Aston04 said:

---

Anonymous Source said:

---

Just so I'm clear....

Campus allows Richard Spencer to speak and we have no issue.
It's the guys dressed as women that are the cause for alarm.

---

Drag shows are viewed by many as denigrating to women. I'm not sure if that is dispositive... But you conveniently left that part out.

---

"Viewed by many"...except apparently by women, based on the crowds that turn out for these things.

BMX Bandit said:

---

its not as clear cut win as you think. several issues.

is drag expressive speech? one court in texas has said "no" (the rest all say "yes")

is the speech banned protected speech or does it fall into obscenity which is not protected?

is this narrowly tailored to meet the compelling interest of the state in protecting female students under title IX?

---

I am sure that there are things that could go on in a drag show that could start bumping up into obscenity laws. But is Mrs. Doubtfire or Tootsie obscene?

Drag is something I just don't get...but that is not required.

(As long as it is age appropriate/doesn't involve minor children.)

Quote:

---

But is Mrs. Doubtfire or Tootsie obscene?

---

I have not seen either of those plays, but I'm assuming there is nothing sexual in them.

if thats the case, neither is prohibited by this ban.

it applies to drag shows that:

that involve biological males dressing in women's clothing, wearing exaggerated female make up and/or exaggerated prosthetics meant to parody the female body type, and that are:

open to the public;
involve sexualized, vulgar or lewd conduct; and
involve conduct that demeans women.

BMX Bandit said:

---

Quote:

---

But is Mrs. Doubtfire or Tootsie obscene?

---

I have not seen either of those plays, but I'm assuming there is nothing sexual in them.

if thats the case, neither is prohibited by this ban.

---

OPAS brought the play "Chicago" to Rudder Center.

Any drag show would have a fair amount of leeway before it approached the inferred sexuality in the stage play.

BMX Bandit said:

---

its not as clear cut win as you think. several issues.

is drag expressive speech? one court in texas has said "no" (the rest all say "yes")

is the speech banned protected speech or does it fall into obscenity which is not protected?

is this narrowly tailored to meet the compelling interest of the state in protecting female students under title IX?

---

Is drag expressive speech? You answered your own question with your parenthetical there, as even the 6th Circuit, in affirming Tennessee's drag show ban, said it was expressive speech, and instead relied on a reasonableness assessment in regards to a 17 year old.

Is the speech protected or obscenity? Well, it's expressive speech, and as such not obscene. It does not appeal solely to the "prurient interest", it is not patently offensive (even hardcore pornography has been found to not be patently offensive), and, at a minimum, drag shows have significant political value. Not obscene, so protected.

The drag ban is not narrowly tailored. Protecting female students under Title IX can be achieved in many different ways without banning protected speech, this is not a hard question at all.

GeorgiAg said:

---

Steadfast men! We are going to take the Brits by surprise! We will fight for our God-given right to dress like women! In the future, scientists may discover a way for us to take drugs so our bodies can grow boobies and then we will fight to get tampons in our bathrooms!

---

And our definition of men will no longer be confined to whether or not you are born with a *****.

Quote:

---

You answered your own question with your parenthetical there

---

i didn't answer my own question, I pointed out that one court has said it is not. I do not think Rosenthal will agree, but it is an issue to be determined.

BMX Bandit said:

---

Quote:

---

You answered your own question with your parenthetical there

---

i didn't answer my own question, I pointed out that one court has said it is not. I do not think Rosenthal will agree, but it is an issue to be determined.

---

Okay, to answer it more clearly, drag shows are expressive speech, as they include nonverbal activities to convey ideas. If a shirt saying F*** the Draft is expressive speech, then so is a drag show.

Quote:

---

If a shirt saying F*** the Draft is expressive speech, then so is a drag show.

---

that shirt would be clear speech. its not expressive conduct.

BMX Bandit said:

---

Quote:

---

If a shirt saying F*** the Draft is expressive speech, then so is a drag show.

---

that shirt would be clear speech. its not expressive conduct.

---

Shirts can talk?

But really, burning draft cards, armbands, flag burning, all are expressive speech.

jacketman03 said:

---

BMX Bandit said:

---

Quote:

---

If a shirt saying F*** the Draft is expressive speech, then so is a drag show.

---

that shirt would be clear speech. its not expressive conduct.

---

Shirts can talk?

But really, burning draft cards, armbands, flag burning, all are expressive speech.

---

books can't talk either. does not make them "Expressive conduct." they are speech, like the shirt.

can't tell if that was a serious response.

Hearing held yesterday. No ruling yet as far as I can tell.

As alluded to above, whichever way it comes down, you can count on a thoughtful responsed opinion from Rosenthal

As you predicted, we have a well thought out and reasoned ruling. It's a bad sign for A&M when the opening paragraph is about encouraging free speech at college campuses.
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.txsd.1994726/gov.uscourts.txsd.1994726.24.0.pdf

Thanks for the link.

Interesting that she made the distinction from the Kacsmaryk west Texas A&M case. There, children were expected to attend.

"The Queer Empowerment Council." You're witnessing the death of a culture.

BMX Bandit said:

---

jacketman03 said:

---

BMX Bandit said:

---

Quote:

---

If a shirt saying F*** the Draft is expressive speech, then so is a drag show.

---

that shirt would be clear speech. its not expressive conduct.

---

Shirts can talk?

But really, burning draft cards, armbands, flag burning, all are expressive speech.

---

books can't talk either. does not make them "Expressive conduct." they are speech, like the shirt.

can't tell if that was a serious response.

---

When boots are size 17 X wide, like mine, they're "expressive".

libros, no botas, ese

They aren't being denied anything based on gender identity or any other protected class BS. They are being denied due to the content of the event and TAMU has every right to deny it based on the content of the event(s). We would not allow a child molestation and rape event, a bestiality event, an S&M bondage show, genital piercing exhibit, etc., etc.

BMX Bandit said:

---

libros, no botas, ese

---

Chingau, mea culpa....

TAMU Greek life needs to host a bikini car wash sponsored by Twin Peaks in front of Kyle Field in response to this.

Jarrin' Jay said:

---

They aren't being denied anything based on gender identity or any other protected class BS. They are being denied due to the content of the event and TAMU has every right to deny it based on the content of the event(s). We would not allow a child molestation and rape event, a bestiality event, an S&M bondage show, genital piercing exhibit, etc., etc.

---

If any of those things were happening, you'd have a valid point.

LOL - ignore. https://t.co/00dNflEdee

— Catturd ™ (@catturd2) March 24, 2025

Jarrin' Jay said:

---

They aren't being denied anything based on gender identity or any other protected class BS. They are being denied due to the content of the event and TAMU has every right to deny it based on the content of the event(s). We would not allow a child molestation and rape event, a bestiality event, an S&M bondage show, genital piercing exhibit, etc., etc.

---

And we're still not.

Not a lawyer, but I think they would have been better off going after copyright infringement on the name and a statement that any use of any words or phrases that cause the event to be associated with Texas A&M will cause the event to be cancelled.

Jarrin' Jay said:

---

They aren't being denied anything based on gender identity or any other protected class BS. They are being denied due to the content of the event and TAMU has every right to deny it based on the content of the event(s). We would not allow a child molestation and rape event, a bestiality event, an S&M bondage show, genital piercing exhibit, etc., etc.

---

Is this poor bait or are you actually unable to tell the difference between adults performing a drag show and a mass rape of children and animals?

Omperlodge said:

---

Not a lawyer, but I think they would have been better off going after copyright infringement on the name and a statement that any use of any words or phrases that cause the event to be associated with Texas A&M will cause the event to be cancelled.

---

There's a guy on the other thread that is having conversatins with the A&M legal department on this. Hopefully he fills us in on the status.


(Of course, if this theory were successful, it would only result in the name being changed. Not cancellation of the event.)

BMX Bandit said:

---

Omperlodge said:

---

Not a lawyer, but I think they would have been better off going after copyright infringement on the name and a statement that any use of any words or phrases that cause the event to be associated with Texas A&M will cause the event to be cancelled.

---

There's a guy on the other thread that is having conversatins with the A&M legal department on this. Hopefully he fills us in on the status.


(Of course, if this theory were successful, it would only result in the name being changed. Not cancellation of the event.)

---

Are we to assume that A&M's OGC is overlooking the obvious ground ball of copyright infringement?

Omperlodge said:

---

Not a lawyer, but I think they would have been better off going after copyright infringement on the name and a statement that any use of any words or phrases that cause the event to be associated with Texas A&M will cause the event to be cancelled.

---

There is no copyright infringement as Aggieland is not trademarked and Draggieland is put on by a recognized student group and able to use A&M marks for their events

If OGC things there is any copyright issue here, then we need a completely new OGC in place! Lol. Maybe DOGE??

Should have simply banned any overtly sexually explicit show on campus.

Would have been a lot harder for them to whine that the alphabet soup crowd was being targeted.

And the OGC is worthless.

If explicit degrading "woman face" is required by law, then we should immediately schedule a black face minstrel show.

Some may be offended, but MY OH MY, why should we care about dehumanizing and degrading others?

Quote:

---

lPaintiffs assert that the discipline imposed by GMU unconstitutionally punishes expression protected by the First *794 Amendment. Defendants, however, argue that the behavior of the plaintiffs at the "Dress A Sig" contest was not expressive and therefore, not protected speech. Defendants contend that only political and social speech are protected by the First Amendment and that this conduct is neither. However, the Supreme Court has held that activity such as nude dancing and performance in black face are protected expression under the First Amendment. Barnes v. Glen Theatre, Inc., ___ U.S. ___, 111 S. Ct. 2456, 115 L. Ed. 2d 504 (1991); Schad v. Borough of Mt. Ephraim, 452 U.S. 61, 101 S. Ct. 2176, 68 L. Ed. 2d 671 (1981); Berger v. Battaglia, 779 F.2d 992 (4th Cir.1985), cert. denied, 476 U.S. 1159, 106 S. Ct. 2278, 90 L. Ed. 2d 720 (1986).

---

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp/773/792/1608516/

Nah, don't get mad... get even.

It's time for a good, old fashioned burlesque show.



What's good for the goose, has to be good for the gander.

They aren't exposing themselves like you make it out to seem.

zephyr88 said:

---

Nah, don't get mad... get even.

It's time for a good, old fashioned burlesque show.



What's good for the goose, has to be good for the gander.

---

I support this move. Get a student org to sponsor it, and you're set.