Muh Polls

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Quo Vadis?
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rgag12 said:

Quo Vadis? said:

Captn_Ag05 said:

Trump crushing it in Ohio




Penna is gone gone if he wins Ohio by 12


With that much support in Ohio it's kind of surprising that Sherrod Brown is ahead in the OH senate race by so much.
that's one of the funniest things.

For all they try to Hype "Boss Babe Kamala" she's well behind all of her down ballot fellow Dems, waaaaaay behind.

It shows two things, Trump isn't the albatross people claim he is, and nobody is buying Kamala's BS.
nortex97
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Harris is at least a fairly credible pollster, so this shift will be fascinating to see measured more, if it happens:

Captn_Ag05
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Rockdoc
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You can find any poll you want, to say whatever you want.
oh no
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It flips without Kennedy?! very interesting indeed.
Captn_Ag05
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For reference, in 2020 Trump won MO by 15.4 and lost NY by 23.

So both of these would be shifts towards Trump. Polls conducted over three weeks are ridiculous though. Polling malpractice.





nortex97
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oh no said:

It flips without Kennedy?! very interesting indeed.
That's a LV national popular vote comparison, yes. But, keep in mind, given her margins in NY and CA, she has to win the national PV by around 5 or 7 to likely take the battleground states that matter. She is at least 3 or 5 points behind HRC-Biden at this point 4 years ago, and momentum doesn't seem to be on her side, nor a disruptive 3rd party a la Perot etc.
Philip J Fry
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What did you do, send them a tweet they didn't respond to?
GenericAggie
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Trump HAS to get 3 debates with Kamala. If she refuses, he needs to go on EVERY news cast and blast her for not agreeing to 3 debates.

She needs to be exposed for the fraud that she is. The more she talks, the better.

Trump NEEDS to focus on the economy - #1. Period. He needs to keep talking about jobs going away to other countries if Kamala raises corporate taxes. He talked about this after the DNC convention and it was an effective part of his time on air.

We are ****ed if they dont get debt in check. 35T and growing daily. NOTHING else really matters. Everyone else is noise.
rgag12
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Meh, he really only needs to do one.

What do you remember about the 2020 debates? 99% of people remember Trump bombing the first debate, nobody remembers what happened in the second (Trump did better).

It's all about the very first debate, people then gradually tune out the rest. Three debates is one too many.
Barnyard96
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Trump is going to do town halls
McInnis 03
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Barnyard96
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Doesnt match the RCP model.
Philip J Fry
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Difference between the two is PA. I don't like depending on PA going red to win.
Rockdoc
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McInnis 03 said:



Ask Hillary how this works out!
rgag12
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Philip J Fry said:

Difference between the two is PA. I don't like depending on PA going red to win.


Any way you slice it, Trump has to win either PA, MI, or WI. Any one of those is a big ask and why Dems are currently in a strong position for electoral college races.

Northern Virginia turning DEEP blue and taking Virginia out of play for republicans was one of the most consequential things that happened between 2008 and 2016.
agsalaska
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I think Trump wins PA.
nortex97
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Philip J Fry said:

Difference between the two is PA. I don't like depending on PA going red to win.
538 is just ABC news/Disney Entertainment, and should be taken with a grain of salt at this point in it's history. But yes, I agree depending on PA would be disappointing. I don't think that is likely, however.

They just finally got around to appointing a new upper west side chief (after several months). If you have been under the misapprehension that David Muir's nightly news program has been calling it straight, this is probably encouraging. Nate Silver himself has derided them a few times this year.
rgag12
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agsalaska said:

I think Trump wins PA.


It's certainly his best chance out of the three IMO. However how much different would this election look if VA was still a purple/light red state? The Dems would be on the outside looking in hoping and praying they could flip a state that historically is usually red instead of the other way around.
agsalaska
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No doubt. That was a huge loss for the GOP
AgOutsideAustin
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rgag12 said:

agsalaska said:

I think Trump wins PA.


It's certainly his best chance out of the three IMO. However how much different would this election look if VA was still a purple/light red state? The Dems would be on the outside looking in hoping and praying they could flip a state that historically is usually red instead of the other way around.



That was my hope he would've picked Youngkin to get a real shot at Virginia but I have been pleased with how well JD does in his interviews.
Barnyard96
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If PA is the difference, then Im glad its Trump as the nominee
Artorias
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McInnis 03 said:


For anyone unaware, 538 is no longer Nate Silver. He sold it to ESPN, aka Disney. Gee, I wonder if they are fair and balanced.
Artorias
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rgag12 said:

agsalaska said:

I think Trump wins PA.


It's certainly his best chance out of the three IMO. However how much different would this election look if VA was still a purple/light red state? The Dems would be on the outside looking in hoping and praying they could flip a state that historically is usually red instead of the other way around.
With so many DC creatures living in VA, there was no way VA would stay red forever.
Drahknor03
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And then they fired him.
WestAustinAg
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How bad is this poll?



Barnyard96
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Its all Ron's fault for going after Disney.
outofstateaggie
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1
WestAustinAg said:

How bad is this poll?






14% Undecided? Good grief.
nortex97
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It's UofH and Texas Southern I believe. Their data is…laughable at best.
Hungry Ojos
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nortex97 said:

Philip J Fry said:

Difference between the two is PA. I don't like depending on PA going red to win.
538 is just ABC news/Disney Entertainment, and should be taken with a grain of salt at this point in it's history. But yes, I agree depending on PA would be disappointing. I don't think that is likely, however.

They just finally got around to appointing a new upper west side chief (after several months). If you have been under the misapprehension that David Muir's nightly news program has been calling it straight, this is probably encouraging. Nate Silver himself has derided them a few times this year.
I don't know how all of you guys can just outright dismiss every poll that shows Trump behind. I understand bias, but why would literally ALL of these pollsters, intentionally manipulate their data, knowing that once its discovered that they are wrong, they no longer have a business to live off of. In other words, they are all willing to intentionally tank their personal livelihood for fake polls?
JDUB08AG
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Hungry Ojos said:

nortex97 said:

Philip J Fry said:

Difference between the two is PA. I don't like depending on PA going red to win.
538 is just ABC news/Disney Entertainment, and should be taken with a grain of salt at this point in it's history. But yes, I agree depending on PA would be disappointing. I don't think that is likely, however.

They just finally got around to appointing a new upper west side chief (after several months). If you have been under the misapprehension that David Muir's nightly news program has been calling it straight, this is probably encouraging. Nate Silver himself has derided them a few times this year.
I don't know how all of you guys can just outright dismiss every poll that shows Trump behind. I understand bias, but why would literally ALL of these pollsters, intentionally manipulate their data, knowing that once its discovered that they are wrong, they no longer have a business to live off of. In other words, they are all willing to intentionally tank their personal livelihood for fake polls?
I mentioned it a few times, I don't think they are intentionally manipulating their polls (at least not most of them). I maintain their methodology is flawed and they haven't figured out how to sample Trump, even 8 years later. He overperformed polling by a decent margin in 2016 and 2020. Unless these models have changed, its likely going to be the same story in 2024. He is much closer to Harris than Clinton and Biden.
Artorias
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Hungry Ojos said:

nortex97 said:

Philip J Fry said:

Difference between the two is PA. I don't like depending on PA going red to win.
538 is just ABC news/Disney Entertainment, and should be taken with a grain of salt at this point in it's history. But yes, I agree depending on PA would be disappointing. I don't think that is likely, however.

They just finally got around to appointing a new upper west side chief (after several months). If you have been under the misapprehension that David Muir's nightly news program has been calling it straight, this is probably encouraging. Nate Silver himself has derided them a few times this year.
I don't know how all of you guys can just outright dismiss every poll that shows Trump behind. I understand bias, but why would literally ALL of these pollsters, intentionally manipulate their data, knowing that once its discovered that they are wrong, they no longer have a business to live off of. In other words, they are all willing to intentionally tank their personal livelihood for fake polls?
Do you not know how polls work? Polls this far out are meant for one thing, to try to shape the election. There is zero way for anyone to confirm if the polls are accurate and unbiased. When it gets closer to election day, the polls will shift to something more in the neighborhood of reality, as that is the only thing that can be actually compared to results. As long as they are within a few points of the final results leading up to election day, they can do whatever they want this far out.
Captn_Ag05
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The UofH poll in 2020 had a result of 50-45 Trump over Biden. Actual result was Trump +5.8. They were one of the more accurate pollsters for Texas in 2020. Their 2018 Senate poll had Cruz +7 over Beto. Cruz won by 2.8.
agsalaska
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Agreed. When I read someone who makes a blanket statement that everyone manipulates polls I just dismiss them as ignorant.

You are right about figuring out Trump support. Polling is MUCH harder than it used to be.
WestAustinAg
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The Asterisk on Kamala Harris's Poll Numbers
Pollsters think they've learned from their mistakes in 2020. Of course, they thought that last time too.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/08/election-polls-2020-mistakes/679545/

******

The 2016 election lives in popular memory as perhaps the most infamous polling miss of all time, but 2020 was quietly even worse. The polls four years ago badly underestimated Trump's support even as they correctly forecast a Joe Biden win. A comprehensive postmortem by the American Association for Public Opinion Research concluded that 2020 polls were the least accurate in decades, overstating Biden's advantage by an average of 3.9 percentage points nationally and 4.3 percentage points at the state level over the final two weeks of the election. (In 2016, by contrast, national polling predicted Hillary Clinton's popular-vote margin quite accurately.) According to The New York Times, Biden led by 10 points in Wisconsin but won it by less than 1 point; he led Michigan by 8 and won by 3; he led in Pennsylvania by 5 and won by about 1. As of this writing, Harris is up in all three states, but by less than Biden was. A 2020-size error would mean that she's actually downand poised to lose the Electoral College.

The pollsters know they messed up in 2020. They are cautiously optimistic that they've learned from their mistakes. Of course, they thought that last time too.

How did the polls get worse from 2016 to 2020, with everyone watching? In the aftermath of Trump's surprise 2016 victory, the public-opinion-research industry concluded that the problem was educational polarization. If pollsters had made a point of including enough white people without college degrees in their samples, they wouldn't have underestimated Trump so badly. During the 2020 cycle, they focused on correcting that mistake.

It didn't work. Even though polls in 2020 included more white non-college-educated voters, they turned out to be disproportionately the white non-college-educated voters who preferred Biden. The new consensus is that Republican voters are less likely to respond to polls in the first place, even controlling for education level. (To put it more nerdily, partisan preference correlates independently with willingness to take a poll, at least when Trump is on the ballot.) Don Levy, the director of the Siena College Research Institute, which conducts polls on behalf of The New York Times, calls the phenomenon "anti-establishment response bias." The more someone distrusts mainstream institutions, including the media and pollsters, the more likely they are to vote for Trump.
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