighting lineage =/ American Staffordshire Terrier bred for generations by professional ACK conformation breeder without incident to be non aggressive amongst dogs and people, as required by AKC standards.

The problem is that one of these lineages outnumbers the other about 10 to 1 most likely. Like I said on another thread, proponents of the AST breed need to put as much distance between themselves and the low-bred pitbull as they possibly can. And that includes a halt to standing up for them everytime they maul some poor kid.

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Pit bull bought from a roided up dog fighting lineage =/ American Staffordshire Terrier bred for generations by professional ACK conformation breeder without incident to be non aggressive amongst dogs and people, as required by AKC standards.

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Train the hell out of them. Its a time bomb. Like keeping a reformed pedophile in your house to watch your kids when you are away.

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proponents of the AST breed need to put as much distance between themselves and the low-bred pitbull as they possibly can

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They do: hell, they had the breed officially renamed a while back!!!! The reputable breeders go nutz when someone slanders their dog by calling it a pit bull.

Point impossible to defeat in argument: If they bred aggression into them in 15-20 generations, they can breed it back out, and make them behave like a golden retriever. Dog genetics are highly adaptable and flexible.

Well, whats the f-ing holdup?

The human trash breeders that breed FOR aggression, and the idiot backyard lets make some puppy breeders that get the two cheapest "pit bulls" they can find from a puppy mill and let nature take its course.

There are so many of these that are out there, and too many naive people that buy a dog on a roadside, from a puppy mill, etc that don't know what they are getting and perpetuate the problem.

A reputable breeder would have thorough records and registration of both the sire and dam, including information on temperment and sociaization, and would select for good temperment in the breeding from amongst many candidates, and repeated that process for generations.

I am an ER physician

80-85% percent of dog bites that are severe that I see are pit bulls in my practice

Pit bull lovers explain that.

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The reputable breeders go nutz when someone slanders their dog by calling it a pit bull.

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In that case, all of the reputable AST breeders and proponents should stop getting their panties in a wad everytime someone says that there is no reason at all to own a pit bull as a family pet. Instead, they should point out the reasons to own a well-bred AST instead. However, the truly professional breeders that I know just can't let it go. I still have to here about how it is the owner or the environment, yada yada. When certain dogs are bred over generations for aggressive traits, regardless of breed, you don't eliminate those traits in one generational breeding. These dogs with no proof of lineage have no place as a family pet, period. And they are undeserving of anyone's sympathy - especially a reputable breeder.

I understand fully that aggression can be bred out of the AST by professional breeders, but they aren't doing themselves any favors by continuing to stand up for the obviously bad lines in the breed. Instead, they need to publicly drop the hammer on these lines and breeders. And taking offense when someone calls your dog a pit bull is not what I am talking about here.

If I was in charge of their breed club, I would start by researching and publishing a list of acceptable lines and I would publicly state that if you don't have a dog out of one of these acceptable lines, then you could potentially have an aggression problem on your hands - and you do not have an American Staffordshire Terrier.

I agree with that, in general. The problem is the public still tends to lump anything that looks like a pit in with the pits, and its hard for a relatively small number of people to work against that.

"Pit bulls" have huge ass powerful jaws...simple explanation. They also don't snap, they bite and hold/chew, and so when the panicked bite victim tries to pull free, there is tearing damage.

This is one aspect of the breed I think they should re-standardize for breeders: to tone down the power in the bite as well. There is no need for it any longer.

Mouth, you have no clue wtf you are talking about. Look, whenever your pitbull clan gets done "toning down" the powerful bite of the pitbull, please send your folks over to Africa to work on the crocodiles and hippos as well. I'm sure the African villagers will be much happier swimming in the rivers when they know the crocs will just nibble on their toes instead of eating their legs off. And body parts don't come off when the victim pulls away. It has more to do with when the dog shakes his head while holding a baby's head. You need to get with the program and see the light brotha.

WTPOS breed.



[This message has been edited by Frisco Kid (edited 5/22/2009 11:11p).]

Just for the sake of arguement, what are we defining as a pit bull?

So you don't have a problem with AmStaffs? How do we go about fulfilling/enforcing this plan?---FYI, I'm personally not particularly fond of pits, but we do have to be clear in exactly which breed/s we are talking about. The media and general citizenry can't tell the difference.
So under the eliminate the pits campaign, which of these dogs is getting eliminated?
A.

B.

C.

D.


Two weeks ago, I watched a bunch of high school juniors and seniors think this was a pit bull--


So who or by what standard is the call made?

Again, I'm not overly fond of pits, just how would this actually work?

Come on now ursus. You do this stuff for a living. This isn't that hard. Pictures of dogs isn't what this is about. Look at the hard facts, not whatever some high school kids think. Here, let me help you out....

http://www.dogsbite.org/bite-fatalities-2007.htm

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/breeds-causing-DBRFs.pdf

[This message has been edited by txaggie02 (edited 5/23/2009 12:25a).]

'02, I know those sources pretty well, read them many times. I know the stats on the matter better than most (like I said, I don't like pits myself). But if you are looking at "pits", well most folks are going to call AmStaffs, the Staffordshire, American bulldogs, dogos and an assortment of other breeds as "pits" too. Are they included? I don't like seeing the "pit bull type" description.

I know the hard numbers. And for sources, I usually prefer the CDC stats for a source Helps your arguement.

--Yeah, I deal with stuff. That's why I get stuck in the details. Look in this thread, we have two different breeds being primarily argued about. So folks obviously have a definition in mind. So, do we eliminate the American Pit Bull Terrier or expanded "pit bull type" (in your document)? That's all I am asking

[This message has been edited by ursusguy (edited 5/23/2009 12:41a).]

I guess I just don't understand what you are trying to get at. What are you trying to prove by pointing out that people might not know what a pitbull looks like? That doesn't change anything.

Yes, sometimes the dog breeds might look similar (especially the mixed breeds) and people might confuse one breed from the other. But its not those folks that are doing that statistics.

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So, do we eliminate the American Pit Bull Terrier or expanded "pit bull type" (in your document)?

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People don't breed pits with rotts because it makes their coat soft and poop smell better. They breed them together because it makes a mean mother ****er that can tear another dogs head off (or your child's head). They are just taking the aggression of the pit and mixing it with the body build of the rott to get the best fighting dog. Correct? So what are the other benefits to mixing a pit and a rott together? I'll answer that....NOTHING.

But to be fair, if you look at the stats, the majority of the attacks came from the purebred dogs. However, I would like to see an updated spreadsheet. I would think that there would be alot more mixed attacks over the past several years.

[This message has been edited by txaggie02 (edited 5/23/2009 12:55a).]

I'm simply asking if we are calling for an elimination of "pit bulls", are most of yall/us calling for an elimination of the "pit bull type" or specific bully breeds?

-My wife was nearly attacked by a pressa, most would call that a "pit" but in a strict sense, it ain't a pit.---a pit on steriods
-A mile from my house a 3 year old was nearly killed by a "pit", it was actually a dogo. Even the owner called it a pit.
-My neighbor has an American bulldog, even the idiots who own pits up the street refer to the bulldog as a "big damn pit"

Simply what I am asking is are we calling for a breed specific elimination (Lance05 was), or a general elimination of the "pit bull type"?

'02--I'm playing devils advocate more than anything

By looking at the stats, if you eliminate strictly the pit bull purebreds, you are significantly reducing the number of dog attacks each year. It's not going to solve all the problems, but will take care of a majority of them.

By the way, I am just taking a stab in the dark here, but I would think the stats from 1998 to 2008 probably would have doubled.

'02---I completely agree with you on the breeding thing. I actually agree with you on most of what you are saying.

I'm just wondering if this idea is specific, or and umbrella approach?

Edited--you answered while I was typing. It would be interesting to see the stats on the mixes. But short of a DNA test, on many of the mixes it would be a crap shoot.

[This message has been edited by ursusguy (edited 5/23/2009 1:11a).]

I definitely wouldn't go with the umbrella approach. This is a specific breed issue. I just wonder how much longer its going to go on before something is done.

I gotta hit the sack. Enjoyed the discussion. Got the niece's bday party tomorrow and I have been given the task of helping set everything up. Sounds like fun, huh?

[This message has been edited by txaggie02 (edited 5/23/2009 1:17a).]

Cool, that's all I was looking for.

Part of the perspective I am playing from is a situation I was in two weeks ago. I was in an animal shelter for a rather large city (not going to say which, but there about a coyote issue). They had a section that was dedicated to "pit bulls", I joked with the supervisor about them having 4-5 different breeds in there (now legit--probably 75% were actual APBT/or close mix). To quote the shelter supervisor "true, but for our paperwork and function they are all the same". Can't really argue with the idea, but that statement is why I was playing devil's advocate tonight.

Have fun with the party, I've got the pleasure of 6 hours of a Lamaze class.

[This message has been edited by ursusguy (edited 5/23/2009 1:26a).]

I say ban them, I wish you all could see what these things do to children.

I have no problem banning them. But the knuckleheads that like violent dogs will just switch to rotts. That's still better for the rest of us though.

most of you all are ridiculous.

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Come on now ursus. You do this stuff for a living. This isn't that hard. Pictures of dogs isn't what this is about. Look at the hard facts, not whatever some high school kids think. Here, let me help you out....

http://www.dogsbite.org/bite-fatalities-2007.htm

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/breeds-causing-DBRFs.pdf

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FACTS try BULL

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DogsBite.org is a public education website about dangerous dogs -- specifically pit bull type dogs.

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THIS ANIMAL IS BRED, RAISED, AND KEPT BY HUMANS.

if you want to ***** about something start talking about owners instead of the dog. i have met far more chiuauas that have drawn blood than pits.

not even to mention all these studpid bite sites.

NOTICE: THERE IS NO, I REPEAT NO FORMAL RECORD IN THE UNITED STATES FOR DOG BITES WITH ASSOCIATION TO BREED.

all these arguments are making an unambiguously ambiguous statement.

ps

i am pro gun, pro carry, pro pit, but i have heard of more kids killing themselves with their parents guns rather than their parents dog.

RAB

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i am pro gun, pro carry, pro pit, but i have heard of more kids killing themselves with their parents guns rather than their parents dog.

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scott, I hope you don't plan on breeding. We have enough idiots in this country already.

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This is a specific breed issue. I just wonder how much longer its going to go on before something is done.

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Hopefully never. Then we wouldn't get to listen to morons spew bulls**t constantly. This argument is so tired and pathetic and simple minded people just won't ever get it. While I'm sure half the lines are bred up to be complete s**t like their owners eliminating a breed of animal because it is "convenient" for you is a pathetic solution.