ToddyHill said:

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Coal is not cheaper but when you remove the coal baseload capacity and replace it with spurious capacity of solar and wind...prices will go up unquestionably.

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Our electricity is produced by TVA. This month we'll pay 11.7 cents per kilowatt hour, up about a penny from a year ago. Generally speaking, when the price of natural gas goes up, it's reflected in the cost of electricity (at least that's been my take).

That said, TVA tends to make decisions that appear to be driven by those who operate a bit left of center. For example, they closed Bull Run, a functioning coal fired plant in 2023. This past summer, TVA issued alerts regarding the power strain on their system, which I thought ironic given the closure of Bull Run. Any chance of re-opening it were ending this past July when they blew up the smokestack.

I do think data centers might become an issue at some point, but it appears to me these data centers know up front they need to address their needs for power.

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But why would they close capacity if they're so far behind? I guess they think y'all love high power prices!

Dan Scott said:

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The USA is an energy producing juggernaut. The margin between produced energy and consumption in 2024 was widest ever.

The blame is going to data centers. And this pisses me off because another example of how Americans as a whole are getting squeezed at the benefit of a few. Taxpayers subsidize these things, shareholders getting rich from AI boom and job replacement, Americans paying higher energy costs and live with growing fear of losing their jobs.

Back from Japan after a couple months. ChatGPT is banned there. Maybe we need to tell these tech companies to slow the F down and as a society we actually study if it's best to proceed as we are especially if we are going to subsidize. I'm getting tired of the usual talking point that "if you don't do this, you'll fall behind China and lose jobs" STFU, we're already losing jobs and US infrastructure is **** compared to Asia.

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According to you, what is a fair price?

Dan Scott said:

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The USA is an energy producing juggernaut. The margin between produced energy and consumption in 2024 was widest ever.

The blame is going to data centers. And this pisses me off because another example of how Americans as a whole are getting squeezed at the benefit of a few. Taxpayers subsidize these things, shareholders getting rich from AI boom and job replacement, Americans paying higher energy costs and live with growing fear of losing their jobs.

Back from Japan after a couple months. ChatGPT is banned there. Maybe we need to tell these tech companies to slow the F down and as a society we actually study if it's best to proceed as we are especially if we are going to subsidize. I'm getting tired of the usual talking point that "if you don't do this, you'll fall behind China and lose jobs" STFU, we're already losing jobs and US infrastructure is **** compared to Asia.

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If you believe data centers are making people rich, you are correct. But why not invest in the dozens of companies that are booming.

You are incorrect in your assumption that data centers are the problem, they are actually helping build out a more reliable and larger grid infrastructure. So you could "double dip" by making a killing on their stocks.

Sims said:

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YouBet said:

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Some of us are now more concerned about even having water this time next year...in the USA. We've committed suicide down here in Corpus by killing the only option we had to get water (aside from God granting us biblical rain) where...coincidentally....50% of US oil exports originate.

I'm guessing you will be hearing more about our plight at some point next year when ~500K people in the area can no longer get water and major O&G industry starts shutting down and leaving.

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But datacenters...

Seriously though, Corpus is a sad situation. Shoots down a desal plant with an infinite supply of water at its doorstep in favor of pumping ground water from other parts of the state - that likely have a replenish rate in the 100s of years rather than instantaneous.

They shot it down over budget concerns when the projection was the average household purchases would see bill increases of 10 - 15 dollars per month. Even if it was 5x that much, I'm sure they would be happy to have a reliable source of water.

Wild.

Just to tie my thoughts together...

A leading opponent of coal fired power generation and also one of the most vocal, and highest spending, opponents of the Corpus Inner Harbor Desal plant, was the Sierra Club.

The degrowth movement is a primary force against raised standards of living in the US.

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Same bunch killed the pet-coke power plant. ChYna is burning it now…..

See my post about California above. Left wing dumbasses will shut down up until the point of no return then they will panic and try to reverse course.

Also see Germany.

Ability to add energy to the grid is a bigger problem than the data centers themselves. Ability to construct behind the meter energy generation is a bigger issue than the data centers.

"We don't have enough electricity to do what we want." Should never be a statement uttered in the United States.

Wow, that's crazy! Thanks for sharing that graph.

I know Google and Microsoft are both working on making nuke plants. It'd be in everyone's best interest and provides some political capital to actually start making real progress in generation.

The chart op posted is similar to many other commodities from 1980. I think a new pickup or suburban was about 12,000 in 1980. So 4 or 5x today is about right from 1980 prices. Wages are probably 4x also.

I did see regular gasoline for 2.13 per gallon today so Thank Donald J. Trump for that. And for many other things.
Thankfully Xiden and his Clowns are no longer running our country.

Make America Great Again!!