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I just dont think the state should mandate it as law. I think they should educate hunters on the benefits of only harvesting deer with a spread wider than 13". Hunter education DOES work to influence groups of people.

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Cause this has worked so well with teenage pregnancy?

I know it is not the same but close. And no i am not saying outlaw teenage pregnancy. just trying to make a point. If you ask any game warden in the state I am sure they will tell you grown men act like teenage boys when it comes to harvesting deer.

the problem is your decisions of which deer you wanna kill affect the type of deer that I see on my property.

This is a tough issue. I don't deer hunt as much as I used to but when I did we hunted a lease in an area that was not known for trophys and we had a self-imposed antler restriction. Back then, from a personal standpoint a county antler restriction would have helped us greatly as most of our neighbors did not share the same view.

The whole "muy grande" thing sort of wore thin on me and now I focus on ducks. When I do deer hunt it's really just b/c I like to have deer sausage around and like to be able to make venison chili every year. But with antler restrictions and doe restrictions it makes it pretty hard unless your willing to travel. I'm going to be honest, at this point it is pretty frustrating to be sitting in a blind on my friends property who could care less about big antlers and not be able to shoot just about all the deer I am looking at.

The antler restrictions will improve the Texas Deer herd. East Texas in a few years will be cranking out more and more trophy deer for hunters to drool over on the cover of Texas Trophy Hunters and that' all fine and good. But it's hunters like Dynastar who it hurts.

I don't really have the answer, but this debate is not going to stop anytime soon... neither side is really wrong here.

the goals of the program is not just bigger antlers.

as stated before per TPWD

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The primary goals of the experimental antler-restriction regulation were:

1. Improve the age structure of the buck herd;
2. Increase hunter opportunity; and
3. Encourage landowners and hunters to become more actively involved in better habitat management.

This regulation was designed to reduce the intense hunting pressure on bucks, particularly young bucks.

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[This message has been edited by RB1985cj7 (edited 11/18/2008 4:06p).]

Various posters have done a good job of explaining TPWD's stance on the antler restrictions, so I'm not going to reinvent the wheel. If you really have an issue with it, feel free to contact David Sierra or Gary Caulkins (district leaders in East Texas) or any of the district biologists. Go to the public hearings on the matter when counties are considering antler restrictions. If that doesn't satisfy you, hit up Mitch Lockwood in Austin, still not satisfied, start hitting up commissioners. Ultimately, TPWD operates on the mandates that come down from the Commission. I can tell you right now, there is practically a waiting list of other counties/hunters that are almost begging for antler restrictions.

Ursus, what do you think about the antler restrictions combined with the limited/brief doe season? That's what causes me the most grief. I still don't like that antler restrictions, but I could live with them a lot better if they would allow me to at least have an entire season to try and take a doe.

the whole point of the short doe season is to limit the number of does that are killed every year. remember without does you have no fawns.

If you want to shoot a doe I am sure there are enough people on the board that would be happy to let you shoot a doe off of their property. That or make friends with someone in the hill country.

This will be my last post on this thread. I was just trying to communicate that the regs don't necessarily benefit everyone. And I've got friends in the hill country. Guess you missed my earlier comment about time away from work/family. Hard to find the time to get out and hunt locally, much less travel to the hill country.

Bigfinch pretty much nailed it. The whole "monster rack" movement of deer hunting in Texas has really turned me off. Big money involved. To each his own, and I'm not suggesting that people are wrong for it. But it does tend to push some people out of deer hunting all together. I sat at my house Sunday night wishing I'd spent my time out duck hunting instead. I grew up in East Texas and have been deer hunting for 20+ years here. My grandfather and father both preached to me about hunting deer for meat. Not horns. Guess that mindset is fading fast.

nm

[This message has been edited by RB1985cj7 (edited 11/18/2008 5:44p).]

I don't like the fact that his hocks are so dark by the end of October.

In my opinion, if you are truly managing your herd, I would take him out and put him in the freezer.

If you are in an area where you are having trouble seeing bucks with 13+ inch spread you probably really need antler restrictions in place. Sorry Dyna thats not a shot at you. We don't get a lot of width on most of our deer but the average 2 1/2 yo is over 13". Perhaps starting a management plan would be a good solution to some that don't like the restrictions. By the way I am kind of neutral on them. I'm not a big fan of it overall but I certainly understand the purpose (whether or not I agree that they are the best way to achieve the goals may be another story).

Dynastar, you hit on a lot of tough issues, trust me there's a lot of discussion that goes on regarding these issues.

Remember that many of the counties that now have limited does days, prior to antler restrictions, were buck only during the general season (unless you had doe permits). This was an effort to help the meat hunters, and work on population management in RMUs with upward trending doe herds. But still deal with the general "if it's brown it's down" mentality in parts of East Texas.

Trust me, we try the education angle, but the general level of misunderstanding (or straight up ignorance) is truely astounding some times. Several times in the last few years, I have gotten to be a witness to focus groups on various topics (deer management, quail, bears, steel shot, etc.). Usually the groups are 10-20 hunters with 10 to 45 years of hunting experience, and usually very set in their ways. I would say that usually when covering a species specific biology question, maybe 50% of the participants will get the questions right (Examples--what type of plants make up the majority of the deer's diet? How long do doves typically live in the wild if not harvested? How much does a typical bobcat weigh?) I love conducting outreach efforts (heck, I did 40+ presentations to 2000+ people last year), and will continue to do so, but it isn't the end all be all.---For example a typical landowner visit may literally be something to the following---"I have about 350 acres. I'm currently running 65 head of cattle. I'd like to see more quail, turkey and bigger deer. Oh, and 250 acres are currently in "improved pasture"". Okie dokie.

Dyna, My county is going on its 5th year of resrictions. A lot of folks around here felt the same way you did the first year, but now we see ten times as many bucks as we use to and everyone is very excited about hunting season now. Also you can talk to your local TPWD biologist and get some MLD doe permits. Trust me, though some bucks like RB's slip though the cracks, it make a defference for the better. I was picking up a mgmt buck my buddy(he does euro mounts), and there were 3 bucks that were 5 yr old that all were in the mid 140's. It will pay off, and you will start seeing more deer to shoot and better deer to shoot. As herds mature, the state will start to let does be shot.

Okay I lied. My earlier post wasn't my last. Just wanted to get back on and say thanks for the responses and discussion on this issue. Just one that hits home for me. And hopefully in a few years I'll be able to come on here and say that I was wrong and that the deer herd and populations are much better off now. Plus I'm in a better mood today. The weather is awesome and it looks like I'll be able to get off early tomorrow for an evening hunt. Have to work Saturday, but Sunday is looking good right now too. Thanks again for the discussion though, always nice to hear some other points of view on things.

There's a loophole. Shoot the sumbich between the antlers in the head, and you'll have floppy horns. No way to prove he was under 13".