I have a lot of opinions about time travel, as is suggested by the Q thread.

I'd prefer to have this discussion there.

Let's say that you can't physically time travel. That seems to be the truth. What about this? Could you get a glimpse into the future...even just slightly in the future? For example, just theoretically, could you get a glimpse of the last lotto ball on a live broadcast one second before it "really happens"? Anything like that?

Redstone said:

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I have a lot of opinions about time travel, as is suggested by the Q thread.

I'd prefer to have this discussion there.

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This thread is more about the physics and viability of time travel. If you have something about time travel that relates to Q, go ahead and post it in the Q thread.

Understood.

It's important to consider a "meta" issue: our materialist lens.

If we are embodied spirits, if we are woven into a reality where the Ultimate Reality is a Person, and if God relates to us via the Sacramental physical (the Apostolic, or Catholic / Orthodox, view) ...
then
The realities of another "dimension" - such as floating above the body after death and detailing conversations and objects on a roof, as has happened in many hundreds of documented cases of the once clinically dead - must be speculated about.

Which opens up a lot to think through outside of the confines of materialist physics, including inter-dimensional travel.

If anyone is looking for a good time travel movie, I recommend Primer. The timelines are so twisted you will have to take notes while watching it.

TexAgs91 said:

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If anyone is looking for a good time travel movie, I recommend Primer. The timelines are so twisted you will have to take notes while watching it.

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Thanks for the suggestion.

I had intended to mention that the quote below made me think of the movie The Prestige. It has a Tesla like character.

Quote:

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Tesla was the Serbian god of Lightning. He re-invented the way people view electricity. His inventions are legendary. He caused a man made lightening storm. He created an earthquake in NYC. He supplied Colorado Springs with wireless electricity in the 1890s. At the same time as cattle drives, he had widescale production of a technology we still don't have today.

He invented 3 phase electronics to get a raise and Edison fired him and stole the invention. He has similar stories. Similar stories of getting screwed over by Westinghouse and J P Morgan. Eventually, he gave up on dealing with industrialist and became a hermit. That was around 1906. He spent the next 40 years in isolation working on redefining the scientific understanding of gravity, time space continuum, relativity, and magnetism.

Upon his death, his notes were seized by J Edgar Hoover, but since Hoover wasn't a genius electrical engineer he needed someone to review and translate them. So Hoover got an MIT professor specializing in High Voltage applications to study Tesla's notes. That professor was John Trump.

A few years later, John Trump and Robert Van de Graaff (of generator fame) formed the High Voltage Engineering Coorporation. John Trump passed away in 1985. Donald John Trump has often cited that he was close with his namesake uncle.

I'm skeptical of this time travel talk, but if anyone could have discovered time travel, Telsa is a leading candidate. If Telsa discovered it, John Trump would have learned about it. If I was John Trump and I would be very careful what information I would have given it to J Edgar Hoover, but I may not have wanted those secrets erased from history either. It's not far fetched that at the end of his life, he may have divulged some secrets to a close relative.

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Redstone, I enjoy your posts but can't fathom what you mean by the phrase, "where the Ultimate Reality is a Person." Could you amplify just a bit, or refer us to reading material that could clarify this concept?
Thanks

Gospel of St. John, Prologue (1:1 - 18) "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be."

When St. John preached to the Greeks - a mission following what I believed was a failed mission of St. Paul - he converted so many because he "completed" their understanding of creation. The Logos - order, reason, speech and understanding - was not the earth, or the wind, or fire....or a god with foibles like a person....it was a Divine Person, an Incarnate.

This was revolutionary in the best possible sense - big explanatory power.

This Absolute is the source of all matter, so seen and unseen nature is theophany. So logic, reason, and order are not abstract concepts but communion with Source. and from FIrst Cause Source ALL have divine logoi within them. All creation, including demons and evils that rejected Him, testify by their rebellion to Logos, which is ever-present, moving through all the world at all times.

Redstone said:

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Understood.

It's important to consider a "meta" issue: our materialist lens.

If we are embodied spirits, if we are woven into a reality where the Ultimate Reality is a Person, and if God relates to us via the Sacramental physical (the Apostolic, or Catholic / Orthodox, view) ...
then
The realities of another "dimension" - such as floating above the body after death and detailing conversations and objects on a roof, as has happened in many hundreds of documented cases of the once clinically dead - must be speculated about.

Which opens up a lot to think through outside of the confines of materialist physics, including inter-dimensional travel.

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So let's get to specifics. What is the metaphysical method to traveling through time? Can we test this method?

The idea would be that time is a creation by a Being outside of time, and that a spirit is not of time but can enter it. "Travel," therefore, by a disembodied spirit is intention (assuming allowance by the Being).

Second, regarding interstellar travel
Is it possible alien intelligence can generate a gravitational field, and then use that field to distort space / time? By "bringing" destination to source, bypassing linear understanding?

I don't know. But our understanding of physics underwent a radical overhaul about a century ago, didn't it?

This time travel story makes my brain hurt:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_You_Zombies

CrottyKid said:

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This is some interesting and crazy sounding stuff!
Could we learn to "remember" the future? Could we take drugs that would open the ability to remember the future? This sounds like a movie script.

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Replace drugs with language...the director is working on Dune now.

A second way in which we know the materialist view of life is false.

How many groups of people - in both controlled settings and not - have taken psychedelics, and then come down to describe the same "trip," "creatures," ect. ? The same objective situation, as viewed from their subjective, limited experience?

A lot of groups.

Redstone said:

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The idea would be that time is a creation by a Being outside of time, and that a spirit is not of time but can enter it. "Travel," therefore, by a disembodied spirit is intention (assuming allowance by the Being).

Second, regarding interstellar travel
Is it possible alien intelligence can generate a gravitational field, and then use that field to distort space / time? By "bringing" destination to source, bypassing linear understanding?

I don't know. But our understanding of physics underwent a radical overhaul about a century ago, didn't it?

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Physics did undergo a radical overhaul a century ago. It happened because classical physics failed to account for observed discrepancies. Then yes, there were physists that started to think up some ideas and say "If A then that implies B" type things. The difference between what they did and what you are proposing is that their ideas resolved the discrepancies that were seen before. Where do you see that modern physics is failing? And when they said "If A then B" they (or others) actually verified if 'A' was true.

There seems to be the feeling that physics periodically undergoes radical changes and that each of these changes are equivalent. That is not true. Newton and others around his time radically changed physics. Then Einstein and Heisenberg made modifications to classical physics that modernized it. The degree to which modern physics has been used and tested far exceeds the testing that classical physics went through.

We know that we don't have the final answer yet because we've got two different theories. But in their domains, the two theories are extremely successful. They aren't making bad predictions like the ultraviolet catastrophe or predicting that all atoms in the universe should collapse. So any new physics should fund a way to merge relativity and QM or propose a new theory that can encompass both.

With the thoroughness that relativity and quantum mechanics have been tested, the bar for the next revolution in physics is very high. It's going to take more than just ideas. They have to make new predictions and pass tests beyond what modern physics is capable of.

I agree.

I was thinking specifically of Bob Lazar's claims (skip the doc, check out the Rogan podcast).

We may have the evidence for such a shift, although obviously there are a lot of liars and disinfo.

Redstone said:

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The idea would be that time is a creation by a Being outside of time, and that a spirit is not of time but can enter it. "Travel," therefore, by a disembodied spirit is intention (assuming allowance by the Being).

Second, regarding interstellar travel
Is it possible alien intelligence can generate a gravitational field, and then use that field to distort space / time? By "bringing" destination to source, bypassing linear understanding?

I don't know. But our understanding of physics underwent a radical overhaul about a century ago, didn't it?

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You're describing a wormhole, which Einstein theorized on as part of General Relativity (and is a favorite of Sci-Fi authors). As I recall from my physics classes in college (it's been a while, so forgive me if I'm wrong), its creation would require matter with negative density which currently only exists on the theoretical side of physics.

Silky Johnston said:

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I am a certified moron, but if time travel were possible, we would have already met or have recorded history of said time traveler.

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You assume the traveler would be in a form we can recognize or communicate with

Quad Dog said:

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I just traveled forward in time at the rate of 1 second per second reading this post and still have no idea what the point was.

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I know this is joking, however, this statement is what makes me question the plausibility of time travel.

First, it ain't possible! That is scientific talk!

However, if it were...

All time progresses at the same rate. It is not possible to make time go faster. The speed of time is constant. Time will always move at the same rate. Therefore, the quote above, "I just traveled forward in time at the rate of 1 second per second...," is correct and always will be.

Now, if time in 1961 moved at the same rate as time in 2019 then a timeline is not necessarily a line but a dot moving forward at the same rate. All of time is in this dot. That is confusing so try this...

Here is timeline

A__________________B_______________________C__________________D_______________E

Time moves forward at the same rate at point A, B, C, D, and E. Therefore, if time moves the same then a timeline can be looked at down the timeline with the entire line moving forward. Think of it line a marching band. If I stood at the 50 yard line and they walked by, I could see A, B, C, D, and E. However, they all move at the same speed. So, if I stand at the goal line and look at the same group moving forward, I would only see one person, however, there are multiple people moving. Now take that same group and move forward in time. This means the timeline move laterally from one sideline to the other on the football field. So the right hash is a point in existence and the left hash is another point in existence. Notice that I used the word existence instead of time.

So the correct term is not, "time travel," but, can we jump to another point in existence?

Okay, if you just read all that, then note that I am making a bunch of stuff up based off of a book written by Michael Crichton years ago.

Could you say that time travel into the future, as it's conceived thematically anyway, is more than theoretically possible but actually technically confirmed? It's not significant enough to matter, but at least from a mathematical standpoint, would you say a person living on the ISS for a year, and then returning back to Earth, is actually returning to an Earth that is actually older, if only technically.

For example, if you have two people born in the same hospital to the nanosecond, and one of them goes on to become an astronaut and live on the ISS for a year, then return home, isn't it true that the one who stayed on earth would be older by a couple of milliseconds compared to the person who was in space? So in a way, that person "travelled through time" from their perspective, because they arrived to find things further in the future than they would otherwise expect if based only on their perception alone.

So travelling forward is not only possible; it is factual.

Also, can you take that to its logical absurdity and say that everyone is travelling forward through time constantly? The person walking, relative to the person sitting, relative to the person on the train, in the jet liner, etc are all experiencing some so-small-as-to-be-no-observable-but-nevertheless-present time dilation compared to a stationary observer, all at different intervals? Even if it's one billionth of one billionth of a second, theoretically, it's happening, correct?

Time travel may or may not be theoretically possible, but you still need a vehicle and other means. In 2000 BC, for example, you could get from the DFW Airport area to the Washington National airport area in the 3 hours you could get there today provided you had a commercial jet, runways, pilots, jet fuel, ATC, TSA, etc. Obviously, the vehicle and infrastructure didn't exist 4K years ago to fly but there wasn't anything otherwise physically preventing it. In fact, it would have been easier as the plane would have been less crowded!

So the question is: is time travel only an issue related to limits in our current knowledge or is it truly impossible? How will we ever know for sure?

MW03 said:

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Could you say that time travel into the future, as it's conceived thematically anyway, is more than theoretically possible but actually technically confirmed? It's not significant enough to matter, but at least from a mathematical standpoint, would you say a person living on the ISS for a year, and then returning back to Earth, is actually returning to an Earth that is actually older, if only technically.

For example, if you have two people born in the same hospital to the nanosecond, and one of them goes on to become an astronaut and live on the ISS for a year, then return home, isn't it true that the one who stayed on earth would be older by a couple of milliseconds compared to the person who was in space? So in a way, that person "travelled through time" from their perspective, because they arrived to find things further in the future than they would otherwise expect if based only on their perception alone.

So travelling forward is not only possible; it is factual.

Also, can you take that to its logical absurdity and say that everyone is travelling forward through time constantly? The person walking, relative to the person sitting, relative to the person on the train, in the jet liner, etc are all experiencing some so-small-as-to-be-no-observable-but-nevertheless-present time dilation compared to a stationary observer, all at different intervals? Even if it's one billionth of one billionth of a second, theoretically, it's happening, correct?

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This has been proven: https://www.wired.com/2014/11/time-dilation/

Keep in mind it's very small and would take a lot of time to reach any statistically significant difference. Tangentially related, NASA did a study between a pair of twins in this regard: https://www.nasa.gov/feature/nasa-s-twins-study-results-published-in-science

lb3 said:

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I'm partial to the theory that we're living in a sim.

Schrodinger's cat is just like in a video game that doesn't render distant plants or foliage until you approach. Due to limits of the system running our sim the really small stuff in our universe doesn't get rendered until we decide to take a peek.

Planck time and distance are likewise just the step intervals or distances calculated during each clock cycle in the sim.

As for time travel, this theory would make time travel both trivially simple for the sim's creator to implement but impossible for those of us living in it to create because we will never be able to assemble enough memory (data storage) to recreate the entire sim universe within our existing sim.

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Are you a fan of loop quantum gravity?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loop_quantum_gravity

One consequence of this theory is discrete (quantized time). So much like Planck's constant for space there is a minimum time span. So it is all starting to sound a lot like we are just part of a big Game of Life simulation. The question is how to test this theory.

The best "test" of the unusual is pattern recognition across time and environment.

The two patterns I mentioned are observable in the past and the present and have a high probability of existence for the future due to multiple occurrences every year, across time or environment.

Then, what characteristics does a non-materialism reality of life possess? "Inter-dimensional" / ""vibrations" make sense to me, following the subjective understandings of trustworthy Christian mystics, from my favorite Bl. Anne Catherine Emmerich to the recently departed Fr. Gabrielle Amorth, chief exorcist for Rome, to author of When Ghosts Speak, Mary Ann Winkowski.

To me this line of thinking has the best explanatory power,

caleblyn said:

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All time progresses at the same rate. It is not possible to make time go faster. The speed of time is constant. Time will always move at the same rate. Therefore, the quote above, "I just traveled forward in time at the rate of 1 second per second...," is correct and always will be.

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That is not correct. The closer you are to a gravitational source, the slower time goes. GPS satellites compensate for this. If they compensated for this according to general relativity, and it were not true, then GPS positioning would be off by as much as 11km.

A) I thought quantum communication was proven possible - by measuring the spin, the spin could be flipped on the remote entangled particle. I think UT was working on this.

I admit that research is ChiCom so lots of BS is to be expected, but they also have a strong commitment to global conquest right now, and this would tie into that.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/china-shatters-ldquo-spooky-action-at-a-distance-rdquo-record-preps-for-quantum-internet/

B) Time travel, as in getting to go see dinosaurs etc isn't happening. I suppose a faster than light traveler could try to see reflections from long enough ago.

C) Predicting lotto balls is the same as meteorology. Same math, different scale, but not "seeing" the future.

Going into the future seems difficult but not impossible because it's just a matter of leaving time/space, it reversing entropy.

Because this is the nerdery not the metaphysics?

I'm Christian, and science, especially biochem, has only reinforced my faith, but I don't get how faith would be involved with a discussion of physics

Because at the smallest observable data point, we observe metaphysics. Once I can get to my home office bookshelf I'll detail why I make this statement.

Bradley.Kohr.II said:

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A) I thought quantum communication was proven possible - by measuring the spin, the spin could be flipped on the remote entangled particle. I think UT was working on this.

I admit that research is ChiCom so lots of BS is to be expected, but they also have a strong commitment to global conquest right now, and this would tie into that.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/china-shatters-ldquo-spooky-action-at-a-distance-rdquo-record-preps-for-quantum-internet/

B) Time travel, as in getting to go see dinosaurs etc isn't happening. I suppose a faster than light traveler could try to see reflections from long enough ago.

C) Predicting lotto balls is the same as meteorology. Same math, different scale, but not "seeing" the future.

Going into the future seems difficult but not impossible because it's just a matter of leaving time/space, it reversing entropy.

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I think you can measure the spin and instantly know what the other measurement will be, but that doesn't help you because when you measure, it could be anything in the range of possibilities....