uneedastraw said:

---

My opinion is 2020 the Dems harvested votes by going door to door in areas they knew would not go vote. T they were well funded and had a perfect plan for that environment . It went unchecked in 2020 because the republicans were lazy and caught off guard. Notice the Latino and black vote differences? That wasn't going to fly this election cycle so it could not happen at near the level that it did.

---

Agree on all this, but they didn't have to go door to door, all they had to do was create them, send them in. There was zero chain of custody.

Time wrote a whole article about how progressive interests raised a whole bunch of money to "save" the 2020 election which they did by making sure 37 states had the rules and the funding to implement the way they wanted the election run with 2 goals in mind. First almost certainly, to have an election suited to their own political machine and maximize those votes, and secondly (which is outright stated) to make sure that Donald Trump could not possibly contest the results.

The "hero" of the piece, a political strategist for the AFL-CIO, Im pretty sure can still be heard ranting and raving about Donald Trump, MAGA, the Supreme Court, etc on political podcasts to this very day.

The article also outlined what they did to make sure their version of reality was the only one that could be found on facebook, twitter, etc.

https://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/

Long story short, they were allowed to create all the systems and rules etc in 37 states to maximize the number of progressive votes in 2020 and people kinda went along with it because covid.

2008and1 said:

---

Apathy returned.

---

I guess they had apathy for Obama as well

HTownAg98 said:

---

You don't "cheat" a 15 million delta in votes. The manpower that would take is hard to fathom. What did happen in 2020 is the rules were changed to allow people that had never voted before vote in 2020 because it was super easy to do so, and those people didn't show up in 2024. If you want to call that cheating, fine, but the votes were legitimate.

Voter apathy, drastic reductions in mail-in voting, and a seismic shift in the hispanic vote due to illegal immigration is why Harris lost.

---

The manpower it would take isn't so unfathomable considering Mark Zuckerberg dropped half a billion dollars into the election system to "help," count the votes, buddy.

Pull your head out. It was stolen. Period

The Kraken said:

---

Trump received about 3 million less votes than he did 4 years ago. How do you account for that?

---

I wait for all the vote totals to be finalized

Stressboy said:

---

YokelRidesAgain said:

---

Stressboy said:

---

Maybe a lot of those "first time voters" in 2020 really didn't fill out their own ballots.

---

I do not believe for a moment that a massive scheme, a la "itzaconspiracy, ballot printer goes brrrrrrr!" made 15 million ballots materialize from thin air.

On the other hand, I'm sure that there were plenty of votes in 2020 where one person filled out a ballot for herself and her spouse, or an adult child "helped" an elderly relative vote. On both sides.

Heck, my ex-wife's mom requested an absentee ballot for ex-wife and voted (for Dubya) in Broward County, FL in 2000. Was that fraud? Yup. A felony? Yup. A contributor to a vote margin of less than 600 votes that altered the course of American history? Yup.

But short of ex-MIL running down to the local FBI office and confessing, it was also entirely untraceable.

2020 was a demonstration that if you make it really, really easy for people to vote, more of them will do so. Most of them are on the up and up, but the price of that is you accept some percentage of fraud.

Personally, I think that the percentage of people who are willing to be dishonest probably doesn't break that much along party lines, but there's no way to prove that in a statistical sense.

---

If you don't think ballots sent wholesale to non clean voter roll addresses were not abused then I can't help you. Maybe when the votes are all counted it will just be a few million votes difference from 2020 but it's funny that all the suspect stuff happened in 5-7 counties in the country and all of them with mail in ballots.

Clean rolls, better oversight and the silent majority made our argument no longer important. That said republicans need to keep driving more election integrity.

---

4 years, countless lawsuits and investigations, absolutely no proof. It just makes those of us that are life long Republicans look bad when people continue to talk about weird kooky fairytales.

Especially if Trump ends up fairly close to Biden's 2020 number.

BadMoonRisin said:

---

HTownAg98 said:

---

You don't "cheat" a 15 million delta in votes. The manpower that would take is hard to fathom. What did happen in 2020 is the rules were changed to allow people that had never voted before vote in 2020 because it was super easy to do so, and those people didn't show up in 2024. If you want to call that cheating, fine, but the votes were legitimate.

Voter apathy, drastic reductions in mail-in voting, and a seismic shift in the hispanic vote due to illegal immigration is why Harris lost.

---

The manpower it would take isn't so unfathomable considering Mark Zuckerberg dropped half a billion dollars into the election system to "help," count the votes, buddy.

Pull your head out. It was stolen. Period

---

Nah, I'm good. Some of us choose to live in the reality that there will always be some amount of fraud by bad actors, while also acknowledging that forging millions of ballots is next to impossible.

zag213004 said:

---

HTownAg98 said:

---

You don't "cheat" a 15 million delta in votes. The manpower that would take is hard to fathom. What did happen in 2020 is the rules were changed to allow people that had never voted before vote in 2020 because it was super easy to do so, and those people didn't show up in 2024. If you want to call that cheating, fine, but the votes were legitimate.

Voter apathy, drastic reductions in mail-in voting, and a seismic shift in the hispanic vote due to illegal immigration is why Harris lost.

---

Seriously you don't cheat that much and not have that big of a lid to cover it all up. With cheating at that level there wasn't a single lawyer that could gather a 10th of that for evidence?! Take off the tin foil hats people.

HTown, you make great points across the board. Talking about this election cycle, Biden and his admin were exposed over the last 4 years. And it was so bad he had to drop out leaving an incompetent backup (her failures heading up the border proved as such). When you combine that with the reenforced narrative of Dems trying to eliminate dissent with the multiple assassination attempts on the lead Republican candidate, and you have a no win situation for Harris and and message she had

---

there was plenty of evidence. It was just not looked at and cases dismissed because of a "lack of standing"

HTownAg98 said:

---

You don't "cheat" a 15 million delta in votes. The manpower that would take is hard to fathom. What did happen in 2020 is the rules were changed to allow people that had never voted before vote in 2020 because it was super easy to do so, and those people didn't show up in 2024. If you want to call that cheating, fine, but the votes were legitimate.

Voter apathy, drastic reductions in mail-in voting, and a seismic shift in the hispanic vote due to illegal immigration is why Harris lost.

---

BS!

you don't need 15M extra votes for Biden to win.

They only needed about 100k in 3 swing states to make it work.

That could easily be done.

HTownAg98 said:

---

BadMoonRisin said:

---

HTownAg98 said:

---

You don't "cheat" a 15 million delta in votes. The manpower that would take is hard to fathom. What did happen in 2020 is the rules were changed to allow people that had never voted before vote in 2020 because it was super easy to do so, and those people didn't show up in 2024. If you want to call that cheating, fine, but the votes were legitimate.

Voter apathy, drastic reductions in mail-in voting, and a seismic shift in the hispanic vote due to illegal immigration is why Harris lost.

---

The manpower it would take isn't so unfathomable considering Mark Zuckerberg dropped half a billion dollars into the election system to "help," count the votes, buddy.

Pull your head out. It was stolen. Period

---

Nah, I'm good. Some of us choose to live in the reality that there will always be some amount of fraud by bad actors, while also acknowledging that forging millions of ballots is next to impossible.

---

People need to go to prison for 2020.

19 bellweather counties have correctly predicted every presidential winner from 1980 to 2024 -- except for 2020.

Election experts assured us that shifting demographics in these 19 counties were to blame for the miss.

Nine straight…

— Mike Shelby | Do Your Area Study (@grayzoneintel) November 6, 2024

OK.

Keep your head up your b hole, I guess, dude.

Nm.

Texaspainter said:

---

Bryanisbest said:

---

155 million total votes 2020 vs 137 million total votes 2024? Why the 18 million less votes in 2024? How did America lose 18 million votes total votes?

---

Easy.... dems cheated last time

---

They cheated this time too. But after 4 years of Biden-Harris, dems didn't get Harris anywhere close enough to pull it off.

How is this even debatable at this point? Trump will have a few more votes than he did in 2020. His vote totals are following the same trajectory that one would consider to be logical with additional population and additional involvement
There will be nothing to explain for Trump. He will end up with even more votes this year.
The data point that makes no sense is Biden.

HTownAg98 said:

---

Weren't you supposed to be playing UNO with Uncle Larry? The adults are trying to have a conversation here.

---

That's not a good look. Take that down and I will take this quote from you down.

Decided to take the high road.

What's strange to me if you believe it was stolen is if you go state by state, you have a bunch of extra votes in 2020 in blue states…5 mil more in CA, 1 mil more in NY, 500k in NJ, 500k in MD, 600k in IL, 700k more in WA. So, a good chunk of the 15 mil difference in blue states. Makes me think a lot of this delta is coming from mail in votes from voters that only voted because of the mail option. They're dem, live in dem state, don't bother with standing in line normally. Not saying there were not shenanigans, but not 15 million worth of cheating.

Why are you arguing that something so simple to pull off is next to impossible? All you have to do is obtain lists of people, targeting those you know are very unlikely to vote, and send in a mail vote for them. It's extremely easy and no way to trace it. That's exactly what they did during Covid. And, if they did already vote, who cares.

bowhuntr said:

---

What's strange to me if you believe it was stolen is if you go state by state, you have a bunch of extra votes in 2020 in blue states…5 mil more in CA, 1 mil more in NY, 500k in NJ, 500k in MD, 600k in IL, 700k more in WA. So, a good chunk of the 15 mil difference in blue states. Makes me think a lot of this delta is coming from mail in votes from voters that only voted because of the mail option. They're dem, live in dem state, don't bother with standing in line normally. Not saying there were not shenanigans, but not 15 million worth of cheating.

---

The ability for them to do that is still there in most of those states.

A lot of those blue states played the mail in ballot game to win down ballot races and Biden came along for the ride.

Granted Harris is down by 14+ million votes from Biden in 2020, Trump is down by 2 miilion votes from 2020. However if you look at vote totals from the "blue wall" of Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania vote totals are very similar, just that roughly 50K people in each state switched their vote from Dem to Rep.

revvie said:

---

Granted Harris is down by 14+ million votes from Biden in 2020, Trump is down by 2 miilion votes from 2020. However if you look at vote totals from the "blue wall" of Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania vote totals are very similar, just that roughly 50K people in each state switched their vote from Dem to Rep.

---

Yeah now do PA and Georgia and Arizona and Nevada and NC

They cheated. Bigly.

Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

---

bowhuntr said:

---

What's strange to me if you believe it was stolen is if you go state by state, you have a bunch of extra votes in 2020 in blue states…5 mil more in CA, 1 mil more in NY, 500k in NJ, 500k in MD, 600k in IL, 700k more in WA. So, a good chunk of the 15 mil difference in blue states. Makes me think a lot of this delta is coming from mail in votes from voters that only voted because of the mail option. They're dem, live in dem state, don't bother with standing in line normally. Not saying there were not shenanigans, but not 15 million worth of cheating.

---

The ability for them to do that is still there in most of those states.

A lot of those blue states played the mail in ballot game to win down ballot races and Biden came along for the ride.

---

I agree - the graphic above made me think there would be some massive difference in the swing states between 2020/2024, because if you were cheating, spend your effort there. The numbers statistically don't point to cheating in the swing states…you need some other evidence.

Print up 10MM ballots, datamine non voting voters registered. Illegally inject completed ballots by mules, stuffing drop-boxes, middle of night box truck delivery, filled suitcases dispersed in counter rooms, etc, etc.

Many many videos and data showing this cheating and you still do not believe your eyes when they are in your face cheating.

Bryanisbest said:

---

155 million total votes 2020 vs 137 million total votes 2024? Why the 18 million less votes in 2024? How did America lose 18 million votes total votes?

---

Has anyone done a breakdown of the 16 million showing what states spiked so high in the last election?

bowhuntr said:

---

Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

---

bowhuntr said:

---

What's strange to me if you believe it was stolen is if you go state by state, you have a bunch of extra votes in 2020 in blue states…5 mil more in CA, 1 mil more in NY, 500k in NJ, 500k in MD, 600k in IL, 700k more in WA. So, a good chunk of the 15 mil difference in blue states. Makes me think a lot of this delta is coming from mail in votes from voters that only voted because of the mail option. They're dem, live in dem state, don't bother with standing in line normally. Not saying there were not shenanigans, but not 15 million worth of cheating.

---

The ability for them to do that is still there in most of those states.

A lot of those blue states played the mail in ballot game to win down ballot races and Biden came along for the ride.

---

I agree - the graphic above made me think there would be some massive difference in the swing states between 2020/2024, because if you were cheating, spend your effort there. The numbers statistically don't point to cheating in the swing states…you need some other evidence.

---

Okay, just saw this.

jokershady said:

---

Bryanisbest said:

---

155 million total votes 2020 vs 137 million total votes 2024? Why the 18 million less votes in 2024? How did America lose 18 million votes total votes?

---

it is entirely plausible that a lot of democrats weren't excited to vote for Kamala considering:

1. She was the least popular democratic primary candidate in 2020

2. She became the candidate after the proof of lying about Bidens health came clear

And a lot of people likely said hell no I don't want to vote for her.

Combine that with the state of immigration and the economy over the last 4 years and this became trumps election to lose and he handled business

---

Statistically - nope. The math doesn't work.

GenericAggie said:

---

jokershady said:

---

Bryanisbest said:

---

155 million total votes 2020 vs 137 million total votes 2024? Why the 18 million less votes in 2024? How did America lose 18 million votes total votes?

---

it is entirely plausible that a lot of democrats weren't excited to vote for Kamala considering:

1. She was the least popular democratic primary candidate in 2020

2. She became the candidate after the proof of lying about Bidens health came clear

And a lot of people likely said hell no I don't want to vote for her.

Combine that with the state of immigration and the economy over the last 4 years and this became trumps election to lose and he handled business

---

Statistically - nope. The math doesn't work.

---

Which states did all the extra votes come in from in 2020?

I was told that not voting for Trump was a vote for Kamala, so are we going to go ahead and count all of those non-votes for her now? Or can we just finally admit that was a stupid argument?

Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

---

bowhuntr said:

---

What's strange to me if you believe it was stolen is if you go state by state, you have a bunch of extra votes in 2020 in blue states…5 mil more in CA, 1 mil more in NY, 500k in NJ, 500k in MD, 600k in IL, 700k more in WA. So, a good chunk of the 15 mil difference in blue states. Makes me think a lot of this delta is coming from mail in votes from voters that only voted because of the mail option. They're dem, live in dem state, don't bother with standing in line normally. Not saying there were not shenanigans, but not 15 million worth of cheating.

---

The ability for them to do that is still there in most of those states.

A lot of those blue states played the mail in ballot game to win down ballot races and Biden came along for the ride.

---

I though there were some reports or data showing that a lot of MIB in swing states had a Biden vote only and no down ballot votes? I seem to remember that but have no clue where those links are now.

Quote:

---

Would be interesting to see a state by state analysis of voter totals over the last 4 or so election cycles. It seems like a fairly simple set of graphs.

---

I was thinking the same thing. interested in seeing State totals like 2020 vs 2024 in California, NY, Oregon, NJ, etc.... Then at state totals for the likes of TX, FL, Tenn, etc.... The conservatives in the states with less votes left and came to states with more votes.

in 2016, a lot of folks in PA, MI and WI (IIRC) voted down ballot democrat, and left the president box unchecked. That's how Trump won in 2016.

What matters is not the number of votes for president, just the total number of voters.

IndividualFreedom said:

---

Quote:

---

Would be interesting to see a state by state analysis of voter totals over the last 4 or so election cycles. It seems like a fairly simple set of graphs.

---

I was thinking the same thing. interested in seeing State totals like 2020 vs 2024 in California, NY, Oregon, NJ, etc.... Then at state totals for the likes of TX, FL, Tenn, etc.... The conservatives in the states with less votes left and came to states with more votes.

---

I did this last night but haven't graphed it…in the lead for highest delta for Biden vs Harris: CA with 1m, NY with 908k, WA with 700k, FL with 620k, IL with 634k, NJ 511k, TX 458k…all of those are higher for Biden.

GA - Harris had 65k more. PA- 121k fewer for Harris.

BL: I think there was some cheating with mail in, but this 81m deal is mainly explained in the blue states. I was loooking to see some huge jump in swing states - didn't find it. Doesn't mean there weren't 'just enough' dishonest ballots, but statistics aren't glaring.

bowhuntr said:

---

IndividualFreedom said:

---

Quote:

---

Would be interesting to see a state by state analysis of voter totals over the last 4 or so election cycles. It seems like a fairly simple set of graphs.

---

I was thinking the same thing. interested in seeing State totals like 2020 vs 2024 in California, NY, Oregon, NJ, etc.... Then at state totals for the likes of TX, FL, Tenn, etc.... The conservatives in the states with less votes left and came to states with more votes.

---

I did this last night but haven't graphed it…in the lead for highest delta for Biden vs Harris: CA with 1m, NY with 908k, WA with 700k, FL with 620k, IL with 634k, NJ 511k, TX 458k…all of those are higher for Biden.

GA - Harris had 65k more. PA- 121k fewer for Harris.

BL: I think there was some cheating with mail in, but this 81m deal is mainly explained in the blue states. I was loooking to see some huge jump in swing states - didn't find it. Doesn't mean there weren't 'just enough' dishonest ballots, but statistics aren't glaring.

---

Respectfully, yea they are. I'll write up later.