I meant the at TCFA is implying laws are being broken.

I don't see laws being systematically broken. (I'm sure some are as happens in all police work).

Your question is exactly what I am asking. What laws do the TCFA say are being broken?

HTownAg98 said:

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AgGrad99 said:

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I'll say this...various industries do rely on seasonal or migration labor. I'm ok with that.

These farmers/ranchers should be pushing their legislators to improve the system, rather than criticizing them for enforcing the law.

We need to work with Mexico, to facilitate an organized/legal labor program, which allows good workers to assist these industries.

What we can't allow any longer, is open borders and illegals flooding into the country unchecked...even if that helps an industry.

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We used to have a program after WW2 called the Bracero program that did exactly that. No one seems interested in that.

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I dont see how a modern version of the braceros program would work. There's no way the dems wouldn't litter it with poison pills.

Things like-

Healthcare
Living wage
Pathway to citizenship
Anchor babies

And so on.

Ellis Wyatt said:

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sam callahan said:

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Quote:

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These disruptions come at a time of enhanced focus and pressure on the cattle and beef supply chain. They are a costly and unnecessary impact to cattle producers already suffering from unwelcome political interference to both the markets as well as the physical supply chain. Frustratingly, the harm these actions cause to cattle producers last for days and weeks after such operations conclude.

We urge federal officials to conduct enforcement actions in a lawful, orderly, and transparent manner; respect due process; and communicate clearly with affected employers and communities."

---

This implies the enforcement actions have not been lawful.

With the scrutiny that ICE gets everywhere, where are the factual stories of unlawful actions?

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That isn't how I read it.

Stop employing illegals if you don't want them deported. Illegals are not entitled to the same "due process" that Americans are.

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Not only is that a blatant lie (everyone on US soil is entitled to the same due process. Stop lying.

Sims said:

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NIMBY equivalent.

I've met dozens of people who are staunchly anti illegal immigration and also employers of those who have.

They want to deport all of them, except for their guys.

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That goes for the guys mowing their lawn also

Logos Stick said:

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Malibu said:

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Correct. Two goals:

1. A functioning immigration system.
2. A reliable supply of agricultural workers to feed Americans and keep prices stable.

ICE raids on agriculture will disrupt food supply reliability and increase prices, unless one wants to engage in magical thinking. That's just an economics.

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We don't need more immigrants. Full stop.

It is functional. Just because you lefties want to import the 3rd world and can't, doesn't mean it's not functional.

You lefties use "we need immigration reform" and "our immigration system is broken" as false pretexts for open borders and taking permanent control like you have in the complete hellhole state of Cali you live in.

And this "A reliable supply of agricultural workers to feed Americans and keep prices stable" is simply another way of saying you want to exploit other humans for your own benefit.

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Always fun to watch posters invent my position for me out of thin air and then passionately argue against that made up position and throw in some insults for good measure.

I had a family member who was a dairyman. At middle age, he had a high blood pressure problem. It kind of came with the job. One visit to the doctor, his blood pressure had gone down. The doctor asked him what he was doing differently. He replied, "I hire a couple of [insert derogatory term for illegal aliens] to help me milk cows."

The doctor came back, "Maybe you should a couple more."

My wife's uncle ranches close to us in Zapata county. Full blown democrat open border Trump is bad guy. *****es and moans about the cost of labor since his illegal ranch hand has been deported and returned twice. Says these wets deserve a better life, which to them includes low pay because they are illegal.
Can't make this stuff up.

Those cattle feeding associations are whining because ICE and other immigration measures are cutting into their labor pool, i.e., illegals. There is no reason for it to have a "chilling effect" on legal documented workers. In fact, i isn't having enough of a chilling effect on the illegals so ICE needs to ramp it up. These cattle feeding associations should stop with the obvious lies.

AgGrad99 said:

---

I'll say this...various industries do rely on seasonal or migration labor. I'm ok with that.

These farmers/ranchers should be pushing their legislators to improve the system, rather than criticizing them for enforcing the law.

We need to work with Mexico, to facilitate an organized/legal labor program, which allows good workers to assist these industries.

What we can't allow any longer, is open borders and illegals flooding into the country unchecked...even if that helps an industry.

---

This is a reasonable and logical POV.

Malibu said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Malibu said:

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Correct. Two goals:

1. A functioning immigration system.
2. A reliable supply of agricultural workers to feed Americans and keep prices stable.

ICE raids on agriculture will disrupt food supply reliability and increase prices, unless one wants to engage in magical thinking. That's just an economics.

---

We don't need more immigrants. Full stop.

It is functional. Just because you lefties want to import the 3rd world and can't, doesn't mean it's not functional.

You lefties use "we need immigration reform" and "our immigration system is broken" as false pretexts for open borders and taking permanent control like you have in the complete hellhole state of Cali you live in.

And this "A reliable supply of agricultural workers to feed Americans and keep prices stable" is simply another way of saying you want to exploit other humans for your own benefit.

---

Always fun to watch posters invent my position for me out of thin air and then passionately argue against that made up position and throw in some insults for good measure.

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We had open borders under Biden, 12-15 million un-vaxxed illegals came in. Harris would have continued it. You voted for her. Yet you are opposed to open borders?!

I insulted Cali, yes. So what?

Deerdude said:

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My wife's uncle ranches close to us in Zapata county. Full blown democrat open border Trump is bad guy. *****es and moans about the cost of labor since his illegal ranch hand has been deported and returned twice. Says these wets deserve a better life, which to them includes low pay because they are illegal.
Can't make this stuff up.

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Honestly they probably are getting a better life or they wouldn't be doing it. And if there were citizens that actually wanted those jobs they wouldn't be doing it either.

Let's not act like there aren't already programs in place to allow foreign farm/ag labor.

I've worked alongside many workers brought in on these programs for a long time. Of course, it's still cheaper to skirt these programs, so many people do.

But pretending these programs don't already exist is either uninformed or purposefully misleading.

Malibu said:

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If ICE is doing something extra-judicial here then show the receipts. Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas ranchers could find thousands of willing journalists and would come off as credible.

The more likely explanation is that of course they hire illegals, the ICE disruptions cause immediate harm to the business and will impact prices.

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Pretty much a thread-ender post. If it's as bad as you say it is, every journalist and their dog would be all over this like pastrami on rye.

sam callahan said:

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Why would you issue a statement urging them to be lawful, if you weren't suspecting them/accusing them of being unlawful?

The anti-ICE crowd is certainly using it as fuel to their fire.

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Oh the irony of urging ICE to be lawful so they can continue to be unlawful.

docb said:

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Deerdude said:

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My wife's uncle ranches close to us in Zapata county. Full blown democrat open border Trump is bad guy. *****es and moans about the cost of labor since his illegal ranch hand has been deported and returned twice. Says these wets deserve a better life, which to them includes low pay because they are illegal.
Can't make this stuff up.

---

Honestly they probably are getting a better life or they wouldn't be doing it. And if there were citizens that actually wanted those jobs they wouldn't be doing it either.

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Sure they are. A ranch hand in any other world is most likely considered unskilled labor. Still, if you are not paying American wages in America, it's not right. I have a part time hand that I pay $175/ day because that's what he charges. He's legal. Got that way during an amnesty program. This has been offered multiple times. It escaped me that the talking point is that someone has been here multiple decades so should be allowed to stay. That's BS. Do it right or leave.

bobbranco said:

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sam callahan said:

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Why would you issue a statement urging them to be lawful, if you weren't suspecting them/accusing them of being unlawful?

The anti-ICE crowd is certainly using it as fuel to their fire.

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Cattlemen have turned into sheep.

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I'm going to guess that TCFA represents the feedlots with 100,000 head more than they do the rancher with less than 1,000 head

just like NCBA

docb said:

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Deerdude said:

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My wife's uncle ranches close to us in Zapata county. Full blown democrat open border Trump is bad guy. *****es and moans about the cost of labor since his illegal ranch hand has been deported and returned twice. Says these wets deserve a better life, which to them includes low pay because they are illegal.
Can't make this stuff up.

---

Honestly they probably are getting a better life or they wouldn't be doing it. And if there were citizens that actually wanted those jobs they wouldn't be doing it either.

---

Exactly. It's amazing how clueless people are about ag work, insisting that by magically raising wages in an already stressed farm economy the required workers will beat a path. No doubt those unemployed young men with their years of livestock handling and farming skills (There aren't many "Teeters" around) will flock from downtown Dallas for long days and tough working conditions. The ranches I'm most familiar with hire ZERO illegal immigrant labor, and their H2A labor force is closely monitored to insure that's all the work they do. To top it off, they all have free housing (4 to a two bedroom farmhouse is normal) and are on rotating 9 on and 3 home rotations as part of their work visas. But I guess if you put "full stop" in a post it instantaneously becomes true.

Logos Stick said:

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Watermelon Man said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

---

sam callahan said:

---

Quote:

---

These disruptions come at a time of enhanced focus and pressure on the cattle and beef supply chain. They are a costly and unnecessary impact to cattle producers already suffering from unwelcome political interference to both the markets as well as the physical supply chain. Frustratingly, the harm these actions cause to cattle producers last for days and weeks after such operations conclude.

We urge federal officials to conduct enforcement actions in a lawful, orderly, and transparent manner; respect due process; and communicate clearly with affected employers and communities."

---

This implies the enforcement actions have not been lawful.

With the scrutiny that ICE gets everywhere, where are the factual stories of unlawful actions?

---

That isn't how I read it.

Stop employing illegals if you don't want them deported. Illegals are not entitled to the same "due process" that Americans are.

---

Not only is that a blatant lie (everyone on US soil is entitled to the same due process. Stop lying.

---

Wrong.

Everyone on U.S. soil is a "person," so they get due process. That's true.

They do not all get the same process. That's also true, and the Supreme Court has said it out loud.

---

The problem wasn't created overnight, and it won't be solved overnight. But the fact that it will take years (possibly many years) to correct the problem shouldn't be used as an excuse to never start the correction.

Sorry, but I don't subscribe to the "a nation can't feed itself without outside help" theory. You (not you specifically) just wouldn't be able to buy your cheap Chinses plastic anymore and that bothers a lot of people.

Quote:

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Our organizations respect the responsibility of federal agencies to enforce the law

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They should have stopped writing after this sentence.

YellAg2004 said:

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The problem wasn't created overnight, and it won't be solved overnight. But the fact that it will take years (possibly many years) to correct the problem shouldn't be used as an excuse to never start the correction.

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What "correction"? What needs correcting is the bureaucracy required to get one guy to do seasonal work.

Logos Stick said:

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Sorry, but I don't subscribe to the "a nation can't feed itself without outside help" theory. You (not you specifically) just wouldn't be able to buy your cheap Chinses plastic anymore and that bothers a lot of people.

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And there's your problem…….we aren't just feeding ourselves. This isn't 1926 it's 2026, and ag exports are part of this nation's economic backbone. The scale of farms and nature of the business quite obviously do require help that just is t available domestically, nor is that life palatable to most of our nation's available workforce. It's not nearly as simple as "raise farm wages and the labor will appear".

Who?mikejones! said:

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Maybe they should also charge the owners for hiring illegal workers

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Sims said:

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NIMBY equivalent.

I've met dozens of people who are staunchly anti illegal immigration and also employers of those who have.

They want to deport all of them, except for their guys.

---

Another POTD, IMO.

The vast majority of exports are volume foods that are produced via mechanized processes, not from temp seasonal workers. We could lose every temp seasonal worker and you'd see very little change in GDP on exports. Seasonal workers are producing food mainly consumed here.

HTownAg98 said:

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Colonel Kurtz said:

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Maybe, oh I don't know, hire Americans?

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Anyone that wants to go work in a slaughter house scooping up pig guts is welcome to do so.

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I bet robots will do this task and that we will see them in the workforce in the very near future.

Pros are that the robots will show up to work every day, work without a break, and not need a welfare check to subsidize the cost to live in our country.

In addition, you won't need to hire all those bilingual teachers for your small-town school district, and you may not have to wait so long at the ER or DMV. Your roads will last longer, slum apartment complexes will be torn down sooner, and there will less trash on the street that has to be cleaned up.

Cons are you may not have as many taquerias that you can get your taco from, and you won't have as many Spanish radio stations to choose from on the dial.

Logos Stick said:

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The vast majority of exports are volume foods that are produced via mechanized processes, not from temp seasonal workers. We could lose every temp seasonal worker and you'd see very little change in GDP on exports. Seasonal workers are producing food mainly consumed here.

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You should really stay in your lane here. Our biggest exports are bulk commodities like corn, cotton, and soybeans which are the poster children for "seasonal work". Mechanized or not, you've never filled a 24 row corn planter, plowed a 300 acres field, or run. $500,000 spray rig and it shows. Even the livestock industry has "seasonal work" which is why my renter lost a goodly chunk of her crew from Nov-Jan.

Logos Stick said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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Colonel Kurtz said:

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Maybe, oh I don't know, hire Americans?

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Anyone that wants to go work in a slaughter house scooping up pig guts is welcome to do so.

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Pay them enough and they will.

Exploiting human beings so you can eat a cheap steak seems incompatible with claiming you care about workers, immigrants, or "the little guy."

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When is the last time you ate a cheap steak? Lol

sloppyjoe said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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Colonel Kurtz said:

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Maybe, oh I don't know, hire Americans?

---

Anyone that wants to go work in a slaughter house scooping up pig guts is welcome to do so.

---

I bet robots will do this task and that we will see them in the workforce in the very near future.

Pros are that the robots will show up to work every day, work without a break, and not need a welfare check to subsidize the cost to live in our country.

In addition, you won't need to hire all those bilingual teachers for your small-town school district, and you may not have to wait so long at the ER or DMV. Your roads will last longer, slum apartment complexes will be torn down sooner, and there will less trash on the street that has to be cleaned up.

Cons are you may not have as many taquerias that you can get your taco from, and you won't have as many Spanish radio stations to choose from on the dial.

---

The welfare checks would just turn into subsidies to the farmers for their robots.

sam callahan said:

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Why would you issue a statement urging them to be lawful, if you weren't suspecting them/accusing them of being unlawful?

The anti-ICE crowd is certainly using it as fuel to their fire.

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Because most people arenonlymlokoingnoutnfir their own bottom line, not whether something is right or wrong.

Lawyers are the most guilty of this (I say as the son of a great attorney).

The Sun said:

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sloppyjoe said:

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HTownAg98 said:

---

Colonel Kurtz said:

---

Maybe, oh I don't know, hire Americans?

---

Anyone that wants to go work in a slaughter house scooping up pig guts is welcome to do so.

---

I bet robots will do this task and that we will see them in the workforce in the very near future.

Pros are that the robots will show up to work every day, work without a break, and not need a welfare check to subsidize the cost to live in our country.

In addition, you won't need to hire all those bilingual teachers for your small-town school district, and you may not have to wait so long at the ER or DMV. Your roads will last longer, slum apartment complexes will be torn down sooner, and there will less trash on the street that has to be cleaned up.

Cons are you may not have as many taquerias that you can get your taco from, and you won't have as many Spanish radio stations to choose from on the dial.

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The welfare checks would just turn into subsidies to the farmers for their robots

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H2As are not eligible for SNAP, SSI, etc…….., so no welfare checks.