EFR said:

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Your responses make it very clear that you are not. But carry on, tell us more about how running a business works.
In college station minimum wage is obviously just the federal, BUT Taco Bell is paying $10+. If I can't at least match that I can't hire anyone. If your business plan is based on federal minimum wage or bust you have no business being there in the first place.

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So, what's the profit margin that is acceptable to you where businesses should get the right to exist?

Really? If I choose to pay myself a ridiculous amount then the business can't support it. If I continue to pay myself a reasonable amount the business remains financially stable.

The responses from people that have obviously never owned a business are amazing. Let's be honest, the business has to decide what profit margin makes it worth while. A common problem is that small business owners for some reason often seem to think they can survive on razor thin margins.
This case seems pretty obvious if you read anything besides the Twitter rage bait. Decent business, owner retires, business climate changes, new owner, it goes under.

I hope they all shut down or move out. Sometimes the people gotta feel what they vote for.

What I find funny is libs will tell a business to adapt or shutdown while screaming that we should take of worthless humans who won't work or have kids they can't afford or won't get a job that provides health insurance and we are all on the hook for bailing those POS individuals out.

EFR said:

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Really? If I choose to pay myself a ridiculous amount then the business can't support it. If I continue to pay myself a reasonable amount the business remains financially stable.

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You have no idea either way what was going on, but increases in min wag always lead to an increase in inflation.

EFR said:

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The responses from people that have obviously never owned a business are amazing. Let's be honest, the business has to decide what profit margin makes it worth while. A common problem is that small business owners for some reason often seem to think they can survive on razor thin margins.
This case seems pretty obvious if you read anything besides the Twitter rage bait. Decent business, owner retires, business climate changes, new owner, it goes under.

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Bolded is what the entire thread is about, having to pay employees more than they are worth.

Fair enough but it is no coincidence that blue cities and states that artificially drive up wages / minimum wage and stack ever more onerous regulation it is much more difficult to own and operate a (small) business profitably and the principals to pocket the ROI for their effort, energy, sweat equity and capital at risk.

Progressives are stupid. They literally don't see the cause and affect. Why at so many places do you have to order and pay at a kiosk, or check out your own groceries, why is there now one person making $60K to manage it all vs 4 making $20K part time to do the grunt work, etc.

The real minimum wage always has been and always will be $0.0. Any unbiased economic academic study ALWAYS shows that when minimum wages are raised (over some time, not just one incremental raise) the amount of workers goes down and the total $$ wages paid to min. wages goes down.

Economics in the real world always drives rationale decisions, results and outcomes. Outside forces beyond the control of the business impacting the economics (min. wages, regulations, taxes, tariffs) gets baked into the cake (COGS and OPEX) and if your product, service, customer base or target market can't absorb the changes needed for the business to maintain their margins, bottom line and ROI, well we see what happens.

EFR said:

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The responses from people that have obviously never owned a business are amazing. Let's be honest, the business has to decide what profit margin makes it worth while. A common problem is that small business owners for some reason often seem to think they can survive on razor thin margins.
This case seems pretty obvious if you read anything besides the Twitter rage bait. Decent business, owner retires, business climate changes, new owner, it goes under.

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Looks like at least partially a succession fail but no reason to hand wave "business climate changes" when it's also anti-business policy by a local left-wing government.

Minimum wage policy in left wing cities is a job and business killer. One of the most own goals there is.

javajaws said:

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Kaiser von Wilhelm said:

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EFR said:

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I don't agree with their local minimum wage, but it is $4 higher than the state. If that forced them into chapter 7 they were hanging by a thread to start with. I stand by this (as a business owner), if you can't afford to pay above minimum wage you really can't afford to be in business.

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With every full time employee, for every $1 in wages that translates to $2k per year. So that $4 difference is an $8k increase in expenses per employee. How many full timers would you guess per location? Let's just say 10. That's $80k per year, not even including all other employee-related expenses that are impacted by payroll, you have to magically come up with. Taking an 80k hit is NOT hanging on by a thread for a business. Plus, thats 80k in expenses, which means you have to bring in well over 80k in income unless you have a flat increase in sales to compensate, which is unreasonable. That is enough to go from stable to destroyed overnight. But hey, go ahead an judge something you don't understand, and be giddy about businesses failing while pointing ALL blame onto the business owners. As business were told in SF before min wage went from $10 to $15, people were pretty ok with lots of places literally being run out of business, because if they can't afford to pay a living wage (whatever that means) then they have no right to be in business. That's what they said. No RIGHT. They were told they deserve to lose everything. I'm not even exaggerating, as I was running a business in SF at the time, and it was unbelievable to witness just how anti-small business that city truly was. And how much envy and bitterness was spouted, and much of it was even by techies making over 200k per year. I guess google and apple are allowed to stay in business, since they paid a living wage...

I remember when they first implemented the rate hike in SF, there was a local bookstore I really loved. The owner flat out said that you can't increase book prices. It's literally written on the cover, and most people shop on amazon anyway, so there's no wiggle room to increase prices to compensate for the massive hike in wages he had to come up with. People like myself loved going there because it was a great place. So he instantly closed shop, since he had no way to stay in business due to the government dictating if he survives or not, as he had no ability to significantly increase income to pay for the huge mandated increases that skyrocketed his cost of doing business. Of course, that guy also publicly said that even though he was run out of town because of it, that he supported people being paid a living wage. Maybe that was only said in public so he wasn't literally run out of the city (which they do there), so he had to play nice with the locals to appease their required views. Honestly I would not have hid my vitriol for what they had done to ruin my entire livelihood just to make a bunch of hipster idiots not hate me. F em all. Such hateful and nasty people don't deserve to have a voice, and certainly should never dictate if I am allowed to continue my livelihood.

Seriously, how can some of you have no clue how the world works?

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Great post - but I don't think its so much that they are anti small business but rather they are anti-capitalism. Which is really odd because like you say even highly paid tech people act and vote the same way. Its very delusional thinking on their part and really shows the failure of going with feelings over facts that liberals cling to.

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I was actually thinking about this earlier this afternoon after I posted. I think progressives are pro small business EMPLOYEE, but aggressively and militantly anti small business owner. They actively despise people who make make money off the backs of the common folks, as they see it. We are abusers and enslavers. We are basically people with whips and the employees are being exploited and treated like indentured servants. So we get the support of the people as long as we stay in the shadows and do what they demand.

In their minds we have unlimited money in the bank account, so it is shocking that we'd go and make a bold faced lie saying we can't afford to increase the largest line item expense by 50% (which is what restaurants and such had to endure at that point, but at least since I only had one kid making MW it didn't really impact me). Hence why suddenly we had to serve ourselves when going to cafes and such, and pay with kiosks and iPads. All while increasing prices and changing tip lines to start at 20%. So we basically did half their job, but still were pressured to tip. Which is when the heavy handed tip pressuring really started taking off. Do less, get more.

Your last paragraph is baseless pap. The business climate didn't change. Daddy didn't just throw her in there to sink or swim. To believe that is absurd.

This was death by 1000 cuts and Seattle had the knife.

Based on your responses, I don't believe you've ever run a business.

Logos Stick said:

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He claims to be a business owner. LOL

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Good one.

Wait, are you being serious or funny?

Ag87H2O said:

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EFR said:

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I agree with you, but we have zero info about pricing or how much the owner was paying himself, so this is all just wild guesses.

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What difference does it matter what the owner pays himself? It's his business, he is taking the risk, spending his time and capital, and he get's to decide what he needs to make to be worth the time and effort. Profit is not a bad word. I imagine after 25 years, he wasn't in it for the practice or to play around the margins.

Evidently he did well enough for 25 years, until the government changed the ground rules and made it not worth the effort to keep going. This is exactly what happens when the government gets overly involved in pushing their left wing policies on otherwise successful enterprises. Everyone loses.

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From my experience in SF (which is basically the same as Seattle in this topic), if it's more than 0 then they are slave drivers and have no business having employees. These people literally believe that business owners exist to serve their staff, and that unless the employees aren't paid enough (whatever that means), then the owner should eat the difference. Even if that means being paid nothing.

I wish I was exaggerating...

EFR said:

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The responses from people that have obviously never owned a business are amazing. Let's be honest, the business has to decide what profit margin makes it worth while. A common problem is that small business owners for some reason often seem to think they can survive on razor thin margins.
This case seems pretty obvious if you read anything besides the Twitter rage bait. Decent business, owner retires, business climate changes, new owner, it goes under.

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Boy do I love irony.

samurai_science said:

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EFR said:

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Really? If I choose to pay myself a ridiculous amount then the business can't support it. If I continue to pay myself a reasonable amount the business remains financially stable.

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You have no idea either way what was going on, but increases in min wag always lead to an increase in inflation.

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The day after min wage increased all our local small restaurants and cafes increased their prices dramatically, and I was in a middle class part of the city. The sandwich place most of my staff went to had a sign posted that said "we apologize for the price increases, but due to changes outside our control we have no choice but to raise prices so that we can stay in business and continue to offer the same quality of food that our neighborhood deserves." $6 sandwiches when to $10+ literally overnight.

People who this was supposed to help could suddenly no longer afford to eat at these places even with 50% raises...

Kaiser von Wilhelm said:

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samurai_science said:

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EFR said:

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Really? If I choose to pay myself a ridiculous amount then the business can't support it. If I continue to pay myself a reasonable amount the business remains financially stable.

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You have no idea either way what was going on, but increases in min wag always lead to an increase in inflation.

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The day after min wage increased all our local small restaurants and cafes increased their prices dramatically, and I was in a middle class part of the city. The sandwich place most of my staff went to had a sign posted that said "we apologize for the price increases, but due to changes outside our control we have no choice but to raise prices so that we can stay in business and continue to offer the same quality of food that our neighborhood deserves." $6 sandwiches when to $10+ literally overnight.

People who this was supposed to help could suddenly no longer afford to eat at these places even with 50% raises...

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Bet.

I do live here. Go on. See my previous post.

RangerRick9211 said:

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Kaiser von Wilhelm said:

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samurai_science said:

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EFR said:

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Really? If I choose to pay myself a ridiculous amount then the business can't support it. If I continue to pay myself a reasonable amount the business remains financially stable.

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You have no idea either way what was going on, but increases in min wag always lead to an increase in inflation.

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The day after min wage increased all our local small restaurants and cafes increased their prices dramatically, and I was in a middle class part of the city. The sandwich place most of my staff went to had a sign posted that said "we apologize for the price increases, but due to changes outside our control we have no choice but to raise prices so that we can stay in business and continue to offer the same quality of food that our neighborhood deserves." $6 sandwiches when to $10+ literally overnight.

People who this was supposed to help could suddenly no longer afford to eat at these places even with 50% raises...

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Bet.

I do live here. Go on. See my previous post.

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Bet what? Was this meant for me or someone else?

When government raises the minimum wage for a labor-intensive business, it compresses margins for the business owner unless customers are willing to pay more to offset the labor increase (or if the owner can find labor efficiencies to offset the increase).

In some cases, customers will pay more or the owner finds efficiencies, and all is good. Peace on earth.

In others, the owner can't pass on all the cost but decides the remaining margin is "good enough" and stays in business.

In yet other cases, the owner can't pass on any of the increased labor, decides the margin isn't worth the effort, and closes shop.

The problem in liberal areas is they keep stacking on "demands" based on their perception of "fairness"... a "living wage", health insurance mandates, paid time off for maternity and paternity.... you name it. At some point, it simply becomes too much for the owner and they close. Which puts those workers in a worse position than if the libs had just stayed out of it.

Since this occurred in Seattle and not Oklahoma City, it's easy to connect the dots and put the blame squarely on lib policies. Sometimes things are exactly as they appear.

RangerRick9211 said:

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Kaiser von Wilhelm said:

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samurai_science said:

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EFR said:

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Really? If I choose to pay myself a ridiculous amount then the business can't support it. If I continue to pay myself a reasonable amount the business remains financially stable.

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You have no idea either way what was going on, but increases in min wag always lead to an increase in inflation.

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The day after min wage increased all our local small restaurants and cafes increased their prices dramatically, and I was in a middle class part of the city. The sandwich place most of my staff went to had a sign posted that said "we apologize for the price increases, but due to changes outside our control we have no choice but to raise prices so that we can stay in business and continue to offer the same quality of food that our neighborhood deserves." $6 sandwiches when to $10+ literally overnight.

People who this was supposed to help could suddenly no longer afford to eat at these places even with 50% raises...

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Bet.

I do live here. Go on. See my previous post.

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The post where you implied that daddy handed the wheel of the ship to the daughter, said good luck little girl and took a helicopter back to the land as he watched the ship capsize? That fictional post?

Yes, it's a concept called elasticity which the libs posting in here don't understand.

PED = ((Q2 - Q1) / Q1) / ((P2 - P1) / P1)

Logos Stick said:

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Yes, it's a concept called elasticity which the libs posting in here don't understand.

PED = ((Q2 - Q1) / Q1) / ((P2 - P1) / P1)

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For those not inclined to think in terms of formulas, it's called "common sense."

But the problem is, it's not that common. Especially with liberals.

Part of me is wondering, do some of the commies think the owner is supposed to just break even and not take any kind of an income? All the employees get paid what the commies think is "fair" and the person who runs and owns the business is supposed to take a 1.00 salary and be thankful to have a business? Or is 1.00 too much? I mean screw their family and their wellbeing right? Is it okay if the owner is able to put a roof over their family and maybe put food on the table? What about insurance for the owner and his family? What about clothing their family? Should they just not wear anything so the workers get their "fair" wage and insurance and benefits?

Good riddance Seattle. I hope the bagel business owning family somehow had something invested to leave that hell-hole.

I saw news stories at the time and mis remembered the date.

samurai_science said:

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EFR said:

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The responses from people that have obviously never owned a business are amazing. Let's be honest, the business has to decide what profit margin makes it worth while. A common problem is that small business owners for some reason often seem to think they can survive on razor thin margins.
This case seems pretty obvious if you read anything besides the Twitter rage bait. Decent business, owner retires, business climate changes, new owner, it goes under.

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Bolded is what the entire thread is about, having to pay employees more than they are worth.

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Exactly, but that will escape a liberal. No different than the government telling the bagel place they must pay five times what they have been paying for flour with which to make bagels. Or ten times what they have been paying for napkins, etc.

Old_Ag_91 said:

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Part of me is wondering, do some of the commies think the owner is supposed to just break even and not take any kind of an income? All the employees get paid what the commies think is "fair" and the person who runs and owns the business is supposed to take a 1.00 salary and be thankful to have a business? Or is 1.00 too much? I mean screw their family and their wellbeing right? Is it okay if the owner is able to put a roof over their family and maybe put food on the table? What about insurance for the owner and his family? What about clothing their family? Should they just not wear anything so the workers get their "fair" wage and insurance and benefits?

Good riddance Seattle. I hope the bagel business owning family somehow had something invested to leave that hell-hole.

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This is exactly what many out there think. From real world experience out west, businesses literally work for their employees in their minds. The owner is like an LLC. A pass-through entity.

What's funny is that my employees weren't bad like that. Well, some of those who applied were, but they were tossed aside easy enough. But for the most part, a lot of this attitude was from people who weren't even being paid minimum wage. That's why I used techies in my other post. The people making money think they're some sort of saviors and are looking out for the little guy against the big evil business owners. The people I hired were for the most part pretty realistic about things, except for a few examples. The highest paid employees were the demanding and entitled pains in the asses, but the ones working up from the bottom were relatively reasonable.

But in the end, the "saviors" end up being the cause of their undoing and screw them over left and right. Good intentions and all that...

When minimum wage for an entry level burger flipper is $21.30, the burger is no longer affordable.

Seattle's minimum wage explosion is killing business.

2010 $8.55
2011 $8.67
2012 $9.04
2013 $9.19
2014 $9.32
2015 $11.00
2016 $13.00
2017 $15.00
2018 $15.45
2019 $16.00
2020 $16.39
2021 $16.69
2022 $17.27
2023 $18.69
2024 $19.97
2025 $20.76
2026 $21.30

Lefties believe that flipping burgers should be a high paying career.

EFR said:

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Not for 25 years, after 25 years. Have you never seen a long term business go under? I am sure the Seattle stuff didn't help but my guess is they were barely hanging on or underwater to start with. It is always easier to blame the gubmint than admit your business failed.

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They were in business for 25 years
No problems. Making money.
Wages increased by the government 3x
Wages are the LARGEST cost to a small business like this. THE LARGEST.
Prices have to be raised to cover cost
Product became too expensive for public to buy
Business goes under

Yea, this is squarely on "gubmint". DUH!!

What world do people live in?

rocky the dog said:

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The story, if you are interested...

https://seattlered.com/seattle-red/jason-rantz-opinion/blazing-bagels-closing/4117229

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Yeah I am not sure why this hit the news this month after it happened back in December/March. From X post in chinese:

Quote:

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Blazing Bagels: 25-Year Entrepreneurial Legend Comes to an End!

For many of us coders working at Microsoft and other big tech companies, Blazing Bagels was practically a staple for company breakfasts and lunches.

Founder Dennis Ballen was originally an office supplies salesman.

After the internet bubble burst in 2000, he was laid off.

Rather than wallowing in unemployment, he pushed a homemade cart from business to business, selling bagels and cream cheese door-to-door.

As business picked up, he began studying the craft of authentic New York-style bagels and opened his first store in Redmond.

No one could have imagined that a laid-off salesman would go on to build one of the most successful local bagel brands in Seattle's Eastside.

Blazing Bagels at its peak:

Multiple stores in Bellevue, Redmond, Issaquah, Seattle, and beyond
Over 130 employees
Producing about 30,000 bagels daily
Products stocked in local chains like PCC
Wholesale business serving numerous cafs, restaurants, and corporate clients
Delivery vans crisscrossing the shores of SR-520 every day

For many Microsoft employees: Starbucks + Blazing Bagels was practically the most classic breakfast combo of the 2000s and early 2010s.

Back then, there weren't many places in Seattle that could truly nail New York-style bagels.
...

After the founder retired and handed the company to his daughter as CEO, it became the tipping point that broke the business.

By the end of 2025, Blazing Bagels shut down its wholesale operations.

Two weeks before Christmas, she abruptly laid off nearly 100 production staff overnight.

In March 2026, all stores closed, bankruptcy was filed, and the 25-year entrepreneurial legend officially ended.

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Not sure if all of that is accurate, but what a sad ending.

Him saying bet is the equivalent of a teenager saying nah-ah

RangerRick9211 said:

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I'm not reading this entire thread. But a point of clarification: there is no "he".

He retired last year and his daughter took over ownership. '13 UDub comm grad who was an event coordinator before dad roped her into his retirement plans.

A lot commentary and conjecture to summarize a terrible succession strategy.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/whitney-ballen?utm_source=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=member_ios

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She was with Blazing Bagels since 2015. Event coordinator looks like a side gig. She likely started serious training for the job in 2019.