When you're a communist at heart.

Or when you're far more interested in living in fantasy land than the real world, haven't bothered to ever pick up a book on actual history, or even tried to understand human nature. Tyrants have been with us since the beginning of time. If left unchecked, tyrants will wreak havoc upon society - and it's not like we don't have many, many examples of this, even from within the last 100 years.

Most Democrats I would classify as useful idiots easily swayed by the propaganda they see online and in the so-called media.

MouthBQ98 said:

---

It's an easy claim to moral superiority and virtue but on the backs of other people. They get to feel self righteous and sanctimonious over "helping" one group at the involuntary expense of another group, with minimal personal cost and effort. Modern socialism is almost universally selfish, narcissistic, and is often spiteful as well.

---

And this is the key. Leftists are too gutless/selfish to sacrifice their own personal interests for their favored cause. They want government to force everyone to be involved.

Yep, it is basically this;

1. I want moral credit for the intention of "helping" someone regardless of outcome.
+2. I want to invest minimal personal time and effort to accomplish this.
=3. Socialism: use other people's resources with the power of the state

OR

1. I want more stuff than I currently have
+2. I don't want to expend the effort and make the sacrifices required to obtain it myself
=3. Socialism. Use the power of the state to take wealth from others and grant it to myself

So much hyperbole in this thread. Do y'all just base your views on everything that you read on the interwebs or do you get out and actually talk to real people with differing opinions?

Edit: Yes there are crazies out there. But they are not the majority.

dmart90 said:

---

People who have a different belief system then me must be idiots!

---

Nice strawman.

Also, its "than", not "then". Use "than" for comparisons.

Logos Stick said:

---

dmart90 said:

---

People who have a different belief system then me must be idiots!

---

Nice strawman.

Also, its "than", not "then". Use "than" for comparisons.

---

Is not a strawman. That's exactly what people are claiming.

And thanks for catching my typo!

I've been on this planet almost 50 years. I've talked to a lot of people and read and learned quite a bit, I'm not sure who you are generalizing about, but I am going to imagine most of the people here are higher IQ, well educated, have expertise in one or more fields of work, and are pretty well informed on a variety of matters if they have a particular interest in politics. There will be exceptions to that generality of course, but I don't think it is reasonable to assume that many of the people here are naive or poorly informed. Confirmation biased is possible, as we are all human.

dmart90 said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

dmart90 said:

---

People who have a different belief system then me must be idiots!

---

Nice strawman.

Also, its "than", not "then". Use "than" for comparisons.

---

Is not a strawman. That's exactly what people are claiming.

And thanks for catching my typo!

---

It's the very definition of a strawman.

Almost 60 here. I generally agree. But the vitriol shown for people with differing political opinions has ratcheted up. Social media has made it so much worse. It's easy to demonize the "other side" when the village idiots have a loud voice. One example of an extreme view becomes representative of the other side. It's disturbing and unfounded.

Intelligent people seek out dissenting opinions to challenge themselves and their views. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see much of that in the comments in this thread. I see bunch of names calling and generalizations.

dmart90 said:

---

Sh****SLC said:

---

dmart90 said:

---

People who have a different belief system then me must be idiots!

Come on.

And no, I'm not a liberal. But it's OK that different people believe in different things. It's kind of how the world works...

---

Not when those said people were championing taking American kids away because of a needle in the arm. Come on dude! Just an ignorant response to whats been going on the last 8 years. The people you're talking about were ready to put Americans in camps for going to church. Most level thinking people remember history. You would have been one of the Germans that claimed they had no idea of the camps when the Americans showed up.

---

I work in tech. It's full of liberals. Not a single person I know believed any of that.

---

That's great but the people they support definitely did. This was a mainstream idea for that party in 2020. Trump supporters needed reeducation. People refusing the vax should lose their children. Both of those were said publicly by Dems in Congress. AOC said the one about reeducation and she's going to be on the stage in 2027 when they start figuring out who's the tallest midget for 2028. Yes the Republicans have their idiots in people like MTG but there's nobody on the Republican side of Congress advocating for reeducation camps for Democrats where we would teach them basic economics or taking away kids because their parents took them to drag shows. That's simply not how conservatives think. It is apparently how liberals think.

I guess the real point is if they don't believe in the things their party espouses why are they voting for them? Look at people like Bret Weinstein who has publicly rebuked the Democrats as being extreme in the censorship efforts among other things.

dmart90 said:

---

Almost 60 here. I generally agree. But the vitriol shown for people with differing political opinions has ratcheted up. Social media has made it so much worse. It's easy to demonize the "other side" when the village idiots have a loud voice. One example of an extreme view becomes representative of the other side. It's disturbing and unfounded.

Intelligent people seek out dissenting opinions to challenge themselves and their views. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see much of that in the comments in this thread. I see bunch of names calling and generalizations.

---

Agree with all of this. The difference I see is that the extreme positions on the left are held by party leadership while the ones on the right are held by talking heads. Like I said a minute ago nobody on the right is talking about camps where we would teach liberals basic economics, for example. That would be an extreme position but it mirrors AOC and a sizeable portion of Democrat leadership.

If you have soaked in a lot of the political 'tribal' culture war mindset where the world has been simplified to an 'us versus them'...then you'll be someone who has a very difficult time understanding how someone could vote for a candidate in the other political party.

The group of people who would be considered 'moderate' liberals or conservatives, some of which classify themselves politically as 'independent'...sure, they could vote either way depending on the candidates to choose from.

Possibly, but I don't speak for others. I just observe that most non-politician Democrats I have met seem to have good intentions typically regarding one or a few issues of focus, but they are poorly informed, and overly emotional in general regarding solutions they propose, and they are very willing to allocate collective resources to well intentioned but poorly reasoned solutions that often have done very negative unintended consequences. And they often get hostile or upset when the flaws in their reasonings are matter of factly pointed out, so I tend to avoid these conversations as unproductive and harmful to personal relationships that are otherwise fine.

I seldom talk politics with left leaning friends and relatives. I will listen to them, however, as it is interesting to understand what they know and believe and support.

"How can you be a modern day democrat?"

Learn how to lie and gaslight, and be very comfortable with the suspension of reality.

dmart90 said:

---

Almost 60 here. I generally agree. But the vitriol shown for people with differing political opinions has ratcheted up. Social media has made it so much worse. It's easy to demonize the "other side" when the village idiots have a loud voice. One example of an extreme view becomes representative of the other side. It's disturbing and unfounded.

Intelligent people seek out dissenting opinions to challenge themselves and their views. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see much of that in the comments in this thread. I see bunch of names calling and generalizations.

---

You continue to argue against your strawman. It's not "people with different belief system than me are idiots".

It's very specific beliefs, not simply a "different belief system". Also, what does that even mean? "belief system"? You make it sound like we have some sort of AI system inside our brain that controls what we believe about anything that might come up. People are individuals, they are not controlled by some "system". Here is a partial list of the accepted truths for modern day Dems:

men can get pregnant,
a 4 year old can decide to be a different gender,
Marxism is not a failed socioeconomic system,
there are 50 genders,
anti-white discrimination is a good thing and required to right past wrongs,
allowing shoplifting for anything less than $900 is not a crime,
opening the border to 3rd world people is a righteous cause,
trans females are females,
trans females (aka men) have no advantage over regular females and should be allowed to compete against females in sports


The list of idiocy is quite long!

Modern day democrats are quite literally ******ed!

MouthBQ98 said:

---

but they are poorly informed, and overly emotional in general regarding solutions they propose, and they are very willing to allocate collective resources to well intentioned but poorly reasoned solutions

---

There are plenty of examples on both side of the political spectrum. You essentially described how aliens would probably describe the entire human species.

I think many of them want to feel or believe they are virtuous and have good intentions and are more or less willfully naive when they advocate and act. They want to help categories of people they believe need help in ways that their dogma tells them will get them help.

BUT…

I also do often pick up overtones of spite and resentment and sometimes even malice towards anyone they perceive as an antagonist or obstruction to actions they advocate and support. I don't get the sense it is viewed as disagreement on means, but more often perceived as malicious and thus is it met with hostility. This manifests itself in political discussions I have observed and been party to.

dmart90 said:

---

Almost 60 here. I generally agree. But the vitriol shown for people with differing political opinions has ratcheted up. Social media has made it so much worse. It's easy to demonize the "other side" when the village idiots have a loud voice. One example of an extreme view becomes representative of the other side. It's disturbing and unfounded.

Intelligent people seek out dissenting opinions to challenge themselves and their views. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see much of that in the comments in this thread. I see bunch of names calling and generalizations.

---

Explain how you know that folks who have this disdain for leftists etc have not sought out dissenting opinions which have thus formed their positions?

Pumpkinhead said:

---

If you have soaked in a lot of the political 'tribal' culture war mindset where the world has been simplified to an 'us versus them'...then you'll be someone who has a very difficult time understanding how someone could vote for a candidate in the other political party.

The group of people who would be considered 'moderate' liberals or conservatives, some of which classify themselves politically as 'independent'...sure, they could vote either way depending on the candidates to choose from.

---

That is like saying that the sane members of Pink Floyd were as much at fault as Syd was when Barrett very clearly went from sane to insane.

Most Rs haven't changed a single political position since Reagan. Yet they are just as much at fault?! No.

The left has completely jumped the shark. THAT is the issue, not tribalism. Bill Clinton of old would be an R today.

Logos Stick said:

---

Pumpkinhead said:

---

If you have soaked in a lot of the political 'tribal' culture war mindset where the world has been simplified to an 'us versus them'...then you'll be someone who has a very difficult time understanding how someone could vote for a candidate in the other political party.

The group of people who would be considered 'moderate' liberals or conservatives, some of which classify themselves politically as 'independent'...sure, they could vote either way depending on the candidates to choose from.

---

That is like saying that the sane members of Pink Floyd were as much at fault as Syd was when Barrett very clearly went from sane to insane.

Most Rs haven't changed a single political position since Reagan. Yet they are just as much at fault?! No.

The left has completely jumped the shark. THAT is the issue, not tribalism. Bill Clinton of old would be an R today.

---

The left leadership certainly jumped the shark. And tribalism is definitely an issue. we are at the point now where all the news media is completely biased one way, and social media is 24-7 non-stop full of bloggers/podcasts/pundits beating the tribal drums.

But is there a significant group of moderates and independents still out there who could be swayed either way? Sure.

However, no doubt the Dem leadership is going to have to seriously rebrand to get back to winning elections again. They will need to detach from the culture warfare stuff and focus on core populist economic and education issues.

For example, suppose the Dem candidate in the General election was someone such as Rahm Emanuel who recently went on the Megyn Kelly show. Listening to him, you can see how some of his messaging could appeal and be competitive versus a GOP candidate in a general election. And is why he was comfortable getting grilled by someone like Megyn Kelly. Obviously with the caveat that someone like him would have to make it through the Dem primaries. But that would certainly be a stronger type of Dem candidate than throwing a Kamala out there.

Rahm Emanuel on How Dems Lost Their Way and Trump's Immigration Success, Plus Halperin, Lauren, More

A person believes in a government that controls the central beliefs of the government. That they know what is best and have established a government and society that lives those beliefs.

dmart90 said:

---

So much hyperbole in this thread. Do y'all just base your views on everything that you read on the interwebs or do you get out and actually talk to real people with differing opinions?

Edit: Yes there are crazies out there. But they are not the majority.

---

You whine about hyperbole and yet you won't actually go back and read old Democrat speeches and policy stances because history proves that the Democrat party unilaterally and by iteself moved to fundamentally Marxist philosophy. It's not merely relative position to the Republican party. The entire Republican congressional leadership today is to the left of Daniel Moynihan and Lloyd Doggett (in the old days) if not to the left of Tip O'Neill. The "interwebs" isn't just opinions but also archives of historical documents and speech transcripts.

mental illness
pravda brainwashing
or actual America-hating and capitalism-hating commies

you have to buy into a lot of lies to want the socialist regime to succeed and consciously vote for them.

• it's everyone else's fault and not your own that capitalism has failed you and not others
• government should censor those they don't like because it protects "democracy"
• government should solve everyone's problems for everyone because they're so good at everything - free food, shelter, and healthcare for all because it's truly free - the half of us left who still pay taxes to government can afford it- in fact- tax them more. make the half that still pays taxes pay their fair share!
• the people who don't vote for socialism are our "greatest threat" because of right wing domestic terror
• moms at school board meetings are domestic terrorists
• catholics are extremists and must be infiltrated
• we need over 20million immigrants quickly asap to pick fruits and the gangsters are just maryland dads
• children should be permanently mutilated before their brains are developed if you want them to
• men should be in the locker room, dressing room, bathroom with your daughter if they want to
• children need to learn about butt stuff and weird kink as early as possible in school
• killing babies is a constitutional right and "healthcare"
• criminals are actually victims because of capitalism, biased laws and biased policing. so let thieves and criminals roam free- it's those job and family having church going tax paying normies that are the real bad guys
• ...the list can go on and on...

Find it funny that people are more concerned with Tyler Childers lyrics than the Democratic party

Quote:

---

The entire Republican congressional leadership today is to the left of Daniel Moynihan and Lloyd Doggett (in the old days) if not to the left of Tip O'Neill.

---

Tip O'Neill was a New Deal democrat who favored universal government sponsored healthcare and government sponsored public works corps ala FDR

Daniel Moynihan fought his entire life for universal basic income, was anti-death penalty, and was the earliest bell ringer on the need for a government response to climate change

So no . . .the entire republican congressional leadership is definitely not to the left of those guys.

You are correct. In Moynihan's case I was thinking specifically of his stances on preventing the dissolution of the African American family. I was completely wrong in my recollection of O'Neill.

Quote:

---

You are correct. In Moynihan's case I was thinking specifically of his stances on preventing the dissolution of the African American family. I was completely wrong in my recollection of O'Neill.

---

Moynihan was against partial birth abortion as well, calling it murder.

In general though, I totally concur with the leftward drift of the democratic party. Blue Dogs have basically jumped ship to independent status.

There are only two realistic options, R & D. Most people pick the "lesser of two evils" when they vote. Dems tend to be more emotionally driven with their decisions. Also, many Dem voters view Rs as big meanies and since they want to "help" people they will always vote Dem. Most of them don't think the crazy end of the Left wing will actually do more then talk about socialism. Unfortunately, their strong emotional attachment to their ideology precludes them from stopping the crazies when Dems hold a monopoly on power.

The flipside of their emotionally driven view of politics is their outright hatred for conservatives (big meanies). They will endure a ton of bad policies if it means Rs don't get their way. The satisfaction they feel with "helping" the less fortunate and sticking it to conservatives is a high they'll never stop chasing.

dmart90 said:

---

People who have a different belief system then me must be idiots!

Come on.

And no, I'm not a liberal. But it's OK that different people believe in different things. It's kind of how the world works...

---

A different belief system would be something like I prefer Chevy and you prefer Ford.

What liberals are doing is like crawling backwards through mud on the side of the road while conservatives drive by.

dmart90 said:

---

People who have a different belief system then me must be idiots!

Come on.

And no, I'm not a liberal. But it's OK that different people believe in different things. It's kind of how the world works...

---

If it's a completely ruhtarted then, yes, they must be idiots.

dmart90 said:

---

People who have a different belief system then me must be idiots!

Come on.

And no, I'm not a liberal. But it's OK that different people believe in different things. It's kind of how the world works...

---

I'm not OK with people that believe in the following:

1. I should have been put in an concentration camp and my children taken away from me because I refused to take an experimental shot for an inconsequential cold
2. People that clamored for the entire world to be shut down over an inconsequential cold
3. People that would gleefully take away my firearms or see me dead for not giving them up
4. People that think my parenting style is criminal and who would gleefully see me thrown in jail because my children don't want anything to do with the left's agenda
5. People that think, support and actively push mentally ill men dressing in women's clothing pushing their illness on children and think that gay sex books should be readily available and pushed on elementary school kids
6. People that think I don't pay enough in taxes and that I should pay more and more and more while other people that generally agree with their stupidity should pay no taxes
7. People that have zero understanding of the founding of this country and what the actual text of the Constitution says
8. People that are so smooth brained that they would willfully give up all of their rights to the government and think everybody else should as well, because they are lazy and stupid and think everybody else should be lazy ant stupid

HTMFH

Believe what you want, but when your beliefs are that I am evil because I think for myself and don't need daddy government running every aspect of my life and that I have the audacity to believe that I should be able to keep what I earn and not have it forcibly taken from me and handed to some lazy fck that can't or won't earn - expect significant pushback, ridicule and disdain for those beliefs.

schmellba99 said:

---

dmart90 said:

---

People who have a different belief system then me must be idiots!

Come on.

And no, I'm not a liberal. But it's OK that different people believe in different things. It's kind of how the world works...

---

I'm not OK with people that believe in the following:

1. I should have been put in an concentration camp and my children taken away from me because I refused to take an experimental shot for an inconsequential cold
2. People that clamored for the entire world to be shut down over an inconsequential cold
3. People that would gleefully take away my firearms or see me dead for not giving them up
4. People that think my parenting style is criminal and who would gleefully see me thrown in jail because my children don't want anything to do with the left's agenda
5. People that think, support and actively push mentally ill men dressing in women's clothing pushing their illness on children and think that gay sex books should be readily available and pushed on elementary school kids
6. People that think I don't pay enough in taxes and that I should pay more and more and more while other people that generally agree with their stupidity should pay no taxes
7. People that have zero understanding of the founding of this country and what the actual text of the Constitution says
8. People that are so smooth brained that they would willfully give up all of their rights to the government and think everybody else should as well, because they are lazy and stupid and think everybody else should be lazy ant stupid

HTMFH

Believe what you want, but when your beliefs are that I am evil because I think for myself and don't need daddy government running every aspect of my life and that I have the audacity to believe that I should be able to keep what I earn and not have it forcibly taken from me and handed to some lazy fck that can't or won't earn - expect significant pushback, ridicule and disdain for those beliefs.

---

Well said. People that believe 1-8 are defective and they need to know they are defective so they can start to fix themselves.

The democrat/liberal view is basically the mind of a child. Their ideas are self-centered and not thought through. There are a lot of people with the minds of children

Smittyfubar said:

---

Other than brainwashing or pure ignorance, I just don't understand. I have people I were friends with years ago (no longer because of time and distance) who I used to think were pretty smart. They now act as if they would go to their grave supporting the dems, even if biden, hillary, and obama personally taxed them 100% of their paychecks.

---

It requires being a contortionist to get your head that far up your arse.

2. People that clamored for the entire world to be shut down over an inconsequential cold

…and this while overrunning the border with people from who knows where.