Malibu said:

---

The premise of CA an TX teaming up is actually fairly well thought out in the movie universe. Both states, for different reasons, decide they are far better off as independent nation states than staying bound to Washington. Once both go their separate ways and aren't constantly trolling each other in domestic affairs, there's ordinary commerce and statesmanship between states that share a similar language, culture, commerce, etc. Throw a vengeful USA in the mix that refuses to accept the breakup, there's now a common enemy that requires cooperation for both states mutual self-interest.

---

The reason this would not or should not ever happen isn't because in this scenario while there may be rational and reasonable common cause for alliance, it's that most Texans know that you can never, ever trust a leftist. They are liars and dishonest to the core.

The starting point for this alliance from the Texas perspective should be when will their Californian 'allies' betray them and what form it would take.

Edit: cut and paste error changed sentence meaning

As I recall part of the plot of this movie is about journalism - I believe not having serious journalism anymore as a pre-cursor to allowing such a rogue President/Fed government.

As for Texas + Cali on the same team? Enemy of my enemy, etc can result in strange bedfellows.

The people who think this movie is liberal propaganda are the same ones who actively call for secession from the union on here on a daily basis

American Hardwood said:

---

Malibu said:

---

The premise of CA an TX teaming up is actually fairly well thought out in the movie universe. Both states, for different reasons, decide they are far better off as independent nation states than staying bound to Washington. Once both go their separate ways and aren't constantly trolling each other in domestic affairs, there's ordinary commerce and statesmanship between states that share a similar language, culture, commerce, etc. Throw a vengeful USA in the mix that refuses to accept the breakup, there's now a common enemy that requires cooperation for both states mutual self-interest.

---

The reason this would not or should not ever happen isn't because in this scenario there wouldn't be rational and reasonable common cause, it's that most Texans know that you can never, ever trust a leftist. They are liars and dishonest to the core.

The starting point for this alliance from the Texas perspective should be when will their Californian 'allies' betray them and what form it would take.

---

There is precedent. Just look at the alliance between the West and the USSR in WW2. Very little in common with one another, but a common enemy that could probably defeat either of them standing alone.

Mike Hancho said:

---

The people who think this movie should be banned are the same ones who actively call for secession from the union

---

Whose calling for banning this movie ?

DarkBrandon01 said:

---

There won't be a civil war. Very few people want to throw their lives away for stupid nonsense.

---

As we saw in the 1860s, all you have to do is grant them citizenship and they'll fight to preserve a union they don't even live in.

ttu_85 said:

---

Tex117 said:

---

Here comes the pearl-clutching again.

Good grief.

Look, Im the absolute FIRST person to say anyone advocating for a "national divorce" is a weaponized moron, but worrying about some movie is just stupid.

---

Oh yeah, lets sing "All is Well". Times have never been better. The states, the 3 branches of gov are humming long better than ever. There are no problems.

Here is the opposite end of the spectrum the "'Look at Me' see how smart I am". I just stick my fingers in my ears and close my eyes and call everyone a that sees a problem a "weaponized moron."

History has proven its people that think as you do are the WTF morons. How could you not see a problem here.

Like First Bull Run with the picnic laughing until the first bullet whizzed by their empty heads. Or the French Rev or Russian Revolutions when the first blades or bullets kissed their sleeping still in-denial targets.

Sure people can over react. And the really dumbs one UNDER react.

---

If you think that destabilizing the most powerful country in the world would end well for not only its citizens but for almost all of the rest of the world, you are deeply....DEEPLY mistaken.

Your analogy is better couched as the fall of the Roman Empire, not the French Revolution. And the fall of the Roman Empire ushered in centuries of middling advancement.

You are living in a fantasy...absolute delusional fantasy...that breaking up the United States is a good idea. You have swallowed the lure of propaganda from our enemies.

Are there issues? Yup. But still issues that can be addressed.

Not if they take the guns.

ttu_85 said:

---

Mike Hancho said:

---

The people who think this movie should be banned are the same ones who actively call for secession from the union

---

Whose calling for banning this movie ?

---

Yeah, I would like an answer to that question as well.

I've not seen ANYONE making that call.

The trailer is VERY careful not to reveal the REASON for the secessions, and I suspect that the film will do the same. The story does not seem to be about the reason for the conflict, but instead about the survival of some people caught-up in it.

Still be addressed? That's optimistic. An American breakup will be bad for the world, sure, but so would America sinking into a gigantic Marxist failure. At least with a Civil War there is a chance for redemption. There would be no chance for recovery once the Marxists have taken over completely with the technology and tools available to tyrants today.

TexasRebel said:

---

Not if they take the guns.

---

Huh?

Antoninus said:

---

American Hardwood said:

---

Malibu said:

---

The premise of CA an TX teaming up is actually fairly well thought out in the movie universe. Both states, for different reasons, decide they are far better off as independent nation states than staying bound to Washington. Once both go their separate ways and aren't constantly trolling each other in domestic affairs, there's ordinary commerce and statesmanship between states that share a similar language, culture, commerce, etc. Throw a vengeful USA in the mix that refuses to accept the breakup, there's now a common enemy that requires cooperation for both states mutual self-interest.

---

The reason this would not or should not ever happen isn't because in this scenario there wouldn't be rational and reasonable common cause, it's that most Texans know that you can never, ever trust a leftist. They are liars and dishonest to the core.

The starting point for this alliance from the Texas perspective should be when will their Californian 'allies' betray them and what form it would take.

---

There is precedent. Just look at the alliance between the West and the USSR in WW2. Very little in common with one another, but a common enemy that could probably defeat either of them standing alone.

---

There is quite a lot of examples of massive betrayal too. Just recently I saw some of our allies falling off the wings of airplanes fleeing Afghanistan.

Never trust a leftist. Liars to the core.

The issues can only be addressed while the populace is armed.

American Hardwood said:

---

Still be addressed? That's optimistic. An American breakup will be bad for the world, sure, but so would America sinking into a gigantic Marxist failure. At least with a Civil War there is a chance for redemption. There would be no chance for recovery once the Marxists have taken over completely with the technology and tools available to tyrants today.

---

There would be no chance of recovery for the United States anytime in the next hundred (or longer) years if a Civil War occurred. If this occurred, your life and your children's life would be instantly worse.

The reserve currency of the world would switch to the Yen. Our financial system (and much of the worlds) would collapse (because much of it is based in the stability of the US). Our sphere of influence would fall significantly. The vacuum would allow China (with Russia in toe), to solidify the Axis of power.

All of us would be poorer overnight.

And this is just the economic fall out.

Tex117 said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

Tex117 said:

---

Here comes the pearl-clutching again.

Good grief.

Look, Im the absolute FIRST person to say anyone advocating for a "national divorce" is a weaponized moron, but worrying about some movie is just stupid.

---

Oh yeah, lets sing "All is Well". Times have never been better. The states, the 3 branches of gov are humming long better than ever. There are no problems.

Here is the opposite end of the spectrum the "'Look at Me' see how smart I am". I just stick my fingers in my ears and close my eyes and call everyone a that sees a problem a "weaponized moron."

History has proven its people that think as you do are the WTF morons. How could you not see a problem here.

Like First Bull Run with the picnic laughing until the first bullet whizzed by their empty heads. Or the French Rev or Russian Revolutions when the first blades or bullets kissed their sleeping still in-denial targets.

Sure people can over react. And the really dumbs one UNDER react.

---

1>If you think that destabilizing the most powerful country in the world would end well for not only its citizens but for almost all of the rest of the world, you are deeply....DEEPLY mistaken.

2> Your analogy is better couched as the fall of the Roman Empire, not the French Revolution. And the fall of the Roman Empire ushered in centuries of middling advancement.

3> You are living in a fantasy...absolute delusional fantasy...that breaking up the United States is a good idea. You have swallowed the lure of propaganda from our enemies.

4>Are there issues? Yup. But still issues that can be addressed.

---

Uh, you like to jump to conclusions. Its what self righteous libs do.

1> NOBODY said "destabilizing the most powerful country in the world would end well for not only its citizens but for almost all of the rest of the world." Duh!!!. Everyone knows it would be a disaster. The question is what is the greater disaster: THIS creeping leftest tyranny or the risk of saving a piece of the founding Republic.
Personally I like the idea of Federalism- If Cali and NY want to destroy themselves cool. Just dont demand that I or Texas do.

2> No I'll stick with the French Rev given I was attacking your arrogant yet ignorant attitude. And No Roman Empire didn't really advance the dial. The Roman Republic did, the Empire not so much. The French Rev is more indicative of the current US situation by FAR.

3> Oh more self righteousness while missing the point. It is the radical left that is pushing the breakup of the US as it exist in its founding Republican form by subverting with Marxism.

And just stop with the stupid accusations of listening to Russian propaganda. ALL of this is being ushered in by abuse of the Executive Branch of our government.

4>And your right the issues can be address assuming we had a fair press and government that followed the laws currently on the books. But they dont.

TexasRebel said:

---

The issues can only be addressed while the populace is armed.

---

Im for the second amendment. And believe that responsible gun ownership is a right.

Quote:

---

the 600,000 dead Union soldiers from 1861-65 would not be happier.

---

I just can't let this factual inaccuracy pass.

There is recent debate about the losses in the Civil War (several scholars saying that the generally accepted number is a vast undercount), but most scholars put the total dead of both sides at about 620,000.

Antoninus said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

Mike Hancho said:

---

The people who think this movie should be banned are the same ones who actively call for secession from the union

---

Whose calling for banning this movie ?

---

Yeah, I would like an answer to that question as well.

I've not seen ANYONE making that call.

The trailer is VERY careful not to reveal the REASON for the secessions, and I suspect that the film will do the same. The story does not seem to be about the reason for the conflict, but instead about the survival of some people caught-up in it.

---

Yeah that poster is always pulling stuff out his ass.

I agree with your comments.

the people with the picnics at First Bull Run did not have bullets whizzing by their heads.

they were civilians who had gone out to see the battle and were miles away.

the more appropriate analogy would be the Southern leaders in Mississippi and South Carolina who believed the North would not fight,

and if they did it would "take a thimble to hold all the blood to be spilled"

ttu_85 said:

---

Tex117 said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

Tex117 said:

---

Here comes the pearl-clutching again.

Good grief.

Look, Im the absolute FIRST person to say anyone advocating for a "national divorce" is a weaponized moron, but worrying about some movie is just stupid.

---

Oh yeah, lets sing "All is Well". Times have never been better. The states, the 3 branches of gov are humming long better than ever. There are no problems.

Here is the opposite end of the spectrum the "'Look at Me' see how smart I am". I just stick my fingers in my ears and close my eyes and call everyone a that sees a problem a "weaponized moron."

History has proven its people that think as you do are the WTF morons. How could you not see a problem here.

Like First Bull Run with the picnic laughing until the first bullet whizzed by their empty heads. Or the French Rev or Russian Revolutions when the first blades or bullets kissed their sleeping still in-denial targets.

Sure people can over react. And the really dumbs one UNDER react.

---

1>If you think that destabilizing the most powerful country in the world would end well for not only its citizens but for almost all of the rest of the world, you are deeply....DEEPLY mistaken.

2> Your analogy is better couched as the fall of the Roman Empire, not the French Revolution. And the fall of the Roman Empire ushered in centuries of middling advancement.

3> You are living in a fantasy...absolute delusional fantasy...that breaking up the United States is a good idea. You have swallowed the lure of propaganda from our enemies.

4>Are there issues? Yup. But still issues that can be addressed.

---

Uh, you like to jump to conclusions. Its what self righteous libs do.

1> NOBODY said "destabilizing the most powerful country in the world would end well for not only its citizens but for almost all of the rest of the world." Duh!!!. Everyone knows it would be a disaster. The question is what is the greater disaster: THIS creeping leftest tyranny or the risk of saving a piece of the founding Republic.
Personally I like the idea of Federalism- If Cali and NY want to destroy themselves cool. Just dont demand that I or Texas do.

2> No I'll stick with the French Rev given I was attacking your arrogant yet ignorant attitude.And No Roman Empire didn't really advance the dial. The Roman Republic did, the Empire not so much. The French Rev is more indicative of the current US situation by FAR.

3> Oh more self righteousness while missing the point. It is the radical left that is pushing the breakup of the US as it exist in its founding Republican form.
And just stop with the stupid accusations of listening to Russian propaganda. ALL of this is being ushered in by abuse of the Executive Branch of our government.

4>And your right the issues can be address assuming we had a fair press and government that followed the laws currently on the books. But they dont.






The argument is: Is it better to l

---

(1). The greatest disaster would be the failure of the American experiment. The evolution of western thought. This will usher in MORE tyranny. Not less. If history is any indication.

(2) No. Its the Roman Empire. And if you can't see why....well....okay.

(3) Funny, most of the time reading about the "national divorce" its coming from the dingbat righties. I will, however, agree that the left is often manipulating the systems to limit what a "democracy" is.

(4) We agree here. The thing is...WE aren't demanding a fair press. This is the real rub. WE don't vote for politicians that uphold the ideals of democracy. WE don't watch or read news that is truly fair. WE are allowing ourselves to be manipulated. Thus why I'm hopeful that WE can figure out how not to be so manipulated (its because we are learning how to exist after the communication revolution of the internet.)


Also, I'm not a leftist. Someone that disagrees with your position is not automatically a leftist.

There are other metrics for the quality of one's life than the ones you identify.

LMCane said:

---

1> the people with the picnics at First Bull Run did not have bullets whizzing by their heads.

2> they were civilians who had gone out to see the battle and were miles away.

3> the more appropriate analogy would be the Southern leaders in Mississippi and South Carolina who believed the North would not fight,

and if they did it would "take a thimble to hold all the blood to be spilled"

---

1> WRONG. To hell they didn't they broke in ran in a panic. If the Confeds hadn't been as confused and disorganized they would have walked into Washington.

2> True Civies that thought it was a joke. Thus my point. And they did panic and bullets did land among them. Fortunately both armies were untrained and could barely hit the side of a barn.

3> Yes truth. And their were those that thought the South was bluffing. Kinda the same. Go back read my point of this post. You are making my primary point.

Mike Hancho said:

---

The people who think this movie should be banned are the same ones who actively call for secession from the union

---

I feel like that venn-diagram is two circles instead of one circle like you think it is.

Tex117 said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

Tex117 said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

Tex117 said:

---

Here comes the pearl-clutching again.

Good grief.

Look, Im the absolute FIRST person to say anyone advocating for a "national divorce" is a weaponized moron, but worrying about some movie is just stupid.

---

Oh yeah, lets sing "All is Well". Times have never been better. The states, the 3 branches of gov are humming long better than ever. There are no problems.

Here is the opposite end of the spectrum the "'Look at Me' see how smart I am". I just stick my fingers in my ears and close my eyes and call everyone a that sees a problem a "weaponized moron."

History has proven its people that think as you do are the WTF morons. How could you not see a problem here.

Like First Bull Run with the picnic laughing until the first bullet whizzed by their empty heads. Or the French Rev or Russian Revolutions when the first blades or bullets kissed their sleeping still in-denial targets.

Sure people can over react. And the really dumbs one UNDER react.

---

1>If you think that destabilizing the most powerful country in the world would end well for not only its citizens but for almost all of the rest of the world, you are deeply....DEEPLY mistaken.

2> Your analogy is better couched as the fall of the Roman Empire, not the French Revolution. And the fall of the Roman Empire ushered in centuries of middling advancement.

3> You are living in a fantasy...absolute delusional fantasy...that breaking up the United States is a good idea. You have swallowed the lure of propaganda from our enemies.

4>Are there issues? Yup. But still issues that can be addressed.

---

Uh, you like to jump to conclusions. Its what self righteous libs do.

1> NOBODY said "destabilizing the most powerful country in the world would end well for not only its citizens but for almost all of the rest of the world." Duh!!!. Everyone knows it would be a disaster. The question is what is the greater disaster: THIS creeping leftest tyranny or the risk of saving a piece of the founding Republic.
Personally I like the idea of Federalism- If Cali and NY want to destroy themselves cool. Just dont demand that I or Texas do.

2> No I'll stick with the French Rev given I was attacking your arrogant yet ignorant attitude.And No Roman Empire didn't really advance the dial. The Roman Republic did, the Empire not so much. The French Rev is more indicative of the current US situation by FAR.

3> Oh more self righteousness while missing the point. It is the radical left that is pushing the breakup of the US as it exist in its founding Republican form.
And just stop with the stupid accusations of listening to Russian propaganda. ALL of this is being ushered in by abuse of the Executive Branch of our government.

4>And your right the issues can be address assuming we had a fair press and government that followed the laws currently on the books. But they dont.

---

(1). The greatest disaster would be the failure of the American experiment. The evolution of western thought. This will usher in MORE tyranny. Not less. If history is any indication.

(2) No. Its the Roman Empire. And if you can't see why....well....okay.

(3) Funny, most of the time reading about the "national divorce" its coming from the dingbat righties. I will, however, agree that the left is often manipulating the systems to limit what a "democracy" is.

(4) We agree here. The thing is...WE aren't demanding a fair press. This is the real rub. WE don't vote for politicians that uphold the ideals of democracy. WE don't watch or read news that is truly fair. WE are allowing ourselves to be manipulated. Thus why I'm hopeful that WE can figure out how not to be so manipulated (its because we are learning how to exist after the communication revolution of the internet.)

5>Also, I'm not a leftist. Someone that disagrees with your position is not automatically a leftist.

---

1. That experiment is already in trouble because many of its key institutions have forgot what they are there for. Which is to serve and NOT be served. The rise of this huge political class is a sign of a sick system in need of repair.

2. Your Wrong. okay !

3. This is really a joke. In 2016 it was the lefties and Cal exit. Remember them.

4. Cool. Its a start !!!!

5. I go by posting history. You are not far left but center left. I admit I'm a traditionalist which to the tyrannical left makes me an "Enemy of Democracy." BTW that is something the lefty crazies used to say in the French Rev.

It really falls down to this. Assuming you are not a leftist as you claim, the two side of this seem to be those like yourself that think we can reverse the course within the system to restore America how it was founded to be.

Then there is the other side that believes that the system has been irreparably damaged, and the only recourse is the 2nd Amendment.

A 'national divorce' is just a nice way of saying Civil War 2.0 because I don't think it could happen peaceably even if it started out that way. War would be inevitable. The left side of the equation CANNOT leave others alone, they must exert control with force. It's in their DNA,

American Hardwood said:

---

The left side of the equation CANNOT leave others alone, they must exert control with force. It's in their DNA,

---

Exactly. Thus the growing realization that traditional American ideologies cannot coexist with the new leftist/liberal ideology since they are all about control rather than Federalism.

It's either dominate leftism into submission, submit to leftism, or secede. The relative peacefulness of secession is entirely up to the left, which further validates any notion of secession.

American Hardwood said:

---

There are other metrics for the quality of one's life than the ones you identify.

---

Of course there are.

Tex117 said:

---

(1). The greatest disaster would be the failure of the American experiment. The evolution of western thought. This will usher in MORE tyranny. Not less. If history is any indication.

---

I am NOT advocating for a civil war, but who says that the "American Experiment" can only be conducted in ONE North American Nation, as opposed to several of them?

Quote:

---

Also, I'm not a leftist. Someone that disagrees with your position is not automatically a leftist.

---

Yes you are. And a pooyhead, which means about the same thing here. You probably also have poor table manners and personal hygiene. (that was all sarcasm, btw)

American Hardwood said:

---

Still be addressed? That's optimistic. An American breakup will be bad for the world, sure, but so would America sinking into a gigantic Marxist failure. At least with a Civil War there is a chance for redemption. There would be no chance for recovery once the Marxists have taken over completely with the technology and tools available to tyrants today.

---

If there was a civil war and 'redemption' we likely would be lucky if our kids saw it and things returned to anything resembling normalcy. Americans will never allow our country to become a true marxist country. At the very most, there might be policies or actions that some perceive to be like what marxists countries might do and if it goes to far, even democrats would revolt.

The far left is the only ones who tap dance around the idea of communism and most dems think they're idiots, just like we think dems are idiots.

A good example is the tide turning on immigration. Even the Dem voters have had enough of the influx of illegals. Most will never stray too far from the middle and definitely aren't willing to live in a true marxist country. Shouting marxism just makes for good election slogans to get people to vote....just like shouting 'dictatorship'. Absolutely no difference.

ttu_85 said:

---

Tex117 said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

Tex117 said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

Tex117 said:

---

Here comes the pearl-clutching again.

Good grief.

Look, Im the absolute FIRST person to say anyone advocating for a "national divorce" is a weaponized moron, but worrying about some movie is just stupid.

---

Oh yeah, lets sing "All is Well". Times have never been better. The states, the 3 branches of gov are humming long better than ever. There are no problems.

Here is the opposite end of the spectrum the "'Look at Me' see how smart I am". I just stick my fingers in my ears and close my eyes and call everyone a that sees a problem a "weaponized moron."

History has proven its people that think as you do are the WTF morons. How could you not see a problem here.

Like First Bull Run with the picnic laughing until the first bullet whizzed by their empty heads. Or the French Rev or Russian Revolutions when the first blades or bullets kissed their sleeping still in-denial targets.

Sure people can over react. And the really dumbs one UNDER react.

---

1>If you think that destabilizing the most powerful country in the world would end well for not only its citizens but for almost all of the rest of the world, you are deeply....DEEPLY mistaken.

2> Your analogy is better couched as the fall of the Roman Empire, not the French Revolution. And the fall of the Roman Empire ushered in centuries of middling advancement.

3> You are living in a fantasy...absolute delusional fantasy...that breaking up the United States is a good idea. You have swallowed the lure of propaganda from our enemies.

4>Are there issues? Yup. But still issues that can be addressed.

---

Uh, you like to jump to conclusions. Its what self righteous libs do.

1> NOBODY said "destabilizing the most powerful country in the world would end well for not only its citizens but for almost all of the rest of the world." Duh!!!. Everyone knows it would be a disaster. The question is what is the greater disaster: THIS creeping leftest tyranny or the risk of saving a piece of the founding Republic.
Personally I like the idea of Federalism- If Cali and NY want to destroy themselves cool. Just dont demand that I or Texas do.

2> No I'll stick with the French Rev given I was attacking your arrogant yet ignorant attitude.And No Roman Empire didn't really advance the dial. The Roman Republic did, the Empire not so much. The French Rev is more indicative of the current US situation by FAR.

3> Oh more self righteousness while missing the point. It is the radical left that is pushing the breakup of the US as it exist in its founding Republican form.
And just stop with the stupid accusations of listening to Russian propaganda. ALL of this is being ushered in by abuse of the Executive Branch of our government.

4>And your right the issues can be address assuming we had a fair press and government that followed the laws currently on the books. But they dont.

---

(1). The greatest disaster would be the failure of the American experiment. The evolution of western thought. This will usher in MORE tyranny. Not less. If history is any indication.

(2) No. Its the Roman Empire. And if you can't see why....well....okay.

(3) Funny, most of the time reading about the "national divorce" its coming from the dingbat righties. I will, however, agree that the left is often manipulating the systems to limit what a "democracy" is.

(4) We agree here. The thing is...WE aren't demanding a fair press. This is the real rub. WE don't vote for politicians that uphold the ideals of democracy. WE don't watch or read news that is truly fair. WE are allowing ourselves to be manipulated. Thus why I'm hopeful that WE can figure out how not to be so manipulated (its because we are learning how to exist after the communication revolution of the internet.)

5>Also, I'm not a leftist. Someone that disagrees with your position is not automatically a leftist.

---

1. That experiment is already in trouble because many of its key institutions have forgot what they are there for. Which is to serve and NOT be served. The rise of this huge political class is a sign of a sick system in need of repair.

2. Your Wrong. okay !

3. This is really a joke. In 2016 it was the lefties and Cal exit. Remember them.

4. Cool. Its a start !!!!

5. I go by posting history. You are not far left but center left. I admit I'm a traditionalist which to the tyrannical left makes me an "Enemy of Democracy." BTW that is something the lefty crazies used to say in the French Rev.

---

(1) I don't disagree. But its up to US to elect politicians that will address this.

(2) I mean, one could write a doctoral thesis on this point. But Roman Empire is going to be better. It was THE super power that controlled the western world. France, didn't and never has. So that right there makes it not the same with respect to HOW a fall might look.

(3) Ha, yes. And I remember back in 2008 when Obama was elected all the righties were leaving, And the lefties before that with Gore in 2000, and with Clinton in the 90s. Its the same old schtick. Not many do...why? because where the eff are they going to go?

(4) Well, my position used to be more center right, but all that got moved over (in both directions). If we were taking a litmus test, I don't think either party would claim me at this point (and I don't claim either of them). The thing is, you aren't an enemy of democracy (could be an enemy of the united states calling for civil war, but lets leave that alone for now). We are being completely failed by our "leaders" and our fellow citizens by electing politicians that do not actually support the systems in place that allowed this country to prosper.

Really, I keep going back to this, we are being so heavily manipulated, its hard to make heads or tails out of anything anymore.

Antoninus said:

---

Tex117 said:

---

(1). The greatest disaster would be the failure of the American experiment. The evolution of western thought. This will usher in MORE tyranny. Not less. If history is any indication.

---

I am NOT advocating for a civil war, but who says that the "American Experiment" can only be conducted in ONE North American Nation, as opposed to several of them?

Quote:

---

Also, I'm not a leftist. Someone that disagrees with your position is not automatically a leftist.

---

Yes you are. And a pooyhead, which means about the same thing here. You probably also have poor table manners and personal hygiene. (that was all sarcasm, btw)

---

Say what you want, but do NOT insult my table manners, sir! They are in fact impeccable.

Well, hard to say it succeeded when the THE nation that started the whole shebang (and really it was a throughline of the evolution of western thought going all the way back to the Greeks) breaks apart.

BluHorseShu said:

---

American Hardwood said:

---

Still be addressed? That's optimistic. An American breakup will be bad for the world, sure, but so would America sinking into a gigantic Marxist failure. At least with a Civil War there is a chance for redemption. There would be no chance for recovery once the Marxists have taken over completely with the technology and tools available to tyrants today.

---

If there was a civil war and 'redemption' we likely would be lucky if our kids saw it and things returned to anything resembling normalcy. Americans will never allow our country to become a true marxist country. At the very most, there might be policies or actions that some perceive to be like what marxists countries might do and if it goes to far, even democrats would revolt.

The far left is the only ones who tap dance around the idea of communism and most dems think they're idiots, just like we think dems are idiots.

A good example is the tide turning on immigration. Even the Dem voters have had enough of the influx of illegals. Most will never stray too far from the middle and definitely aren't willing to live in a true marxist country. Shouting marxism just makes for good election slogans to get people to vote....just like shouting 'dictatorship'. Absolutely no difference.

---

Yeah, I'm not sure I'm buying your argument here. To your unsubstantiated example, in recent polls Dems haven't really changed a lot on their opinions on immigration issues.

Quote:

---

Currently, 57% of Republicans, up from 37% in January, say immigration is the top problem. Independents show a modest uptick, from 16% in January to 22% now, while there has been no meaningful change among Democrats (9% in January and 10% in February).

---

Tex117 said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

Tex117 said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

Tex117 said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

Tex117 said:

---

Here comes the pearl-clutching again.

Good grief.

Look, Im the absolute FIRST person to say anyone advocating for a "national divorce" is a weaponized moron, but worrying about some movie is just stupid.

---

Oh yeah, lets sing "All is Well". Times have never been better. The states, the 3 branches of gov are humming long better than ever. There are no problems.

Here is the opposite end of the spectrum the "'Look at Me' see how smart I am". I just stick my fingers in my ears and close my eyes and call everyone a that sees a problem a "weaponized moron."

History has proven its people that think as you do are the WTF morons. How could you not see a problem here.

Like First Bull Run with the picnic laughing until the first bullet whizzed by their empty heads. Or the French Rev or Russian Revolutions when the first blades or bullets kissed their sleeping still in-denial targets.

Sure people can over react. And the really dumbs one UNDER react.

---

1>If you think that destabilizing the most powerful country in the world would end well for not only its citizens but for almost all of the rest of the world, you are deeply....DEEPLY mistaken.

2> Your analogy is better couched as the fall of the Roman Empire, not the French Revolution. And the fall of the Roman Empire ushered in centuries of middling advancement.

3> You are living in a fantasy...absolute delusional fantasy...that breaking up the United States is a good idea. You have swallowed the lure of propaganda from our enemies.

4>Are there issues? Yup. But still issues that can be addressed.

---

Uh, you like to jump to conclusions. Its what self righteous libs do.

1> NOBODY said "destabilizing the most powerful country in the world would end well for not only its citizens but for almost all of the rest of the world." Duh!!!. Everyone knows it would be a disaster. The question is what is the greater disaster: THIS creeping leftest tyranny or the risk of saving a piece of the founding Republic.
Personally I like the idea of Federalism- If Cali and NY want to destroy themselves cool. Just dont demand that I or Texas do.

2> No I'll stick with the French Rev given I was attacking your arrogant yet ignorant attitude.And No Roman Empire didn't really advance the dial. The Roman Republic did, the Empire not so much. The French Rev is more indicative of the current US situation by FAR.

3> Oh more self righteousness while missing the point. It is the radical left that is pushing the breakup of the US as it exist in its founding Republican form.
And just stop with the stupid accusations of listening to Russian propaganda. ALL of this is being ushered in by abuse of the Executive Branch of our government.

4>And your right the issues can be address assuming we had a fair press and government that followed the laws currently on the books. But they dont.

---

(1). The greatest disaster would be the failure of the American experiment. The evolution of western thought. This will usher in MORE tyranny. Not less. If history is any indication.

(2) No. Its the Roman Empire. And if you can't see why....well....okay.

(3) Funny, most of the time reading about the "national divorce" its coming from the dingbat righties. I will, however, agree that the left is often manipulating the systems to limit what a "democracy" is.

(4) We agree here. The thing is...WE aren't demanding a fair press. This is the real rub. WE don't vote for politicians that uphold the ideals of democracy. WE don't watch or read news that is truly fair. WE are allowing ourselves to be manipulated. Thus why I'm hopeful that WE can figure out how not to be so manipulated (its because we are learning how to exist after the communication revolution of the internet.)

5>Also, I'm not a leftist. Someone that disagrees with your position is not automatically a leftist.

---

1. That experiment is already in trouble because many of its key institutions have forgot what they are there for. Which is to serve and NOT be served. The rise of this huge political class is a sign of a sick system in need of repair.

2. Your Wrong. okay !

3. This is really a joke. In 2016 it was the lefties and Cal exit. Remember them.

4. Cool. Its a start !!!!

5. I go by posting history. You are not far left but center left. I admit I'm a traditionalist which to the tyrannical left makes me an "Enemy of Democracy." BTW that is something the lefty crazies used to say in the French Rev.

---

(1) I don't disagree. But its up to US to elect politicians that will address this.

(2) I mean, one could write a doctoral thesis on this point. But Roman Empire is going to be better. It was THE super power that controlled the western world. France, didn't and never has. So that right there makes it not the same with respect to HOW a fall might look.

(3) Ha, yes. And I remember back in 2008 when Obama was elected all the righties were leaving, And the lefties before that with Gore in 2000, and with Clinton in the 90s. Its the same old schtick. Not many do...why? because where the eff are they going to go?

(4) Well, my position used to be more center right, but all that got moved over (in both directions). If we were taking a litmus test, I don't think either party would claim me at this point (and I don't claim either of them). The thing is, you aren't an enemy of democracy (could be an enemy of the united states calling for civil war, but lets leave that alone for now). We are being completely failed by our "leaders" and our fellow citizens by electing politicians that do not actually support the systems in place that allowed this country to prosper.

Really, I keep going back to this, we are being so heavily manipulated, its hard to make heads or tails out of anything anymore.

---

THIS in bold. This fact right here is reason enough to be very very mistrustful of the political climate today.
If we only had the truth that we could all trust, we could make much better decisions without fear.

This evolved into a good discussion.

ttu_85 said:

---

Tex117 said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

Tex117 said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

Tex117 said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

Tex117 said:

---

Here comes the pearl-clutching again.

Good grief.

Look, Im the absolute FIRST person to say anyone advocating for a "national divorce" is a weaponized moron, but worrying about some movie is just stupid.

---

Oh yeah, lets sing "All is Well". Times have never been better. The states, the 3 branches of gov are humming long better than ever. There are no problems.

Here is the opposite end of the spectrum the "'Look at Me' see how smart I am". I just stick my fingers in my ears and close my eyes and call everyone a that sees a problem a "weaponized moron."

History has proven its people that think as you do are the WTF morons. How could you not see a problem here.

Like First Bull Run with the picnic laughing until the first bullet whizzed by their empty heads. Or the French Rev or Russian Revolutions when the first blades or bullets kissed their sleeping still in-denial targets.

Sure people can over react. And the really dumbs one UNDER react.

---

1>If you think that destabilizing the most powerful country in the world would end well for not only its citizens but for almost all of the rest of the world, you are deeply....DEEPLY mistaken.

2> Your analogy is better couched as the fall of the Roman Empire, not the French Revolution. And the fall of the Roman Empire ushered in centuries of middling advancement.

3> You are living in a fantasy...absolute delusional fantasy...that breaking up the United States is a good idea. You have swallowed the lure of propaganda from our enemies.

4>Are there issues? Yup. But still issues that can be addressed.

---

Uh, you like to jump to conclusions. Its what self righteous libs do.

1> NOBODY said "destabilizing the most powerful country in the world would end well for not only its citizens but for almost all of the rest of the world." Duh!!!. Everyone knows it would be a disaster. The question is what is the greater disaster: THIS creeping leftest tyranny or the risk of saving a piece of the founding Republic.
Personally I like the idea of Federalism- If Cali and NY want to destroy themselves cool. Just dont demand that I or Texas do.

2> No I'll stick with the French Rev given I was attacking your arrogant yet ignorant attitude.And No Roman Empire didn't really advance the dial. The Roman Republic did, the Empire not so much. The French Rev is more indicative of the current US situation by FAR.

3> Oh more self righteousness while missing the point. It is the radical left that is pushing the breakup of the US as it exist in its founding Republican form.
And just stop with the stupid accusations of listening to Russian propaganda. ALL of this is being ushered in by abuse of the Executive Branch of our government.

4>And your right the issues can be address assuming we had a fair press and government that followed the laws currently on the books. But they dont.

---

(1). The greatest disaster would be the failure of the American experiment. The evolution of western thought. This will usher in MORE tyranny. Not less. If history is any indication.

(2) No. Its the Roman Empire. And if you can't see why....well....okay.

(3) Funny, most of the time reading about the "national divorce" its coming from the dingbat righties. I will, however, agree that the left is often manipulating the systems to limit what a "democracy" is.

(4) We agree here. The thing is...WE aren't demanding a fair press. This is the real rub. WE don't vote for politicians that uphold the ideals of democracy. WE don't watch or read news that is truly fair. WE are allowing ourselves to be manipulated. Thus why I'm hopeful that WE can figure out how not to be so manipulated (its because we are learning how to exist after the communication revolution of the internet.)

5>Also, I'm not a leftist. Someone that disagrees with your position is not automatically a leftist.

---

1. That experiment is already in trouble because many of its key institutions have forgot what they are there for. Which is to serve and NOT be served. The rise of this huge political class is a sign of a sick system in need of repair.

2. Your Wrong. okay !

3. This is really a joke. In 2016 it was the lefties and Cal exit. Remember them.

4. Cool. Its a start !!!!

5. I go by posting history. You are not far left but center left. I admit I'm a traditionalist which to the tyrannical left makes me an "Enemy of Democracy." BTW that is something the lefty crazies used to say in the French Rev.

---

(1) I don't disagree. But its up to US to elect politicians that will address this.

(2) I mean, one could write a doctoral thesis on this point. But Roman Empire is going to be better. It was THE super power that controlled the western world. France, didn't and never has. So that right there makes it not the same with respect to HOW a fall might look.

(3) Ha, yes. And I remember back in 2008 when Obama was elected all the righties were leaving, And the lefties before that with Gore in 2000, and with Clinton in the 90s. Its the same old schtick. Not many do...why? because where the eff are they going to go?

(4) Well, my position used to be more center right, but all that got moved over (in both directions). If we were taking a litmus test, I don't think either party would claim me at this point (and I don't claim either of them). The thing is, you aren't an enemy of democracy (could be an enemy of the united states calling for civil war, but lets leave that alone for now). We are being completely failed by our "leaders" and our fellow citizens by electing politicians that do not actually support the systems in place that allowed this country to prosper.

Really, I keep going back to this, we are being so heavily manipulated, its hard to make heads or tails out of anything anymore.

---

THIS in bold. This fact right here is reason enough to be very very mistrustful of the political climate today.
If we only had the truth that we could all trust, we could make much better decisions without fear.

This evolved into a good discussion.

---

I can't agree with you more. I just feel like we are effing guessing nowadays. Can't trust anything. Just going off of feelings. (Hence why Im quick to jump on the "national divorce" thing....I cant trust anything anyone tells me about any of this sheet....so I default to not breaking things.)

How we can get back to some kind of universal set of facts we can even somewhat agree on...damn..I don't know. Has to do with tech/communication/internet, obviously...But if we are to fix anything in this country...it starts there.

BassCowboy33 said:

---

Tumble Weed said:

---

Sea Speed said:

---

Journalism today is literally just copy pasting other peoples comments and calling it news. The quotes in the OP are proof of that.

---

Amazing that they will quote reddit users. I am seeing this more and more in mainstream news. Seriously, it could be some random 13 year old. They probably make the post on the site and then quote it.
Breaking news!
MSNBC just reported that seaspeed on texags thinks that journalism is dead. Several other people starred the post.

---

To be fair, the world of social media means that, more often than not, journalists are finding out info at the same time as the general public. It's the world of live-streaming news as it's happening, especially breaking. Depending on the story, part of newscasts become aggregation, also depending on station philosophy.

Ironically, the rise of social media has meant the devaluation of journalism. There are no longer gatekeepers or filters. Everything is just there for anybody. A complete smorgasbord of information, a huge chunk of it incorrect.

Gone are the days of of afternoon editions, fact checking, and learning what happened today, tomorrow. On the flip side, it's also created a precipitous rise in bad information, because the line between citizen, journalist, and rabble rouser isn't always clear (and the definitions are malleable based on if you agree with that report or not). I mean, most people on this site don't know the difference in news and an op-ed.

---

Lets be real, there was not a lot of 'fact checking' going on 20-40 years ago either.