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if manziel was given the opportunities tannehill got...
sadly he won't.

so who knows.

he may need to figure it out in the next 3 games.

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Tannehill was better developed coming out of college than Manziel. Sumlin could run circles around Sherman when it comes to recruiting high profile flashy players, but Sherman can find the offensive gems and develop them into pro prospects way better than Sumlin can ever imagine.

A lot of Cleveland players played poorly today. It doesn't mean Johnny didn't play like crap, either. He did. He didn't make smart decisions. His footwork was off, even when he had time to throw. That contributed to his accuracy being off, even when he had time to throw.

Maybe some of that boils down to excitement around the occasion, but man, he didn't look good.

Johnny didnt have a good game. His supporting cast made his job 10x harder. False starts, dropped passes, O-line pass protect, no run game. Nothing that happened today suggests yay or nay on Johnny's prospect or future success in the NFL.

10/18...80...0....2

Previous worst for browns:
18/30...192...0...2
Next worst (against bengals..in a win 24-3)

15/23...198...0...0

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Johnny didnt have a good game. His supporting cast made his job 10x harder. False starts, dropped passes, O-line pass protect, no run game. Nothing that happened today suggests yay or nay on Johnny's prospect or future success in the NFL.

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The Browns' D jump started the Bengals first drive twice with penalties - eventually a TD. It snowballed - 250+ yards rushing for the Bengals

DL
LBs
OL
Coaches
Johnny

all stunk yesterday. CLE should have lost eleventy billion to nothing

I'm going to wait to see what Jon Gruden has to say.

JFF QBR

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I'm going to wait to see what Jon Gruden has to say.

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I don't need Jon Gruden to tell me Manziel played poorly:
All that hype, all that hope, and Johnny Manziel was no better than the other 20 guys the Cleveland Browns have given the ball to since 1999. Instead of providing the Browns a spark and reviving their playoff hopes, he was overmatched and underwhelming in a 30-0 blowout by the Cincinnati Bengals.Three of Manziel's first four drives were three-and-out. The other ended in an interception telegraphed so badly everyone in the stadium knew it was coming. Only once did Cleveland cross midfield and it ended with Manziel's second pick in the end zone.

They didn't "quit" but they sure gave it a half hearted attempt. And this is on the coaches too; they should have put Manziel in at least two weeks ago. All in all, Manziel should just put this game in his tear view mirror and move on.

Everyone on the Browns team, with the exception of the FG kicker (who never made an appearance) played badly. The defense was atrocious. Cincy's first drive ate up over half of the first quarter while the O-line had their way with the defense. Unfortunately this pattern continued throughout most of the game.

The offense looked terrible and out of synch all day. Johnny was awful. Bad decisions, bad mechanics bad throws. FYI, high throws on the short to intermediate passes happens a lot with short QB's, so he's going to have to figure that out or he will have a very short career (no pun intended).

The o-line play was awful also. If they put in a different or limited offense for this game they need to scrap it. Everyone looked confused. Play the regular offense.

Johnny wasn't why they lost (Hoyer would likely have done just as poorly) but he was bad, as was the team around him. Seemingly no one stepped up to help the team in a big game with a rookie starter at QB.

A couple of things contributed to his debut.

Still hasn't grasped playbook therefore ran very little of the offense compared to what they normally do.

Bad mechanics. One int he threw off his back foot, the other int he threw it way late and allowed DB to close on the ball.

Lastly he was pressing trying to do much. The game will slow down and he will need to figure what he can and can't do.

One person missing from this thread who I know is lurking, Mr. Bond. Would like to hear your opinion

22 years old making his 1st NFL start after playing 2 years of college football. Yeah, this player had a tough time yesterday. I watched, I saw.

What I cannot understand is the pack mentality criticizing Manziel's play yesterday and bashing this individual...bewildering... Then again, it is "pack mentality."

JFF played badly yesterday. As did the rest of the Browns.

His stats were 10-18 (55.6%) 80 yd 0 TD 2 INT 5 rush/13 yds 3 sacks

That's pretty bad

However, what if he'd had stats like this:

14-24 (58.3%) 117 yd 0 TD 1 INT 2 rush/3 yds 2 sacks

I think we'd all agree those were pretty crappy stats, too.

However, the QB that had the second stat line won 30-0 yesterday...

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Johnny needs some help, like:

1. Some maturity and needs to quit making himself a target...stop the money thing.
2. Protect the ball. Don't make bad decisions throwing the ball.
3. Study his butt off, just like other QBs. All successful QBs spend their time learning how to be an NFL QB.

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I'd go the other way with this. Double down on the money thing.
I want fingers rubbing together after every completed pass. That's right Defense, I'm getting paid.

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if manziel was given the opportunities tannehill got...
sadly he won't.

so who knows.

he may need to figure it out in the next 3 games.

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Tannehill was better developed coming out of college than Manziel. Sumlin could run circles around Sherman when it comes to recruiting high profile flashy players, but Sherman can find the offensive gems and develop them into pro prospects way better than Sumlin can ever imagine.

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ok, i believe the japan part.

disagree.

and you do know sherman recruited and signed manziel, right?

The Browns are getting absolutely ripped in the public the last couple days.

First by HOFer Bernie Kosar then by all-time historic bust Tim Couch. Regardless, the organization is being publicly ridiculed yet again.

I really thought Cleveland was turning a corner and changing things around. With Johnny, Tate, Gordon, and that DEF I thought they were setup for success. Now, I don't think Johnny (or any player for that matter) can get out of there fast enough.

And I thought being a Texans and Aggie fan was brutal. Could you imagine being a Browns fan?

Didn't Shanahan almost get RG111 killed ?

RGIII is his own worse enemy

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A couple of things contributed to his debut.

Still hasn't grasped playbook therefore ran very little of the offense compared to what they normally do.

Bad mechanics. One int he threw off his back foot, the other int he threw it way late and allowed DB to close on the ball.

Lastly he was pressing trying to do much. The game will slow down and he will need to figure what he can and can't do.

One person missing from this thread who I know is lurking, Mr. Bond. Would like to hear your opinion

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Lmao. Honestly I just clicked on this today. I'll give my opinion later today

I've been hitting refresh since 8:18am, where are you Mr. Bond!?

Lmaooooo. Man Thursday night is my softball league. I apologize, been drinking since 5. I'll either get it tonight or tomorrow morning

Good Deal.

the first problem -- this is the NFL -- not college -- take the ball when you win the toss. C'mon Pettine.

second...Kyle Shanahan is a quarterback-killer. The opposite of a coach-killer. He has the RG3-Cousins-Redskins debacle on his resume. It's there forever. And he's making the same mistakes again. Coaching rule #1...you fit your scheme, etc.., to the talent on the roster -- not the other way around.

third...if the QB can't learn the playbook after 7 months...could the playbook be too complicated? This is football. Not law school

Nearly 70% of the time NFL coaches defer. Not sure what your college comment means.
And the "this isn't laws school" comment is just excuse making.

Manziel played horribly. He held on to the ball too long and made some very dumb decisions. He looked like a guy starting his first game. And there is no way to try to project his future based on one game

I think he will eventually get it. Too talented not to.

Didn't RG III have his best year under Kyle?

What is wrong with Robert has to do with Robert not coaching.

So Vince young can win rookie of the year

But a complicated playbook is necessary

So being the "next VY" is the goal now?

The Browns playbook is too complicated for my uneducated tastes. Didn't it come out in the offseason that some of the plays have something like 16 words in them? That just screams getting complicated for the sake of appearing sophisticated to me.

That being said, two other things. First is that, it doesn't matter how complicated the playbook is, if you're a QB in that system, it's your job to know the thing forward and backward. We know Johnny is smart enough to do it. But the second thing is that I don't really know that they pared it down last week. I definitely saw some conservative playcalling, but I saw them try a few different things. It's just that none of them worked for several different reasons. Johnny played poorly all around, receivers dropped balls, their offensive line was terrible, lots of penalties, terrible playcalling.

I really hope Shanahan's not back next year for Johnny's sake.

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A couple of things contributed to his debut.

Still hasn't grasped playbook therefore ran very little of the offense compared to what they normally do.

Bad mechanics. One int he threw off his back foot, the other int he threw it way late and allowed DB to close on the ball.

Lastly he was pressing trying to do much. The game will slow down and he will need to figure what he can and can't do.

One person missing from this thread who I know is lurking, Mr. Bond. Would like to hear your opinion

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Lmao. Honestly I just clicked on this today. I'll give my opinion later today

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Bond's either holding out until Sunday night and hoping for a better game in order to avoid a little crow or completely conflicted on which of the 3 standard not Johnny's fault excuses to use:

a. system sucks
b. O-line sucks
c. WR sucks
d. all of the above.

Actually it's nothing to do with waiting. Friday morning turned into a texags meltdown so that took up most of my time. I started drinking heavily around 5 PM and today been Christmas shopping with a hangover. I'll see if I can express my views Tonight. I assure you I (like most) will be critical of Johnny but also fair.

Ok, Here we go my initial thoughts and review of Manziels first start

Johnny in no way shape or form looked mentally prepared for the speed and pace of the nfl game. From the get go his mechanics went completely out the window. Throwing off his back foot, never setting his feet, not going through progressions etc. Imo this is a reflection on not only johnny but also the coaching the staff. Preparation is on the player and the coach. I don't think any of us truly believed Johnny would come out in his first start and set the world on fire, because honestly how often has any rookie qb done that? But I for one definitely didn't expect it to be that bad. It was kind of a murhpys law type of day, whatever could go wrong for Cleveland went wrong. Their Defense who had actually been playing quite well had one of their worst performances of the season, surrendering over 6 yards per carry. The offensive line was absolutely man handled all day by a very physical Cincinnati front 7. WR dropped passes, didnt come back from their routes to help a qb in stress etc. Now am I stating these facts as excuses for Manziels dreadful day? Absolutely not. They were just factors that certainly didnt help any shortcomings the young rookie was having in his first start.

My biggest issue in all of this (which some on here, BMX being one will disagree) is the game plan Kyle Shanahan has for Manziel. I don't understand it and I certainly dont agree with it. Manziel has NEVER EVER been a zone read qb. Johnny isnt a running qb, hes a qb who is capable of extending plays when they break down, Johnny isnt a RG3 type athlete, nor does he have Mike Vick speed. We have always known this. Yet again Shanahan is calling up designed qb sweeps and run plays, did he not learn his lessons from getting Griffin murdered? Play action doesnt work well either when no one respects your teams over all running game, yet lets continue to call it and have Johnny get murdered before he can finish the play action. I believe today we saw flashes of exactly what johnny can be in this league. When he had time to sit in the pocket and set his feet he threw some fantastic balls (some dropped but thats another issue)

Johnny has a lot of maturation to do in order to get where he needs to be. Those giving up on him at this point is simply a ridiculous decision. The kid has a total of 6 quarters underneath his belt, lets give him a full offseason with #1 reps, a chance for the browns to be HIS team for a season and see where he goes. Far too premature to cast him as a bust.





Im sure this was a tl;dr for most of you but these are my late afternoon Sunday thoughts on Johnny Manziel

Solid post.


To be clear, I don't think they should use him in zone read as primary part of offense the way 49ers used Kaepernick a few years back. I think they should run a couple of times a game to keep defense honest. Run 5 yards & slide.

The only part of Shanahan/Kubiak offense I like is the amount of wide open bootlegs it provides.

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So being the "next VY" is the goal now?

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How does that even make sense?

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Ok, Here we go my initial thoughts and review of Manziels first start

Johnny in no way shape or form looked mentally prepared for the speed and pace of the nfl game. From the get go his mechanics went completely out the window. Throwing off his back foot, never setting his feet, not going through progressions etc. Imo this is a reflection on not only johnny but also the coaching the staff. Preparation is on the player and the coach. I don't think any of us truly believed Johnny would come out in his first start and set the world on fire, because honestly how often has any rookie qb done that? But I for one definitely didn't expect it to be that bad. It was kind of a murhpys law type of day, whatever could go wrong for Cleveland went wrong. Their Defense who had actually been playing quite well had one of their worst performances of the season, surrendering over 6 yards per carry. The offensive line was absolutely man handled all day by a very physical Cincinnati front 7. WR dropped passes, didnt come back from their routes to help a qb in stress etc. Now am I stating these facts as excuses for Manziels dreadful day? Absolutely not. They were just factors that certainly didnt help any shortcomings the young rookie was having in his first start.

My biggest issue in all of this (which some on here, BMX being one will disagree) is the game plan Kyle Shanahan has for Manziel. I don't understand it and I certainly dont agree with it. Manziel has NEVER EVER been a zone read qb. Johnny isnt a running qb, hes a qb who is capable of extending plays when they break down, Johnny isnt a RG3 type athlete, nor does he have Mike Vick speed. We have always known this. Yet again Shanahan is calling up designed qb sweeps and run plays, did he not learn his lessons from getting Griffin murdered? Play action doesnt work well either when no one respects your teams over all running game, yet lets continue to call it and have Johnny get murdered before he can finish the play action. I believe today we saw flashes of exactly what johnny can be in this league. When he had time to sit in the pocket and set his feet he threw some fantastic balls (some dropped but thats another issue)

Johnny has a lot of maturation to do in order to get where he needs to be. Those giving up on him at this point is simply a ridiculous decision. The kid has a total of 6 quarters underneath his belt, lets give him a full offseason with #1 reps, a chance for the browns to be HIS team for a season and see where he goes. Far too premature to cast him as a bust.





Im sure this was a tl;dr for most of you but these are my late afternoon Sunday thoughts on Johnny Manziel

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There was a story that he was completing only about 40% of his passes in practice the week before his start. My guess is he hasn't put in the work.

I'm not saying practice doesn't matter but I saw today that when he was able to throw from the pocket (meaning the play was designed for him to) he made the throws he was supposed to make. Obviously I can't see practice but Johnny has the ability imo