I don't think actual polling agrees with your assertions regarding the numbers at play.

I'm sure you'll lean on the statement that most of those individuals simply don't know what they are supporting but that doesn't mean their support is ineffectual for those pushing agendas.

Fenrir said:

---

I don't think actual polling agrees with your assertions regarding the numbers at play.

I'm sure you'll lean on the statement that most of those individuals simply don't know what they are supporting but that doesn't mean their support is ineffectual for those pushing agendas.

---

It's effective with respect to the public narrative and getting milk toast democrats elected over republicans. It's entirely insufficient to even so much as get an avowed socialist elected President, let alone actually implement the sort of sweeping change necessary to create the kind of society being envisioned here.

The masses of young voters who espouse liberal talking points aren't a viable long term solution for real socialists or communists because one, a great many of them become much more conservative as they age (especially the men) and two, they lack knowledge and conviction. They'll support the socialist revolution right up to the point that it mildly inconveniences their morning Starbucks run.

Almost none of the people you see on TV talking about UBI or reparations are any sort of meaningful threat to the long term viability of the union.

[You can make your point without being so harsh and disrespectful to others -- Staff]

[Your previous handle was perma'd also for the same behavior displayed in your wild derail in this thread -- Staff]

Infection_Ag11 said:

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ttu_85 said:

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BassCowboy33 said:

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Reality Check said:

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LMCane said:

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Urban Ag said:

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Malibu said:

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The premise of CA an TX teaming up is actually fairly well thought out in the movie universe. Both states, for different reasons, decide they are far better off as independent nation states than staying bound to Washington. Once both go their separate ways and aren't constantly trolling each other in domestic affairs, there's ordinary commerce and statesmanship between states that share a similar language, culture, commerce, etc. Throw a vengeful USA in the mix that refuses to accept the breakup, there's now a common enemy that requires cooperation for both states mutual self-interest.

---

Nice. Pretty close to exactly the scenario I proposed on the Entertainment Board discussion.

There are so many possibilities that could lead to both Texas and CA telling DC adios. If, you're willing to entertain, even just for fun, a splitting of the nation. From there, it is not illogical that TX and CA could find common ground for numerous mutually beneficial reasons (mostly security and economics). And frankly we'd probably all be happier for the divorce.

---

the 600,000 dead Union soldiers from 1861-65 would not be happier.

---

360,000.
600,000 figure is total of both sides in the War of Notthern Aggression.

---

With the arguments people are having over just sending weapons to keep Russia at bay, I can't imagine the frothing if an actual state secession attempt led the death of hundreds of thousands of Americans.

---

The left's drive to embrace Communism, a proven deadly ideology could also lead to hundreds of thousands of deaths.

You bash ideas without offering an alternatives

---

The number of people this country who actively advocate for communism WHILE actually knowing what they are doing/espousing is on the order of tens of thousands at most. It is an entirely inconsequential and tiny minority.

What we have in this country are mainstream Democratic voters, the majority of whom remain far to the right of every liberal party in Europe and Canada, a decent but still relatively tiny number of avowed socialists, even fewer avowed communists, and a much larger number of ignorant (usually young) individuals who say things they have heard and don't understand.

Some of you really need to go out and travel a bit. The rest of the western world regards America as this bastion of wild ass cowboys who love bibles, guns and MIGHT stumble across a European style liberal enlightenment sometime this century. The American Democratic Party is viewed as, by far, the most right wing liberal party in among all the European style republics/democracies. Our Democratic Party is closer to the liberal parties in places like South Korea and Japan than to any in Europe.

---

This. When I was covering the DSA in Chicago back in Bernie/Biden battle in 2019-20, the number of DSA members who said they wanted socialism was nearly 100%. When I followed that up with asking about the idea eliminating markets, property, and currency, they looked at me like I was insane. There was very clear disconnect between their version of socialism and actual socialism, which led them to push an ideology they didn't remotely understand.

That being said, there are always "true believers" in the same way that Trump could shoot someone in a public square and his flock would cheer him on. One guy, I kid you not, said that living in Soviet Russia would have been better than living in the U.S. because "at least they had free housing".

It's always a kick to see someone talk about the need for socialism, and in the same exact diatribe talk about their inability to afford a home as one of the reasons that change is needed.

I am skeptical of your level of certainty. I agree that some portions of the population will fit nicely in your groups you've identified however I am less convinced of the certainty regarding numbers and conclusions that can be made.

My concern is less socialism specific and more with the reality that as we have moved and continue to move towards a more authoritarian supporting populace with a more powerful and centralized federal government that at some point the scales will tip one way or the other.

Quote:

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That being said, there are always "true believers" in the same way that Trump could shoot someone in a public square and his flock would cheer him on

---

I can't stand Trump as a person and I wish that DeSantis had won the nomination. I also hate the overuse of "TDS".

But throwing that in a response out of left field was why the phrase Trump Derangement Syndrome was invented.

Infection_Ag11 said:

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Reality Check said:

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TexasAggiesWin said:

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Civil War, Secession all sounds great and well until **** hits the fan. That is the entire purpose of a movie like this, to explore exactly how brutal it would be.

---

Or we could all peacefully decide that Texas is better off being governed by Texans and have a Brexit type departure.

---

The long term viability of an independent Texas can be debated, but it is a fact that we would not be better off.

And Brexit has worked out so poorly for the Brits that within the next few years they are going to be forced to come groveling to the US and accept our existing terms for an economic alliance that will be far worse for them than the deal they had with the EU. At present the only reason it hasn't happened yet is their pride. But it's been an unmitigated economic disaster for them.

---

It's been such an unmitigated economic disaster that they've gone from the 5th best country based on GDP prior to Brexit to the 5th best country based on GDP now.

An absolute collapse of their economy.

Fenrir said:

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I am skeptical of your level of certainty. I agree that some portions of the population will fit nicely in your groups you've identified however I am less convinced of the certainty regarding numbers and conclusions that can be made.

My concern is less socialism specific and more with the reality that as we have moved and continue to move towards a more authoritarian supporting populace with a more powerful and centralized federal government that at some point the scales will tip one way or the other.

---

The latter point is a far more realistic concern, and one that is plaguing both ends of the spectrum at present.

It seems a great many Americans have grown tired of checks and balances keeping things more or less stable, though I'm sure they'd call it stagnant (or worse). And because of that we're seeing large numbers of voters advocate more and more openly for their side to govern with an ever more weighty iron fist. This isn't going to lead to socialism though, it will simply lead to more violent end to end power swings every 4-8 years as sweeping changes come with every new administration.

The firm belief that authoritarian control cannot lead to the implementation of any specific economic system or range of political beliefs is not grounded in reality.

Ag with kids said:

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Infection_Ag11 said:

---

Reality Check said:

---

TexasAggiesWin said:

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Civil War, Secession all sounds great and well until **** hits the fan. That is the entire purpose of a movie like this, to explore exactly how brutal it would be.

---

Or we could all peacefully decide that Texas is better off being governed by Texans and have a Brexit type departure.

---

The long term viability of an independent Texas can be debated, but it is a fact that we would not be better off.

And Brexit has worked out so poorly for the Brits that within the next few years they are going to be forced to come groveling to the US and accept our existing terms for an economic alliance that will be far worse for them than the deal they had with the EU. At present the only reason it hasn't happened yet is their pride. But it's been an unmitigated economic disaster for them.

---

It's been such an unmitigated economic disaster that they've gone from the 5th best country based on GDP prior to Brexit to the 5th best country based on GDP now.

An absolute collapse of their economy.

---

Foreign investment remains down by over 25% per-Brexit, they've lost a net 330k workers, their inflation rate has consistently been 1-8% higher than the rest of the major economic powers from 2021 - present (they had nearly a full year of double digit inflation from 2022 - 2023) and it's the only top 10 economy in the world that is doing worse now in terms of GDP growth (-0.4%) than they were pre-pandemic.

The post pandemic bounce back really highlighted the deficiencies of their decision to go it alone. They are the only first world economy that has yet to resume growth beyond pre-pandemic levels.

Maybe these kids are caught up in romanticism of equality of commie socialism to assuage a sick reflexive jealousy occurring daily, hourly, connected to data pipeline being force fed awareness of everybody else's success.

Like the hippies of the 60's pursuing free love, communes, sharing, peace, and other dumb ass goals you can do to avoid responsibility. The responsibility of being a productive human being.

Most kids grow up, other's don't, as can be witnessed: The shining examples now occupying the House or Senate. The one shining worst is that bozo y'all elected for president; not only unproductive in life, but a vile corrupt dementia riddled pedo.

Get on the train dumbasses.

Fenrir said:

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The firm belief that authoritarian control cannot lead to the implementation of any specific economic system or range of political beliefs is not grounded in reality.

---

Sure it can, it just won't in this country. Americans and Europeans are wired very differently. Our populations simply won't go along with the facist or communist style authoritarian chess move that we saw overtake European powers in the last century. We'll keep going along with the swings until they stabilize or until one party tries their true authoritarian power move, at which point we'll dissolve into violence and separation not amenable to the methods used by the bolsheviks in Russia. Our population as a whole doesn't value security and stability over freedoms the same way Europeans do.

Also our system of government makes those sort of events much more difficult here. Our republic is simply too clunky (by design) to efficiently and rapidly gain totalitarian control.

TRADUCTOR said:

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Maybe these kids are caught up in romanticism of equality of commie socialism to assuage a sick reflexive jealousy occurring daily, hourly, connected to data pipeline being force fed awareness of everybody else's success.

Like the hippies of the 60's pursuing free love, communes, sharing, peace, and other dumb ass goals you can do to avoid responsibility. The responsibility of being a productive human being.

Most kids grow up, other's don't, as can be witnessed: The shining examples now occupying the House or Senate. The one shining worst is that bozo y'all elected for president; not only unproductive in life, but a vile corrupt dementia riddled pedo.

Get on the train dumbasses.

---

It's remarkable how we've seemingly forgotten that ALL the current talking points are just copy/pasted from the 1960s. Literally EVERYTHING people say about liberal young people today was said then, and then when those kids hit their peak production years in the 80s and 90s we saw the biggest wealth/prosperity/freedom explosion in human history.

Turns out dumb liberal teenagers and 20 somethings grow up to be productive, competent and often more conservative citizens in their 30s and beyond. Hell it's almost like there's a long well documented precedent for this….

BassCowboy33 said:

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Infection_Ag11 said:

---

Reality Check said:

---

TexasAggiesWin said:

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Civil War, Secession all sounds great and well until **** hits the fan. That is the entire purpose of a movie like this, to explore exactly how brutal it would be.

---

Or we could all peacefully decide that Texas is better off being governed by Texans and have a Brexit type departure.

---

The long term viability of an independent Texas can be debated, but it is a fact that we would not be better off.

And Brexit has worked out so poorly for the Brits that within the next few years they are going to be forced to come groveling to the US and accept our existing terms for an economic alliance that will be far worse for them than the deal they had with the EU. At present the only reason it hasn't happened yet is their pride. But it's been an unmitigated economic disaster for them.

---

There was a big piece in the Journal about Brexit the other day. You thought inflation was bad here, wooooo boy.

---

As if hundreds and hundreds of problems created by a bloated federal government that was originally purposed to ensure fair trade among states and protection of its people from the very type of invasion we've seen for three years aren't infinitely worse than a temporary economic downturn.

And please explain why a peaceful exit of ANY state or territory from the union is a fantasy?

Reality Check said:

---

BassCowboy33 said:

---

Infection_Ag11 said:

---

Reality Check said:

---

TexasAggiesWin said:

---

Civil War, Secession all sounds great and well until **** hits the fan. That is the entire purpose of a movie like this, to explore exactly how brutal it would be.

---

Or we could all peacefully decide that Texas is better off being governed by Texans and have a Brexit type departure.

---

The long term viability of an independent Texas can be debated, but it is a fact that we would not be better off.

And Brexit has worked out so poorly for the Brits that within the next few years they are going to be forced to come groveling to the US and accept our existing terms for an economic alliance that will be far worse for them than the deal they had with the EU. At present the only reason it hasn't happened yet is their pride. But it's been an unmitigated economic disaster for them.

---

There was a big piece in the Journal about Brexit the other day. You thought inflation was bad here, wooooo boy.

---

As if hundreds and hundreds of problems created by a bloated federal government that was originally purposed to ensure fair trade among states and protection of its people from the very type of invasion we've seen for three years aren't infinitely worse than a temporary economic downturn.

And please explain why a peaceful exit of ANY state or territory from the union is a fantasy?

---

Because the United States would not allow it. It's fairly simple. The idea that the U.S. would let one of its bellcows (or any state) just walk away with a smile and pat on the back isn't realistic. The U.S. is going to fight tooth and nail to keep itself united. I realize we're arguing over which near-zero chance is more likely, but I have a harder time imagining a world where the U.S. allows Texas to up and leave than I do a world where it fights to prevent the Union's dissolution.

Stupe said:

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Quote:

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That being said, there are always "true believers" in the same way that Trump could shoot someone in a public square and his flock would cheer him on

---

I can't stand Trump as a person and I wish that DeSantis had won the nomination. I also hate the overuse of "TDS".

But throwing that in a response out of left field was why the phrase Trump Derangement Syndrome was invented.

---

That's actually taken from Trump's own much-publicized words, which is why I used it:
Trump: I could kill somebody on 5th Avenue and not lose any voters

Quote:

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"I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?" Trump remarked at a campaign stop at Dordt College in Sioux Center, Iowa. "It's, like, incredible."

---

The Boys parodied these remarks late in S3 as well by having a crowd cheer Homelander as he eviscerates a dissenter.

But by focusing on that one line, we lose the broader point of the post, which was that most socialists don't actually know what socialism is.

An actual civil war wouldn't be a bunch of rural rednecks fighting the national guard. It would be bloods, crips, gangster/black disciples, hells angels, MS13, and every other street gang targeting anyone who doesn't have the means to protect their life and property. Which would mostly be good intentioned affluent white progressive liberals.

A civil war also won't happen unless there is a great depression type of economic downturn, without the gov ability to QE itself out of it. That type of collapse won't happen until the US loses USD global reserve status.

So now you know what to watch out for....civil wars don't happen when the S&P is making new highs and people's retirement accounts are flush with cash.

Holy thread derail, Batman.

So, there's a theory that says if you have a conversation long enough, it eventually will devolve into a discussion about Hitler. I think there needs to be a messageboard addendum that says if you have a thread long enough, someone will hijack it into a COVID discussion.

BassCowboy33 said:

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Holy thread derail, Batman.

So, there's a theory that says if you have a conversation long enough, it eventually will devolve into a discussion about Hitler. I think there needs to be a messageboard addendum that says if you have a thread long enough, someone will hijack it into a COVID discussion.

---

Even if you have to make **** up to do it, apparently

I am pretty sure that is lefties that are historically illeterate, philosophically deficient snd praying for civil war.

All i know, as I have said before, they want you dead. They claim otherwise, but their actions speak louder than words. The real insurrectionists were antifa and blm and every single lefty that justified, supported or didnt condemn them. Those are all lefties. They want war. They lust for it.

BassCowboy33 said:

---

Holy thread derail, Batman.

So, there's a theory that says if you have a conversation long enough, it eventually will devolve into a discussion about Hitler. I think there needs to be a messageboard addendum that says if you have a thread long enough, someone will hijack it into a COVID discussion.

---

Says the poster that randomly brought up Trump.

Infection_Ag11 said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

Infection_Ag11 said:

---

Reality Check said:

---

TexasAggiesWin said:

---

Civil War, Secession all sounds great and well until **** hits the fan. That is the entire purpose of a movie like this, to explore exactly how brutal it would be.

---

Or we could all peacefully decide that Texas is better off being governed by Texans and have a Brexit type departure.

---

The long term viability of an independent Texas can be debated, but it is a fact that we would not be better off.

And Brexit has worked out so poorly for the Brits that within the next few years they are going to be forced to come groveling to the US and accept our existing terms for an economic alliance that will be far worse for them than the deal they had with the EU. At present the only reason it hasn't happened yet is their pride. But it's been an unmitigated economic disaster for them.

---

It's been such an unmitigated economic disaster that they've gone from the 5th best country based on GDP prior to Brexit to the 5th best country based on GDP now.

An absolute collapse of their economy.

---

Foreign investment remains down by over 25% per-Brexit, they've lost a net 330k workers, their inflation rate has consistently been 1-8% higher than the rest of the major economic powers from 2021 - present (they had nearly a full year of double digit inflation from 2022 - 2023) and it's the only top 10 economy in the world that is doing worse now in terms of GDP growth (-0.4%) than they were pre-pandemic.

The post pandemic bounce back really highlighted the deficiencies of their decision to go it alone. They are the only first world economy that has yet to resume growth beyond pre-pandemic levels.

---

The funny thing is that even with that, their GDP grew more than the strongest economy in the EU - Germany.

I guess Brexit was bad for the Huns, too.

BassCowboy33 said:

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I do find it humorous that some people are going into a fictional Civil War film, like, "Texas and California would never team up."

Bro, it's a movie. Just enjoy it.

---

Clearly liberals agree that "it's just a movie", lol.

Why do idiot leftists think QAnon is even a thing for the vast majority of Republican voters?

Stupe said:

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BassCowboy33 said:

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Holy thread derail, Batman.

So, there's a theory that says if you have a conversation long enough, it eventually will devolve into a discussion about Hitler. I think there needs to be a messageboard addendum that says if you have a thread long enough, someone will hijack it into a COVID discussion.

---

Says the poster that randomly brought up Trump.

---

It was a comparison of the true believers on both sides. If I'd have known peeps would take a hard right on that one line, I'd have used a separate example to illustrate the point.

As a side note, I saw Keegan99 was posting in those screencaps. Haven't seen him in awhile...

BassCowboy33 said:

---

Reality Check said:

---

BassCowboy33 said:

---

Infection_Ag11 said:

---

Reality Check said:

---

TexasAggiesWin said:

---

Civil War, Secession all sounds great and well until **** hits the fan. That is the entire purpose of a movie like this, to explore exactly how brutal it would be.

---

Or we could all peacefully decide that Texas is better off being governed by Texans and have a Brexit type departure.

---

The long term viability of an independent Texas can be debated, but it is a fact that we would not be better off.

And Brexit has worked out so poorly for the Brits that within the next few years they are going to be forced to come groveling to the US and accept our existing terms for an economic alliance that will be far worse for them than the deal they had with the EU. At present the only reason it hasn't happened yet is their pride. But it's been an unmitigated economic disaster for them.

---

There was a big piece in the Journal about Brexit the other day. You thought inflation was bad here, wooooo boy.

---

As if hundreds and hundreds of problems created by a bloated federal government that was originally purposed to ensure fair trade among states and protection of its people from the very type of invasion we've seen for three years aren't infinitely worse than a temporary economic downturn.

And please explain why a peaceful exit of ANY state or territory from the union is a fantasy?

---

Because the United States would not allow it. It's fairly simple. The idea that the U.S. would let one of its bellcows (or any state) just walk away with a smile and pat on the back isn't realistic. The U.S. is going to fight tooth and nail to keep itself united. I realize we're arguing over which near-zero chance is more likely, but I have a harder time imagining a world where the U.S. allows Texas to up and leave than I do a world where it fights to prevent the Union's dissolution.

---

So, if Texas PEACEFULLY petitioned to leave the union, do you honestly think that the FedGov would FORCIBLY prevent it from happening by using the military?

I think that's very far-fetched...one huge difference now is in the make up of the military. At the time of the Civil War, most Union units that fought against the South were comprised of people from Union states. And the converse was true for the South.

Today, the US military is a hodge podge of people from all over the US. You likely couldn't field any units that wouldn't have Texans in them...or units that had numerous soldiers that AGREED with Texas.

And would the US military actually start firing on and killing other Americans to force them to stay? Could the brass get the rank and file to actually do that?

Ag with kids said:

---

BassCowboy33 said:

---

Reality Check said:

---

BassCowboy33 said:

---

Infection_Ag11 said:

---

Reality Check said:

---

TexasAggiesWin said:

---

Civil War, Secession all sounds great and well until **** hits the fan. That is the entire purpose of a movie like this, to explore exactly how brutal it would be.

---

Or we could all peacefully decide that Texas is better off being governed by Texans and have a Brexit type departure.

---

The long term viability of an independent Texas can be debated, but it is a fact that we would not be better off.

And Brexit has worked out so poorly for the Brits that within the next few years they are going to be forced to come groveling to the US and accept our existing terms for an economic alliance that will be far worse for them than the deal they had with the EU. At present the only reason it hasn't happened yet is their pride. But it's been an unmitigated economic disaster for them.

---

There was a big piece in the Journal about Brexit the other day. You thought inflation was bad here, wooooo boy.

---

As if hundreds and hundreds of problems created by a bloated federal government that was originally purposed to ensure fair trade among states and protection of its people from the very type of invasion we've seen for three years aren't infinitely worse than a temporary economic downturn.

And please explain why a peaceful exit of ANY state or territory from the union is a fantasy?

---

Because the United States would not allow it. It's fairly simple. The idea that the U.S. would let one of its bellcows (or any state) just walk away with a smile and pat on the back isn't realistic. The U.S. is going to fight tooth and nail to keep itself united. I realize we're arguing over which near-zero chance is more likely, but I have a harder time imagining a world where the U.S. allows Texas to up and leave than I do a world where it fights to prevent the Union's dissolution.

---

So, if Texas PEACEFULLY petitioned to leave the union, do you honestly think that the FedGov would FORCIBLY prevent it from happening by using the military?

I think that's very far-fetched...one huge difference now is in the make up of the military. At the time of the Civil War, most Union units that fought against the South were comprised of people from Union states. And the converse was true for the South.

Today, the US military is a hodge podge of people from all over the US. You likely couldn't field any units that wouldn't have Texans in them...or units that had numerous soldiers that AGREED with Texas.

And would the US military actually start firing on and killing other Americans to force them to stay? Could the brass get the rank and file to actually do that?

---

Good question. I believe that if Texas peacefully petitioned for secession to the federal government, the U.S. would laugh and move on to more serious matters.

To add an edit, as a former servicemember who served in combat zones, the Oath is to America, not to Texas. You might have some Texans who jump ship, but nowhere close to enough to make a difference.

Also a civil war wont be like Ukraine. It will be an insurrgency.

Less than a thousand men could bring this country to a halt

samurai_science said:

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Also a civil war wont be like Ukraine. It will be an insurrgency.

Less than a thousand men could bring this country to a halt

---

Agree, mostly. I don't thing Texas government would ever make a move. Too much on the line economically and the state has it way too good. A large group of gung-ho wannabes blowing up government buildings and assassinating politicians? They could definitely move the needle. But, at that point, it wades into terrorism.

BassCowboy33 said:

---

samurai_science said:

---

Also a civil war wont be like Ukraine. It will be an insurrgency.

Less than a thousand men could bring this country to a halt

---

Agree, mostly. I don't thing Texas government would ever make a move. Too much on the line economically and the state has it way too good. A large group of gung-ho wannabes blowing up government buildings and assassinating politicians? They could definitely move the needle. But, at that point, it wades into terrorism.

---

Terriorism to some, heroes to others. Guess it depends on your point of view

samurai_science said:

---

BassCowboy33 said:

---

samurai_science said:

---

Also a civil war wont be like Ukraine. It will be an insurrgency.

Less than a thousand men could bring this country to a halt

---

Agree, mostly. I don't thing Texas government would ever make a move. Too much on the line economically and the state has it way too good. A large group of gung-ho wannabes blowing up government buildings and assassinating politicians? They could definitely move the needle. But, at that point, it wades into terrorism.

---

Terriorism to some, heroes to others. Guess it depends on your point of view

---

One man's terrorist is another man's idol. The dichotomy of politics by other means.

BassCowboy33 said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

BassCowboy33 said:

---

Reality Check said:

---

BassCowboy33 said:

---

Infection_Ag11 said:

---

Reality Check said:

---

TexasAggiesWin said:

---

Civil War, Secession all sounds great and well until **** hits the fan. That is the entire purpose of a movie like this, to explore exactly how brutal it would be.

---

Or we could all peacefully decide that Texas is better off being governed by Texans and have a Brexit type departure.

---

The long term viability of an independent Texas can be debated, but it is a fact that we would not be better off.

And Brexit has worked out so poorly for the Brits that within the next few years they are going to be forced to come groveling to the US and accept our existing terms for an economic alliance that will be far worse for them than the deal they had with the EU. At present the only reason it hasn't happened yet is their pride. But it's been an unmitigated economic disaster for them.

---

There was a big piece in the Journal about Brexit the other day. You thought inflation was bad here, wooooo boy.

---

As if hundreds and hundreds of problems created by a bloated federal government that was originally purposed to ensure fair trade among states and protection of its people from the very type of invasion we've seen for three years aren't infinitely worse than a temporary economic downturn.

And please explain why a peaceful exit of ANY state or territory from the union is a fantasy?

---

Because the United States would not allow it. It's fairly simple. The idea that the U.S. would let one of its bellcows (or any state) just walk away with a smile and pat on the back isn't realistic. The U.S. is going to fight tooth and nail to keep itself united. I realize we're arguing over which near-zero chance is more likely, but I have a harder time imagining a world where the U.S. allows Texas to up and leave than I do a world where it fights to prevent the Union's dissolution.

---

So, if Texas PEACEFULLY petitioned to leave the union, do you honestly think that the FedGov would FORCIBLY prevent it from happening by using the military?

I think that's very far-fetched...one huge difference now is in the make up of the military. At the time of the Civil War, most Union units that fought against the South were comprised of people from Union states. And the converse was true for the South.

Today, the US military is a hodge podge of people from all over the US. You likely couldn't field any units that wouldn't have Texans in them...or units that had numerous soldiers that AGREED with Texas.

And would the US military actually start firing on and killing other Americans to force them to stay? Could the brass get the rank and file to actually do that?

---

Good question. I believe that if Texas peacefully petitioned for secession to the federal government, the U.S. would laugh and move on to more serious matters.

To add an edit, as a former servicemember who served in combat zones, the Oath is to America, not to Texas. You might have some Texans who jump ship, but nowhere close to enough to make a difference.

---

So, would those soldiers fire at and willingly kill AMERICANS in order to force Texas to stay in the union? Would the Congress be able to even get enough votes authorize the military to perform that act? Since it would require an act of Congress to override the Posse Comitatus Act.

Would YOU, as a service member have fired upon people in Texas to enforce this?

BassCowboy33 said:

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samurai_science said:

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BassCowboy33 said:

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samurai_science said:

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Also a civil war wont be like Ukraine. It will be an insurrgency.

Less than a thousand men could bring this country to a halt

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Agree, mostly. I don't thing Texas government would ever make a move. Too much on the line economically and the state has it way too good. A large group of gung-ho wannabes blowing up government buildings and assassinating politicians? They could definitely move the needle. But, at that point, it wades into terrorism.

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Terriorism to some, heroes to others. Guess it depends on your point of view

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One man's terrorist is another man's idol. The dichotomy of politics by other means.

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The founding fathers were traitors and terrorists according to the British...