Who?mikejones! said:

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Such statement doesn't relieve the sheriff of murder.

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Based on the legal lawyer podcasts I've listed a little bit to on this case, seems the main question will be whether the defense can get the conviction downgraded from 1st degree to 2nd degree murder, and if can avoid the death penalty. They have seemed to think thus far getting the conviction to only manslaughter will be very difficult.

The video of him shooting a cowering man over and over again at close range who was trying to hide under a desk, then paused a few seconds, then one more carefully aimed kill shot before walking out the door....is pretty damning. The only question really trying to puzzle out is what the heck was he thinking to come so completely unhinged.

Note that besides the 'They are trying to kidnap my wife and daughter' alleged statement by the sheriff to the cops who processed him, the other thing mentioned during the probable cause hearing by the news media is that the sheriff's daughters appeared to be in the courtroom for the hearing. If that rumor of a sexual relationship with the daughter was based in facts and the underlying trigger for this terrible event, you'd have to ask whether it likely that daughter would be out in public right now attending her dad's hearings.

Pumpkinhead said:

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The rumors that have been circulating locally up there have apparently not only included the judge in a sexual relationship with his daughter, but also a rumor that the sheriff was abusive to his wife and daughter and the judge signed a protective order and was trying to help them escape. The latter rumor sort of aligns a little more with the investigator's statement that the sheriff said 'They are trying to kidnap my wife and daughter' when they took him into custody. Then of course you got the entire lawsuit thing and whether that was somehow related. Is it possible that under the pressure of the lawsuit stuff he totally cracked and became delusional and paranoid?

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Given what little we do know, and I'm still speculating, the story of the wife and daughter seeking a protective order seems more plausible. Especially considering the sheriff's established predisposition for violence.

Both could be true.

Sheriff might have been a problem, and judge might have been helping them get away from him.

Judge could have also taken advantage of the situation to groom an underage girl coming from a troubled relationship with her father. If he is a predator, that's the type of situation they look for.


We're way past the 48 hour rule on this thing - we simply do not know the real story. There are possible versions where I feel awful for the judge, and they are possible versions where I would acquit the Sheriff. We just don't know.

Does that camera in the judge's chamber record any sound?

torrid said:

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Does that camera in the judge's chamber record any sound?

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Probably not, recording sound without consent of at least one party is illegal in most states. Even if the judge consented, cleaning crews or other staff would be a gray area. The rules might be different in that state and it's a public building, so who knows, but typically in a business you can't.

aggieforester05 said:

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torrid said:

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Does that camera in the judge's chamber record any sound?

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Probably not, recording sound without consent of at least one party is illegal in most states. Even if the judge consented, cleaning crews or other staff would be a gray area. The rules might be different in that state and it's a public building, so who knows, but typically in a business you can't.

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Yeah, maybe not in an area where there's some expectation of privacy. For fairly common space like a retail store, there should be no expectation of privacy and no issue with recording sound.

Now that I think about it, it was a stupid question on my part. There certainly should be no audio recording within the sanctity of the judge's chambers. I can't imagine all the complicated legal discussions taking place there that must remain confidential.

Fundraiser for Caroline Stines by Ginger Isaac : Support the Stines Family (gofundme.com)

My name is Ginger Isaac. I am Caroline's sister in law. I am setting this donation page because so many people have asked and this is the only way I can think of to be helpful. Please consider donating to assist the family of Sheriff Mickey Stines to help with the expenses they will encounter during this tragic time. This family is near and dear to my family's hearts. The rumor about their daughter being sexually abused is false. We don't want anyone donating under false pretenses.

What I think happened - pretty simple

Sheriff getting sued and under tremendous stress. He had lost 40 pounds unintentionally and inexplicably in the weeks before the deposition. Deposition exacerbated stress, and he was by now losing his sh//. Problems at home, and relationship with wife and daughter very strained and deteriorated. Wife and daughter in touch with family friend judge to get help, possibly even legal help. Explains the "they're kidnapping my wife and daughter" crap. Sheriff has lost it at this point. sees that phone calls were made, snaps like a twig, and kills judge in cold blood.

Sheriff is going down for murder

This is what people get for believing everything they read on Reddit, that most trusted of news sources.

AgDev01 said:

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Sounds like the judge was a good dude trying to help out a family with an unhinged father but people here wanted to immediately demonize him.

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That's my impression as well

Sure the pedo scenario is out, but the SIL didn't say anything about kidnapping. Our hero could still have been trying to keep his wife and daughter from being kidnapped by the evil Judge. He said as much according to prior posts.

Kidnapping is almost as bad as molestation, and you can guess what the Judge was going to do after he absconded with the pair.

93MarineHorn said:

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JohnnyStatueNow said:

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You can tell who has kids, especially daughters, on this thread and who doesn't based on the comments. It would take an act of God to stop me from doing the same thing to anyone who did this to one of my kids.

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Damn! There's some heavily starred page1 posts that should be very embarrassing for a bunch F16ers to revisit.

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Not embarrassed at all. I still feel the same way regarding anyone hurting my children. Glad I could give you a chuckle though.

Not only was there a tweet but the Judge's picture was posted wherein he looked like someone with a postgraduate degree in Kentucky. They're all sus.

No one is blaming you.

I wasn't one who started any of the immediate reaction posts to the pedo stuff.

But can you explain where the victory laps are coming from on the judge side posting now? Did I miss the evidence somewhere that he definitely wasn't harming the daughter?

Genuinely asking

FrioAg 00 said:

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I wasn't one who started any of the immediate reaction posts to the pedo stuff.

But can you explain where the victory laps are coming from on the judge side posting now? Did I miss the evidence somewhere that he definitely wasn't harming the daughter?

Genuinely asking

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You're asking people to prove a negative. Best we can do now is to say there is no evidence that has come forward to show that the judge was having some kind of an inappropriate relationship with the sheriff's daughter. The scant evidence that is available now seems to point to a judge trying to help the sheriff's wife and daughter get out of a bad situation. But there's still a lot that we don't know.

Thanks. I wasn't trying to ask for someone to prove a negative, it's just there seem to be a bunch of recent posts taking pride in being right about the judge NOT really being an abuser and I was curious if new evidence came to light that I missed.

Seems like we're basically still in the "we don't know s***" phase

FrioAg 00 said:

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Thanks. I wasn't trying to ask for someone to prove a negative, it's just there seem to be a bunch of recent posts taking pride in being right about the judge NOT really being an abuser and I was curious if new evidence came to light that I missed.

Seems like we're basically still in the "we don't know s***" phase

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I was half listening to a lawtuber stream during his arraignment a few days ago. Didn't get all of it but Sean (Potentially Criminal) was shocked and predicted that Stines wuld not get convicted or a hung jury. He's a crim lawyer in Ohio not Kentucky but he usually has good instincts and that was just a probable cause hearing to hold Stines over for trial. Very low level of proof required but the defense came out swinging, from what I understood.

So yeah, still an open question as to WTH was actually going on. IDK,

WestHoustonAg79 said:

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JohnnyStatueNow said:

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93MarineHorn said:

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JohnnyStatueNow said:

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You can tell who has kids, especially daughters, on this thread and who doesn't based on the comments. It would take an act of God to stop me from doing the same thing to anyone who did this to one of my kids.

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Damn! There's some heavily starred page1 posts that should be very embarrassing for a bunch F16ers to revisit.

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Not embarrassed at all. I still feel the same way regarding anyone hurting my children. Glad I could give you a chuckle though.

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No one hurt his children. He was a psychopath going through a tough time and executed a judge in his own chambers. wtf is wrong with you.

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All my comments were stated with the premise that something did happen to my children. How I would act if someone hurt my children. I understand that the 48 hr rule was proven once again in this situation The pious holier than thou team can enjoy their gotcha on me.

FrioAg 00 said:

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Thanks. I wasn't trying to ask for someone to prove a negative, it's just there seem to be a bunch of recent posts taking pride in being right about the judge NOT really being an abuser and I was curious if new evidence came to light that I missed.

Seems like we're basically still in the "we don't know s***" phase

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See my last post. We do now have a GoFundMe account created by the sister-in-law of the sheriff's wife, where she says the rumors about the daughter being sexually abused are false. Because she didn't want donations under false pretenses.

And The 'They are trying to kidnap my wife and daughter' alleged statement by the sheriff upon being arrested - which was revealed in the probable cause hearing - also does not make much sense as evidence aligned with that sexual abuse rumor, that the sister in law has stated is a false rumor.

Sweet poontang gets most of the guys that are shot unexpectedly. That and the moment after taking debilitating large sum of cash money from the shooter.

TRADUCTOR said:

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Sweet poontang gets most of the guys that are shot unexpectedly. That and the moment after taking debilitating large sum of cash money from the shooter.

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What's debilitating is that hangover you're gonna have today

aggiehawg said:

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FrioAg 00 said:

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Thanks. I wasn't trying to ask for someone to prove a negative, it's just there seem to be a bunch of recent posts taking pride in being right about the judge NOT really being an abuser and I was curious if new evidence came to light that I missed.

Seems like we're basically still in the "we don't know s***" phase

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I was half listening to a lawtuber stream during his arraignment a few days ago. Didn't get all of it but Sean (Potentially Criminal) was shocked and predicted that Stines wuld not get convicted or a hung jury. He's a crim lawyer in Ohio not Kentucky but he usually has good instincts and that was just a probable cause hearing to hold Stines over for trial. Very low level of proof required but the defense came out swinging, from what I understood.

So yeah, still an open question as to WTH was actually going on. IDK,

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What did this Sean guy think the defense would be?

What exactly was the defense team swinging at during the PC hearing?

JohnnyStatueNow said:

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WestHoustonAg79 said:

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JohnnyStatueNow said:

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93MarineHorn said:

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JohnnyStatueNow said:

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You can tell who has kids, especially daughters, on this thread and who doesn't based on the comments. It would take an act of God to stop me from doing the same thing to anyone who did this to one of my kids.

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Damn! There's some heavily starred page1 posts that should be very embarrassing for a bunch F16ers to revisit.

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Not embarrassed at all. I still feel the same way regarding anyone hurting my children. Glad I could give you a chuckle though.

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No one hurt his children. He was a psychopath going through a tough time and executed a judge in his own chambers. wtf is wrong with you.

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All my comments were stated with the premise that something did happen to my children. How I would act if someone hurt my children. I understand that the 48 hr rule was proven once again in this situation The pious holier than thou team can enjoy their gotcha on me.

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I guess I just don't understand the hill you're standing your ground on here.

I have a 4 year old daughter. Do I 10000% agree with you on your comments and concepts? Of course. I'll load the chamber for you bud. EVERYONE ON HERE is on the same page.

So why are we even discussing it. We get it bro. You're a great dad, strive to do your best, and would rock someone's world if they messed with your own.

Same here.

…..

And now what?


Quit derailing this discussion. I wasn't trying to say I gotcha. You're somehow trying to claim moral supremacy here and it's lame and frowned upon.

WestHoustonAg79 said:

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JohnnyStatueNow said:

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WestHoustonAg79 said:

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JohnnyStatueNow said:

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93MarineHorn said:

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JohnnyStatueNow said:

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You can tell who has kids, especially daughters, on this thread and who doesn't based on the comments. It would take an act of God to stop me from doing the same thing to anyone who did this to one of my kids.

---

Damn! There's some heavily starred page1 posts that should be very embarrassing for a bunch F16ers to revisit.

---

Not embarrassed at all. I still feel the same way regarding anyone hurting my children. Glad I could give you a chuckle though.

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No one hurt his children. He was a psychopath going through a tough time and executed a judge in his own chambers. wtf is wrong with you.

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All my comments were stated with the premise that something did happen to my children. How I would act if someone hurt my children. I understand that the 48 hr rule was proven once again in this situation The pious holier than thou team can enjoy their gotcha on me.

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I guess I just don't understand the hill you're standing your ground on here.

I have a 4 year old daughter. Do I 10000% agree with you on your comments and concepts? Of course. I'll load the chamber for you bud. EVERYONE ON HERE is on the same page.

So why are we even discussing it. We get it bro. You're a great dad, strive to do your best, and would rock someone's world if they messed with your own.

Same here.

…..

And now what?


Quit derailing this discussion. I wasn't trying to say I gotcha. You're somehow trying to claim moral supremacy here and it's lame and frowned upon.

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bruh you started the derail reread your posts

I think the sheriff believed the judge was trying to help the wife and daughter distance themselves from him. His experiment was to call the daughter from his phone, to which she did not answer. Then he called from the Judge's phone and she did answer, which sent him into a homicidal rage.

Did the daughter intentionally avoid her Dad's call, or was it a simple mistake that she could not get to her phone in time for the first call she received, but because she just received a call, she was already headed to her phone, which allowed her to answer the call from the Judge's phone. Time will tell.

Murdering someone who has been your friend for a long time, is almost never the best decision. It will be interesting to see the facts of this case play out.

Fireman said:

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I think the sheriff believed the judge was trying to help the wife and daughter distance themselves from him. His experiment was to call the daughter from his phone, to which she did not answer. Then he called from the Judge's phone and she did answer, which sent him into a homicidal rage.

Did the daughter intentionally avoid her Dad's call, or was it a simple mistake that she could not get to her phone in time for the first call she received, but because she just received a call, she was already headed to her phone, which allowed her to answer the call from the Judge's phone. Time will tell.

Murdering someone who has been your friend for a long time, is almost never the best decision. It will be interesting to see the facts of this case play out.

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Kudos to you. Best explanation of the events I've heard so far.

Court TV was reporting today that the daughter was not a contact in the judges phone.

AtticusMatlock said:

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Court TV was reporting today that the daughter was not a contact in the judges phone.

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In. Can't wait for continued rank speculation. Almost as fun as the dead pigeon threads.