I had a buddy tell me they are protected. I told he was full of crap. What do you guys know about'em?

I think they are protected, but I believe you can get a permit to thin them out--maybe only in certain counties ???

If it isn't a starling, english sparrow, brownheaded cowbird (w/permit), or 1 or 2 others (water turkey is not one of them), it is protected.

where can I get a list and pictures of what is protected?

yes, we are protected. Any migratory bird is protected. The only birds that aren't protected are pigeons and starlings.

Anhingas are protected under the Federal Migratory Bird Act.

HTH

You're probably confusing a couple of birds.

Anhinga is called water turkey. You can't shoot them. They dive for fish from a perch.

Coromorants looks similar. You see them in big roosts. They eat fish by swimming underwater.

In Kansas they used to have a season on cormorants. Not sure if they still do, but I imagine they were awful tablefare. Some fish farms are allowed to kill cormorants if they have severe depradation.

Eurasian collared doves are not protect either as they are an exotic species.

[This message has been edited by AggiePam (edited 3/8/2008 5:33p).]

Anhinga =/= Coromorants

We in Texas call Coromorants water turkeys.
Both are federally protected.
As of right now there are NO permits you can obtain to kill them legally.
If you have a privately stocked pond you can legally shoot them, if they can be deemed an economic problem.
I kill every single coromorant what lands in my ponds, and have never shot one on public water; they need to change the law because they eat a ridiculous amount of fish and fry.

Best place to fish for catfish on Choke Canyon is under the cormorant roosts. Pretty tasty, they are.

We had this discussion a couple months ago on a duck hunting thread here. Comorants (water turkeys) are protected, but you can obtain a permit to shoot them on certain lakes. TPWD issues the permits in a very limited fashion.

Ask and you shall receive, some of yall need to review your regs a bit

I'll copy and paste to my hearts contents and give you the links to read at your leisure.

http://info.sos.state.tx.us/pls/pub/readtac$ext.TacPage?sl=R&app=9&p_dir=&p_rloc=&p_tloc=&p_ploc=&pg=1&p_tac=&ti=31&pt=2&ch=65&rl=901
(2) Each permit is valid only for the tract or tracts of land for which it is issued.

(3) Each permit shall be issued to a named individual who is the owner of or authorized agent for the tract of land for which the permit is issued.

(4) Each person to whom a permit is issued shall complete and submit an annual report on a form supplied by the department by no later than August 1 of each year.

The following are copy and pasted from WORD documents you can download at:
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/business/permits/land/wildlife/
"Fish farms or aquaculture facilities are not eligible for a state-issued Nuisance Double-crested Cormorant Control Permit. Aquaculture facilities may apply for a federal depredation permit from the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service Migratory Bird Office at 505-248-7882."
"Except as allowed under Parks and Wildlife Code, §43.154(d), and §43.021-§43.030, no person may attempt to take Double-crested Cormorants unless that person possesses a valid Nuisance Double-crested Cormorant Control Permit issued by the department and a valid Texas Hunting License."
"A Nuisance Double-crested Cormorant Control Permit is issued for only one tract of land. A separate permit is needed for each property owned by the same landowner if the land is non-contiguous."
"The following are the only approved methods for the take of Double-crested Cormorants under a state Nuisance Double-crested Cormorant Control Permit: firearms (shotguns must utilize non-toxic shot only), cervical dislocation and CO2 asphyxiation."
"This permit is restricted to the control of Double-crested Cormorants and IS NOT a public hunting permit."
For more information, please contact the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department at 512-389-4481.



"Conservation of our resources is the fundamental question before this nation, and that our first and greatest task is to set our house in order and begin to live within our means."--Theodore Roosevelt, 1909

And to answer the other question--
"Unprotected Birds:
The only birds not protected by any state or federal law are European starlings, English sparrows, feral rock doves (common pigeon - Columba livia) and Eurasian collared-doves; these species may be killed at any time, their nests or eggs destroyed, and their feathers may be possessed.
Yellow-headed, red-winged, rusty, or Brewer's blackbirds and all grackles, cowbirds (does not include cattle egret), crows, or magpies may be controlled without a federal or state depredation permit when found committing or about to commit depredations on ornamental or shade trees, agricultural crops, livestock, or wildlife, or when concentrated in numbers and in a manner that constitutes a health hazard or other nuisance. "
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/annual/hunt/nongame/


"Conservation of our resources is the fundamental question before this nation, and that our first and greatest task is to set our house in order and begin to live within our means."--Theodore Roosevelt, 1909

why are they protected?

What type of nusaince would they cause? I mean other than eating all you fish out of a stocked pond.

I'm more of a large mammal and general ecologist type, so I'm not inclined to come up some random bs answer. They are protected by the nature of them being a migratory bird, and I do know that at one time their population was in the dumps----subsequently, they've rebounded greatly.
I am recommending reading the following link with a grain of salt. They science is tolerable, not great. The legal explanation is pretty decent. http://www.animallaw.info/articles/dduscormorantconflict.htm It is primarily an animal rights site, but it discusses the various issues pretty well---just makes pretty standard touchy feely recommendations. If you really want hack yourself off, roam around the wedsite. Granted, I find it useful for agruing when I already know the basis for the other sides arguements---there are pretty decent explanations of various animal related laws if you dig around.

"Conservation of our resources is the fundamental question before this nation, and that our first and greatest task is to set our house in order and begin to live within our means."--Theodore Roosevelt, 1909


[This message has been edited by ursusguy (edited 3/8/2008 11:21p).]

quote:

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Eurasian collared doves are not protect either as they are an exotic species.

---

Careful with the generalities boys & girls. Collared doves may not be protected in Texas (and they aren't because I used to shoot tons of them), but in many states, Kansas included, they are part of the normal bag limit of all dove species. As such, they can only be harvested during legal dove hunting seasons by legal methods.

quote:

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Anhinga =/= Coromorants

We in Texas call Coromorants water turkeys.
Both are federally protected.
As of right now there are NO permits you can obtain to kill them legally.
If you have a privately stocked pond you can legally shoot them, if they can be deemed an economic problem.
I kill every single coromorant what lands in my ponds, and have never shot one on public water; they need to change the law because they eat a ridiculous amount of fish and fry.

---

Andy, am I reading your post properly? I don't see anything in the information ursusguy posted or the applicable TPWD regs that backs up what you are saying about killing them without a permit. Do you have some kind of a permit to allow you to kill them? Or are you really stating that you have willfully killed a federally protected migratory species multiple times? I am asking the question to give you the benefit of the doubt here, because game laws are game laws, and I don't really think it is good bull for somebody affiliated with Ducks Unlimited to brag publicly about breaking the law. Clarification of what you are saying would be greatly appreciated.

You do not have to have a permit to shoot them if they are own private property and you have stocked your ponds. I had game wardens walk up on me as I was fishing two out of my tank. They asked why I shot them and I said we stock these ponds every year, asked him if he wanted a receipt and he said no that this was fine.
/ Was in Montgomery county, the two game wardens in question were in the area to check some neighbors for baiting doves, and we had a leangthly discussion about them as pests.
// I did get a ticket for not having my hunting lisence on my person at the time.
Furthermore, my affliations with any organization either national or local has nothing to do with my personal actions. As my personal actions do reflect on these groups, I whole-heartedly believe that cormarants are more of a pest than anything and are not controled at all; I wish there were conservation standards for these as well as ducks.
--Anything else?

[This message has been edited by andyboz (edited 3/9/2008 8:02p).]

Andy - You apparently have a dumb or forgiving warden. You can't shoot cormorants without the permits. Federal law doesn't give a crap if it's private property or public property.

Yes, there is a permit available to shoot water turkeys (double crested cormorants). And YES it is required if you want to shoot them. I really am not sure where you get your information from. Your posts make me shake my head sometimes.

Andy, you lucked out on that one. As Birdman stated, the feds don't care if it is private or public. For most cases (exception being fish farms and aquacultural facilities--which requires a FEDERAL permit) USFWS has subpermitted out "management" to the state agency, TPWD. To kill one, technically you are supposed to have the permit I linked before.

"Conservation of our resources is the fundamental question before this nation, and that our first and greatest task is to set our house in order and begin to live within our means."--Theodore Roosevelt, 1909

legal or not, andy has the right idea. I don't know how "migratory" they are since they are in Texas eatng fish year round. complete uncontrolled population.

that means you can lay waste to any blackbird that shows up on newly planted ricefields. if you shoot a few and put out a few dead ones in front of you, all the birds passing by we suck right in and you can have an awesome shoot.

been doing it for years.

We have a permit to kill all the double-crested cormorants that we want to. I believe that ours is through TPWD. We are on a private lake though.

Only some of the cormarants are here year round. Some are alovaious (sp?) Well, I'm glad the game warden that ran into me had some brain cells. I will apply for my permit now. Thanks, texags.
/I'll still be shooting them without a permit until I get it.