If you sit down and outline the stuff that you think the government should handle (military, roads, fire/police), it still is a sizable number and would require some income tax.

And you'd be on the hook for schools, healthcare costs in retirement, national parks (do those exist anymore?), etc).

There is a metric ton of waste in the government but it's tough to envision a system that doesn't rely on some tax revenue in the modern world.

Most states would turn very ugly very quickly without some forced funding to infrastructure or social services.

I would comment but I am not a taxicologist.

Government today is primarily a massive jobs program and a mechanism for funneling tax dollars to favored NGOs and "non-profits."

aezmvp said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

If we are talking about net federal income taxes, they really are not paying in anything of consequence. The top 25% of earners pays 87% of net federal income taxes.

Let that sink in. How could representation ever address that when 3/4 are almost completely detached from the consequences of their vote?

---

Political donations = voice in government
Voice in government = representation
Wealth = ability to provide political donations
QED

---

If that were true, entitlements would not exist.

I don't mind paying taxes for legitimate functions of government to be efficiently and effectively carried out. I do mind paying for the huge overhead of near useless grifting freeloaders and waste and fraud. All that being said, I'd rather bribe the useless to mostly behave and not cause me problems (think French Revolution or Russian revolution) so I can go about making best use of what I do get to keep. Millions of stupid greedy selfish people can do a massive amount of damage if they get motivated by experiencing too much of the natural consequences of their own actions, sadly. They can destroy opportunities for the rest of us.

I keep seeing this thread on my watchlist because I replied to it earlier, but damn, the thread title makes me laugh.


I don't even think the socialist democrats who always vote for more government and more taxes really think the government is actually good at implementing or managing any large programs for anything or spending our money efficiently or wisely on anything.

I would rather not pay to pacify them. Let them come and deal with them harshly.

I have taken huge risks with my personal safety in service to my country to just be forced to pay off my fellow citizens to not attack me.

Just tell me how many i need to shoot to have my taxes reduced to the cost to cover our core government functions alone.

lol, asking F16 if taxes are worth it…

AggieKatie2 said:

---

As an American, it's crazy, to me, that a country that fought a war for independence almost entirely on the basis of taxes now has such a tax heavy culture. I believe their effective tax rate in the 1770s was like 2% (Uk was like 6%)

As a Texan I pay:

Income Tax
Sales Tax on most purchases
Property Tax
Gasoline Tax
Local Gov Taxes on items/services (hotels, cell phones , etc)
Etc.


Would our founding fathers look at our country and say it's worth it for the lifestyle we now have, or that we have betrayed their foundational principles.

---

Yeah. If only we could go back to living like the 1770s.

JohnClark929 said:

---

DrEvazanPhD said:

---

We basically work half the year for free, so that Vladimir in Bulgaria can get ****** operations, or some women with 5 kids by 4 dads can keep ****ing.

Meanwhile, our roads are ****, our schools are ****, our "retirement" package from the state is ****, and we import third worlders to make everything ****tier

---

Lots of victimhood. Try enjoying life a little.

---

What is inaccurate about his statement?

1876er said:

---

AggieKatie2 said:

---

As an American, it's crazy, to me, that a country that fought a war for independence almost entirely on the basis of taxes now has such a tax heavy culture. I believe their effective tax rate in the 1770s was like 2% (Uk was like 6%)

As a Texan I pay:

Income Tax
Sales Tax on most purchases
Property Tax
Gasoline Tax
Local Gov Taxes on items/services (hotels, cell phones , etc)
Etc.


Would our founding fathers look at our country and say it's worth it for the lifestyle we now have, or that we have betrayed their foundational principles.

---

Yeah. If only we could go back to living like the 1770s.

---

At this point, I have no issue with this.

About the only thing I'd really miss is a flushing toilet.

AggieKatie2 said:

---

As an American, it's crazy, to me, that a country that fought a war for independence almost entirely on the basis of taxes now has such a tax heavy culture. I believe their effective tax rate in the 1770s was like 2% (Uk was like 6%)

As a Texan I pay:

Income Tax
Sales Tax on most purchases
Property Tax
Gasoline Tax
Local Gov Taxes on items/services (hotels, cell phones , etc)
Etc.


Would our founding fathers look at our country and say it's worth it for the lifestyle we now have, or that we have betrayed their foundational principles.

---

Here's how I look at it.
How much of your income is being taxed? 20%? That means you spend 1/5th of your time working for the government. You think the government is worth 1/5th of your time?
They give you that much in return?

BoydCrowder13 said:

---

If you sit down and outline the stuff that you think the government should handle (military, roads, fire/police), it still is a sizable number and would require some income tax.

And you'd be on the hook for schools, healthcare costs in retirement, national parks (do those exist anymore?), etc).

There is a metric ton of waste in the government but it's tough to envision a system that doesn't rely on some tax revenue in the modern world.

Most states would turn very ugly very quickly without some forced funding to infrastructure or social services.

---

No, it wouldn't.

Taxes don't have to mean "I'm confiscating whatever percentage of your income I choose to, and the more successful you are the higher that percentage will be while 50% of the population doesn't have to worry about these demands like you do".

This country operated without the concept of an income tax (or payroll tax for that matter) for 100+ years. Same with social security and every other unconstitutional social program that the feds have zero business operating, much less taking money from us under the threat of law and jail time, to pay for.

oh no said:

---

I keep seeing this thread on my watchlist because I replied to it earlier, but damn, the thread title makes me laugh.


I don't even think the socialist democrats who always vote for more government and more taxes really think the government is actually good at implementing or managing any large programs for anything or spending our money efficiently or wisely on anything.

---

You would be wrong. Very wrong.

This was recorded in 1965. It never ceases to amaze me how prophetic it was.

In this, he states that any country that taxed it's citizens more than 25% has killed the incentive to work and therefore the country.

He quotes that the overall tax burden in 1965 US was already 33%.

If you can't listen to all of it, start at the 5 minute mark and go to at least the 13 minute mark. He discusses the origination of the income tax in the US and how those taxes affect us as a country.


Paul Harvey - The Testing Time

Throwing out those that more or less break even, net recipients outnumber net contributors like 10:1. Just saying,,,,

The number of free handout seeking government-dependent poors who pay zero tax and receive a free pass on being lazy for life is approaching half the population. That is how socialism wins. ...and that half plus the political elite and the media scream things like "tax the rich" and "make them pay their fair share". Well, you're going to make some of them poor and join the other side. You're going to make some of them leave and shelter their earnings and wealth elsewhere. You're going to disincentivize hard work, entrepreneurship, and investment and growth. You're going to have to print more currency and devalue it as well as take on more debt to keep doing a bad job of fulfilling your promises. And you can look at Venezuela to see how socialism will really work here, because that's the blue print we're following.

Are taxes worth it? We've got a bunch of corrupt politicians and bureaucrats getting wealthy with our money. They're spending on special interest causes and globalist alarmist causes. All with kickbacks for themselves and their families and NGOs operating in the dark without audit or transparency. Is government spending our money well on things we need like security and infrastructure? F no.

Tax is theft.

MouthBQ98 said:

---

Throwing out those that more or less break even, net recipients outnumber net contributors like 10:1. Just saying,,,,

---

So I have to potentially shoot it out with 9 people. Giddy up.