https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/abortion-in-jewish-thought/

Most American Jews strongly support legalized abortion: A 2015 Pew Research Forum survey found that 83 percent of American Jews, more than any other religious group, say abortion "should be legal in all/most cases."

Eta: this is not meant as an indictment, I'm offering no opinion here about the views one way or another. But merely highlighting there are much larger differences than people realize between Judaism and Christianity.

It's also evident in the voting patterns which not surprisingly leaves a lot of conservative Christians perplexed on why there is a such stark voting difference.

Yukon Cornelius said:

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https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/abortion-in-jewish-thought/

Most American Jews strongly support legalized abortion: A 2015 Pew Research Forum survey found that 83 percent of American Jews, more than any other religious group, say abortion "should be legal in all/most cases."

Eta: this is not meant as an indictment, I'm offering no opinion here about the views one way or another. But merely highlighting there are much larger differences than people realize between Judaism and Christianity.

It's also evident in the voting patterns which not surprisingly leaves a lot of conservative Christians perplexed on why there is a such stark voting difference.

---

I never claimed that there were identical views on abortions, although similar to Christian denominations, there is a wide variety of teachings on the abortion issue in Judaism. It's not a monolithic belief.

Also, that one specific issue doesn't disprove anything I've posited and is just being used as an appeal to emotion. There is not a theological consensus on abortion across all Christian denominations either. Your choice of issue is just throwing stones in a glass house.

By the way, I believe abortion is murder in all cases sans life of the mother. But you're putting forth a red herring of an argument.

Kvetch said:

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Nanomachines son said:

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Kvetch said:

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Nanomachines son said:

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BusterAg said:

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cr06gis said:

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Christians don't get offended by Christ is King

People that think judeo-Christian is a thing, do.

---

I am pro Judeo/Christian values.

Christ is King.

---

This post is proving that Judeo and Christian values do not in fact line up. Jews do not believe Christ is King while Christians do and neither side will ever compromise on these issues. Jews still follow OT Deuteronomy and Leviticus ceremonial and civil laws in addition to following the Talmud while Christians only follow the moral laws from those books and believe in absolute forgiveness through Jesus Christ through faith while also following the words of James, Peter, and Paul regarding our behavior in the sanctification process.

I am convinced most of you who proclaim this statement don't actually understand the Bible at all.

---

This is nonsense. The idea of Judeo/Christian values isn't to say that Jews and Christians practice religion in the same manner or believe all the same things to be true. It's a recognition that the moral foundation of both religions are born out of the same fundamental tenets and that those commonalities are the tenets upon which the West was built.

Are there stark differences? Sure. But the point is to take where there is commonality and build a civilization that can have a strong, moral, cohesive bond despite the differences.

Of course, there's usually ulterior motives for taking umbrage with the idea of Judeo/Christian values.

---

The ceremonial laws from the OT as well as the Jewish oral traditional combined with the Sanctification process as mentioned by Paul, James, and Peter in the NT absolutely 100% do make us quite different. Jews, as a result of these things are very insular in behavior while Christians tend to be the exact opposite as we are commanded to spread the Good News. We are fundamentally at odds with each other in areas that cannot be rectified.

---

Cool. Breaking news. There are beliefs that make each religion different than the other. Got it.

How about we take basic tenets that apply to both, like say the 10 commandments, and build a civilization that allows prosperity for all. Like how we did it despite your nonsense protestations that the Jew and Gentile cannot coexist and have absolutely no commonality in moral belief.

By the way, Jesus was a Jew, and the Bible lays out the role of the Jews as Gods chosen people. Replacement theology is heresy. Those who turn their backs on the Jews are at odds with Christ.

---

John 14:6 "Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

When you turn your back on Jesus, you have forsaken God and cannot receive salvation.

Please tell me more about how we are similar.

BoydCrowder13 said:

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Yukon Cornelius said:

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Here in lies the bigger problem and the devil work IMO. Those people should just be ignored and not an ounce of energy devoted to them. But instead we have this being made into a bigger issue and now we've introduced thought and speech control.

Because people will now second guess if how they speak of Jesus' kingship as offensive. It will happen, which is the desired outcome.

---

I guess. Though I've always heard the Jesus is Lord phrase a lot more than Jesus is King.

And it is a lot of self styled "Christian nationalists" online. Owens is just the ringleader. Honestly pisses me off to see them using Him as a prop for their troll battles.

In complete agreement with Klavan.

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I have heard both, they are the same statement. The enemies of Christian hate both statements.

Kvetch said:

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Yukon Cornelius said:

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https://www.ncjw.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Judaism-and-Abortion-FINAL.pdf

You can read here and go find any legitimate Christian viewpoint on the same issue and see if they are the same or not.

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I can find you plenty of "Christian" churches that wave pride flags and cheer abortion. Try harder.

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And these churches are apostate and should not be considered Christian.

Nanomachines son said:

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Kvetch said:

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Nanomachines son said:

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Kvetch said:

---

Nanomachines son said:

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BusterAg said:

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cr06gis said:

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Christians don't get offended by Christ is King

People that think judeo-Christian is a thing, do.

---

I am pro Judeo/Christian values.

Christ is King.

---

This post is proving that Judeo and Christian values do not in fact line up. Jews do not believe Christ is King while Christians do and neither side will ever compromise on these issues. Jews still follow OT Deuteronomy and Leviticus ceremonial and civil laws in addition to following the Talmud while Christians only follow the moral laws from those books and believe in absolute forgiveness through Jesus Christ through faith while also following the words of James, Peter, and Paul regarding our behavior in the sanctification process.

I am convinced most of you who proclaim this statement don't actually understand the Bible at all.

---

This is nonsense. The idea of Judeo/Christian values isn't to say that Jews and Christians practice religion in the same manner or believe all the same things to be true. It's a recognition that the moral foundation of both religions are born out of the same fundamental tenets and that those commonalities are the tenets upon which the West was built.

Are there stark differences? Sure. But the point is to take where there is commonality and build a civilization that can have a strong, moral, cohesive bond despite the differences.

Of course, there's usually ulterior motives for taking umbrage with the idea of Judeo/Christian values.

---

The ceremonial laws from the OT as well as the Jewish oral traditional combined with the Sanctification process as mentioned by Paul, James, and Peter in the NT absolutely 100% do make us quite different. Jews, as a result of these things are very insular in behavior while Christians tend to be the exact opposite as we are commanded to spread the Good News. We are fundamentally at odds with each other in areas that cannot be rectified.

---

Cool. Breaking news. There are beliefs that make each religion different than the other. Got it.

How about we take basic tenets that apply to both, like say the 10 commandments, and build a civilization that allows prosperity for all. Like how we did it despite your nonsense protestations that the Jew and Gentile cannot coexist and have absolutely no commonality in moral belief.

By the way, Jesus was a Jew, and the Bible lays out the role of the Jews as Gods chosen people. Replacement theology is heresy. Those who turn their backs on the Jews are at odds with Christ.

---

John 14:6 "Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

When you turn your back on Jesus, you have forsaken God and cannot receive salvation.

Please tell me more about how we are similar.

---

Guess you'd better start converting others by the tip of the sword because having differing religious beliefs makes any type of social cohesion impossible according to you.

Your argument is so vapid it's ridiculous. Everybody knows that Jews and Christians believe different things. That doesn't mean there is NO overlap between their beliefs or commonalities.

Stop being obtuse.

I don't pay one whit of attention to Candace Owens. Or anyone who may be an anti-Semite.

Christ is King, and I will not be cowed into not speaking the truth. Bark up some other tree.

It was just one example of a stark one IMO. You can wave it off as a red herring if you so choose.

I'll give you one more and leave it at that. Acts chapter 10. You can read Peter's very own transition through the two value structures in real time. From Judaism to Christianity.

Kvetch said:

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Nanomachines son said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

Nanomachines son said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

Nanomachines son said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

cr06gis said:

---

Christians don't get offended by Christ is King

People that think judeo-Christian is a thing, do.

---

I am pro Judeo/Christian values.

Christ is King.

---

This post is proving that Judeo and Christian values do not in fact line up. Jews do not believe Christ is King while Christians do and neither side will ever compromise on these issues. Jews still follow OT Deuteronomy and Leviticus ceremonial and civil laws in addition to following the Talmud while Christians only follow the moral laws from those books and believe in absolute forgiveness through Jesus Christ through faith while also following the words of James, Peter, and Paul regarding our behavior in the sanctification process.

I am convinced most of you who proclaim this statement don't actually understand the Bible at all.

---

This is nonsense. The idea of Judeo/Christian values isn't to say that Jews and Christians practice religion in the same manner or believe all the same things to be true. It's a recognition that the moral foundation of both religions are born out of the same fundamental tenets and that those commonalities are the tenets upon which the West was built.

Are there stark differences? Sure. But the point is to take where there is commonality and build a civilization that can have a strong, moral, cohesive bond despite the differences.

Of course, there's usually ulterior motives for taking umbrage with the idea of Judeo/Christian values.

---

The ceremonial laws from the OT as well as the Jewish oral traditional combined with the Sanctification process as mentioned by Paul, James, and Peter in the NT absolutely 100% do make us quite different. Jews, as a result of these things are very insular in behavior while Christians tend to be the exact opposite as we are commanded to spread the Good News. We are fundamentally at odds with each other in areas that cannot be rectified.

---

Cool. Breaking news. There are beliefs that make each religion different than the other. Got it.

How about we take basic tenets that apply to both, like say the 10 commandments, and build a civilization that allows prosperity for all. Like how we did it despite your nonsense protestations that the Jew and Gentile cannot coexist and have absolutely no commonality in moral belief.

By the way, Jesus was a Jew, and the Bible lays out the role of the Jews as Gods chosen people. Replacement theology is heresy. Those who turn their backs on the Jews are at odds with Christ.

---

John 14:6 "Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

When you turn your back on Jesus, you have forsaken God and cannot receive salvation.

Please tell me more about how we are similar.

---

Guess you'd better start converting others by the tip of the sword because having differing religious beliefs makes any type of social cohesion impossible according to you.

Your argument is so vapid it's ridiculous. Everybody knows that Jews and Christians believe different things. That doesn't mean there is NO overlap between their beliefs or commonalities.

Stop being obtuse.

---

So you admit we're different. Thanks for agreeing with me.

The far right and the far left play for the same team….both ends hate the Jews

Yukon Cornelius said:

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https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/abortion-in-jewish-thought/

Most American Jews strongly support legalized abortion: A 2015 Pew Research Forum survey found that 83 percent of American Jews, more than any other religious group, say abortion "should be legal in all/most cases."

Eta: this is not meant as an indictment, I'm offering no opinion here about the views one way or another. But merely highlighting there are much larger differences than people realize between Judaism and Christianity.

It's also evident in the voting patterns which not surprisingly leaves a lot of conservative Christians perplexed on why there is a such stark voting difference.

---

Isn't that the same percentage of orthodox Jews versus cultural Jews? Cultural Jews are oddly the most liberal group out there.

There's nothing odd about it.

Orthodox Jews are much more like orthodox/catholic/liturgical protestants.

Non-orthdox Jews are not religious and it is silly to compare them to religious christians

AgBQ-00 said:

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Christ is King. He is the King of kings. The Lord of lords. He has defeated death hell and the grave. He reigns for eternity.

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Amen

Jesus of Nazareth would be embarrassed at the things done in his name by the MAGA sycophants.

Christ is King. Satan has his minions here on earth.

Yukon Cornelius said:

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Roughly 1930 years past that point. Give or take a few

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2025-1930 = Domitian. Woship him as a god or die.

But it still applies today and you will have to.make the choice

Is Christ king? Yes he is.

Did the queen of grifters Candace Owens start using the phrase to stir up trouble at her former employer? Yes she did.

It doesn't matter if the phrase is correct or not, using it or anything else to stir up discord at your place of employment is not protected speech nor is it a religious matter.

Has it been coopted by Owens' followers, many of whom are actual white supremacists, anti-Semites, neo-Nazis, etc? Yes it has. As others have noted, Owens goes to it anytime she is losing an argument. Her followers use it simply to troll, and to get gullible Christians to repeat thinking they're doing the right thing.

If Owens thought yelling "Hail Satan" or "Allah Akbar" would further her grift, she would do it in a heartbeat. She is not doing to try to further Christ; she is doing it for her own ends and nothing else because of her hatred of Jews.

People who blindly repeat it and think they're somehow are defending Jesus need to realize that the way Owens and her ilk use it are using the Lord's name in vain. It is no different than using GD for JC as a profanity.

AgBQ-00 said:

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Christ is King. He is the King of kings. The Lord of lords. He has defeated death hell and the grave. He reigns for eternity.

---

And if he showed up tomorrow, he would fill both political parties full of hot lead.

Aggie Dad Sip said:

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Jesus of Nazareth would be embarrassed at the things done in his name by the MAGA sycophants.

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But totally cool with the cult of death that sacrifices babies on the altar of "women's rights?"

Try again, commie.

Champion of Fireball said:

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Aggie Dad Sip said:

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Jesus of Nazareth would be embarrassed at the things done in his name by the MAGA sycophants.

---

But totally cool with the cult of death that sacrifices babies on the altar of "women's rights?"

Try again, commie.

---

In his day, what did he think of the conservatives who believed in the rule of law? Go look it up. I've got time.

Jordan Peterson has been a little sketchy lately. I think the stress of fighting the left for decades has worn him down.

f1ghtintexasaggie said:

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Genuinely shocked by those responses from Klavan and JP.

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The Klavan one is particularly odd.

More of a Jesus is Lord guy myself.

Edit: LORD

txags92 said:

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If only there were a forum dedicated to discussing topics like religion…

https://texags.com/forums/15

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Actually R&P has been hijacked years ago by atheists and pseudo-Christian libs that got tired of being proven wrong time and time again on geopolitical issues (so they read F16, but really only post on R&P).

Both Klavan and Peterson are right in what they're saying, they just chose the wrong medium in which to express it. It is far too easy to take something out of context on X and completely subvert the meaning of what someone is saying.

How the phrase is being used now is a shield from criticism. "The earth is flat and the sky is blue. What, you disagree with me? Are you saying the sky isn't blue? Are you an idiot?"

Nanomachines son said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

cr06gis said:

---

Christians don't get offended by Christ is King

People that think judeo-Christian is a thing, do.

---

I am pro Judeo/Christian values.

Christ is King.

---

This post is proving that Judeo and Christian values do not in fact line up. Jews do not believe Christ is King while Christians do and neither side will ever compromise on these issues. Jews still follow OT Deuteronomy and Leviticus ceremonial and civil laws in addition to following the Talmud while Christians only follow the moral laws from those books. Christians also believe in absolute forgiveness through Jesus Christ through faith while also following the words of James, Peter, and Paul regarding our behavior in the sanctification process.

I am convinced most of you who proclaim this statement don't actually understand the Bible at all, don't really do any deep dives into theology, and likely aren't very religious.

---

Putting aside rituals, which are important I know, but are a tool not the purpose, which of the old Testament teachings did Jesus disagree with?

BoydCrowder13 said:

---

Yukon Cornelius said:

---

Here in lies the bigger problem and the devil work IMO. Those people should just be ignored and not an ounce of energy devoted to them. But instead we have this being made into a bigger issue and now we've introduced thought and speech control.

Because people will now second guess if how they speak of Jesus' kingship as offensive. It will happen, which is the desired outcome.

---

I guess. Though I've always heard the Jesus is Lord phrase a lot more than Jesus is King.

And it is a lot of self styled "Christian nationalists" online. Owens is just the ringleader. Honestly pisses me off to see them using Him as a prop for their troll battles.

In complete agreement with Klavan.

---

What defines a Christian Nationalist?

Who is out there claiming to be a Christian Nationalist?

Yukon Cornelius said:

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I agree but I thought the OP was about Pastors denouncing the phrase. Maybe I misunderstood. But I see it as early examples of self censorship. And it's coming from religious leaders.

---

It is 100% not about denouncing the phrase "Christ is King".

It is 100% about people using empty words to shut down valid criticism.

That is what some of the posters on this thread are trying to share with you. You have to put these comments into some context to understand where they are coming from.

Saying Christ is King is a true statement.

Repeatedly responding by shouting "Christ is King", with the insulation that you should shut the hell up, because who the hell are you talking to, when someone asks you why you have a guy on your show that is wanted in foreign countries for rape, is not a good thing. It is a very evil thing.

The Hefty Lefty said:

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txags92 said:

---

If only there were a forum dedicated to discussing topics like religion…

https://texags.com/forums/15

---

Actually R&P has been hijacked years ago by atheists and pseudo-Christian libs that got tired of being proven wrong time and time again on geopolitical issues (so they read F16, but really only post on R&P).

---

I miss the old days when Seamaster was telling the libs over there that Oberfell was going to lead to our culture going downhill on a rocket sled, and the libs responding that the slippery slope argument always fails.

Big chips on shoulders over there nowadays.

Rapier108 said:

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Is Christ king? Yes he is.

Did the queen of grifters Candace Owens start using the phrase to stir up trouble at her former employer? Yes she did.

It doesn't matter if the phrase is correct or not, using it or anything else to stir up discord at your place of employment is not protected speech nor is it a religious matter.

Has it been coopted by Owens' followers, many of whom are actual white supremacists, anti-Semites, neo-Nazis, etc? Yes it has. As others have noted, Owens goes to it anytime she is losing an argument. Her followers use it simply to troll, and to get gullible Christians to repeat thinking they're doing the right thing.

If Owens thought yelling "Hail Satan" or "Allah Akbar" would further her grift, she would do it in a heartbeat. She is not doing to try to further Christ; she is doing it for her own ends and nothing else because of her hatred of Jews.

People who blindly repeat it and think they're somehow are defending Jesus need to realize that the way Owens and her ilk use it are using the Lord's name in vain. It is no different than using GD for JC as a profanity.

---

Why would the Daily Wire have a problem with the phrase "Christ is King"?

I'm thinking beyond that. I'm concerned with self censorship of the truth. Not about a couple of modern day shock jocks. It's already being compared to domestic terrorism? Really? This is how thought control works. And why is it an offensive phrase anyways? Because there's truth to it. But instead ADL is raising the issue so weak minded Christians start self censorship. It's very likely that spreads.

Old McDonald said:

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for the "far right" i'm talking about, it goes a step beyond marxism to jews, whom they believe are the source of marxism and all other manner of societal maladies.

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Soooo hating Jews is the one thing the far left and right agree on. Weird.

Yukon Cornelius said:

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I'm thinking beyond that. I'm concerned with self censorship of the truth. Not about a couple of modern day shock jocks. It's already being compared to domestic terrorism? Really? This is how thought control works. And why is it an offensive phrase anyways? Because there's truth to it. But instead ADL is raising the issue so weak minded Christians start self censorship. It's very likely that spreads.

---

Zero people up in here think that the phrase "Christ is King" is offensive.

We have three whole pages dedicated to that.

I fully reject any line of discussion that believes ADL is out to get Christians in any way.

I fully reject any line of discussion that Christians that don't speak out against Jewish organizations, or that Christians that spend more time trying to find things in common with people that we have traditional family values in common with, are weak minded.

I fully recognize all of that discussion as anti-semitic "thought control" (to use your term) bullcrap.

You will find few sympathizers with that point of view here.

Christ is King.

I have lots of love for my Jewish friends, and appreciate everything I have in common with them.

The end.