The measure, House Bill 13, would have created a new government council to establish the emergency response plan and administer the grant program, both of which would have been aimed at facilitating better communication between first responders. The bill also called for the plan to include "the use of outdoor warning sirens," like those used in tornado-prone Texas counties, and develop new "emergency alert systems." Authored by Rep. Ken King, R-Canadian, the legislation was inspired by last year's devastating wildfires in the Panhandle, where more than 1 million acres burned - including part of King's property - and three people died. The bill failed in the Texas Senate, prompting newfound questions about whether lawmakers should have done more to help rural, cash-strapped counties stave off the deadly effects of future natural disasters.


"I can tell you in hindsight, watching what it takes to deal with a disaster like this, my vote would probably be different now," said Virdell, a freshman GOP lawmaker from Brady.

https://www.texastribune.org/2025/07/06/texas-disaster-warning-emergency-communication-bill-kerrville-floods/

Maybe this is Texas Congress' wake up call. We can only hope.

I don't know man....I get that liberals worship the government and think it is designed to swoop in and save them from any and all possible bad things that could happen in life, but this was such a freak deal. Not everything can be prevented by the government. Honestly, I am doubtful they could run a lemonade stand for a profit.

The goal of any knee jerk government response has to be to grift. Use the chaos to pass some bill to "help".

An alarm system likely wouldnt' have done much. Too much water, much too fast. We simply can't vote our way to safety for many of these disasters. The easiest and best solution is to not build habitable structures in floodways/floodplains.

I do think that the alert system needs to be overhauled. Watches & Warnings are issued too frequently to be impactful. There needs to be an active emergency category that is used very sparingly - active floods, active known tornados on the ground, active giant hail dropping on the ground. There's been other situations where wrapping up the disaster in a warning hasn't been enough, but nothing on this scale before.

These 'freak deal' flash floods are a reoccurring problem in Kerr County.

In 2016 Kerr County contracted for an engineering study on their current warning system and were told it was antiquated and inadequate. After failing to secure a grant, they continued to kick the can down the road.

2021 rolls around and they have over 5 mil in ARPA funds in their bank and wind up with a grand total of over 10 mil. And they still don't update their flood warning system.

The people of Kerr County also didn't want to spend any of the ARPA money because it was tied to the Biden administration. The Judge suggested that they should hold on to the money so that it can't be sent to states that don't share their values.

The county eventually signed a 7.5 mil contract with Motorola in 2022 for a county emergency communications system. The system would provide 95% radio coverage to firefighters, EMS and law enforcement.

The USGR has had a developing a flood warning system on their Strategic Plan doc since 2022 which has been rolling to the next years plan for the last few years.

My understanding was so much of the loss of life was because this occurred when everyone was still sleeping. Would a siren of some kind not have helped in that instance?

If the argument against sirens was "it just happened to fast to be worth it"....how is that different than tornado sirens?

AJ02 said:

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My understanding was so much of the loss of life was because this occurred when everyone was still sleeping. Would a siren of some kind not have helped in that instance?

If the argument against sirens was "it just happened to fast to be worth it"....how is that different than tornado sirens?

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You still a qualified person or something to trigger it at 3am

We might want to start by acknowledging the data that this is a tough place for camps … most flash flood prone area in the USA

samurai_science said:

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AJ02 said:

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My understanding was so much of the loss of life was because this occurred when everyone was still sleeping. Would a siren of some kind not have helped in that instance?

If the argument against sirens was "it just happened to fast to be worth it"....how is that different than tornado sirens?

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You still a qualified person or something to trigger it at 3am

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They had 5 people there overnight to do just that. They knew in advance the storm had the potential to be bad, so the increased from their normal 2 man crew to 5 man. Same as they would do for storms with potential to spawn tornadoes. So I'm not following your argument?

It reminds me of Worth Ranch Scout Camp in Palo Pinto. Part of that camp was in the Brazos flood plain right on the river. I have distinct memories as a kid of the siren they would sound when water would be released by the dam at Possum Kingdom Lake. It was actually on the property and loud as ****. If you were in the water it was the signal to get your ass out quick. We would sometimes watch how quickly the water rose and sped up because it was so impressive.


I think something like that could be effective at a place like Camp Mystic. Even if it's the middle of the night, you would not sleep through something like that. I am not saying that everyone would be able to get roused and to safety in time. People still might get caught with how fast that water was rising. But you have to think it would give some people a fighting chance. I think that's worth it.

I was wondering about a siren system as well. The Great Plains states seemed to have figured it out with tornadoes and they happen as fast as a flood.

Agreed. I'm one of those that likely would've slept right through it all and only woken up when it was too late. Once I'm asleep, I'm a pretty heavy sleeper.

FIDO_Ags said:

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I was wondering about a siren system as well. The Great Plains states seemed to have figured it out with tornadoes and they happen as fast as a flood.

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You could even have a siren or alarm that runs off of the flow rate in an area. So it automatically sends a signal to someone when it exceeds xx cfs.

rgvag11 said:

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These 'freak deal' flash floods are a reoccurring problem in Kerr County.

In 2016 Kerr County contracted for an engineering study on their current warning system and were told it was antiquated and inadequate. After failing to secure a grant, they continued to kick the can down the road.

2021 rolls around and they have over 5 mil in ARPA funds in their bank and wind up with a grand total of over 10 mil. And they still don't update their flood warning system.

The people of Kerr County also didn't want to spend any of the ARPA money because it was tied to the Biden administration. The Judge suggested that they should hold on to the money so that it can't be sent to states that don't share their values.

The county eventually signed a 7.5 mil contract with Motorola in 2022 for a county emergency communications system. The system would provide 95% radio coverage to firefighters, EMS and law enforcement.

The USGR has had a developing a flood warning system on their Strategic Plan doc since 2022 which has been rolling to the next years plan for the last few years.

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At least cite your sources for the above talking points...

https://www.reddit.com/r/TexasPolitics/comments/1ltnjf8/we_have_floods_all_the_time_and_small_town/

That aside, did Kerr complete the Motorola constract? Cause the points seem to line up that they had an issue, received some funding, then upgraded the communications system.

But when you just copy and paste from Reddit its hard to follow.

AJ02 said:

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Agreed. I'm one of those that likely would've slept right through it all and only woken up when it was too late. Once I'm asleep, I'm a pretty heavy sleeper.

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It seems like a relatively low cost. I don't think the sirens at Worth Ranch were even connected to the authorities at the dam. Just a phone call and someone would trigger the alarm. I hate to use the line, "if it just saves one life", but that sorta feels appropriate here. I think all of us would sell everything we owned if it meant giving a child or loved one a chance at survival.


The overall fall out from this tragedy has been terrible. Lots of people have said lots of terrible things and attempted to place blame all over the place. I completely understand the anger and frustration and in some cases it might be warranted. But for me the best thing I feel like I can do is to support a solution for the future. This isn't a random occurrence. Texas and this area in particular is no stranger to floods so it's bound to happen again. I want to focus my energy and frustration into productive means. If the government won't provide a solution, then we need to know. If there's a camp out there that wants to fund it's own warning system, I'm down. Let me know and I'll donate to your cause and help get money from others.


I just refuse to believe we can't do a better job in this area.

Quote:

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Would a siren of some kind not have helped in that instance?

If the argument against sirens was "it just happened to fast to be worth it"....how is that different than tornado sirens?

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Tornado sirens are largely useless in rural areas as well since they can't cover everything.

I don't know if any warning system would have worked in time for these kids at the camps. The only thing that might make sense if have something in place like the lightning rule for outdoor sporting events. In this case, it's the flash flood rule.

If your area gets put under a flash flood warning and you are in a flood zone area (based on the FEMA maps) , you have to go to higher ground until the warning is over. This would not be able to apply to private homes, but to public areas and land being used as a camp. It will be a pain in the butt, but it may save lives.

The only other recourse I can think of is just ban people from having camps in these flood prone areas.

Quote:

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It reminds me of Worth Ranch Scout Camp in Palo Pinto. Part of that camp was in the Brazos flood plain right on the river. I have distinct memories as a kid of the siren they would sound when water would be released by the dam at Possum Kingdom Lake.

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Not really comparable. Dam releases are well timed in advance of oncoming floodwaters by BRA. They even post them now on social media, with how many gates open, including pass through volume from Possum Kingdom to Whitney and all points in between with notice to boaters. Opening floodgates isnt' something you can do quickly or at the onset of a flood. You anticipate volume, release to account for incoming flood, and then allow that volume to pass through your catchment basin.

nai06 said:

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AJ02 said:

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Agreed. I'm one of those that likely would've slept right through it all and only woken up when it was too late. Once I'm asleep, I'm a pretty heavy sleeper.

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It seems like a relatively low cost. I don't think the sirens at Worth Ranch were even connected to the authorities at the dam. Just a phone call and someone would trigger the alarm. I hate to use the line, "if it just saves one life", but that sorta feels appropriate here. I think all of us would sell everything we owned if it meant giving a child or loved one a chance at survival.


The overall fall out from this tragedy has been terrible. Lots of people have said lots of terrible things and attempted to place blame all over the place. I completely understand the anger and frustration and in some cases it might be warranted. But for me the best thing I feel like I can do is to support a solution for the future. This isn't a random occurrence. Texas and this area in particular is no stranger to floods so it's bound to happen again. I want to focus my energy and frustration into productive means. If the government won't provide a solution, then we need to know. If there's a camp out there that wants to fund it's own warning system, I'm down. Let me know and I'll donate to your cause and help get money from others.


I just refuse to believe we can't do a better job in this area.

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The simplest and even cheapest option is to not build habitable children's structures in floodways/floodplains.

Nothing wrong with exploring some sort of warning system akin to tornado sirens in that area. Would it have helped in THIS situation? Maybe/maybe not. Who knows. This was a generational flood. Would it help in other situations. Almost assuredly yes.

You don't have to be so anti-gubment to just sneer down everything that is proposed. This area has a problem. A long known problem. We can engineer some solutions to potentially help alleviate it. If my phone goes off at 0300 letting me know a granny is missing 3 counties over, maybe it can do the same when rapid rise of water exceeds a rate considered to be dangerous. Or something similar.

Quote:

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This area has a problem. A long known problem.

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Yes, it's almost like we have an entire agency that creates maps, determines elevations, shades areas of deliniation, and refers to them as floodways/floodplains with a mathemically determined frequency of event.

And then we build in them. Live in them. Sleep in them. And then wonder why people get killed in them.

It's ok to review and try to improve the system to save lives in the future.

I have not looked into this, but was the camp in a floodway or floodplain?

I think it is fair to criticize that there is poor understanding of the risk of flash floods along rivers like the Guadalupe in Texas. very similar to what you get up in mountainous areas where a single storm over a river flowing through a canyon can cause quick and epic rises in the flow of water.

Regardless, seems as though the camp was aware of the risks and had plans in place. Just the extremeness of this event was greater than those plans. Sad.

I am surprised the camps didn't have some kind of private-pay flood monitoring service that was calculating rain rates in real time to determine the impacts downstream. I have stayed at Girl Scout camps along the Guadalupe and always just assumed there was some kind of flood monitoring. As a parent to young kids, it will be another problem to solve for when we camp near water again.

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Tornado sirens are largely useless in rural areas as well since they can't cover everything.

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Not sure I agree with this as every single small town in Nebraska, Kansas, and Oklahoma seems to have a siren.

And that area of Texas is far from rural when compared to those three states.

Teslag said:

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An alarm system likely wouldnt' have done much. Too much water, much too fast. We simply can't vote our way to safety for many of these disasters. The easiest and best solution is to not build habitable structures in floodways/floodplains.

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This. I think I read that it was 26 feet in about 45 minutes?

Teslag said:

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Quote:

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This area has a problem. A long known problem.

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Yes, it's almost like we have an entire agency that creates maps, determines elevations, shades areas of deliniation, and refers to them as floodways/floodplains with a mathemically determined frequency of event.

And then we build in them. Live in them. Sleep in them. And then wonder why people get killed in them.

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True, but the hubris of humans will remain unmatched. And let's be real, no one would live in Florida, Oklahoma, Kansas, the Texas Coastline, etc, etc, etc. if such thinking was had by all. But it's not. And it won't be. So no use thinking of such theoreticals honestly. We can explore options to lessen deadly hazards. Nothing wrong with that.

El Gallo Blanco said:

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I don't know man....I get that liberals worship the government and think it is designed to swoop in and save them from any and all possible bad things that could happen in life, but this was such a freak deal. Not everything can be prevented by the government. Honestly, I am doubtful they could run a lemonade stand for a profit.

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Are you kidding? With all the regulations and red-tape they foist on things like that, no way will they make a profit.

Teslag said:

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Quote:

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It reminds me of Worth Ranch Scout Camp in Palo Pinto. Part of that camp was in the Brazos flood plain right on the river. I have distinct memories as a kid of the siren they would sound when water would be released by the dam at Possum Kingdom Lake.

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Not really comparable. Dam releases are well timed in advance of oncoming floodwaters by BRA. They even post them now on social media, with how many gates open, including pass through volume from Possum Kingdom to Whitney and all points in between with notice to boaters. Opening floodgates isnt' something you can do quickly or at the onset of a flood. You anticipate volume, release to account for incoming flood, and then allow that volume to pass through your catchment basin.

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I understand this is a completely different scenario.


But what if you had siren system just for the camp that was manually triggered?

• Have someone awake and monitoring the water level.
• You would need to have sensors further upstream as well as the immediate area
• If it rose to a certain height or flow rate like mentioned above it would notify the monitor on duty
• That person could then immediately sound the siren or verify then sound the alarm.

Hell even an IR Combo cam pointed at the river could be used.

I currently have a doorbell that can see, record, and transmit an image of what's outside my door day or night that I can access anywhere in the world I have an internet connection. It can even distinguish between a person, car, or package left on the door step. I can see the current temp and level of my hot water heater as well as be notified if it springs a leak and can shut it off remotely from anywhere in the world.


I feel like this is actually something we can do.



EDIT: I just remembered King of the Hill had a similar episode. There was a big flood and Hank gets stuck monitoring the local dam for cracks. If the dam fails south Arlen is destroyed. If he opens the flood gates, he will for sure destroy the new outlet mall. He spend a big portion of the episode watching a screen showing a live feed of the dam and the cracks growing and debating on what to do. (spoiler, he release the water and ruins the new mall).

flown-the-coop said:

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I have not looked into this, but was the camp in a floodway or floodplain?

I think it is fair to criticize that there is poor understanding of the risk of flash floods along rivers like the Guadalupe in Texas. very similar to what you get up in mountainous areas where a single storm over a river flowing through a canyon can cause quick and epic rises in the flow of water.

Regardless, seems as though the camp was aware of the risks and had plans in place. Just the extremeness of this event was greater than those plans. Sad.

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Yes. Almost all of the cabins were in the Zone AE floodway.

Even 15-30 minutes notice could be the difference between life and death though. It is for tornadoes when tornado sirens go off. So I guess I'm still not seeing why one is okay (tornados) but not the other (flash flooding).

Quote:

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But what if you had siren system just for the camp that was manually triggered?

• Have someone awake and monitoring the water level.
• You would need to have sensors further upstream as well as the immediate area
• If it rose to a certain height or flow rate like mentioned above it would notify the monitor on duty
• That person could then immediately sound the siren or verify then sound the alarm.

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Yes, you could feasibly do this for one specific area in one specific floodway for a few specific structures. Now do it for every single flood prone area in Texas along Zone AE floodways. This is now a sytem that costs $100 Billion and may not always work.

It's cheaper to not build summer camp sleeping cabins in floodways.

It would seem then that the structures were all likely built before the floodway designation.

I am not intending this as a criticism specific to Camp Mystic (and similar), but I have to agree that one should not camp in floodways or evacuate out of them at the first drop of rain.

Be aware of the risks not matter how remote the occurrence may be. Again, sadness and prayers for those impacted.

Teslag said:

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Quote:

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But what if you had siren system just for the camp that was manually triggered?

• Have someone awake and monitoring the water level.
• You would need to have sensors further upstream as well as the immediate area
• If it rose to a certain height or flow rate like mentioned above it would notify the monitor on duty
• That person could then immediately sound the siren or verify then sound the alarm.

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Yes, you could feasibly do this for one specific area in one specific floodway for a few specific structures. Now do it for every single flood prone area in Texas along Zone AE floodways. This is now a sytem that costs $100 Billion and may not always work.

It's cheaper to not build summer camp sleeping cabins in floodways.

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How are you arriving at $100 billion? How much does it cost to maintain tornado sirens? Honestly don't know.