I don't care how it affects Trump or US politics so much as how America comes out of the results of it.

What is the best way to bring it to an end that results in the best outcome for the USA given the situation?
Stick with the blockade until they negotiate better terms?
Blow up their oil terminals to cut off their redevelopment revenue then leave the region?
Just up and walk away and let them take over the strait and till their way back to resuming their missile and nuclear programs?
Try to negotiate a deal both sides will probably break?
Bomb the crap out of everything we can for a few weeks more and then walk away?
Give them favorable terms and just deal with the results and the loss of global stature and the costs of that long term as the necessary price to pay?

Lots of people want the conflict over. Not many people have a workable idea for how we can do that thay doesn't itself have many risks or heavy ongoing costs.

What results do we want? Cheaper oil and more supply? How do we achieve that given the possible courses of action? Do we care if Iran re-arms and is even more hostile towards America in the future?

HollywoodBQ said:

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Really makes you wonder how many of the end state objective questions were asked before we rushed to start dropping bombs.

I thought Trump was going to be different but this looks like his version of Bush invading Iraq.

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don't forget how much he berated Bush for that.

Though I doubt he ever actually cared. He was just upset that bush didn't endorse him.

RogerFurlong said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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What can we even say we've accomplished to this point? Strategically, not tactically.

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It's tough to tell. It's like taking out Hitler before world war 2. No one would have cared, because they don't know what would happen if he was alive. Trump may have prevented Iran from launching a Nuke and ending the world, or simply becoming North Korea part 2.

He knew he was going to lose mid terms by attacking Iran, and did it anyways. Was it Israel or did he have some intelligence he can't release and we'll find out in 50 years that he really saved us. There's a reason we elect leaders and not just direct democracy.

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Launching a nuke, or even a few nukes, would not end the world. It would likely be bad for Israel though.

BQ78 said:

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We've wrecked their military to the point any semi-competent force could move in and take over. The problem is none of their neighbors are semi-competent and/or motivated to do that.

Hell, even we aren't motivated to win it.

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Or maybe everyone knows to never get involved in a land war in Asia.

one safe place said:

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Launching a nuke, or even a few nukes, would not end the world. It would likely be bad for Israel though.

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Luckily we won't find out anytime soon.

Jeeper79 said:

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Phatbob said:

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We have barely done anything kinetic for months. We are playing the attrition game at this point and we have already done the heavy lifting. We obviously don't have the stomach to do what is required to win this outright militarily with boots on the ground, so the only way we can win is to stay the course and hope they bleed out, and the only way to lose is to stop now.

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How can we say we win or lose if the president can't even tell us what the goal is. Like, a clear goal and what we're doing is getting us closer to it.

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1. There were several goals as you would expect to be required to go to war. First of which is to remove immediate threat. Obviously we have achieved that.

2. The next goal is to solve Iran permanently. That is not an easy goal and if it were straightforward, it would have been accomplished already by previous administrations. It's not like they haven't tried, and there is a reason the can was constantly kicked down the road.

Is number 2 still possible? It is, and if we have patience, it will happen. If it does, we will have been able to solve one of the biggest geopolitical problems of the last 50 years without boots on the ground and with fewer American deaths than the average year of accidents in the military.

The loudest voices right now are the ones who are pissed that the world isn't solved in what amounts to an episode of a political drama on Netflix. Trump's messaging has not helped.

1) do nothing, accept another 50 years of fomenting hatred and violence across the region
2) do nothing and allow for Iranian alliances with nations unfavorable to us
3) negotiate bad deals that allow for nuclear arms, pretend we have the BMA that help the athletic department write these deals
4) form a coalition of nations to enforce some sort of restriction on iran through strongly worded letters and still allow for back door deals so long as they benefit individual nation, like the Iraqi food for oil program
5) Let Israel direct our military
6) regime change/ground invasion
7) announce mandatory evacuation, turn to glass

Trump screwed up and wanted to be a "war President" like Dubya.

He should have done a few strikes, cleaned it up, declared mission accomplished and pulled out. Instead he lingered and lately wanted to change the name to Trump Strait and all that nonsense.

He got a resounding slap from his bosses (the voters).

Phatbob said:

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We have barely done anything kinetic for months. We are playing the attrition game at this point and we have already done the heavy lifting. We obviously don't have the stomach to do what is required to win this outright militarily with boots on the ground, so the only way we can win is to stay the course and hope they bleed out, and the only way to lose is to stop now.

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Wars of attrition have no winners.

Just pack it up and return home. Happened to britian in the 50s with Egypt. They invaded, then literally stopped because Eisenhower said we would economically punish them if they continued. So they turned around.

Just leave. The usa/world doesn't care about the consequences so let them have them.

HollywoodBQ said:

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Really makes you wonder how many of the end state objective questions were asked before we rushed to start dropping bombs.

I thought Trump was going to be different but this looks like his version of Bush invading Iraq.

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Iran has completely emasculated him.
It's clear the administration did not plan well enough/think ahead enough about the SOH and the implications closing it would have.
Really just a massive miscalculation and blunder.

That stated, you simply cannot let the Iranians acquire a nuke.

I don't have the answer. There's a reason I'm not a geopolitical big wig. All I know is that if you think the "Islam problem" in the Western World is bad now, you ain't seen nothin' yet if the Iranians acquire nuclear weapons.

Edit: Changed a word because the TexAgs filter never ceases to surprise with censored words. Sheesh.

Anyone who's been realistic about the neocon wet dream of invading Iran for the last 30-plus saw this exact result coming. Trump's hubris made him think he could pull it off. Ended his presidency, ended (potentially for good) Texas, and cost us the Senate (and federal judges) for the next six years. Literally couldn't have gone any worse.

How to get out? Easy. Dems will end it like Obama did - by sending a pallet of cash (which the Iranians will call restitution) and unfreezing sanctioned accounts. We'll get IAEA inspections again (like we had before we invaded) as a sop. Iranians retain operational control of Hormuz.

Who?mikejones! said:

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Just pack it up and return home. Happened to britian in the 50s with Egypt. They invaded, then literally stopped because Eisenhower said we would economically punish them if they continued. So they turned around.

Just leave. The usa/world doesn't care about the consequences so let them have them.

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I'm fine with this too. WGAS. Just walk away.

No one will even remember it within a month because we will have moved onto the next thing in the cycle.

Cesspool Hustler said:

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It's clear the administration did not plan well enough/think ahead enough about the SOH and the implications closing it would have.

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Yeah, the Straits of Hormuz business is embarrassing. There is plenty of historical precedent so it was an obvious outcome.

I wonder if we can buyout the remainder of Trump's contract for $76M.

Allow them to control the Strait and give them funds to rebuild their nuclear enrichment program.

I'm not kidding. Give the Marxists in the US and the world what they want!

Who?mikejones! said:

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Just pack it up and return home. Happened to britian in the 50s with Egypt. They invaded, then literally stopped because Eisenhower said we would economically punish them if they continued. So they turned around.

Just leave. The usa/world doesn't care about the consequences so let them have them.

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just gotta put the right people on it

YouBet said:

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I've had same Exit Plan for months:

1. Make Pickaxe Mountain uninhabitable for humans.
2. Bomb the other sites again one more time for good measure.
3. Destroy Kharg Island.

Leave.

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Break the wrist and walk away. Seriously?

We need to all collectively come to grips with a couple of things. First, the admin wanted to overthrow the regime- an evil, despicable pariah state- but didn't have a good plan and totally failed. The limited war aims published later, like destroying their navy and missile programs, were face saving measures. Somehow the admin failed to consider what every analyst and war planner for 50 years warned about, the closure of the straits.

Second, this bungled war of choice cost the Republican Party the elections. We will now pay the consequences of our bad foreign policy in our own domestic politics.

There was no imminent nuclear threat. It wasn't some kind of master stroke. It was a deliberate attempt to get rid of a nasty regime, undertaken right after it had killed 40,000 of the people most likely to help us do that. It was a stunningly foolish strategic blunder borne of overconfidence after Maduro and overconfidence in purely military tools.

And we need to stop doing this.

NeverSeenEmWin said:

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YouBet said:

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I've had same Exit Plan for months:

1. Make Pickaxe Mountain uninhabitable for humans.
2. Bomb the other sites again one more time for good measure.
3. Destroy Kharg Island.

Leave.

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Break the wrist and walk away. Seriously?

We need to all collectively come to grips with a couple of things. First, the admin wanted to overthrow the regime- an evil, despicable pariah state- but didn't have a good plan and totally failed. The limited war aims published later, like destroying their navy and missile programs, were face saving measures. Somehow the admin failed to consider what every analyst and war planner for 50 years warned about, the closure of the straits.

Second, this bungled war of choice cost the Republican Party the elections. We will now pay the consequences of our bad foreign policy in our own domestic politics.

There was no imminent nuclear threat. It wasn't some kind of master stroke. It was a deliberate attempt to get rid of a nasty regime, undertaken right after it had killed 40,000 of the people most likely to help us do that. It was a stunningly foolish strategic blunder borne of overconfidence after Maduro and overconfidence in purely military tools.

And we need to stop doing this.

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WGAS. I'm fine with just walking away too. Good either way.

It impacts Europe more than us and I have zero regard for Europe.

PCC_80 said:

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Sadly this is probably the worst possible decision. We have them on the ropes, their Air Force and Navy are wiped out, they have almost no air defense, the IRGC is decimated, most of their leadership is dead, they are broke. We need to finish them off.

We have poked the bear and we should be committed to killing it because it will eventually come for us.

Iranians do not "Forgive and Forget". They remember and once they rearm they will come looking for revenge. I am guessing that within 5 years they will stage a major attack on the U.S. Perhaps this time it will be with a Nuke.

Dems/Libs think that we can just walk away from these fanatics and they will never bother us again. They are wrong.

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Then we should just nuke them if/when this happens.

PCC_80 said:

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Sadly this is probably the worst possible decision. We have them on the ropes, their Air Force and Navy are wiped out, they have almost no air defense, the IRGC is decimated, most of their leadership is dead, they are broke. We need to finish them off.

We have poked the bear and we should be committed to killing it because it will eventually come for us.

Iranians do not "Forgive and Forget". They remember and once they rearm they will come looking for revenge. I am guessing that within 5 years they will stage a major attack on the U.S. Perhaps this time it will be with a Nuke.

Dems/Libs think that we can just walk away from these fanatics and they will never bother us again. They are wrong.

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Pretty sure this is nearly verbatim what was spewed for years to justify the Iraq War.

People are mad at the war because of temporary gas prices. (Oh brother)

People want us to "walk away". Democrats try and force the issue.

When we walk away, Iran controls the strait and rebuilds. Probably tolls.

When Iran controls the strait there will be reduced flow and conflict and gas prices will stay high. Terrorism increases.

Democrats get what they want - including the issues needed to win in 2028.

I do think Trump bought us some additional time to live with an Iran without Nukes. But we can't tolerate a temporary gas price increase, much less an actual war, so its a temporary reprieve I suppose.

PCC_80 said:

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Sadly this is probably the worst possible decision. We have them on the ropes, their Air Force and Navy are wiped out, they have almost no air defense, the IRGC is decimated, most of their leadership is dead, they are broke. We need to finish them off.

We have poked the bear and we should be committed to killing it because it will eventually come for us.

Iranians do not "Forgive and Forget". They remember and once they rearm they will come looking for revenge. I am guessing that within 5 years they will stage a major attack on the U.S. Perhaps this time it will be with a Nuke.

Dems/Libs think that we can just walk away from these fanatics and they will never bother us again. They are wrong.

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You can't outlast an idea, especially not a religious one. This is not 1940s Japan where the emperor had a cultural obligation to his people. The Iranian leadership's only obligation is to their interpretation of their religion. They've already shown they're willing to murder their own population, a 20 year siege won't break their religious will. These people are insanely hard, they've been living a lifestyle that would kill the average American for thousands of years.

The cultural anthropology of Iran was in the Joint Staff war games. The military knew Iran couldn't be broken without literally killing them all off. Unfortunately, nobody remembers peaceful presidents, and Trump's biggest concern is being remembered as the best ever.

****, he even posted an AI image of himself as a General with MacArthur and Patton. In the picture he's wearing like 30 medals. Patton is wearing some bizarre Eastern European epaulets and MacArthur is a sergeant with like 6 medals

PCC_80 said:

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Sadly this is probably the worst possible decision. We have them on the ropes, their Air Force and Navy are wiped out, they have almost no air defense, the IRGC is decimated, most of their leadership is dead, they are broke. We need to finish them off.

We have poked the bear and we should be committed to killing it because it will eventually come for us.

Iranians do not "Forgive and Forget". They remember and once they rearm they will come looking for revenge. I am guessing that within 5 years they will stage a major attack on the U.S. Perhaps this time it will be with a Nuke.

Dems/Libs think that we can just walk away from these fanatics and they will never bother us again. They are wrong.

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Oh well. They can deal with it after some future attack. Seriously, the only answer is just walk away and let the dust settle wherever it may.

The ME is going to create pathways to get oil out outside of hormuz. It'll take time but they don't want to be beholden to crazy ass iranians. Let them deal with it.

Oh, and while we're not giving a ****, approve and make grants to build more refinement facilities in the states, more pipelines and totally secure america energy future where if/when the next global interruption happens, when have the ability to give the finger to the world and close our loop to serve only us

PCC_80 said:

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Sadly this is probably the worst possible decision. We have them on the ropes, their Air Force and Navy are wiped out, they have almost no air defense, the IRGC is decimated, most of their leadership is dead, they are broke. We need to finish them off.

We have poked the bear and we should be committed to killing it because it will eventually come for us.

Iranians do not "Forgive and Forget". They remember and once they rearm they will come looking for revenge. I am guessing that within 5 years they will stage a major attack on the U.S. Perhaps this time it will be with a Nuke.

Dems/Libs think that we can just walk away from these fanatics and they will never bother us again. They are wrong.

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You're welcome to continue being a war monger. The rest of the country is tired of it after 20 years of GWOT.