JFABNRGR said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Trump has asked the judge who presided over his New York criminal trial to lift the gag order that prevents him from speaking about witnesses, jurors and others associated with the case. More below —> pic.twitter.com/TTEDiunlvb

— Katherine Faulders (@KFaulders) June 4, 2024

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Thats gonna be a hard no from this judge....must be a deeper ploy here???

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From a purely legal standpoint, the State of New York would actually want the gag order removed and Trump's lawyers would actually want the gag order to stay in place. They might not ever say that out loud, they will probably both take the opposite position, but an angry, unremorseful defendant talking only helps the State and hurts the Defendant in sentencing.


Politically speaking, I don't think anyone really knows what benefits Trump the most. Personally, I don't see how yelling and complaining more about Michael Cohen or whoever will do much; I can more easily see how continued complaints about being muzzled might have a benefit.

TXAggie2011 said:

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JFABNRGR said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Trump has asked the judge who presided over his New York criminal trial to lift the gag order that prevents him from speaking about witnesses, jurors and others associated with the case. More below —> pic.twitter.com/TTEDiunlvb

— Katherine Faulders (@KFaulders) June 4, 2024

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Thats gonna be a hard no from this judge....must be a deeper ploy here???

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From a purely legal standpoint, the State of New York would actually want the gag order removed and Trump's lawyers would actually want the gag order to stay in place. They might not ever say that out loud, they will probably both take the opposite position, but an angry, unremorseful defendant talking only helps the State and hurts the Defendant in sentencing.


Politically speaking, I don't think anyone really knows what benefits Trump the most. Personally, I don't see how yelling and complaining more about Michael Cohen or whoever will do much; I can more easily see how continued complaints about being muzzled might have a benefit.

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That makes sense thanks. I guess well see what happens.

When free and fair elections are lost, the options to preserve the Constitution and Liberty are very limited and not good.

Yall aren't going to believe this! Bragg opposes lifting

JUST IN: Manhattan DA is opposing Trump's push to lift the gag order in his hush money case.

They say it should remain live through sentencing/post-trial motions. pic.twitter.com/6N1XUhw2VJ

— Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) June 5, 2024

"integrity of the proceedings" LOL ****ing criminals

BadMoonRisin said:

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Ideology that is what gives evildoing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination. That is the social theory which helps to make his acts seem good instead of bad in his own and others' eyes.... That was how the agents of the Inquisition fortified their wills: by invoking Christianity; the conquerors of foreign lands, by extolling the grandeur of their Motherland; the colonizers, by civilization; the Nazis, by race; and the Jacobins (early and late), by equality, brotherhood, and the happiness of future generations... Without evildoers there would have been no Archipelago

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This is a great quote; perhaps a little attribution?

Bryan98 said:

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BadMoonRisin said:

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Quote:

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Ideology that is what gives evildoing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination. That is the social theory which helps to make his acts seem good instead of bad in his own and others' eyes.... That was how the agents of the Inquisition fortified their wills: by invoking Christianity; the conquerors of foreign lands, by extolling the grandeur of their Motherland; the colonizers, by civilization; the Nazis, by race; and the Jacobins (early and late), by equality, brotherhood, and the happiness of future generations... Without evildoers there would have been no Archipelago

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This is a great quote; perhaps a little attribution?

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Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago (1973).

It's an interesting read now, especially given the last decade in our own history.

Hhmmmmmm....

“Sen. Schumer’s brother, Robert Schumer, is a partner in that law firm, Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton, and Garrison …. Paul, Weiss granted three highly paid attorneys leaves of absence to join the Manhattan district attorney’s office in its targeting of Donald Trump.”

Just like… https://t.co/vaaUKfnxrj

— Mike Lee (@BasedMikeLee) June 4, 2024

BadMoonRisin said:

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Bryan98 said:

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BadMoonRisin said:

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Quote:

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Ideology that is what gives evildoing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination. That is the social theory which helps to make his acts seem good instead of bad in his own and others' eyes.... That was how the agents of the Inquisition fortified their wills: by invoking Christianity; the conquerors of foreign lands, by extolling the grandeur of their Motherland; the colonizers, by civilization; the Nazis, by race; and the Jacobins (early and late), by equality, brotherhood, and the happiness of future generations... Without evildoers there would have been no Archipelago

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This is a great quote; perhaps a little attribution?

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Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago (1973).

It's an interesting read now, especially given the last decade in our own history.

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Not just an interesting read an excellent one and should be mandatory in schools.

If you can't handle all 1000+ pages (it is disturbing to read) just google up pages and pages of his quotes.

Would this be an in-kind campaign contribution for Biden, aimed at affecting the outcome of the 2024 presidential election?

Banana republic

Let's just keep saying the words "convicted felon" over and over again and hope it makes people not vote for him

This woman is on fire for Trump, and there are a lot more people who feel the same way. Watch! pic.twitter.com/fqxOzm4gEG

— Dinesh D'Souza (@DineshDSouza) June 5, 2024

JFABNRGR said:

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BadMoonRisin said:

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Bryan98 said:

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BadMoonRisin said:

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Quote:

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Ideology that is what gives evildoing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination. That is the social theory which helps to make his acts seem good instead of bad in his own and others' eyes.... That was how the agents of the Inquisition fortified their wills: by invoking Christianity; the conquerors of foreign lands, by extolling the grandeur of their Motherland; the colonizers, by civilization; the Nazis, by race; and the Jacobins (early and late), by equality, brotherhood, and the happiness of future generations... Without evildoers there would have been no Archipelago

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This is a great quote; perhaps a little attribution?

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Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago (1973).

It's an interesting read now, especially given the last decade in our own history.

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Not just an interesting read an excellent one and should be mandatory in schools.

If you can't handle all 1000+ pages (it is disturbing to read) just google up pages and pages of his quotes.

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They actually sell it in volumes now. Volume one is still over 600 pages, but it works pretty decently as a standalone. But you wont stop reading at volume one if you can get all the way through it.

Very disturbing.

JFABNRGR said:

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BadMoonRisin said:

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Bryan98 said:

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BadMoonRisin said:

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Quote:

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Ideology that is what gives evildoing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination. That is the social theory which helps to make his acts seem good instead of bad in his own and others' eyes.... That was how the agents of the Inquisition fortified their wills: by invoking Christianity; the conquerors of foreign lands, by extolling the grandeur of their Motherland; the colonizers, by civilization; the Nazis, by race; and the Jacobins (early and late), by equality, brotherhood, and the happiness of future generations... Without evildoers there would have been no Archipelago

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This is a great quote; perhaps a little attribution?

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Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago (1973).

It's an interesting read now, especially given the last decade in our own history.

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Not just an interesting read an excellent one and should be mandatory in schools.

If you can't handle all 1000+ pages (it is disturbing to read) just google up pages and pages of his quotes.

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Read One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovitch. Much easier read and gets you a good feel for what the gulags were like.

Short video on the constitutional infirmities of this case. Worth a listen.

Upshot there is his recommendation for Trump's counsel to file in federal court under 1983 for a temporary restraining order against Merchan from entering the formal judgement of guilt. Trump is not a convicted felon until that judgment is filed, BTW, precisely because Merchan has the option of entering a judgment notwithstanding the verdict. He won't of course but until that judgment of guilt is filed by the court, he's not officially convicted.

aggiehawg said:

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Short video on the constitutional infirmities of this case. Worth a listen.

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Definitely worth the listen. I like the idea of an emergency TRO to prevent the judge from imposing sentence. That would be the best interim step.

aggiehawg said:

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Upshot there is his recommendation for Trump's counsel to file in federal court under 1983 for a temporary restraining order against Merchan from entering the formal judgement of guilt. Trump is not a convicted felon until that judgment is filed, BTW, precisely because Merchan has the option of entering a judgment notwithstanding the verdict. He won't of course but until that judgment of guilt is filed by the court, he's not officially convicted.

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That was a great video; thank you for posting.

I'm now really curious if the Trump defense team will file the TRO in federal court. Are there dangers for them to do so?

Other benefit if they get the TRO from a federal judge is that the time for appeal to the state appellate court is stayed as there is no final judgment of guilt from which to appeal.

aggiehawg said:

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Other benefit if they get the TRO from a federal judge is that the time for appeal to the state appellate court is stayed as there is no final judgment of guilt from which to appeal.

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What do you think are the odds of Trump's legal team even having considered a federal TRO against Merchan?

I am sure they have a "Pro Bono-Civic Services" account they stuck it in

SwigAg11 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Other benefit if they get the TRO from a federal judge is that the time for appeal to the state appellate court is stayed as there is no final judgment of guilt from which to appeal.

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What do you think are the odds of Trump's legal team even having considered a federal TRO against Merchan?

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I'm sure they have thought about that. What they know that I don't know if the quality of predisposition of the federal district judges within that district. Would filing that be a risky crap shoot? More likely to be denied than granted? Then you have two appeals going at the same time? One in state court and one in federal court?

Having thought about it I do think it would be worth the risk, even if denied by the trial court and going to the 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals. The Constitutional arguments he lays out are valid and persuasive in my view.

And going all of the way back to the infirmities in the indictment itself, Bragg's "information" which was the Statement of Facts and then refusal to answer the bill of particulars under the 6th, gets the whole case vacated with no chance to refile, IMO.

aggiehawg said:

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SwigAg11 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Other benefit if they get the TRO from a federal judge is that the time for appeal to the state appellate court is stayed as there is no final judgment of guilt from which to appeal.

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What do you think are the odds of Trump's legal team even having considered a federal TRO against Merchan?

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I'm sure they have thought about that. What they know that I don't know if the quality of predisposition of the federal district judges within that district. Would filing that be a risky crap shoot? More likely to be denied than granted? Then you have two appeals going at the same time? One in state court and one in federal court?

Having thought about it I do think it would be worth the risk, even if denied by the trial court and going to the 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals. The Constitutional arguments he lays out are valid and persuasive in my view.

And going all of the way back to the infirmities in the indictment itself, Bragg's "information" which was the Statement of Facts and then refusal to answer the bill of particulars under the 6th, gets the whole case vacated with no chance to refile, IMO.

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Thank you for the explanation. I did not know a defendant could ask for a TRO on something like that.

I guess there isn't really a down-side for them attempting a TRO in federal court, unless doing so would have Merchan be more vindictive in his ruling if the federal court doesn't grant the TRO?

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I guess there isn't really a down-side for them attempting a TRO in federal court, unless doing so would have Merchan be more vindictive in his ruling if the federal court doesn't grant the TRO?

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We are past the idea of worrying about pissing off the judge. I had been wondering if they could make a 1983 case. (have limited familiarity with them) but the guy in the youtube says they can and he's Conlaw guy, so I'l take his word for it.

aggiehawg said:

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I guess there isn't really a down-side for them attempting a TRO in federal court, unless doing so would have Merchan be more vindictive in his ruling if the federal court doesn't grant the TRO?

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We are past the idea of worrying about pissing off the judge. I had been wondering if they could make a 1983 case. (have limited familiarity with them) but the guy in the youtube says they can and he's Conlaw guy, so I'l take his word for it.

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Those were my thoughts as well. I'm assuming that Merchan will just go with whatever the prosecution's proposed sentence is (or be even harsher).

WSJ Free Expression Conviction Politics

Thanks for that link, I will be interested in looking at it later. I listened to this one yesterday and thought it was really well done. Former Trump attorney and former federal prosecutor James Trusty goes through a lot of the pitfalls of the case and expected routes of appeal. Hopefully the link works, if not it is a free weekly Podcast done by Editor-at-large Gerry Baker and I find it's usually excellent.

aggiehawg said:

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I guess there isn't really a down-side for them attempting a TRO in federal court, unless doing so would have Merchan be more vindictive in his ruling if the federal court doesn't grant the TRO?

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We are past the idea of worrying about pissing off the judge. I had been wondering if they could make a 1983 case. (have limited familiarity with them) but the guy in the youtube says they can and he's Conlaw guy, so I'l take his word for it.

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I know the SCOTUS can't get involved so long as it is still in state court.

But if they file a TRO request in Federal Court, at that point is it "in Federal Court enough" to where they could file the Writ of whatever with SCOTUS asking them to get involved? If the TRO is denied?

Tailgate88 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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I guess there isn't really a down-side for them attempting a TRO in federal court, unless doing so would have Merchan be more vindictive in his ruling if the federal court doesn't grant the TRO?

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We are past the idea of worrying about pissing off the judge. I had been wondering if they could make a 1983 case. (have limited familiarity with them) but the guy in the youtube says they can and he's Conlaw guy, so I'l take his word for it.

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I know the SCOTUS can't get involved so long as it is still in state court.

But if they file a TRO request in Federal Court, at that point is it "in Federal Court enough" to where they could file the Writ of whatever with SCOTUS asking them to get involved? If the TRO is denied?

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I would think they could immediately appeal a federal court's ruling if it's denied, but would need to wait for that.

agdad4x said:

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I am sure they have a "Pro Bono-Civic Services" account they stuck it in

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Kind of like Trump's people they recorded invoices from lawyers to? Schumer would be hard pressed to prove it was just a random decision for pro bono support. Clearly it is being done to influence the election, which is a felony now apparently.

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I know the SCOTUS can't get involved so long as it is still in state court.


But if they file a TRO request in Federal Court, at that point is it "in Federal Court enough" to where they could file the Writ of whatever with SCOTUS asking them to get involved? If the TRO is denied?

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It is not that they can't, it is that they won't until the state appellate process is exhausted.

However, bringing a 1983 action in federal district court opens a different avenue to SCOTUS. Even if the TRO is denied, it can be appealed to the 2nd Circuit and from there to SCOTUS OR SCOTUS can take it and skip the 2nd Circuit. (Unlikely, in my view but still possible.)

When time is of the essence, have to explore every avenue that might shorten that time. There is little doubt there is irreparable harm if these Constitutional issues are not addressed in a timely fashion and that's the biggest hurdle in obtaining injunctive relief as a remedy, along with likelihood of success at the trial on the merits. The Constitutional infirmities are numerous and quite serious here. So a reasonable non-agenda driven federal judge would be disposed to grant it with passing those tests.

Again, my .02.

What's the downside of trying to go the 1983 route?

GenericAggie said:

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What's the downside of trying to go the 1983 route?

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The state bar could disbar or suspend them? Im half kidding but I'm willing to bet that Trumps attorneys have probably had many (frivolous) bar complaints filed against them for the crime of representing literally Hitler

GenericAggie said:

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What's the downside of trying to go the 1983 route?

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Merchan goes full prison time? Consecutive and not concurrent? Merchan knows he will be reversed, so the time for his impact on the election is time limited as well. Federal court shuts him down but then doesn't shut him down with no TRO?

Merchan is that dumb that he would order Trump sent to Rikers for three or six months?