Cooter00 said:

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The ADA regulations in this country are pathetic.
Every time I see a hotel pool with a handicap lift I just shake my head.

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They should let parents use those unused things with their kids for fun.

Then again, it can be hard to be mad or upset when I hear about anything bad happening in California.

Jock 07 said:

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The way I read it, the business was there at least 4 years before ADA. I thought preexisting buildings and structures were exempt.

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A widely misunderstood concept, but they are not exempt. They are held to a slightly different standard (readily achievable removal of barriers) than new buildings when courts rule on violations.

If something is not readily achievable by the business, they don't have to do it. But that's hard to prove.

Not a lawyer, but I operate my business out of a building built in 1977.

America wrote the book on innovation via schemes to push on the public by bribing politicians.

Thank you ADA nazis...

It is a billion dollar government run agency

cecil77 said:

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My wife needs HC access, so we deal with this every day.

As a libertarian, I think the ADA is government overreach. However, (comma) the level of ignorance and blindness (see what I did there) from "normal" people is astounding. The church my wife would like to attend has some handicapped parking and an entrance feet from the spaces. However, since all the shootings that door is locked and she'd have to go 200 feet down an incline, enter the church and 100 feet back up the aisle. When we do attend I walk down and around and open the door for here. But the point is that there was no thought to "how are these people gonna get in here" when the decision was made to lock the doors.

And there's dozens of situations like this continually.

I will note that in my experience that the vast majority of mobility impaired people do NOT want the attention and to make a fuss. As Muy said, just go somewhere where they want your money, and tell all your friends where you can't get in and where you can't. Eventually the market will take care of it.

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There is a lot of common sense to go around from both both groups of people. In your case, I think it's ridiculous for the church to use the excuse of shooting to inconvenience someone like your wife and you when they have the amenities in place already. That's ridiculous and I'd absolutely call some moron out over that if it was my wife. They got deep pockets. Make it work.

That said, I call BS on the burger joint article. There is more to this than is being said. Why didn't the landlord get sued? Both can be sued for this. I'd need to ask my attorney on my business who is actually responsible but I don't think we're getting the full story.

Also, it's takes a special kind of ******* handicapped person to push it to that level.

Where is our resident lawyer? You could sue the burger guy but he could sue the landlord, yes? Why isn't everyone involved from the get go? It seems the burger joint wanted to fix it but the landlord didn't. That seems important to this case.

Either way, burger guy was probably looking for a way out of the business and this was as good a reason as any. If it were my business, I'd find a way to put in a ramp. Lol.

Is this your first time on this board? It's pretty much maroon Reddit.

BMX Bandit said:

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Quote:

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I call BS on the burger joint article. There is more to this than is being said. I'm not sure who should get sued here but the landlord holds a lot of the responsibility here. Why was the burger joint sued and not the landlord? I'd need to ask my attorney on my business who is actually responsible but I don't think we're getting the full story. I am a tenant and the landlord so I'd be screwed either way but I'm curious who is truly responsible.

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The restaurant and the property owner were both sued

Legally, both tenant and landlord are liable under ADA. Their lease will set out issues between them.

Quote:

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Either way, burger guy was probably looking for a way out of the business and this was as good a reason as any. If it were my business, I'd find a way to put in a ramp. Lol.

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Burger guy wanted to build a ramp. Owner said no.

There is a cottage industry of lawyers and handicapped people making lots of money on these cases. It's pretty disgusting.

I guarantee you most in wheelchairs agree. So spare us the self righteous Indignation
(Not the poster I quoted)

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I'd be at Home Depot that evening. It doesn't make sense to me that a landlord would say "nah, I don't want to comply with ADA, let's go to court and lose instead!" I just can't get onboard with "a ramp is too expensive". I got guys on Nextdoor that will whip that up with the quickness for a couple hundred in cash.

I am a business owner. I lease my office.

The property owner did want not to pay to build a ramp.

annie88 said:

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Wow, I'm kind of disgusted by some of the comments on here, and it tells me that most of you have never had to deal with any kind of serious restriction in your lives.

Do better.

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I think ADA was a good bill but taken way too far and that is from someone who has had a lot of family with restrictions. 90% of the benefit comes from probably 10% of the costs especially when building a new building.

A great friend of mine who has been in a wheel chair showed me what was done when he built his house and I would make all of the changes he did because it actually makes the house better for everyone (like no steps to the front door and 36 inch doors) but he intentionally didn't do a number of ADA requirements for a commercial building like lower counters because it made things too hard on his wife and others to use while he can still work with it.

I don't want to want to pull permits, or have to accommodate people in person but there are just some costs as a landlord that we have to follow. Of all the ones to cut out, the ADA isn't one I'd be saving a buck on. Like you said, there are folks that live for suing violators. And again, how much can a ramp cost? That landlord isn't going to be able to not put one in now. He'll never lease it again until it's fixed. It makes not sense to me. Oh well, it doesn't matter, if it were my business, I'd figure it out and give him a free hamburger so he'd not ruin my life. 40 years….a ramp…damn.

annie88 said:

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Wow, I'm kind of disgusted by some of the comments on here, and it tells me that most of you have never had to deal with any kind of serious restriction in your lives.

Do better.

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Me too!

cecil77 said:

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My wife needs HC access, so we deal with this every day.

As a libertarian, I think the ADA is government overreach. However, (comma) the level of ignorance and blindness (see what I did there) from "normal" people is astounding. The church my wife would like to attend has some handicapped parking and an entrance feet from the spaces. However, since all the shootings that door is locked and she'd have to go 200 feet down an incline, enter the church and 100 feet back up the aisle. When we do attend I walk down and around and open the door for here. But the point is that there was no thought to "how are these people gonna get in here" when the decision was made to lock the doors.

And there's dozens of situations like this continually.

I will note that in my experience that the vast majority of mobility impaired people do NOT want the attention and to make a fuss. As Muy said, just go somewhere where they want your money, and tell all your friends where you can't get in and where you can't. Eventually the market will take care of it.

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What did the church say when you brought this to their attention?

The vast majority of people don't need HC access. The market won't put a place out of business for lack of access alone.

Cooter00 said:

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The ADA regulations in this country are pathetic.
Every time I see a hotel pool with a handicap lift I just shake my head.

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Thanks Obama on that one

WBBQ74 said:

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TDLR refs here in Texas can be extremely aggravating at times. My late BIL w/ ALS was wheelchair bound for the last 5 years of his life. I get it. On the other hand site compliance with ADA 'guidelines' can be very costly and with minimal chances of ever being needed/used. I once had to design a full sidewalk ramp with several landings for a Krispy Kreme donut shop along the frontage road for 1604 here in SA. Zero chance of any pedestrian traffic along this highway and even less of a chance of someone in a wheelchair making a donut run to this location. Total waste of money.

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They are expanding the middle lanes down 183 in Austin and have to install sidewalks on both sides of the frontage roads as required by Austin walkability rules I believe.

You should see the sidewalk they are putting in along the sides of both existing frontage roads (North and South). They are easily spending millions per mile on this thing. Retaining walls, ramps, fall prevention walls because some of the sidewalks have a 3' drop on one side, new drainage, moving utilities, ramps.

It is insane. It will be more walkable when done but maybe 3 people per hour walk those areas during the work week. So all this so 30 or so people a day can use a sidewalk instead of an unimproved flatish land or having to take a step down into someones existing parking lot. It is nuts

annie88 said:

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Wow, I'm kind of disgusted by some of the comments on here, and it tells me that most of you have never had to deal with any kind of serious restriction in your lives.

Do better.

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This x100000000. When my dad was going through the cancer that ultimately killed him the chemo left him so weak it took all his strength just to walk from the handicap parking spot right next to the doctor's office door into the lobby. It gave me a new perspective on how crucial handicap access is.

Most of the comments above are just pathetic.