Rapier108 said:

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Quote:

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Senate Democrats ended their workday Tuesday agonizing over what to do about the record-setting government shutdown. Many of those same lawmakers woke up Wednesday morning ready to fight on.

The sweeping Democratic gains in this week's elections bolstered the faction in the party insisting that senators dig in and force Republicans to accede to their demand for an extension of key health insurance subsidies used by more than 20 million Americans.

While a group of Democratic senators continued to negotiate with Republicans, the pressure that mounted on and off Capitol Hill Wednesday threatened to push the 36-day shutdown even further into record-setting territory.

Democratic Sen. Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut said ending the shutdown without a commitment from President Donald Trump and Speaker Mike Johnson would "be a betrayal of all we've been fighting to uphold."

"We are winning the hearts and minds of the American people," Blumenthal said. "We've come this far and the American people seem to be with us."

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https://www.politico.com/news/2025/11/05/democrats-shutdown-fight-elections-00638207

So now they've decided to continue the shutdown indefinitely because it helped them in the election.

The Republicans are going have two choices, give the Democrats everything they want, or nuke the filibuster and pass the CR.

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This has two assertions that are false: it had nothing to do with the election...they won blue states where they won in the last election...there is no change here. Republicans have minimally three choices....stick to their guns is the other option...and at the 60 day mark slash democrat pet programs dramatically. Deficit immediately goes down...markets bounce even more than they already have.

SociallyConditionedAg said:

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Keep real filibusters; nuke the 'gentlemanly' filibusters that require nothing more than a vote. If Senators actually had to drone on for days to delay a vote they might actually give in or negotiate.

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agreed - obstruction must come with a real cost.

My bold prediction government opens on Friday and Negotiations start

The CR in the senate expires in 3 weeks So they have 3 weeks to figure something out on ACA and other healthcare issues and make some demands on Trumps impounding funds like green energy projects and a few other issues

Seems likely there will be another shutdown about 12/15 but Snap money goes out for November and likely December everybody not getting paid gets paid for October and November

Lots of posturing to see who gets the blame for the December shutdown

Leave it shut down, I haven't even noticed it was.

Shut it down for 6 months.

Every year.

Make Congress Part-time Again.

Thune knows what lyes ahead, the nuke option is off the table.

Dims love them some bennies for scummy illegals.

Concerned Moderate Ag said:

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There's also an option in the middle where people act like adults and negotiate.

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It's already a CR of Biden era spending. It should be slahed if we want to fix our country, not negotiated even higher every few months.

amercer said:

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Ag with kids said:

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B-1 83 said:

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Concerned Moderate Ag said:

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There's also an option in the middle where people act like adults and negotiate.

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" Negotiate" on what? This is a previously passed BIDEN budget, with DEMOCRAT inspired funding stops. It's everything leftists asked for months ago. This is the middle.

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This.

And, this shows that the left is NEVER willing to "meet in the middle".

They ALWAYS want to force the negotiation WAY to the left.

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Counterpoint, if the republicans don't kill the filibuster they have to get some democratic votes to pass anything. What have they done to try to convince any of the democrats to vote with them?

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Counter-counter point.

This is the EXACT SAME BILL that the Democrats shoved down the Republicans' throat back in March...

Why do the DEMOCRATS not like their own bill anymore?

F2Aggie said:

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Trump and other Republicans should be on the nightly news using the media and speaking to the American people about what they are trying to do, and how the Democrats are fighting it.
But instead crickets.
Somehow Trump can use the media when campaigning but not while in office.

The tide will turn one day if they nuke the filibuster.

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They are on some newscasts, Newsmax, Fox. The MSM is blaming the Republicans and carrying the water of the Democratic Party leadership.
This is entirely a result of the Democratic Party leadership.

Ag with kids said:

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amercer said:

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Ag with kids said:

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B-1 83 said:

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Concerned Moderate Ag said:

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There's also an option in the middle where people act like adults and negotiate.

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" Negotiate" on what? This is a previously passed BIDEN budget, with DEMOCRAT inspired funding stops. It's everything leftists asked for months ago. This is the middle.

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This.

And, this shows that the left is NEVER willing to "meet in the middle".

They ALWAYS want to force the negotiation WAY to the left.

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Counterpoint, if the republicans don't kill the filibuster they have to get some democratic votes to pass anything. What have they done to try to convince any of the democrats to vote with them?

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Counter-counter point.

This is the EXACT SAME BILL that the Democrats shoved down the Republicans' throat back in March...

Why do the DEMOCRATS not like their own bill anymore?

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So the answer here is that the republicans have done nothing to convince any democrats to vote with them.

Which is fine, and what all on here want. Republicans control all three branches of government. They should figure out how to make it work by themselves.

amercer said:

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Ag with kids said:

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amercer said:

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Ag with kids said:

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B-1 83 said:

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Concerned Moderate Ag said:

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There's also an option in the middle where people act like adults and negotiate.

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" Negotiate" on what? This is a previously passed BIDEN budget, with DEMOCRAT inspired funding stops. It's everything leftists asked for months ago. This is the middle.

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This.

And, this shows that the left is NEVER willing to "meet in the middle".

They ALWAYS want to force the negotiation WAY to the left.

---

Counterpoint, if the republicans don't kill the filibuster they have to get some democratic votes to pass anything. What have they done to try to convince any of the democrats to vote with them?

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Counter-counter point.

This is the EXACT SAME BILL that the Democrats shoved down the Republicans' throat back in March...

Why do the DEMOCRATS not like their own bill anymore?

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So the answer here is that the republicans have done nothing to convince any democrats to vote with them.

Which is fine, and what all on here want. Republicans control all three branches of government. They should figure out how to make it work by themselves.

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What have the DEMOCRATS done to convince the Republicans to vote with THEM?

Hint: NOTHING

They DEMANDED the current bill in March.

Now they are DEMANDING that the Republicans give up MORE.

WTF have the DEMOCRATS conceded in these negotiations???

The democrats control nothing in the government. They don't need any republican votes for anything.

Republicans have been thrilled to run roughshod over the democrats al year and now are throwing a tantrum because none of the democrats will vote with them? Republicans own the whole government.

amercer said:

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Ag with kids said:

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amercer said:

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Ag with kids said:

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B-1 83 said:

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Concerned Moderate Ag said:

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There's also an option in the middle where people act like adults and negotiate.

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" Negotiate" on what? This is a previously passed BIDEN budget, with DEMOCRAT inspired funding stops. It's everything leftists asked for months ago. This is the middle.

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This.

And, this shows that the left is NEVER willing to "meet in the middle".

They ALWAYS want to force the negotiation WAY to the left.

---

Counterpoint, if the republicans don't kill the filibuster they have to get some democratic votes to pass anything. What have they done to try to convince any of the democrats to vote with them?

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Counter-counter point.

This is the EXACT SAME BILL that the Democrats shoved down the Republicans' throat back in March...

Why do the DEMOCRATS not like their own bill anymore?

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So the answer here is that the republicans have done nothing to convince any democrats to vote with them.

Which is fine, and what all on here want. Republicans control all three branches of government. They should figure out how to make it work by themselves.

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Liberalism really is a mental illness.

austinAG90 said:

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Democrats won in states they are supposed to. Nothing has changed but let them continue to think a shutdown helps with voters. Let's watch NYC go down in flames before Nov 26 and see what happens.

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Or literally the day after the election with car bombs.

amercer said:

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The democrats control nothing in the government. They don't need any republican votes for anything.

Republicans have been thrilled to run roughshod over the democrats al year and now are throwing a tantrum because none of the democrats will vote with them? Republicans own the whole government.

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Cool.

So, the Republicans don't need to care about the filibuster in the Senate.

Right? They can just ignore any attempts to vote for cloture.

Since the Democrats control NOTHING...

You're making a great argument for the Republicans to eliminate the filibuster.

That way, your argument will actually be correct....

amercer said:

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Ag with kids said:

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B-1 83 said:

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Concerned Moderate Ag said:

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There's also an option in the middle where people act like adults and negotiate.

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" Negotiate" on what? This is a previously passed BIDEN budget, with DEMOCRAT inspired funding stops. It's everything leftists asked for months ago. This is the middle.

---

This.

And, this shows that the left is NEVER willing to "meet in the middle".

They ALWAYS want to force the negotiation WAY to the left.

---

Counterpoint, if the republicans don't kill the filibuster they have to get some democratic votes to pass anything. What have they done to try to convince any of the democrats to vote with them?

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There are more democrats voting to end the shutdown with republicans than vice versa.

Ag with kids said:

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amercer said:

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The democrats control nothing in the government. They don't need any republican votes for anything.

Republicans have been thrilled to run roughshod over the democrats al year and now are throwing a tantrum because none of the democrats will vote with them? Republicans own the whole government.

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Cool.

So, the Republicans don't need to care about the filibuster in the Senate.

Right? They can just ignore any attempts to vote for cloture.

Since the Democrats control NOTHING...

You're making a great argument for the Republicans to eliminate the filibuster.

That way, your argument will actually be correct....

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There does come times when there is something to be said for going ahead and getting the benefits of what someone is going to constantly accuse you of anyway. The Left insists on controlling what happens even when clearly out of power while accusing the Republicans of all kinds of things. Maybe just become those things and win? That's the trap Trump is tempting. It might even be correct, but it doesn't seem correct now. If SC botches the VRA ruling, maybe then. Just chill a bit would say.

In this case though, still say no. The elections are over. Don't kill the main filibuster (yes, the gentlemen's one, the stupid no effort one, that should go at once. It never should have existed. The whole point was to see how far the zeal would go--was it equial to the task. Being able to just declare it and mail-in like Schumer does is an abomination.

I know my life has COMPLETELY changed since the shutdown. Oh wait, it hasn't

amercer said:

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The democrats control nothing in the government. They don't need any republican votes for anything.

Republicans have been thrilled to run roughshod over the democrats al year and now are throwing a tantrum because none of the democrats will vote with them? Republicans own the whole government.

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Roughshod?!? LoL. Passing a reconciliation bill is not running roughshod over anyone. Your boy Biden did it too. Remember the inflation reduction act that was actually just the green new deal *****!

Did you cry when they passed the big beautiful bill?! Waaaaa..... mean old Rs are using normal procedures to pass a bill and running roughshod over the Marxists I support.

Now that it's going to start affecting flights, I wonder who blinks first.

repubs backed themselves into a corner here. voters blame them for the shutdown more than the dems, so blaming dems and hoping public pressure forces them to roll over clearly isn't working. yielding on aca subsidies undermines the "never give an inch" strongman persona they're so desperate to project, so that's not an option. nuking the filibuster would be disastrous for them once dems regain control of government. no good options.

aezmvp said:

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Concerned Moderate Ag said:

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There's also an option in the middle where people act like adults and negotiate.

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Hmmm, correct me if I'm wrong but your side elected a man who fantasized about killing his political opponents and wished harm on their kids and won't disavow a candidate with an SS tattoo. None of your leadership backed away. At all. So exactly who negotiates? The Nazi loving people who want us dead? I'm sure those are the adults you're referring to.

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That dude who FANTISIZED about killing the children of a politician as leverage to make policy change who now will be Virginia's Attorney General. How F'd is that. Too many Washington DC wacko's live in Virginia and there are many that are out of work, or scared to death about losing there job…..that all voted democratic. Virginia was never going to be reach. Republican ran almost zero messaging to the citizens of Virginia. No fight, typical Republican's. How embarrassing to lose to the lot of folks that just won.

amercer said:

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The democrats control nothing in the government. They don't need any republican votes for anything.

Republicans have been thrilled to run roughshod over the democrats al year and now are throwing a tantrum because none of the democrats will vote with them? Republicans own the whole government.

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Again, this is a clean CR without any Republican spending or policy addition attached to it.

It is being held up by traditional Senate procedures abused in an eccentric and unethical manner by a habitually corrupt, amoral and unethical Democrat Party.

When procedural tradition is abused by those whose primary goal is to pursue suffering to advance a political objectives, it is time to reconsider the value of the tradition.

Old McDonald said:

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repubs backed themselves into a corner here. voters blame them for the shutdown more than the dems, so blaming dems and hoping public pressure forces them to roll over clearly isn't working. yielding on aca subsidies undermines the "never give an inch" strongman persona they're so desperate to project, so that's not an option. nuking the filibuster would be disastrous for them once dems regain control of government. no good options.

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And right on cue arrives the guy who said we would all be eating crow when we discovered Charlie Kirk's assassin was a conservative.

In blue states, Republicans will receive blame regardless of who actually abused procedure here.

The truth, as even the likes of Tapper and Cooper on CNN acknowledge, is that this is a Democrat Party-orchestrated abuse of Senate tradition done to advance election prospects rather than to accomplish policy goals.

Concerned Moderate Ag said:

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There's also an option in the middle where people act like adults and negotiate.

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That's like negotiating with your two year old because you wouldn't buy him a candy bar and he throws a fit in the store. All it will lead to is more tantrums in the future.

Old McDonald said:

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repubs backed themselves into a corner here. voters blame them for the shutdown more than the dems, so blaming dems and hoping public pressure forces them to roll over clearly isn't working. yielding on aca subsidies undermines the "never give an inch" strongman persona they're so desperate to project, so that's not an option. nuking the filibuster would be disastrous for them once dems regain control of government. no good options.

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What are you basing this on. Some dem states that voted Dems back in. I really think the country knows who is causing this shutdown. If they are blaming republicans it's because they think they should cave and just give the child what it wants. That's the only way you could blame republicans.

It's now time. I was originally against nuking the filibuster, but it's now time. They'll do it anyway when they have the chance so we might as well.

The D said:

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Concerned Moderate Ag said:

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There's also an option in the middle where people act like adults and negotiate.

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There are no adults on one side.

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This. You can't negotiate with the left. They're pure evil.

Ag with kids said:

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amercer said:

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Ag with kids said:

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B-1 83 said:

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Concerned Moderate Ag said:

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There's also an option in the middle where people act like adults and negotiate.

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" Negotiate" on what? This is a previously passed BIDEN budget, with DEMOCRAT inspired funding stops. It's everything leftists asked for months ago. This is the middle.

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This.

And, this shows that the left is NEVER willing to "meet in the middle".

They ALWAYS want to force the negotiation WAY to the left.

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Counter-counter point.

This is the EXACT SAME BILL that the Democrats shoved down the Republicans' throat back in March...

Why do the DEMOCRATS not like their own bill anymore?

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A few points
The Ds didn't force anything down the Rs throat in March SOTH and Majority leader put forth this bill while they hammered out the BBB and enough Ds agreed and it passed

This CR included cuts from BBB so it is not a strict continuation of Biden's last Budget which is why things like the ACA Covid subsidies and Medicaid cuts will happen under this " Clean CR "

Of course the Rs if they had gotten all the appropriations bills passed by October 1 at those are not subject to cloture rules
It was only a few months ago the BBB was passed ( technically it was a budget bill ) and it was not subject to cloture/filibuster rules

SociallyConditionedAg said:

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Keep real filibusters; nuke the 'gentlemanly' filibusters that require nothing more than a vote. If Senators actually had to drone on for days to delay a vote they might actually give in or negotiate.

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A filibuster isn't even in the equation as there is no need for one because the Senate doesn't have 60 votes to pass cloture.

BTKAG97 said:

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SociallyConditionedAg said:

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Keep real filibusters; nuke the 'gentlemanly' filibusters that require nothing more than a vote. If Senators actually had to drone on for days to delay a vote they might actually give in or negotiate.

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A filibuster isn't even in the equation as there is no need for one because the Senate doesn't have 60 votes to pass cloture.

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That's because of the filibuster rule.

Nuke it

amercer said:

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Republicans ... are throwing a tantrum because none of the democrats will vote with them?

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You and I live in 2 very different realities. Thre only people throwing tantrums are Democrats.

Concerned Moderate Ag said:

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There's also an option in the middle where people act like adults and negotiate.

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Democrats want to destroy the social, moral, and economic foundations of this country. How do you negotiate with that?

Logos Stick said:

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BTKAG97 said:

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SociallyConditionedAg said:

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Keep real filibusters; nuke the 'gentlemanly' filibusters that require nothing more than a vote. If Senators actually had to drone on for days to delay a vote they might actually give in or negotiate.

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A filibuster isn't even in the equation as there is no need for one because the Senate doesn't have 60 votes to pass cloture.

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That's because of the filibuster rule.

Nuke it

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Cloture and Filibuster are 2 completely different things.

The filibuster only comes into play if there are enough votes to end cloture. If you want to nuke something then nuke cloture. The filibuster would be easy to deal with after that if the Republicans actually made the Democrats stand up at the podium and make them lose their voices.

ADDED: The point I'm trying to make is that it is dumb to require 60 votes for cloture. A filibuster shouldn't require a vote to be ended as that removes the need for an actual filibuster. If a Senator wants to filibuster then they need to go before the Senate and talk until they no longer have a voice.