Get to work, people. It's not that hard.

MouthBQ98 said:

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It's a soft layoff/downsizing.

They're trying to get people to quit due to the increased personal costs and hassle of going back to 5 days a week in the office because that typically is a voluntary separation where a contract severance is not paid. It's cheaper than laying them off.

Also, often those with the weaker work ethic or poorer motivation self select to leave the company with this strategy.

That's all it is. Anything else they say is a comfortable lie.

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Walmart did it this year. I worked with a few recruiters who all left their companies because they could not move. Walmart had remote work but then demanded everyone join an office and move. Many people could not move for personal reasons so they quit. Nothing wrong.

Only losers, freaks and lazies that sleep all day want to stay in their houses all day.

This is truth.

This is purely because of the empty offices they paid ridiculous money to build.

General Jack D. Ripper said:

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Only losers, freaks and lazies that sleep all day want to stay in their houses all day.

This is truth.

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Exclude those of retired, please.

MouthBQ98 said:

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It's a soft layoff/downsizing.

They're trying to get people to quit due to the increased personal costs and hassle of going back to 5 days a week in the office because that typically is a voluntary separation where a contract severance is not paid. It's cheaper than laying them off.

Also, often those with the weaker work ethic or poorer motivation self select to leave the company with this strategy.

That's all it is. Anything else they say is a comfortable lie.

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This is the correct answer. It's an easy button attrition tactic to help achieve cost reductions in a poor environment that will get worse under Kamala if she wins.

Sounds like some folks will have to put on pants and shoes in the morning…..

That's a given. I'm 15 years from retirement. I told my wife already, the day I retire, I'm sitting on the front porch with a glass of whiskey in one hand a joint in the other hand and my trusty rifle in my lap.

William Foster said:

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Living out in Cypress and working in town, I am such a more present and active father during the week than I would be if I had to come in 5 days a week, as opposed to 2. I can't imagine ever going back. The only good thing to come (for me and my fam) from the pandemic.

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Amen. I feel exactly the same.

William Foster said:

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CDUB98 said:

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I don't like this policy trend of returning 5 days, or 4 if you're 4-10 like me.

I started a new job last month and the drive both ways is a beat down, especially the evening. Having one day a week to not have to make that drive is awesome.

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Living out in Cypress and working in town, I am such a more present and active father during the week than I would be if I had to come in 5 days a week, as opposed to 2. I can't imagine ever going back. The only good thing to come (for me and my fam) from the pandemic.

Don't care how that makes people view me. 2 hours more per day to spend with my family >>>>>> 2 hours sitting in miserable traffic surrounded by hoodlums with paper plates and third worlders who don't know how to drive.

On the flip side, I was not a fan of working exclusively from home.

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Yep…well said.

Every one of these threads generates black and white responses from people, as if every job was the same.

Sure, some jobs can be done 100% remotely and just as effectively as in an office. But not every job.

Sure, some people work just as hard at home as in an office setting. But not everyone.

If companies have had 4 years now to determine whether WFH can be as productive and cost effective as in the office and come to the decision that its not, then that's that. Go ahead and throw a tantrum, threaten to quit, throw out the word Boomer all you want.

My particular work can be done remotely. I have several people in my program who manage projects just fine remotely. But I've had to fire others who still wanted to be as lazy as possible and not work even though they were set up with a sweet WFH situation. And I know of other project managers who absolutely slack off WFH. So yeah, I'm personally glad to see my company forcing people to come into the office at least three days a week now.

Oh, and if you moved far away from your office during the work from home haydays, that's on you now if you have a long drive into the office. You got cocky and ended up losing the bet you made that things wouldn't return to normal.

We have 1 person that is basically wfh. His work is noticeably worse than everyone in the office and getting in touch with him if we have questions about what he did is also difficult.

All in all, if you can be good working from home all power to you, but personally and noticing diminished quality at my office when others do it's not the norm

C@LAg said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Looks like they will be losing major talent.

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not really. their options are Microsoft (who is also increasing in office days as well as doing layoffs from various divisions) or Boeing (also doing mid-level and tech layoffs) or moving to the Bay area where, surprise... they are also doing layoffs AND it is more expensive.


companies are starting their belt tightening across the board. it is not the employees who are in charge any more.

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Disagree. There are over 500K software companies in the US. Lots of top dogs at Amazon who want a more flexible sched will have options.

My company is huge and does control system software. We lost a couple of top engineers to Amazon, one because Amazon allowed complete WFH. We wouldn't do that. We offered hybrid. That guy will be looking and he will leave.

This is an opportunity to pick off some top talent imo. You don't need to be 100% in the office as a software engineer. It's a dumb decision imo.

Tex117 said:

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A recession is going to hit one day. And its going to stamp out WFH in all but a handful of places.

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True. At least we had a good run.

Logos Stick said:

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Looks like they will be losing major talent.

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Probably not much. Of course, those that leave could start their own business and run it like they saw fit. But they won't.

1. It is definitely a soft layoff.

2. Good for Amazon. My company has home office associates that WFH now and it has been a disaster for those of us that need those resources. No accountability for there work. If they do care to get us best answer, then they have to call another associate or 3 to get best answer. When they actually worked from office, I could get that answer in a couple of minutes. In sales, 10-15 minutes can break you.

3. People need to freaking go to work!!!!! I have yet to see production go up when they quit going into office on daily basis

Gig em G said:

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C@LAg said:

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Good Amazon.

productivity has taken a HUGE hit across most divisions of Amazon here. it is ridiculous.

and the entitled little twunts do not answer their messengers in a timely manner meaning they are not even at their laptops.

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Speak for yourself. I've been far more productive as a WFH/remote employee than ever, partly because I want to set an example that it can be done well.

I hate commuting. I hate traffic. I hate being mandated to sit at a desk in an office environment that I have zero interest in. I love working from my home office, and having the ability to visit family for extended periods without having to take time off. I took less PTO and sick leave because of this.

Return to office blows hard in my opinion. The only people I saw pushing to go back were middle manager types that were twiddling their thumbs looking for something to do, since everyone was working just fine without them or their "pull up meetings"

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It is work from home, not visit family for extended periods from home. And you are taking time off.

BTKAG97 said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Looks like they will be losing major talent.

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JOb openings for those of us who want to work.

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If you have to be in an office to perform, YOU have a problem.

Tex117 said:

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A recession is going to hit one day. And its going to stamp out WFH in all but a handful of places.

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If you want to know what will not happen, refer to the post I quoted

Good point.

Something has to give, traffic isn't getting any better and most of the endless construction will only help for a period of time before it's back to gridlock again.

WFH can work, and there are benefits for in person.

Rather than a debate between the two, how about we figure out to make WFH work for most. The suburban sprawl will continue to grow and companies obviously aren't moving closer to where their employees live.

Why do folks on F16 seem to hate WFH?

Logos Stick said:

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BTKAG97 said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Looks like they will be losing major talent.

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JOb openings for those of us who want to work.

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If you have to be in an office to perform, YOU have a problem.

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Very true. But the bottom line 9 times out of 10 is that one bad apple ruins the bunch. Hate being forced back into the office? Sure real estate costs is one factor, but also blame lazy coworkers who use WFH as an excuse to nap and do house chores "on company time".

one safe place said:

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Gig em G said:

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C@LAg said:

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Good Amazon.

productivity has taken a HUGE hit across most divisions of Amazon here. it is ridiculous.

and the entitled little twunts do not answer their messengers in a timely manner meaning they are not even at their laptops.

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Speak for yourself. I've been far more productive as a WFH/remote employee than ever, partly because I want to set an example that it can be done well.

I hate commuting. I hate traffic. I hate being mandated to sit at a desk in an office environment that I have zero interest in. I love working from my home office, and having the ability to visit family for extended periods without having to take time off. I took less PTO and sick leave because of this.

Return to office blows hard in my opinion. The only people I saw pushing to go back were middle manager types that were twiddling their thumbs looking for something to do, since everyone was working just fine without them or their "pull up meetings"

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It is work from home, not visit family for extended periods from home. And you are taking time off.

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I'm not taking time off, and still working all day at an elderly parent's house in rural Texas…which would not be feasible without remote work. And when I'm done working in the evening, my family and I can spend time together that I wouldn't have otherwise. No one has once questioned my work ethic since this remote work started in 2019.

I wouldn't give that opportunity back for commuting and being stuck in an office for anything…certainly not at the expense of more time spent with the people I love. Say what you want, but I stand by my own convictions.

Definitely case by case. After our latest acquisition, I oversee six Scada systems on four production servers. I'm able to concentrate, don't have to drive 15 hours a week and haven't had a complaint in 4 years. It's work ethic and pride in what you do. Plus my son turned 5 today and I'm 52, so the extra time I got with him before he started school this year was priceless. I'll go back if I must but it works for me.

After reading a lot about this, I wonder if the end of work from home has less to do with productivity/culture and has more to do with who has the institutional ownership of these companies and the impact to their commercial real estate investments. The last thing Blackrock, State Street, and Vanguard want is their commercial assets sitting rent free. If they can lean on the big boys to end WFH, they can do the same with smaller corporations. Also impacts restaurants, automakers, oil, etc.

jjimag said:

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the "people don't want to work" trope is tiresome when it comes to remote jobs. God forbid if it's work done on a computer, people would rather work where they want and not spend 8 hours a week commuting to an office downtown somewhere. You can kiss the extra hours of work goodbye too. Have to beat rush hour to pickup the kids from school.

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My daily commute is 2.5 hours. We are asked to come in 3 days a week. I am SO tired when I get home that I fall asleep right away. It feels like a waste of a day. 10% of my day is gone in commute.

I come into the office and have meetings all day with people in different offices around the country - Detroit, Dallas, Denver etc. Great use of our time by bonehead execs.

General Jack D. Ripper said:

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Only losers, freaks and lazies that sleep all day want to stay in their houses all day.

This is truth.

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Are you talking about retired people and anyone over 65?

AggieVictor10 said:

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Why do folks on F16 seem to hate WFH?

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Because they are old, set in their ways, and fearful of change/progress.