Job postings for entry-level roles requiring degrees have dropped nearly two-thirds in the UK and 43% in the US since ChatGPT launched in 2022. Including everything (not just programming, etc.)

Paywalled - Financial Times. Sorry, could not find a more "open" link.
https://www.ft.com/content/99b6acb7-a079-4f57-a7bd-8317c1fbb728

The research presumes it is a combination of AI, corrections for Covid-era excesses, increased offshoring, and reduced venture capital funding.

AI and offshoring both have increasing momentum.

Vance seems to be getting it, sort of. Yesterday, he implied that Intel was playing dirty increasing offshoring while laying off 15%. https://www.newsweek.com/jd-vance-issues-warning-h1-b-visa-immigration-2103296

The bigger point is that there is no shortage of Amercan tech talent, and the whole rationale for H1B's has been destroyed for 99% of H1B positions.

More American kids and grandkids will not be starting their professional lives, not growing up, and not having their own kids.

also failed by woke academia

I can't imagine coming out of college into the workforce today. All these kids are going to be competing against AI. I'm glad I'm on the back hill slide of my career, and trying to figure out wtf to steer my kids towards before they hit college age. Terrified for them.

Or could it be they have a metric ****ton of Muslim immigrants soaking up those jobs?

cmag said:

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I can't imagine coming out of college into the workforce today. All these kids are going to be competing against AI. I'm glad I'm on the back hill slide of my career, and trying to figure out wtf to steer my kids towards before they hit college age. Terrified for them.

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Frankly, don't see how college is a good investment anymore.

agwrestler said:

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Or could it be they have a metric ****ton of Muslim immigrants soaking up those jobs?

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yeah...I'm thinking AI is just a correlation.

All the more reason for high school graduates to consider a skilled labor or technical trade. There is tons of demand in many areas, especially where retirements are starting to hit. Someone with the knowledge and a few years experience that has any ambition can own their own business and be making six figures in a relatively short timeframe.

cmag said:

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I can't imagine coming out of college into the workforce today. All these kids are going to be competing against AI. I'm glad I'm on the back hill slide of my career, and trying to figure out wtf to steer my kids towards before they hit college age. Terrified for them.

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Geoffrey Hinton says learn to plumb.

cmag said:

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I can't imagine coming out of college into the workforce today. All these kids are going to be competing against AI. I'm glad I'm on the back hill slide of my career, and trying to figure out wtf to steer my kids towards before they hit college age. Terrified for them.

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No way.

There is more money to be made than ever before. You just have to make an expectations adjustment. We used to go to college and work our way up the ranks. Hell my degree is in POLS and I have spent most of my career in retail management. You could get a degree in anything and just enter the workforce one step ahead. That's over. But tradesmen make a LOT more money today than ever before. I have a buddy that is an electrician. He has about 15 guys working for him and he has made millions. He makes more money than our CEO and shaves maybe once a week.

Plumber or electrician is where it's at. More specifically, blue collar with leadership skills.

Companies need to start getting disincentivized for offshoring and replacing so many American workers.

You cannot have a functioning society with large amounts of indebted people with no hope of gainful employment and no way to advance, pay off their debt, or even earn a living. This system will crash. They will likely blame capitalism, and they'd be partially right.

Whip these companies in line or don't be surprised to see more Luigi copycats and other violence. I'm even more concerned about civil unrest by people that have nothing else to lose.

They don't want to work on the heat.
Trades sound good until you're working under a house, or in the attic in July.

cmag said:

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I can't imagine coming out of college into the workforce today. All these kids are going to be competing against AI. I'm glad I'm on the back hill slide of my career, and trying to figure out wtf to steer my kids towards before they hit college age. Terrified for them.

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If they are boys, I'd steer them to trade school. The payoff seems better, in this day and age, and for much cheaper.

Globalism...ain't it great?

RikkiTikkaTagem said:

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cmag said:

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I can't imagine coming out of college into the workforce today. All these kids are going to be competing against AI. I'm glad I'm on the back hill slide of my career, and trying to figure out wtf to steer my kids towards before they hit college age. Terrified for them.

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Frankly, don't see how college is a good investment anymore.

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I generally agree with this. 99% of classes I took for my degree were useless in my profession; however, every company I've ever worked for won't hire anyone without a degree so it's a barrier to entry.

I agree with you though. College itself is a terrible investment that taught me very little useful information. It opened many doors though.

RikkiTikkaTagem said:

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cmag said:

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I can't imagine coming out of college into the workforce today. All these kids are going to be competing against AI. I'm glad I'm on the back hill slide of my career, and trying to figure out wtf to steer my kids towards before they hit college age. Terrified for them.

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Frankly, don't see how college is a good investment anymore.

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It is with the right degree. A friend of mine had a problem with carpenter ants. Being an entomologist, I told him what he needed to do.

However, he called a very well known pest control company and they came over and gave him an estimate as to how much it would cost to get rid of them. After he gasped at the $9000 estimate, he decided to take my advice.

As long as there are squirrels in the attic ($200-$500 removal charge) or any type of bug problem, people will pay, most have no choice.

agsalaska said:

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cmag said:

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I can't imagine coming out of college into the workforce today. All these kids are going to be competing against AI. I'm glad I'm on the back hill slide of my career, and trying to figure out wtf to steer my kids towards before they hit college age. Terrified for them.

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No way.

There is more money to be made than ever before. You just have to make an expectations adjustment. We used to go to college and work our way up the ranks. Hell my degree is in POLS and I have spent most of my career in retail management. You could get a degree in anything and just enter the workforce one step ahead. That's over. But tradesmen make a LOT more money today than ever before. I have a buddy that is an electrician. He has about 15 guys working for him and he has made millions. He makes more money than our CEO and shaves maybe once a week.

Plumber or electrician is where it's at. More specifically, blue collar with leadership skills.

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The key is adjusting that is for sure. My eldest graduates from A&M Galveston next month and he did Maritime Transportation. He had to give up his Summers to do Sea Terms and his career will mean he's gone half the time. He's got multiple 6 figure offers he is deciding between and tremendous job security for the forseeable future. Unless AI gets to the point where ships are completely unmanned with no humans aboard he's going to do very well for a very long time. While he was in HS he also got welding certified and he has a lot of skills. He worked part time on charter fishing vessels as well on the weekends.

Other son graduated from HS and has a full ride to study Biomedical Engineering. He worked 2 Summers as an Auto Mechanic (started off sweeping the shop and doing any grunt job they could dream up). He learned how to operate just about any shop tool in robotics and landed an internship this Summer working for a Med Device company working on their CNC mill, routers, and laser cutters. He also makes some side money using his drone for construction companies helping them to survey sites.

There are tons of small business endeavors kids can get into (and I'm not even talking about all the easy money from social media and influencers). You just have to hustle and work. There is so much information out there that's easily available to people now as well about how to do just about anything. It's not on a sliver platter but the opportunities are there.

Problem is that the natural tendency of people is to look for easy buttons. They want to be able to study what they want, work when and where they want, not bother saving or investing, not take risks, and yet they want all the benefits of those who do those things. That's not new to this generation btw, the difference is the information age has made it easier to succeed and also easier to be lazy more than ever. If you follow the herd and don't take responsibility for your choices though it's not likely going to turn out well for you though. You can be a sheep or a wolf, it's just most people make that choice by default.

A bunch of DEI types were stripping college requirements years ago. The college credential is a proportionally greater barrier to the 'desired minorities' so they were inserting "or 7 years of related work experience" behind the college credentials for office jobs. Not sure it helped, but once again: politics makes for strange bedfellows.

We'll get back to the point where someone who can make a sandwich will be able to command a living wage.

There are PLENTY of jobs out there. They're just going to non-citizens on work visas because it puts a few more bucks in shareholder and exec pockets.

Im sure somehow this is all the boomers fault in the minds of certain whiny *****es on Texags.

In the meantime, i have three in high school trying to figure out what career paths are going to thrive in the future. One is interested in construction science and i feel like thats pretty safe given that Houston is projected to double in size over his remaining lifespan. I have another interested in computer science and i am uneasy about that. I keep reading about a glut of CS grads. My youngest would make a good lawyer but I fear the legal profession is going to shrink.

Offshoring is a huge issue, often overlooked for American workers.

RikkiTikkaTagem said:

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cmag said:

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I can't imagine coming out of college into the workforce today. All these kids are going to be competing against AI. I'm glad I'm on the back hill slide of my career, and trying to figure out wtf to steer my kids towards before they hit college age. Terrified for them.

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Frankly, don't see how college is a good investment anymore.

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Everyday I'm reminded that I (and most of us here) really hit the sweet spot in world history/location. lucky lucky

RikkiTikkaTagem said:

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cmag said:

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I can't imagine coming out of college into the workforce today. All these kids are going to be competing against AI. I'm glad I'm on the back hill slide of my career, and trying to figure out wtf to steer my kids towards before they hit college age. Terrified for them.

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Frankly, don't see how college is a good investment anymore.

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Just because a lot of stocks fail, doesn't mean the stock market is a bad investment.


Like selecting any investment, make smart choices.

I'm just glad I grew up in a time where delusional admission boards didn't expect 16 year-olds to have fully formed career paths in mind and weren't trying to shirk the burden of helping students discover their talents and ambitions AFTER they arrived on campus. Most highly selective colleges today are looking to admit finished products upon whom they can simply place their university seal and send them out to become wealthy donors. Minimal actual education going on in such schools.

At A&M in the 80's they let lots of kids in and patiently helped them as they worked out their future paths, tried different classes and often changed majors midstream. I switched my Junior year from Accounting to Architecture (previously called Environmental Design). All of that came in handy down the road for me in my future career. The state made their money back on me many times over by now. Same for untold numbers of others. I'm not sure you could do that today.

I am seeing this at my company. We have one of the more robust AI offerings for a non traditional tech company that is is tech adjacent. I worry about the long term impacts of having a senior tech guy just monitoring the work of AI that used to be done by junior coders. I worry we are chasing short term gains that will eventually lead to a hollowing out of the knowledge base.

And when it isn't AI, it is India. Doubled India employees in the year I have been there.

Had lunch with a consultant the other day and they were really pushing their team in India as cheaper and harder working. They said having a team in India allows them to undercut every other consultant in the space. It kinda turned me off to be honest.

How about learn a trade instead of a 4yr degree in sociology.

I have more rich tradesman friends than white collar worker friends these days and I'm a Millennial.

cmag said:

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I can't imagine coming out of college into the workforce today. All these kids are going to be competing against AI. I'm glad I'm on the back hill slide of my career, and trying to figure out wtf to steer my kids towards before they hit college age. Terrified for them.

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You know.. AI cannot snake a drain, replace an air conditioner or run an electrical cable. All good jobs that pay the same or more than many "professional" careers.

We need to reduce some college degree pathways and increase (fund) STEM pathways at every major university.

We need to introduce a two year vo-tech programs at all community colleges.

Learn to plumb or weld.

Or go to truck driving school. It would be nice to up the quality of those in the transportation industry we have to share the roads with.

Tramp96 said:

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Learn to plumb or weld.

Or go to truck driving school. It would be nice to up the quality of those in the transportation industry we have to share the roads with.

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"Maybe I could be a truck driver. Mav, do you have the number of that truck driving school we saw on TV? Truck Masters, I think it was? I think I'm gonna need that"

Was a popular joke/quote in my grad school study group.

I can't believe that the example for a must have degree on this thread was an entomologist and no one said anything.

Kyle Field Shade Chaser said:

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Offshoring is a huge issue, often overlooked for American workers.

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Return to office policies and simultaneously offshoring.

I can remember tail end of Carter's years. Steel mill was full of guys with degrees. Construction was same. Pulled reserve duty at Ft Hood, lots of really green speedy fours had degrees and used their education for quick rank. When a kid says " I am not doing that", we coddle them instead of telling them to get your ass out there and find some work.
It can be done. May not be what kid wants, but crap, so much better in today's world, because now, you can pick up phone and look at jobs, whereas we had to find by word of mouth, sending in resumes.
And I don't get this turning down a job far off, because you don't want to move your family. Lol. If pioneers had that attitude, the USA would stop at Mississippi River.

Agzonfire said:

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I can't believe that the example for a must have degree on this thread was an entomologist and no one said anything.

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A good friend of mine has a PhD in Entomology and is a professor at Miss St.

I can't even remember if entomology is plants, bugs, or ear/nose/throat