Gaetz: the experience issue

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twk
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I'm not terribly interested in the sex scandal angle that seems to be the focus of all the talk concerning Gaetz. What I am concerned about is his lack of experience. It's hard to find any real reporting on his experience, but this article from PolitiFact (a biased source, for sure), does seem to have the most complete run down. And what I see doesn't indicate to me that Gaetz is some kind of legal whiz kid. Here's the rundown:

https://www.politifact.com/article/2024/nov/15/is-matt-gaetz-accomplished-attorney-digging/
Quote:

He earned a law degree from the College of William & Mary in 2007 and was admitted into the Florida Bar in 2008. He worked for the law firm AnchorsGordon (previously known as Keefe, Anchors & Gordon) in Fort Walton Beach, Florida, which is part of the congressional district Gaetz represented.

To gauge the scope of Gaetz's legal career, we looked through court records for the Florida Bar; Fort Walton Beach's Okaloosa County and neighboring Walton County; MyFloridaCounty.com; and the legal websites Justia and CourtListener.

Messages left at Gaetz's former House office, Johnson's office, AnchorsGordon, and the Trump campaign and transition press office were not returned.

We found that Gaetz argued at least seven cases in his home county on a variety of matters; that he was 2-0 in appellate cases; that he's been delinquent on his bar dues but is current now; and that he received a critical letter from the bar but was not formally disciplined. He also had more than a dozen traffic-related charges, about half as a teenager and half after he became a lawyer.

Gaetz was the attorney of record in at least seven cases at the trial court level

From 2009 to 2016, Gaetz argued at least seven cases at the trial level in Okaloosa County. (For part of that time, Gaetz was serving in the Florida House, but working as a lawyer is not unusual for a legislator; Florida has a part-time Legislature, so it's common for legislators to keep day jobs.)

The seven cases in court records ranged widely in substance. In 2008, Gaetz represented two separate clients for speeding tickets. In 2009, he represented a local restaurant, the Crab Trap, in a workers' compensation case. That same year, he began representing a local aircraft maintenance company that was pursuing a negligence case.

Starting in 2009, he represented Okaloosa County in a civil case against the city of Valparaiso. In 2010, Gaetz represented a client over a money dispute of less than $15,000. And in 2016, he represented a client involved in a custody case.

We were unable to access a full list of cases in neighboring Walton County, but he also had at least one more case as the attorney of record in that jurisdiction.

Gaetz may also have worked on other cases for more senior lawyers at the firm without being noted as an attorney of record. Not everything a lawyer does ends up in court, so Gaetz was likely working on other clients' legal business outside of court cases during his time with the firm.

"Some junior lawyers do nothing but legal research, so Rep. Gaetz's record at the firm is not unusual," said Dave Aronberg, the state attorney for Palm Beach County, Florida, and a former Democratic state senator. "I knew Matt in the state legislature, but I never heard anything about his legal career."

Gaetz took two cases to appeal and won both times

In one case, plaintiffs James and Melanie Nipper appealed a trial court ruling barring them from operating a skydiving business on their 290-acre farm in Walton County. With Gaetz as the lead attorney, the appeals court announced that it was overruling the trial court in January 2017, around the time Gaetz was starting in the U.S. House.

In the other appeals case, Gaetz represented Suzanne Harris, who had sued Walton County for hiring an attorney without the public notification required under Florida's "sunshine" transparency law. Harris had won at the trial level and the appeals court upheld the decision. The case sprang from the county's actions during a controversial land purchase.
That's an incredibly slim resume for someone seeking to be Attorney General. If Gaetz had executive experience, maybe that would compensate for the lack of legal achievement, but his career as a legislator doesn't do that. I don't think the odds are very good that Gaetz is going to have the experience necessary to run out the problem folks while keeping the department on track to do the job it is required to do, especially considering the fact that one of the chief ways Democrats will try to stop Trump will be through litigation. Do you really want Matt Gaetz in charge of that litigation?
CyclingAg82
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He won't be practicing law at this level, obviously. His main task is to clean out the DOJ of the washingtonized rats that infest that Department. His deputies will keep him informed of the litigation issues.

Also, be an unintimidated spokesperson for 47's mandate to drain the swamp.

Just my opinion as to how things should shake out there.



NPH-
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I bleed red, but I do question Gaetz's experience as well. But, experience isn't everything. Surrounding yourself with the right people is, and maybe he can do that too.
doubledog
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Merrick Garland has a allegedly ideal experience and we all know how that turned out.
Spotted Ag
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"Experienced" choices for these positions are what got us to the environment of govt bloat that we have today.
twk
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CyclingAg82 said:

He won't be practicing law at this level, obviously. His main task is to clean out the DOJ of the washingtonized rats that infest that Department.


He's not been nominated for head of Human Resources, he's been nominated for Attorney General. I'm happy to read stories about folks who are resigning voluntarily just because he has been nominated, but there is more to the job than that. Fixing the DOJ is a long term job that is going to require a lot of work out of the spotlight. That doesn't fit Gaetz at all.
Snake Jazz
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As already pointed out, he won't be trying cases. He would be the administrative head of the organization. His legal resume is thin, but it probably isn't that important.
twk
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doubledog said:

Merrick Garland has a allegedly ideal experience and we all know how that turned out.

Garland's problem is that he's a leftist, not that he has experience. Are there no conservatives with experience?
Ellis Wyatt
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doubledog said:

Merrick Garland has a allegedly ideal experience and we all know how that turned out.

And Eric Holder.

Completely meaningless criticism.
J. Walter Weatherman
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Snake Jazz said:

As already pointed out, he won't be trying cases. He would be the administrative head of the organization. His legal resume is thin, but it probably isn't that important.


What is his administrative experience?
normalhorn
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Is Gaetz a canary in a coal mine? Did Trump offer him, knowing that he may face stiff competition in getting confirmed, all the while being able to root out more swamp creatures (especially in the GOP) that vocally oppose him? Then, Trump would have to go out and find a new candidate, while holding the first rejection over the Senate's head?
...take it easy on me, I'm a normal horn
oldcrow91
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When I first saw it, I was thinking it was the art of the deal thing.

Start with Gaetz, then end up with Ken Paxton or whoever is also hated by democrats.
BlueTaze
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Lacking experience in what specifically?
What failures in his ability would you foresee?

Sounded like he partied pretty hard and violated office decorum before he got married. But outside of that, he has been nails in all the committees and roles he has held.
twk
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BlueTaze said:

Lacking experience in what specifically?
What failures in his ability would you foresee?

Sounded like he partied pretty hard and violated office decorum before he got married. But outside of that, he has been nails in all the committees and roles he has held.
In the practice of law. He's being nominated for Attorney General.

Even to the extent that the AG delegates most of his responsibilities, spotting talent, and inspiring talented lawyers to come work for the department, are necessary qualities. Running off the deadwood is only half the job: you've got to find the right replacements or it's all for naught.
DTP02
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Snake Jazz said:

As already pointed out, he won't be trying cases. He would be the administrative head of the organization. His legal resume is thin, but it probably isn't that important.


Couldn't you say that his administrative resume is more thin than his legal?

I think people underestimate the gargantuan task that it is to run these bloated bureaucracies, and if you want to reform one, then it's even more difficult.
LegalDrugPusher
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twk said:

I'm not terribly interested in the sex scandal angle that seems to be the focus of all the talk concerning Gaetz. What I am concerned about is his lack of experience. It's hard to find any real reporting on his experience, but this article from PolitiFact (a biased source, for sure), does seem to have the most complete run down. And what I see doesn't indicate to me that Gaetz is some kind of legal whiz kid. Here's the rundown:

https://www.politifact.com/article/2024/nov/15/is-matt-gaetz-accomplished-attorney-digging/
Quote:

He earned a law degree from the College of William & Mary in 2007 and was admitted into the Florida Bar in 2008. He worked for the law firm AnchorsGordon (previously known as Keefe, Anchors & Gordon) in Fort Walton Beach, Florida, which is part of the congressional district Gaetz represented.

To gauge the scope of Gaetz's legal career, we looked through court records for the Florida Bar; Fort Walton Beach's Okaloosa County and neighboring Walton County; MyFloridaCounty.com; and the legal websites Justia and CourtListener.

Messages left at Gaetz's former House office, Johnson's office, AnchorsGordon, and the Trump campaign and transition press office were not returned.

We found that Gaetz argued at least seven cases in his home county on a variety of matters; that he was 2-0 in appellate cases; that he's been delinquent on his bar dues but is current now; and that he received a critical letter from the bar but was not formally disciplined. He also had more than a dozen traffic-related charges, about half as a teenager and half after he became a lawyer.

Gaetz was the attorney of record in at least seven cases at the trial court level

From 2009 to 2016, Gaetz argued at least seven cases at the trial level in Okaloosa County. (For part of that time, Gaetz was serving in the Florida House, but working as a lawyer is not unusual for a legislator; Florida has a part-time Legislature, so it's common for legislators to keep day jobs.)

The seven cases in court records ranged widely in substance. In 2008, Gaetz represented two separate clients for speeding tickets. In 2009, he represented a local restaurant, the Crab Trap, in a workers' compensation case. That same year, he began representing a local aircraft maintenance company that was pursuing a negligence case.

Starting in 2009, he represented Okaloosa County in a civil case against the city of Valparaiso. In 2010, Gaetz represented a client over a money dispute of less than $15,000. And in 2016, he represented a client involved in a custody case.

We were unable to access a full list of cases in neighboring Walton County, but he also had at least one more case as the attorney of record in that jurisdiction.

Gaetz may also have worked on other cases for more senior lawyers at the firm without being noted as an attorney of record. Not everything a lawyer does ends up in court, so Gaetz was likely working on other clients' legal business outside of court cases during his time with the firm.

"Some junior lawyers do nothing but legal research, so Rep. Gaetz's record at the firm is not unusual," said Dave Aronberg, the state attorney for Palm Beach County, Florida, and a former Democratic state senator. "I knew Matt in the state legislature, but I never heard anything about his legal career."

Gaetz took two cases to appeal and won both times

In one case, plaintiffs James and Melanie Nipper appealed a trial court ruling barring them from operating a skydiving business on their 290-acre farm in Walton County. With Gaetz as the lead attorney, the appeals court announced that it was overruling the trial court in January 2017, around the time Gaetz was starting in the U.S. House.

In the other appeals case, Gaetz represented Suzanne Harris, who had sued Walton County for hiring an attorney without the public notification required under Florida's "sunshine" transparency law. Harris had won at the trial level and the appeals court upheld the decision. The case sprang from the county's actions during a controversial land purchase.
That's an incredibly slim resume for someone seeking to be Attorney General. If Gaetz had executive experience, maybe that would compensate for the lack of legal achievement, but his career as a legislator doesn't do that. I don't think the odds are very good that Gaetz is going to have the experience necessary to run out the problem folks while keeping the department on track to do the job it is required to do, especially considering the fact that one of the chief ways Democrats will try to stop Trump will be through litigation. Do you really want Matt Gaetz in charge of that litigation?


We're living in a society today where lack of political experiences Really not that big of a deal. It's actually a qualification.
Ag87H2O
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Donald Trump won in a landslide with a mandate from the American public to clean out the cesspool.

Matt Gaetz is Donald Trump's choice to do that at the DOJ as Attorney General. He should get to pick his team.

Unless there is something irrefutably illegal in his past, Senators should vote to confirm him whether they like him personally or not. This isn't a lifetime appointment like a judge. It's a 3-4 year job at best.

If he ends up being a bad choice then it is on Trump and he will get the blame for it.
CyclingAg82
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twk said:

CyclingAg82 said:

He won't be practicing law at this level, obviously. His main task is to clean out the DOJ of the washingtonized rats that infest that Department.


He's not been nominated for head of Human Resources, he's been nominated for Attorney General. I'm happy to read stories about folks who are resigning voluntarily just because he has been nominated, but there is more to the job than that. Fixing the DOJ is a long term job that is going to require a lot of work out of the spotlight. That doesn't fit Gaetz at all.
That is not what i said, his agenda will be to follow the President's wishes (those he campaigned on), and de-weaponizing the DoJ starts with cleaning house.

I don't know how that can be any clearer. Obama, Holder, Wray, Garland thru Biden did incredible damage to the DoJ's and the FBI's reputation. Need an outsider who DGAF to go in and clean it up.
Im Gipper
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I think he'd be better served as a "Cleanup the DoJ Swamp Czar" personally.

All of your concerns about his experience are valid.



(Before any of you flip your lid, yes, its Trump's choice and I support the idea the Senate should confirm the President's choice in most every situation, including this one)

I'm Gipper
twk
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Quote:

We're living in a society today where lack of political experiences Really not that big of a deal. It's actually a qualification.
Political experience is the only thing Gaetz has going for him. It's his professional experience that is being questioned here.

Maybe I'm overly sensitive as a lawyer myself, but I had more experience practicing law as a small town lawyer at the age of 42 than Gaetz does. I'm not questioning his instincts; I'm questioning his ability.
lb3
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Experience is overrated in executive roles. If you have talented lieutenants your job as the executive is basically just to set priorities and allocate resources.

Declare the politicization of the federal bureaucracy to be a mortal threat to our democracy and then have your lieutenants build their task forces, unleash the hounds, and report their progress.

Mr. Fingerbottom
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Gaetz was selected for his experience dominating libs, rinos, & cms


His experience in this field is goatd



He will be a phenomenal AG
Ag in Tiger Country
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Gaetz won't be litigating the cases.
The Banned
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Agree with OP. To clean out the DOJ one must know how to navigate the DOJ, or surround yourself with people that can help you. Gaetz's lack of experience gives me a lot of pause that he can. I'm not necessarily against him, but won't be upset if he doesn't make it through the process
BlueTaze
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Gaetz IS an attorney. His job isn't to litigate, its to hire, fire, and manage litigators...to set priorities on which cases to allocate, or not allocate, resources to. He has made many legal arguments in his time on various committees, much better than others who have practiced law in court rooms.
Jeeper79
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There's more to the job than cleaning house. WAY more. You've also got to run the thing. Who honestly thinks Gaetz can do that effectively?
TTUArmy
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Don't let the mainstream media play with your head. They are going to smear and bad mouth every one of Trump's potential appointees as "unqualified" and "dangerous to democracy".

Gaetz is just fine.
HTownAg98
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BlueTaze said:

Gaetz IS an attorney. His job isn't to litigate, it's to hire, fire, and manage litigators...to set priorities on which cases to allocate, or not allocate, resources to.

You're making OP's point. What experience does he have doing any of that? DOJ still has a job to do prosecuting bad people. Gaetz strikes me as someone who's going to start loads of investigations that will be just for show, while neglecting t the one thing it does pretty well.
Cen-Tex
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Jeeper79 said:

There's more to the job than cleaning house. WAY more. You've also got to run the thing. Who honestly thinks Gaetz can do that effectively?
How does he compare to the idiots that preceded him?
HTownAg98
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TTUArmy said:

Don't let the mainstream media play with your head. They are going to smear and bad mouth every one of Trump's potential appointees as "unqualified" and "dangerous to democracy".

Gaetz is just fine.

Who's been badmouthing Rubio? Everyone seems to think he'd be just fine in that position.

It's ok to push back on a whackadoodle pick.
BlueTaze
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Jeeper79 said:

There's more to the job than cleaning house. WAY more. You've also got to run the thing. Who honestly thinks Gaetz can do that effectively?


The only risk to Gaetz having issues running things is the fact that most DOJ lawyers lean left and have no ethics. Like the lawyers at FBI who undermined Trump, before taking jobs at CNN and MSNBC.

Not long ago everyone was criticizing Gaetz for leading the effort to replace McCarthy. We were told it would lead to total chaos and destroy the party. Those critics were all wrong.
akm91
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The Banned said:

Agree with OP. To clean out the DOJ one must know how to navigate the DOJ, or surround yourself with people that can help you. Gaetz's lack of experience gives me a lot of pause that he can. I'm not necessarily against him, but won't be upset if he doesn't make it through the process
He was on the House Judiciary Committee and probably has a pretty good idea on how to navigate the DOJ
"And liberals, being liberals, will double down on failure." - dedgod
DTP02
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Jeeper79 said:

There's more to the job than cleaning house. WAY more. You've also got to run the thing. Who honestly thinks Gaetz can do that effectively?


He'll need a phenomenal executive staff to have any shot at making it work. Is he the kind of guy who will attract that staff and manage it effectively?

Admittedly, however, it's a bit of a catch 22 situation, where if you want to reform a massive institution can you accomplish that with only people who were raised in it?

I'd prefer to see someone with significant prior DOJ or similar experience but who has raised concerns about how it had become politicized.
BoydCrowder13
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Lack of experience was a selling point for Trump back in 2016.

But even Trump admits that it put him at a huge disadvantage. He nominated the wrong people. He didn't know how to navigate the system.

Gaetz was a lawyer for a minute, then a state rep, then a Congressman. His accomplishments are that he talks a big game on social media.

He is about to be in charge of thousands of people and directing the country's legal apparatus.

He is going to be at a disadvantage. There is more the to gig that arguing with AOC on X.
Ellis Wyatt
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The Banned said:

Agree with OP. To clean out the DOJ one must know how to navigate the DOJ, or surround yourself with people that can help you.
Rod Rosenstein, et al were masters at navigating the DOJ. Trump absolutely needs to bring in an outsider.
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