Scruffy said:

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Meanwhile China keeps building.

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Who cares!??

A. G. Pennypacker said:

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TKEAg04 said:

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You are truly falling behind if you are not harnessing some of the latest models in AI. I use Grok Bots now for almost full automation of all of my workflows and it's mind blowing just how good they are now.

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Can you give some specific examples? Where do you learn how to do this?

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Grok Bots. What used to take me days, takes 2 minutes. Data consolidation, digestion and practical explanation is as easy as a couple of sentences. It requires a subscription, but continues to only get better.

Example - I manage very large capital projects. Lots of inputs and outputs. Making sense of a tremendous amount of data takes time. Giving others a snapshot of that data is an art, which used to take hours and hours, many times days. I can make that happen now in less than 5 minutes and it auto digests it for me and exports in the format that I want, when I want. You have to understand how to prompt it, but when you do, the sky is the limit.

Seamaster said:

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Scruffy said:

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Meanwhile China keeps building.

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Who cares!??

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You should. Everyone should.

The winner of the AI race will rule the world….possibly until the end of humanity.

It's more real than you can possibly imagine.

China China China. How many Chinese parts and chips are in our data centers in the US? You can't build a data center without China. I don't know how some of yall sleep at night with how much yall fear China. Hate to tell you but Chinese are way smarter than Americans so I'm sure they will stay well ahead.

What chips do you think are in American data centers?

The "superintelligent AI will take over the world and kill humans because it won't need us" is a sci-fi trope propagated by the weird dweebs in Silicon Valley as part of the rationalist religion. It is not based in reality.

There's no indication China is even working on such a thing. The race itself is fairly mythical.

The more real threat with AI development is these dweebs *trying* to create superintelligence and irresponsibly testing and releasing their flawed products. For example, the recent hacking events where they remove guardrails and let agent swarms run on unsupervised loops, which they knew should result in chaos (because LLMs will vary from human intent if prompted enough times) but they did it anyway so they could brag about their benchmark scores. It's the companies themselves which would cause chaos, not some sort of mythical superintelligence that will likely never exist.

ErnestEndeavor said:

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The "superintelligent AI will take over the world and kill humans because it won't need us" is a sci-fi trope propagated by the weird dweebs in Silicon Valley as part of the rationalist religion. It is not based in reality.

There's no indication China is even working on such a thing. The race itself is fairly mythical.

The more real threat with AI development is these dweebs *trying* to create superintelligence and irresponsibly testing and releasing their flawed products. For example, the recent hacking events where they remove guardrails and let agent swarms run on unsupervised loops, which they knew should result in chaos (because LLMs will vary from human intent if prompted enough times) but they did it anyway so they could brag about their benchmark scores. It's the companies themselves which would cause chaos, not some sort of mythical superintelligence that will likely never exist.

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You might think you're right, but you're not. The future of human civilization belongs to the sovereign power that utilizes artificial intelligence the most effectively. It's that clean and it's that simple.

If "AI" ever becomes the least bit intelligent, it might be worth a worry.

TexasRebel said:

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If "AI" ever becomes the least bit intelligent, it might be worth a worry.

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You're clearly ignorant on the topic. It would already run circles around you, my friend. And that's just what's available to the public.

You think it can run?

Just wait until they get another $5 trillion of capex and about 50 million more GPUs. Then Sam Altman will really show you what their models can do. They have to keep it super secret for now. Exponential improvement bruh.

Ignore their previous false claims and just trust them.

Jbob04 said:

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China China China. How many Chinese parts and chips are in our data centers in the US? You can't build a data center without China. I don't know how some of yall sleep at night with how much yall fear China. Hate to tell you but Chinese are way smarter than Americans so I'm sure they will stay well ahead.

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China is currently behind us in AI at least in part because they can't produce the chips we and our partners in Taiwan can and we won't allow them to be sold to them.

China appears to be focusing on more practical use cases for other types of AI.

Almost all of the capex in the United States is being spent to build out these ridiculously massive and expensive LLM systems.

China does not appear to be pursuing this as much as they are developing AI for robotics and other machine learning applications using more deterministic systems. IMO this is what the capex in the US should be spent on.

ErnestEndeavor said:

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China appears to be focusing on more practical use cases for other types of AI.

Almost all of the capex in the United States is being spent to build out these ridiculously massive and expensive LLM systems.

China does not appear to be pursuing this as much as they are developing AI for robotics and other machine learning applications using more deterministic systems.

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That is all fine and good, but they are behind us in all of it and the reason is they can't make the fastest and most capable chips. Most of their negotiations lately with Trump have been about how to get the way cleared for them to be allowed to buy more and better chips. We are not running Chinese chips in our AI and they would desperately love to be running American and Taiwanese chips in theirs.

ErnestEndeavor said:

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China appears to be focusing on more practical use cases for other types of AI.

Almost all of the capex in the United States is being spent to build out these ridiculously massive and expensive LLM systems.

China does not appear to be pursuing this as much as they are developing AI for robotics and other machine learning applications using more deterministic systems. IMO this is what the capex in the US should be spent on.

---

China is doing what command economies do and the U.S. is doing what free economies do. Meanwhile westerners are told to fear the cold, hard efficiency of the command model because the free market approach is inefficient and can't possibly keep up. "The Americans are using AI to create cat videos while the Chinese are using it in meaningful ways" is fear porn designed to make you scared that "we're going to lose". Then the free market approach lands at something so absurdly good that everyone realizes it was the right approach all along. We've seen this movie before. It called the Cold War.

There's a reason all of these amazing technologies keep emerging from the U.S. which is that we don't place artificial constraints on what creative people can create. "Go do something amazing" is always going to win in a fight with "Go do what I told you" when it comes to creating new stuff. 100% of the time we're going to win this "fight".

The point is it's not really a race with China toward some sort of massive superintelligence system. In my opinion that narrative is designed to influence public opinion in the event the two major LLM companies want a government bailout.

China is doing their own thing. I completely agree with you that whatever they do it will be inefficient due to their economic structure and (frankly) their culture.

But just because a free market invests in whatever it wants doesn't mean it cannot also be very destructive. Irrational exuberance is still a thing and right now it's pointed at LLMs. Data centers are being overbuilt at a cost far too high to generate returns. OpenAI and Anthropic will have to generate hundreds of billions in revenue over the next few years just to meet their data center obligations. It's not going to happen.

ErnestEndeavor said:

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The point is it's not really a race with China toward some sort of massive superintelligence system. In my opinion that narrative is designed to influence public opinion in the event the two major LLM companies want a government bailout.

China is doing their own thing. I completely agree with you that whatever they do it will be inefficient due to their economic structure and (frankly) their culture.

But just because a free market invests in whatever it wants doesn't mean it cannot also be very destructive. Irrational exuberance is still a thing and right now it's pointed at LLMs. Data centers are being overbuilt at a cost far too high to generate returns. OpenAI and Anthropic will have to generate hundreds of billions in revenue over the next few years just to meet their data center obligations. It's not going to happen.

---

First I think we're on the same page in general. I do think it's way too early to know where this lands. OpenAI and Anthropic aren't the only AI firms out there and my hunch is they aren't driving more than 20% of the data center build out. There's been a run in Mac Minis for over a year because you can host things yourself that five years ago we weren't even able to create. That's cool but it's wildly inefficient and not cost effective from a data management perspective so eventually all those agents (or at least the ones of consequence) on all those Mac Minis will go to cloud hosted sites in these shiny new data centers. That's not substantially different than what we've seen with the shift from local servers to cloud based solutions.

Is the market overreacting in a lot of ways? Sure. But that's ok, once we find equilibrium we'll have done a lot of amazing things and the world will be better for it. This is just part of that process. I grow businesses for a living so I have a high degree of tolerance for the chaos that comes with that. For me this is fun.

OpenAI and Anthropic contracts are driving about 80% of projected hyperscaler AI revenue. Data centers are being built and funded by the hyperscalers, to be mostly rented back out to these two companies. That's the big problem. OpenAI will owe Microsoft and Oracle something like $600 billion over the next several years and will owe creditors a total of something like $850 billion. Anthropic has been better with their finances but will still owe in the hundreds of billions.

It's not clear where that money will come from.

Oracle is already overlevered and their bond rating is just one step above junk. If OpenAI can't pay them back for these data center investments it's going to get very dicey. One more downgrade and it's pretty well over for them.

Seamaster said:

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Scruffy said:

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Meanwhile China keeps building.

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Who cares!??

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Anybody with a brain. WTF !!

ttu_85 said:

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Seamaster said:

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Scruffy said:

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Meanwhile China keeps building.

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Who cares!??

---

Anybody with a brain. WTF !!

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So China will have the expense and trouble and the AI that makes dancing Cat videos, surveillance state, hallucinates and confuses itself while their citizens sit around and get fat?

Why does America need to win this?

Seamaster said:

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ttu_85 said:

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Seamaster said:

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Scruffy said:

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Meanwhile China keeps building.

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Who cares!??

---

Anybody with a brain. WTF !!

---

So China will have the expense and trouble and the AI that makes dancing Cat videos, surveillance state, hallucinates and confuses itself while their citizens sit around and get fat?

Why does America need to win this?

---

What many don't understand is that you NEED the AI slop to allow the model to learn and recursively use that knowledge to improve itself. If we didn't have AI slop, we wouldn't be so far ahead. China is nowhere close to that. The public models you see online are also a couple generations behind.

TKEAg04 said:

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Seamaster said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

Seamaster said:

---

Scruffy said:

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Meanwhile China keeps building.

---

Who cares!??

---

Anybody with a brain. WTF !!

---

So China will have the expense and trouble and the AI that makes dancing Cat videos, surveillance state, hallucinates and confuses itself while their citizens sit around and get fat?

Why does America need to win this?

---

What many don't understand is that you NEED the AI slop to allow the model to learn and recursively use that knowledge to improve itself. If we didn't have AI slop, we wouldn't be so far ahead. China is nowhere close to that. The public models you see online are also a couple generations behind.

---

But why do WE need this? Why is this a critical element to my future and my children's future?

What's the actual benefit?

Seamaster said:

---

TKEAg04 said:

---

Seamaster said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

Seamaster said:

---

Scruffy said:

---

Meanwhile China keeps building.

---

Who cares!??

---

Anybody with a brain. WTF !!

---

So China will have the expense and trouble and the AI that makes dancing Cat videos, surveillance state, hallucinates and confuses itself while their citizens sit around and get fat?

Why does America need to win this?

---

What many don't understand is that you NEED the AI slop to allow the model to learn and recursively use that knowledge to improve itself. If we didn't have AI slop, we wouldn't be so far ahead. China is nowhere close to that. The public models you see online are also a couple generations behind.

---

But why do WE need this? Why is this a critical element to my future and my children's future?

What's the actual benefit?

---

If you can't look past the AI slop and research the true power of this, I don't know what to tell you. Lots of people have shared what they currently use AI for.

Seamaster said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

Seamaster said:

---

Scruffy said:

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Meanwhile China keeps building.

---

Who cares!??

---

Anybody with a brain. WTF !!

---

So China will have the expense and trouble and the AI that makes dancing Cat videos, surveillance state, hallucinates and confuses itself while their citizens sit around and get fat?

Why does America need to win this?

---

Its what one chooses to make. AI is just a tool you apparently have NEVER used. Why cant you people get the fact its a friggen tool albeit a very very powerful one. And a tool is used to fasten or build things including in this case, other tools. I use it for all kinds of things including producing boiler plate code that is time consuming and a bore but yet critical.

AI is just the latest phase of a very old and long running Great Power game that has existed since we built sailing ships and gun powder. AI is the latest and greatest entry into the productivity and technological advantage game.

And remember this is first gen tech so lets stick our heads in the sand and drop out and watch what China and India will do with 3rd gen AI tech. First gen is powerful enough already to change the game.

TKEAg04 said:

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Seamaster said:

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TKEAg04 said:

---

Seamaster said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

Seamaster said:

---

Scruffy said:

---

Meanwhile China keeps building.

---

Who cares!??

---

Anybody with a brain. WTF !!

---

So China will have the expense and trouble and the AI that makes dancing Cat videos, surveillance state, hallucinates and confuses itself while their citizens sit around and get fat?

Why does America need to win this?

---

What many don't understand is that you NEED the AI slop to allow the model to learn and recursively use that knowledge to improve itself. If we didn't have AI slop, we wouldn't be so far ahead. China is nowhere close to that. The public models you see online are also a couple generations behind.

---

But why do WE need this? Why is this a critical element to my future and my children's future?

What's the actual benefit?

---

If you can't look past the AI slop and research the true power of this, I don't know what to tell you. Lots of people have shared what they currently use AI for.

---

I have used AI.

My point is not that I can't see what it's used for.

My point is that if everything claimed about its greatness and usefulness comes true, what is the benefit to my family and my grandchildren and great-grandchildren?

To put it simply:

How will your grandchildren have a measurably better existence and happier and virtuous lives because of AI and data centers 100 years from now?

TexasRebel said:

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If "AI" ever becomes the least bit intelligent, it might be worth a worry.

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To this, I would say to pay a $30 subscription to Grok or one of the other paid models and give it a try. You might be very surprised at how intelligent the pay-walled AI models are.

TexasRebel said:

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You think it can run?

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Connected to a robot it can 100% run circles around you physically. Anything with wifi, which is everything, is game.

Seamaster said:

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TKEAg04 said:

---

Seamaster said:

---

TKEAg04 said:

---

Seamaster said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

Seamaster said:

---

Scruffy said:

---

Meanwhile China keeps building.

---

Who cares!??

---

Anybody with a brain. WTF !!

---

So China will have the expense and trouble and the AI that makes dancing Cat videos, surveillance state, hallucinates and confuses itself while their citizens sit around and get fat?

Why does America need to win this?

---

What many don't understand is that you NEED the AI slop to allow the model to learn and recursively use that knowledge to improve itself. If we didn't have AI slop, we wouldn't be so far ahead. China is nowhere close to that. The public models you see online are also a couple generations behind.

---

But why do WE need this? Why is this a critical element to my future and my children's future?

What's the actual benefit?

---

If you can't look past the AI slop and research the true power of this, I don't know what to tell you. Lots of people have shared what they currently use AI for.

---

I have used AI.

My point is not that I can't see what it's used for.

My point is that if everything claimed about its greatness and usefulness comes true, what is the benefit to my family and my grandchildren and great-grandchildren?

To put it simply:

How will your grandchildren have a measurably better existence and happier and virtuous lives because of AI and data centers 100 years from now?

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They will be lazier and dumber than the prior generations.

BMX Bandit said:

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It's called SI.

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will there be a swimsuit edition?

TKEAg04 said:

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TexasRebel said:

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If "AI" ever becomes the least bit intelligent, it might be worth a worry.

---

To this, I would say to pay a $30 subscription to Grok or one of the other paid models and give it a try. You might be very surprised at how intelligent the pay-walled AI models are.

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You need to familiarize yourself with the Chinese Room.

Logos Stick said:

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There's definitely "AI" involved there.

Jbob04 said:

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Seamaster said:

---

TKEAg04 said:

---

Seamaster said:

---

TKEAg04 said:

---

Seamaster said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

Seamaster said:

---

Scruffy said:

---

Meanwhile China keeps building.

---

Who cares!??

---

Anybody with a brain. WTF !!

---

So China will have the expense and trouble and the AI that makes dancing Cat videos, surveillance state, hallucinates and confuses itself while their citizens sit around and get fat?

Why does America need to win this?

---

What many don't understand is that you NEED the AI slop to allow the model to learn and recursively use that knowledge to improve itself. If we didn't have AI slop, we wouldn't be so far ahead. China is nowhere close to that. The public models you see online are also a couple generations behind.

---

But why do WE need this? Why is this a critical element to my future and my children's future?

What's the actual benefit?

---

If you can't look past the AI slop and research the true power of this, I don't know what to tell you. Lots of people have shared what they currently use AI for.

---

I have used AI.

My point is not that I can't see what it's used for.

My point is that if everything claimed about its greatness and usefulness comes true, what is the benefit to my family and my grandchildren and great-grandchildren?

To put it simply:

How will your grandchildren have a measurably better existence and happier and virtuous lives because of AI and data centers 100 years from now?

---

They will be lazier and dumber than the prior generations.

---

That's not necessarily true. If they're the industrious type they'll figure out how to harness whatever great tools exist in their time and build something amazing with them. This isn't any different than any other period of time. People prone to work hard and accomplish big things are still going to do so. The rest, they'll be lazy fat asses.

LOYAL AG said:

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Jbob04 said:

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Seamaster said:

---

TKEAg04 said:

---

Seamaster said:

---

TKEAg04 said:

---

Seamaster said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

Seamaster said:

---

Scruffy said:

---

Meanwhile China keeps building.

---

Who cares!??

---

Anybody with a brain. WTF !!

---

So China will have the expense and trouble and the AI that makes dancing Cat videos, surveillance state, hallucinates and confuses itself while their citizens sit around and get fat?

Why does America need to win this?

---

What many don't understand is that you NEED the AI slop to allow the model to learn and recursively use that knowledge to improve itself. If we didn't have AI slop, we wouldn't be so far ahead. China is nowhere close to that. The public models you see online are also a couple generations behind.

---

But why do WE need this? Why is this a critical element to my future and my children's future?

What's the actual benefit?

---

If you can't look past the AI slop and research the true power of this, I don't know what to tell you. Lots of people have shared what they currently use AI for.

---

I have used AI.

My point is not that I can't see what it's used for.

My point is that if everything claimed about its greatness and usefulness comes true, what is the benefit to my family and my grandchildren and great-grandchildren?

To put it simply:

How will your grandchildren have a measurably better existence and happier and virtuous lives because of AI and data centers 100 years from now?

---

They will be lazier and dumber than the prior generations.

---

That's not necessarily true. If they're the industrious type they'll figure out how to harness whatever great tools exist in their time and build something amazing with them. This isn't any different than any other period of time. People prone to work hard and accomplish big things are still going to do so. The rest, they'll be lazy fat asses.

---

Just because you aren't an entrepreneur who built your own company doesn't mean you're a lazy fat ass. Regular working people which is the vast majority of people will be the ones who are screwed

TexasRebel said:

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Logos Stick said:

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There's definitely "AI" involved there.

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https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/after-outrunning-bolt-chinas-robot-champion-races-towards-real-world-work-2026-09-10/

Quote:

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BEIJING, Sept 10 (Reuters) - A week after his robot outran humanity's fastest man, Jack Guo is already chasing a harder goal.

TianGong Ultra stunned spectators at the World Humanoid Robot Games when it covered 100 metres in 8.64 seconds, almost a full second faster than Usain Bolt's world record. Behind the feat were days of round-the-clock testing and repairing battered robots between races.

Just a week later, the bespectacled 34-year-old engineer is already focused on a bigger challenge.
"We want to turn high performance into high reliability and high usability," he told Reuters in his first interview with foreign media.

The record-breaking run offers a rare window into China's growing lead in humanoid robotics, where state-backed research, deep supply chains and intense competition are accelerating advances in machine mobility. Yet Guo's next goal underscores a harder task facing the industry as it struggles to turn dazzling demonstrations into useful workers.

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AI in these robots would be a game changer.