**** NFA Lawsuit Filed - Silencer Shop, et al v. ATF, et al. *****

13,350 Views | 105 Replies | Last: 19 hrs ago by FTAG 2000
GeorgiAg
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Also, the decision is binding right now only in Texas, I believe. Another court could have the opposite ruling, so we NEED this to go the S.Ct and win so it's nationwide.

Edit: other states joined in as well. I haven't read the ruling in full yet i am also not a constitutional lawyer. Still a SCt ruling would put this to bed.
Pinochet
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GeorgiAg said:

I'm trying to log into PACER but my assistant is out at lunch and I can't remember my password.

This is how we know GeorgiAg is a real law firm partner and not just pretending to be one.
txyaloo
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samurai_science said:

Imagine being able to order a suppressor over the internet with no special permissions or hassle. The free market would bring down prices quick on these things.

It should also help resale prices for cheaper NFA items like SBR, suppressors, and AOW. No one wants to wait months for a 2 stamp out of state transfer on a suppressor or SBR. It was even worse when being popped $400 for the 2 stamps
RikkiTikkaTagem
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GeorgiAg said:

bkag9824 said:

GeorgiAg said:

kyledr04 said:

Just saw that and came looking here. I'm not sure I understand. So you need a stamp or not?

The ruling is specific to the plaintiff and customers. Seven day stay means you can't go to your sporting goods store and buy one and go home same day just yet. ATF will likely appeal. Boo.

But if this ruling stands, there it eventually will mean the end of NFA for suppressors and SBRs!


How does the NFA go away for everyone if the ruling applies only to the current plaintiff and customers? Assuming NFA doesn't appeal or appeals and loses?

How much longer until we can simply go buy one off the shelf?

The wheels of justice move slowly, but they grind fine.... If the ATF appeals, ugh. Appellate Courts take forever. Potentially months, years. ATF not appealing would be a miracle.

This is the first domino. You really think only one company is going to be able to sell suppressors/SBRs? If this ruling sticks, it will all go away.

The ATF will change their rules for all or everyone else files a lawsuit citing the S.Ct. decision (if appealed and we win) ... yada yada yada.


And we need definite closure on this. It's like the pistol brace issue. One day you're a law abiding citizen and the next you're a 12x felon with a lake full of guns.

We can't say SBRs and silenced for everybody and then have the rules change where we need a stamp again in a year after we all buy 5-6……dozen for all of guns…..which are at the bottom of a lake.
nortex97
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It was announced the feds are not going to appeal this (for some reason quiet about this).

Pretty fun:

Unfortunately, on the basis of this case I'd expect plaintiffs in a blue state/region to file a similar case to get a circuit split, forcing scotus to take it up at some point, but good for Texans while it is here at least.
GeorgiAg
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Wow. I am shocked. Still a giant mess. But I'm going to my sporting goods store to see if they'll give me my suppressor today.
nortex97
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I can't imagine a store in Georgia would have made such changes today. Silencer Shop I think is also using it as a marketing opportunity here of course (after paying for the litigation costs). I plan to spend some coin with them also at some point.
JFABNRGR
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ATF parody or truth?

“You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me.”
- Alexander Solzhenitsyn
AggieT
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AG
Truth
deddog
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Help me out here.

What does this mean if I am in Texas? I can buy a suppressor online or go to a store and buy a suppressor?
nortex97
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If you have a concealed carry permit silencer shop is doing that right now, yes.

I am curious what dealers are participating though. Would like to see more stories of folks executing on this before trying it out.
The Sun
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From my Powered By Silencer Shop dealer this morning

Quote:

& RECENT COURT RULINGS As many of you are aware, yesterday marked the deadline for the ATF to appeal the recent court ruling regarding suppressor transfers. You may have also seen recent media (including content from Silencer Shop) demonstrating silencer
transfers completed via Form 4473 alone.
Where Things Stand: As of today, the ATF has not issued official guidance or formal procedures for
FFLs/SOTs to follow under this ruling.
Our Policy: To protect our business and ensure our customers remain fully compliant with federal law, we will continue processing all silencer transfers through the standard Form 4 process until official,
written clarification is issued by the ATF.
"Buy & Hold" Option Available: Want to secure a suppressor before inventory shifts? We are offering a Buy & Hold option. You can purchase your silencer now,
and we will hold it in inventory
while we await official AT guidance on transfer procedures.
Pinochet
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lol at this - "you can pay us early and have us hold it." The old way takes a couple weeks but they're going to hold your money without transferring the thing to you until they decide their business is protected.

"At a time of our choosing, we'll let you have the thing you paid for. Until then we will just make you an unsecured creditor of our business."
GeorgiAg
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AG
In Georgia SBRs and suppressors are illegal unless you have NFA registration. Boo! Dammit Georgia.
Rapier108
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I'll wait a while before getting that SBR I've been wanting forever just to see how this eventually plays out.

Would suck to buy one, and then have to go through all kind of crap later because the current ruling gets overturned by SCOTUS.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
GeorgiAg
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AG
Pinochet said:

lol at this - "you can pay us early and have us hold it." The old way takes a couple weeks but they're going to hold your money without transferring the thing to you until they decide their business is protected.

"At a time of our choosing, we'll let you have the thing you paid for. Until then we will just make you an unsecured creditor of our business."

You own the suppressor. My sporting goods store made me do this too. But I know as soon as I get approved, I can go get it. You get to look at the actual one you buy before you pay for it.
nortex97
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GeorgiAg said:

In Georgia SBRs and suppressors are illegal unless you have NFA registration. Boo! Dammit Georgia.

Just gonna point out that in order to repeal the NFA we need 60 GOP senators. You're not helping yourselves.
GeorgiAg
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nortex97 said:

GeorgiAg said:

In Georgia SBRs and suppressors are illegal unless you have NFA registration. Boo! Dammit Georgia.

Just gonna point out that in order to repeal the NFA we need 60 GOP senators. You're not helping yourselves.

byfLuger41
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#soon


TO THE DROP ZONE!!!
GeorgiAg
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Well if they become legal, I guess we can call them silencers now.
GeorgiAg
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man, silencershop.com is like Texags after a coaching change. You can't even get the page to load.
Pinochet
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GeorgiAg said:

Pinochet said:

lol at this - "you can pay us early and have us hold it." The old way takes a couple weeks but they're going to hold your money without transferring the thing to you until they decide their business is protected.

"At a time of our choosing, we'll let you have the thing you paid for. Until then we will just make you an unsecured creditor of our business."

You own the suppressor. My sporting goods store made me do this too. But I know as soon as I get approved, I can go get it. You get to look at the actual one you buy before you pay for it.

That's under the old Form 4 approach. You literally own it and that's the way the law works. That's not what these guys are offering. They're saying you can pay now for the promise of a gun (suppressor) in the future when they decide some unknown condition has been met. They're not giving you the serial number because they are arguing they can't do the transfer. It's unsecured. If they could give you a serial number, they would be doing something they argue they can't. Maybe they just need better attorneys. Or maybe they have no attorney and are getting their legal advice from FFLforums.com.

When your assistant gets in, ask her for your PACER password so you can find some bankruptcy cases on point.
GeorgiAg
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Ok, no thanks.
nortex97
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The point is one shouldn't even have to go to a gun dealer for a suppressor. It should be sold in whatever store wants to carry them. Or via private transaction a la texas gun trader.

They shouldn't even be serialized, let alone registered/stamped/taxed like they are nuclear launch codes. This insanity of trusts etc. for a can must end. It should be 'hey, I went to this estate sale this weekend and picked up what I think is a 9mm can for 50 bucks, can anyone identify this?'
GeorgiAg
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Agree completely. It's hearing protection. A suppressor alone is less dangerous than your wife's rolling pin.
Pinochet
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GeorgiAg said:

Agree completely. It's hearing protection. A suppressor alone is less dangerous than your wife's rolling pin.

Joke's on you. My wife doesn't have a rolling pin and can't cook for *****
TAMUallen
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We just need this to legally clear, nationally, and there won't be a way to confiscate all the firearms and suppressors if it is somehow rescinded

It would be so delightful to legally be able to shoot multiple hogs before they even know what is going on
GeorgiAg
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I emailed my State (GA) senator. The way Georgia laws are, they require federal registration even if the federal law is unconstitutional. Boo. Anyway, at least I got a response.

Quote:

Very familiar. Right now we have discussed with the state AG's office on this issue. We are all waiting on the ATF to see if they are going to appeal. We are still in the appeal timeframe, although I don't think they will under this administration (just my opinion there). Either way, we will need to wait legislatively until we are back in session to repeal any laws and I am planning on doing that in 2027.
Thanks for reaching out.
Tim

Ag_of_08
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Would be amazing to take my middle shooting and have him enjoy it without having to have plugs and muffs( he doesnt handle loud well) or shoot a .22 without needing earmuffs at all..
The Sun
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Hehehehehe...

hunter2012
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AG
Isn't this a bad thing if they use the info to dox every registered gun owner in the country?
The Sun
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hunter2012 said:

Isn't this a bad thing if they use the info to dox every registered gun owner in the country?


I don't know why anyone would care. Every imaginable piece of data that exists about you and I is out there now.

Ideally ATF would refuse to pay and the ransomware gang would not decrypt the data so ATF would lose it. Unfortunately, if ATF is to be take at their word, none of the NFA or eForms data was compromised.
AgLA06
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hunter2012 said:

Isn't this a bad thing if they use the info to dox every registered gun owner in the country?

Sounds like a really great reason not to have a government database at all for something under the ruse of a 'tax'.
txyaloo
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hunter2012 said:

Isn't this a bad thing if they use the info to dox every registered gun owner in the country?

You don't have to register guns in free America...

ATF has no national registry outside of NFA/Title 2 stuff. They already announced that info wasn't breached.
normaleagle05
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ATF is specifically disallowed from having such a registry. Wouldn't it be a revelation if they had a clandestine/illegal registry and this hack exposed them for it?!
 
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