Texaguser17 said:

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Fuel costs could be busting everyone's budgets.

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The entire thing is just an arms race. All of these data centers are fighting over the raw materials and labor and paying stupid rates for them. Someone was going to be the loser.

Signel said:

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Has anyone ever thought Oracle was good at anything?

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They've been great at billing customers.

FWTXAg said:

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AI isn't going to die. It's going to dominate and run our world two decades from now.

The faux economy and ponzi scheme we've propped up on the back of it with fake promises and name changes to Super Intelligence? Yes, that is going to die a quick, and very painful death. And soon.

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Two decades? We do not have that much time. This is happening now and the scary thing is it is accelerating.

I want this to be the straw that breaks the Data Center back, it reads like a bad contract Oracle's legal team entered into and is now trying to modify.

From the coverage, Oracle would currently be on the hook for expenditures even if the plant is massively delayed in going live.

JB99 said:

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Hank the Grifter said:

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Honest question from an "old".
I keep seeing people saying they are "harnessing" AI to help their day to day routines.
What? How?
Can you gov reopen concrete examples AND how to leverage the AI to do those things?
My experience with AI is typing questions into ChatGPT.

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An AI Harness basically means you are giving it tools to use. The "Harness" is usually an application that runs on your computer. It's wired into the chat responses coming from Claude, chatgpt, etc... so the harness/app can act on the text/instructions provided by the AI. Anthropic has multiple harnesses Claude code, Claude cowork. OpenAI calls theirs Codex. So instead of just sending you a response in text it can do things via your computer. Run commands, browse the web, use applications installed on your computer, etc...

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They are all very good. I use Grok Bots personally and you literally just talk to it like you would a personal assistant and away it goes.

GeorgiAg said:

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FWTXAg said:

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AI isn't going to die. It's going to dominate and run our world two decades from now.

The faux economy and ponzi scheme we've propped up on the back of it with fake promises and name changes to Super Intelligence? Yes, that is going to die a quick, and very painful death. And soon.

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Two decades? We do not have that much time. This is happening now and the scary thing is it is accelerating.

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Two decades before we're in 1984 level dystopia, until we see robots everywhere we're still quite a ways off.

AI generated videos and replacing non-manual desk jobs is a long way from where the our criminal governmnet wants this to be.

Lots of local pushback.

https://searchlightnm.org/project-jupiter-foes-laud-recent-court-wins-at-quiet-dona-ana-county-meeting/

AI is not alive. AI is not going to do anything to humanity. But its users are likely to do so.

AI optimizes itself to follow instructions. If the instructions are destructive, it generally does not care, unless the model includes instructions (guardrails) to prevent abuse.

When AI hacks another site, takes over a user's computer...it is simply trying to follow its instructions. And its users and modelers are at fault. And likely civilly and criminally liable.

Think about all the ways that governments and attorneys try to cash in on "oops". For instance CA wildfires. Airlines not updating compsec and losing days of travel due to outages...

Just wait for the AI cases. The potential liability of AI purveyors and users may break many companies and employ many attorneys. This is the primary reason they are reaching out to governments, to get shielded from this.

Dorm 15 said:

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Lots of local pushback.

https://searchlightnm.org/project-jupiter-foes-laud-recent-court-wins-at-quiet-dona-ana-county-meeting/

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Lots of Chinese funded hysteria leading to local idiots protesting **** they know nothing about…

Signel said:

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Has anyone ever thought Oracle was good at anything?

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Right now at my company Oracle is down. Been trying to get into our reports for about an hour and can't get in.

Over_ed said:

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AI is not alive. AI is not going to do anything to humanity. But its users are likely to do so.

AI optimizes itself to follow instructions. If the instructions are destructive, it generally does not care, unless the model includes instructions (guardrails) to prevent abuse.

When AI hacks another site, takes over a user's computer...it is simply trying to follow its instructions. And its users and modelers are at fault. And likely civilly and criminally liable.

Think about all the ways that governments and attorneys try to cash in on "oops". For instance CA wildfires. Airlines not updating compsec and losing days of travel due to outages...

Just wait for the AI cases. The potential liability of AI purveyors and users may break many companies and employ many attorneys. This is the primary reason they are reaching out to governments, to get shielded from this.

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Bingo

Over_ed said:

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AI is not alive. AI is not going to do anything to humanity. But its users are likely to do so.

AI optimizes itself to follow instructions. If the instructions are destructive, it generally does not care, unless the model includes instructions (guardrails) to prevent abuse.

When AI hacks another site, takes over a user's computer...it is simply trying to follow its instructions. And its users and modelers are at fault. And likely civilly and criminally liable.

Think about all the ways that governments and attorneys try to cash in on "oops". For instance CA wildfires. Airlines not updating compsec and losing days of travel due to outages...

Just wait for the AI cases. The potential liability of AI purveyors and users may break many companies and employ many attorneys. This is the primary reason they are reaching out to governments, to get shielded from this.

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Funny you mention airlines. The reasons the airlines came under the federal regulation they did is they ran to co crews to beg for regulation in exchange for immunity (and fixed pricing).

AI companies doing the same thing here. Trying to lock in the playing field, current arranges, protection for that, and immunity for anything that goes wrong.

As someone who has now lived here a short 5 months, this is in all likelihood a New Mexico thing and not Oracle. It was probably stupid for Oracle to make a bet this large in New Mexico. I was actually shocked to learn that this project even existed here after we moved here. Oracle has been running commercials for it pretty much nonstop since living here touting jobs, what it will do for NM, etc so it was obvious they were already fighting an uphill battle on the PR front.

This is a very weird state. The overall population is uneducated with zero sense of urgency...about ANYTHING. I have shared this before but we moved here in May and have yet to even be billed for electricity. No one in our neighborhood has been billed in many months. We know people who have not been billed for well over a year. I've discussed this with the power company and the lady on the phone was just completely nonchalant about it. Very pleasant lady, but was not concerned in the least. I've even submitted my own readings many weeks back and we still haven't been billed.

The reason for this is because they don't have any employees to come read meters. If you can't even muster up people to come read power meters, how are you going to find locals committed enough to build out one of the largest planned data center campuses in the country...on time? Yeah, good luck with that.

We've all heard about people living on "island time" when you are in a locale like that...well this takes it to another level. Half of the vendors I've used around the house I've either never paid or I have finally been able to pay them in the last couple of weeks for work done in May. It's the wildest **** I've ever dealt with. People here simply have zero urgency even about getting themselves paid.

Simple but I use copilot to organize my work emails and break them down by priority response time at the end of the day. Provides me a nice and tidy summary and helps me catch anything I may have missed that day. It would take me too much time to review the 75+ emails I get a day.

TKEAg04 said:

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You are truly falling behind if you are not harnessing some of the latest models in AI. I use Grok Bots now for almost full automation of all of my workflows and it's mind blowing just how good they are now.

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Or does that mean your workflows are too simple?

flown-the-coop said:

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Dorm 15 said:

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Lots of local pushback.

https://searchlightnm.org/project-jupiter-foes-laud-recent-court-wins-at-quiet-dona-ana-county-meeting/

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Lots of Chinese funded hysteria leading to local idiots protesting **** they know nothing about…

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Do you have a source of Chinese funding for Dona Ana County protests?

There is enough public record at this point. I am good with my perspective. You are free to breathe your own fairy dust.

Windy City Ag said:

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I want this to be the straw that breaks the Data Center back, it reads like a bad contract Oracle's legal team entered into and is now trying to modify.

From the coverage, Oracle would currently be on the hook for expenditures even if the plant is massively delayed in going live.

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I hate to break it to your liberal heart, but Data Centers aren't going away…I know you want that so bad, but they just aren't.

Hank the Grifter said:

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Honest question from an "old".
I keep seeing people saying they are "harnessing" AI to help their day to day routines.
What? How?
Can you give concrete examples AND how to leverage the AI to do those things?
My experience with AI is typing questions into ChatGPT.

*Edited to correct fat fingers/auto corrects*

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Hank, here's my AI evolution during the past 5 months.

Got access to Claude at the end of April and used it to search multiple internal corporate systems simultaneously.

Jira, Confluence, Salesforce and Slack.

A lot of our technical people don't document things well but there are breadcrumbs scattered across to these systems that can lead to getting an answer for a customer.

All of those tools have crappy internal search engines but Claude can search them better than I can.

Fast forward to last week. I'm now using Claude to search Salesforce and get order information and compare it against product information and figure out where our Salespeople are missing items from their quotes before the sale.

More specifically, I identified a post sales problem over 1 year ago but was told that it was too hard to figure out how to prevent it presale so just deal with it.

Last week in 45 minutes, I created such a report in Claude and gave it to the team that should have been doing the work.

And it is saved so I can run the report any time and get current data in less than 10 minutes. This would have taken hours if not days previously.

I have lived in New Mexico for over 30 years. I agree with you about having a "laid back" attitude and understand why that concerns people. Lived in Lincoln County many years and moved to Dona Ana County in 2019. Regarding Project Jupiter, many locals objected to how the County Commission handle the project getting approval. They claimed sufficient due diligence was lacking. I don't have much of opinion either way.

Dorm 15 said:

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I have lived in New Mexico for over 30 years. I agree with you about having a "laid back" attitude and understand why that concerns people. Lived in Lincoln County many years and moved to Dona Ana County in 2019. Regarding Project Jupiter, many locals objected to how the County Commission handle the project getting approval. They claimed sufficient due diligence was lacking. I don't have much of opinion either way.

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Yeah, I'm indifferent to the data center and it wouldn't surprise me if there were shenanigans to get it approved. Love living here; just baffled by the culture here. It's 180 of Texas.

flown-the-coop said:

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There is enough public recoat this point. I am good with my perspective. You are free to breathe your own fairy dust.

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So no source. As an aside, I'll opt for "fairy dust" over your "wacky tobaccy".

It's just pure comedy to read these dumb comparisons between AI and the dot com bubble. You do realize all of the .coms that went under NEVER made a dime vs AI that are printing money. Go ahead and doom and gloom AI, while smart people are retiring early.

Dungeon Crawler Carl said:

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Sure hope all those circular financing arrangements don't come back to haunt the AI Bros......

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Answer: no.

samurai_science said:

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5Amp said:

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A.I. rocks in my little world of fixing mechanical devices, I no longer need manuals or instructions. Can't imagine what it will be like with a robotic helping to install but it is coming sooner than later.

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Its setting up humanity to be ruled by those who control it, because Humans will turn over all thinking to it. Thats what is coming. You might be able to do the work without it, but in the future, humans wont. Thankfully I wont have to live in that world.

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We aren't going to have a choice. We aren't too far from it out-thinking us, so there will be things we won't be able to work on even if we wanted to.

It's a strange time right now. It's obvious that so many people are unaware of the tidal wave that is coming. Dario, the head of Anthropic, said this in early 2025 and got scoffed at by a lot of people based on where AI coding was at the time, and ended up being spot on.

Quote:

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" think we will be there in three to six months, where AI is writing 90% of the code. And then, in 12 months, we may be in a world where AI is writing essentially all of the code.

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AI isn't being overhyped, it is just waking up.

Quote:

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I hate to break it to your liberal heart, but Data Centers aren't going away…I know you want that so bad, but they just aren't.

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I never know what people are talking about on this board. This response has the usual very ignorant ad hominem structure that completely ignores the topic at hand. Try to focus on the discussion and not just attack others.

Back to the discussion, my personal worries over datacenters have nothing to do with politics and everything to do with likely capital misallocation by hyperscalers ala the telecom boom of the late 90s. From a financial markets, this whole industry has larger than should be comfortable asymmetric downside risk and that is what is causing this particular legal tussle.

I have the comfort of not having one go up near me, so I have nothing to complain about to the local pols.

A good read on the subject.

https://www.technologyreview.com/2026/09/15/1144028/ai-infrastructure-boom-investment-bubble-risk/

Quote:

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The results are eye-opening: The AI companies will need to increase their own productivity by a factor of 2.7 to break even by 2030, accounting for the cost of capital, a 15% return, and depreciation of the assets. Not impossible, says Wachter. The result would lead to the kind of economic growth that we saw during the US IT boom over a period of about 10 years starting in the mid-1990s. But, she says, for it to happen by 2030, "that's a lot of growth compressed into a few years." And if the hyperscalers cannot meet such profit goals?

"Then they will fall behind on their interest payments, and that risks bankruptcy," says Wachter, who was previously the SEC's chief economist and director of its division of economic and risk analysis. If a productivity boom "fails to materialize," she and her coauthor conclude in their research paper, "the current buildout will be the largest misallocation of capital in history."

It doesn't take superintelligence to realize that today's large investments in the infrastructure for artificial intelligence come with huge risks. The hyperscalers will spend about $750 billion this year, building massive data centers scattered across the country. And the spending spree shows no signs of slowing. According to some projections, total AI capital investments from the hyperscaler companiesAlphabet, Microsoft, Amazon, Meta, and Oracle (which partners with OpenAI)could be more than $5 trillion over the next four years.

To put it bluntly: The AI companies need to start making a lot more money. And they need to do it fast. But juicing their earnings alone still won't be enough to sustain their data-center investments for the long term.

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bobbranco said:

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LOL.

Oracle probably took the low bid and screwed themselves.

LOL.

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I can almost guarantee this happened.

OR

Oracle, in their internal estimation, vastly misunderstood what the price of goods and services are. When the real TIC Estimate hits from an experienced EPC, they are shocked.

It's almost always one of those two things in my experience. Owners are typically poor to terrible at estimating.

The section on hyperscaler financing and contractual commitments is especially relevant.

Quote:

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Take, for example, Meta's so-called Hyperion data center under construction in Richland, Louisiana. When the company announced the two gigawatts of compute capacity at a price tag of some $10 billion in late 2024 it was Meta's largest planned data center. Greeted with much enthusiasm by state and local politicians, the project, located in the rural northeast corner of the state, was seen as a boon to the community. Entergy Louisiana, the state's largest utility, rushed forward with proposals to build three large natural-gas power plants to service the massive data center.

Then last fallthe projected cost was now $30 billionthe financing got a lot more complex and, to some in the community, a lot more disconcerting. Meta transferred an 80% stake to the large (and troubled) private-credit firm Blue Owl Capital, forming a joint venture called Beignet (like the famed New Orleans pastry) to raise financing for the data center. Meta then signed a series of four-year leases with the joint venture, an arrangement that the company says gives it "long-term strategic flexibility." To backstop the agreement, Meta provides the venture with what is called a residual value guarantee, in which it will make a cash payment to cover the value of the facility "following any non-renewal or termination of a lease." Got all that?

I hope so. The financial wheeling and dealing is actually even more convoluted, with a cast of wholly owned subsidiaries and LLCs. Beignet has set up Laidley LLC, which owns and operates the site as the landlord. In turn, Laidley leases the facilities to Meta's wholly owned subsidiary Pelican Leap LLC, which is the tenant. And there is a series of four-year leases that cover the different buildings that make up the data center campus.

It's not a coincidence, says Van Nieuwerburgh, that the length of the leases matches the expected lifetime of the data center's GPUs. While Meta has to pay off its loan if it terminates the leases early, that will still leave its investors "with an empty building and no cash flow," he says. "And then they need to find a new tenant for a huge data center, and good luck with that."

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CDUB98 said:

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bobbranco said:

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LOL.

Oracle probably took the low bid and screwed themselves.

LOL.

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I can almost guarantee this happened.

OR

Oracle, in their internal estimation, vastly misunderstood what the price of goods and services are. When the real TIC Estimate hits from an experienced EPC, they are shocked.

It's almost always one of those two things in my experience. Owners are typically poor to terrible at estimating.

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You're not wrong but I'm also not entirely sure anyone could have guessed the what the true cost of all this buildout is currently going for. We're seeing lead times and cost increases for materials that we haven't seen since covid on critical components because of a combination of tariffs and data centers eating up all available supply. They're desperate for labor so they're paying absolutely stupid labor rates. I've got people that simply won't agree to do work in areas where data centers are being built because they know that half their employees will jump ship for a 50-100% raise. The amount of money tied up in this is absurd and completely distorting local markets (and unfortunately for the local economies, a huge portion of the money being spent is not staying local).

Hank the Grifter said:

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Honest question from an "old".
I keep seeing people saying they are "harnessing" AI to help their day to day routines.
What? How?
Can you give concrete examples AND how to leverage the AI to do those things?
My experience with AI is typing questions into ChatGPT.

*Edited to correct fat fingers/auto corrects*

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I have had it develop numerous python applications for me, complete with GUI interfaces.

I have had it create full project plans, complete with work breakdown structures and gantt charts for the entire project just by feeding it the project concept.

I've had it dig through grants and pull out all the relevant information for creating a grant proposal for submission.

I'm working on developing several patents and have had it do patent searching. I've also had it help develop my concept plans for submission to the university.

These are just a few things I've done.

Quote:

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It's just pure comedy to read these dumb comparisons between AI and the dot com bubble. You do realize all of the .coms that went under NEVER made a dime vs AI that are printing money. Go ahead and doom and gloom AI, while smart people are retiring early.

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A better comp is the telco industry of that same era. Lucent, Global Crossing, Worldcom, Nortel, Covad, Focal, Northstar, etc etc all became overleveraged and most went bankrupt in overbuilding telco capacity. .

Logos Stick said:

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Good thing Oracle is not "the AI".

I'll keep using AI to greatly enhance my productivity. I encourage the rest of you to avoid it.

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Funny. It is a fantastic tool but so is an automatic 7.62 machine gun. Its all about the application. Using a 7.62 to kill rabbits is not very efficient. Same attitude regarding AI. The clueless just see the Terminator.

AI has a zillion uses and China wants everyone in the US scared like the OP. People wanting to blindly ditch the tool of our age are the tools of the CCP- literately

Dorm 15 said:

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I have lived in New Mexico for over 30 years. I agree with you about having a "laid back" attitude and understand why that concerns people. Lived in Lincoln County many years and moved to Dona Ana County in 2019. Regarding Project Jupiter, many locals objected to how the County Commission handle the project getting approval. They claimed sufficient due diligence was lacking. I don't have much of opinion either way.

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And I'd bet dollars to donuts those people have zero clue as to what they think "due diligence" should be.

GeorgiAg said:

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FWTXAg said:

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AI isn't going to die. It's going to dominate and run our world two decades from now.

The faux economy and ponzi scheme we've propped up on the back of it with fake promises and name changes to Super Intelligence? Yes, that is going to die a quick, and very painful death. And soon.

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Two decades? We do not have that much time. This is happening now and the scary thing is it is accelerating.

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Georgia boy scared of AI. Sure be educated, be skeptical, but dont be blind.

Imagine China with AI and the US without now that is scary.

Hank the Grifter said:

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Honest question from an "old".
I keep seeing people saying they are "harnessing" AI to help their day to day routines.
What? How?
Can you give concrete examples AND how to leverage the AI to do those things?
My experience with AI is typing questions into ChatGPT.

*Edited to correct fat fingers/auto corrects*

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I am a fractional CFO and have a team of bookkeepers doing different things from basic payroll to complex revenue analysis. I get tons of system generated emails related to all kinds of things for different clients.

Every morning Claude goes into my email and does the following:
- Reviews system generated emails to identify where there's a problem we need to address versus things that are routine.
- Reviews my sent items from the prior day to identify things I said I would do and creates tasks in Asana for me that are tagged to that specific client.
- Reviews all AI meeting notes emails to identify commitments from those meetings and creates Asana tasks for me and anyone else on my team.
- Files AI notes and routine notifications so I don't have to do so.
- Surfaces all new emails and prioritizes tasks based on perceived urgency.
- Also creates an HTML that I open in my browser to refer to during the day. Basically an agenda for the day.

I'll post more later.