Urban Ag said:

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We throw out all the excuses for why people are not having kids. Porn addiction, STD's, delaying trying, technology, and or course they big one always cited, they can't afford them.

The three primary reasons though are very simple.

1. Young people are having less sex.

2. Young people are waiting longer to get married, if they get married at all

3. They simply don't want to have kids (this is the single biggest factor)

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Urban Ag said:

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We throw out all the excuses for why people are not having kids. Porn addiction, STD's, delaying trying, infertility, technology, and of course they big one always cited, they can't afford them.

The three primary reasons though are very simple.

1. Young people are having less sex.

2. Young people are waiting longer to get married, if they get married at all

3. They simply don't want to have kids (this is the single biggest factor)

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these are all reasons but there are also some big picture trends.

Generations ago, it made practical sense to have large families. Bigger families meant more labor force which was especially beneficial in agricultural societies. Since then, we've moved away from that and become more urbanized. It now makes less economic sense to have children.

Paradoxically, birth rates are lower among wealthier and more educated people. The people who can afford kids less tend to have more of them, oftentimes as single parents.

South Korea (YIKES)


China (Bad and likely worse than what's being reported)



Mexico (much healthier)

barbacoa taco said:

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Urban Ag said:

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We throw out all the excuses for why people are not having kids. Porn addiction, STD's, delaying trying, infertility, technology, and of course they big one always cited, they can't afford them.

The three primary reasons though are very simple.

1. Young people are having less sex.

2. Young people are waiting longer to get married, if they get married at all

3. They simply don't want to have kids (this is the single biggest factor)

---

these are all reasons but there are also some big picture trends.

Generations ago, it made practical sense to have large families. Bigger families meant more labor force which was especially beneficial in agricultural societies. Since then, we've moved away from that and become more urbanized. It now makes less economic sense to have children.

Paradoxically, birth rates are lower among wealthier and more educated people. The people who can afford kids less tend to have more of them, oftentimes as single parents.

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Here is another major reason, child mortality rates have plummeted. It used to be you had to have 2 children on average just to have 1 survive past 5 years old. This forced a lot more births just to have adult children. This one of the great societal advances of modern history.

barbacoa taco said:

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another reminder of how hard life was back then. we don't know how good we have it in the present.

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Amen. We have become so spoiled yet many think these are worst times of all. I can't imagine the heartbreak of having to bury a child. One set of my great grandparents buried 5.

Can't force people to mate and the incentive to pro-create is not in the mix. Young people are basically saying f-that.

RebelE Infantry said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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Isn't Korea in the same boat? Both countries that have traditionally been super masculine, up until the last generation or two.

The most high-tech advanced countries are pretty much all experiencing this, while the poorest third world countries are not. Hmmmm...makes you think...

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Yes, Korea is essentially a dead nation walking.


If I'm not mistaken, I think even those third world countries are showing declining TFRs.

IMO this is a spiritual affliction.

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It's an urban and technologically driven issue because it crosses all races, cultures, and religions. That is, it's likely this is hitting humanity at a basic evolutionary level. The mouse experiment where they provided a population with unlimited food that has been repeated over and over likely proves this. In each case the mouse population went extinct as the mice stopped reproducing entirely.

El Gallo Blanco said:

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Rocag said:

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But you're not the one that gets to decide for other people whether they think they can afford to have more kids. I have a pretty good engineering job and would probably be solidly considered a part of the middle class. My wife and I have two kids. Could we have afforded a third or a fourth? Yeah, probably. But two additional kids would have brought lots of added expenses with it and taken away time we would have otherwise spent with each other or the kids we already have. In the end, we decided against more kids.

I'd imagine lots of couples are making similar decisions.

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I know, i just wish net drains on society weren't outbreeding producers. I am glad that conservative Christians are outbreeding white liberals though. That's the only silver lining in our drop in birth rates.

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Yep. I remember a doctor I used to work with told me my family should have 4-5 kids.

Reminds me of Idiocracy.

El Gallo Blanco said:

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AtticusMatlock said:

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It has to do with the industrialization cycle.

People have fewer kids when they move to cities where there is less space and no need for kids to work the farm. There's a correlation between when countries industrialize and their population patterns.

South Korea in particular industrialized very rapidly and now more than a third of their population lives in the Seoul metro area. People moving into the cities just stopped having kids due to cost and space.

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This is the one silver lining when it comes to the US. Higher concentration of useless flaming white liberals in the major metro areas. Normal every day Christian conservatives who don't want gay cartoon p0rn books in childrens school libraries are outbreeding vile leftists that DO want gay cartoon p0rn books in childrens school libraries significantly.

White liberals are hellbent on finding any and every way to end their bloodlines and it's beautiful.

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The US white and socially conservative Christian population has a resistance to this that is unique globally. In every other population once the decline began it never stopped. This is not the case in the US. This group has increased and continues to increase.

Orthodox Jews are the same as well.

Rapier108 said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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AtticusMatlock said:

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It has to do with the industrialization cycle.

People have fewer kids when they move to cities where there is less space and no need for kids to work the farm. There's a correlation between when countries industrialize and their population patterns.

South Korea in particular industrialized very rapidly and now more than a third of their population lives in the Seoul metro area. People moving into the cities just stopped having kids due to cost and space.

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This is the one silver lining when it comes to the US. Higher concentration of useless flaming white liberals in the major metro areas. Normal every day Christian conservatives who don't want gay cartoon p0rn books in childrens school libraries are outbreeding vile leftists that DO want gay cartoon p0rn books in childrens school libraries significantly.

White liberals are hellbent on finding any and every way to end their bloodlines and it's beautiful.

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Which is why they're importing millions of third world illegals.

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And why Republicans or business owners talk tough but do little on the issue.

RebelE Infantry said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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Buck Turgidson said:

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We are living in the age of the grass eaters.

Somehow this all seems too conveniently aligned with the depopulation goals of the uber rich globalist types. Its almost like everything in our testosterone-destroying diets (and other products like soaps and shampoo), combined with brainwashing by academia and mainstream media, and artificial LGBT hysteria has been intentionally created to turn the global population into docile, non-breeding cattle.

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I am 100% convinced that this, and plastics in everything, are a genuine contributor. I never thought, as someone on the far right, that I would end up on a simple organic meat and veggies diet, and using natural hippie bar soaps and deodorant, but here we are. It's probably not doing anything, but way too many chemicals in the brand name stuff.

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There is a startling overlap between the actual far right and the crunchy hippie moms.

This was a shock to me as well.

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There is functionally no difference between some of the all natural posts on Twitter by these groups beyond the level of meat consumed and eaten. That's basically the only way you can tell who is and is not a hippie lol.

We wanted to have two, but ended up very lucky just to have our one.

Having said that, I'm not sure how we could afford two right now.

Nanomachines son said:

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RebelE Infantry said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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Isn't Korea in the same boat? Both countries that have traditionally been super masculine, up until the last generation or two.

The most high-tech advanced countries are pretty much all experiencing this, while the poorest third world countries are not. Hmmmm...makes you think...

---

Yes, Korea is essentially a dead nation walking.


If I'm not mistaken, I think even those third world countries are showing declining TFRs.

IMO this is a spiritual affliction.

---

It's an urban and technologically driven issue because it crosses all races, cultures, and religions. That is, it's likely this is hitting humanity at a basic evolutionary level. The mouse experiment where they provided a population with unlimited food that has been repeated over and over likely proves this. In each case the mouse population went extinct as the mice stopped reproducing entirely.

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Yep. This is about the fact people just don't want kids. It cramps their lifestyle. Why wait til you're in your 60s to use the money you've saved and free time to go travel. Just don't have kids and you can go wherever the hell you want to go, whenever you want to go. And you'll have the money to travel in style.

Plus you want a good career, right? That's hard to do an be a good parent. I think a lot of people remember their parents never being there for them as children and decided they don't want to be that kind of parent, so instead of trying to scale back at work, they scale back on kids.

The conservative Christian denominations that still teach children are a blessing and we need to be open to life are the ones staying above the replacement rate. "Economics" is not the primary driver. Worldview is

We have a 12, 10 and 5 year old... because my wife can't keep her legs closed. We only wanted 2 kids, never thought we would have 3. We are not rich. I sometimes get sad when I see a baby, knowing that we are past that point and will never go back. If you don't have kids you are missing out. It sucks. A lot. But then there are times it is awesome. Like when you rip a silent one and they all blame each other because they are too scared to blame you. Priceless.

Quote:

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Like when you rip a silent one and they all blame each other because they are too scared to blame you.

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Too scared to blame you? WTF?!

My wife and daughter blame me first no matter who rips it, and let me tell you, my daughter got mine and my grandads guts, cause from the her first poop until now, she can grind out some stank like a grown ass man.

The Banned said:

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Nanomachines son said:

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RebelE Infantry said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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Isn't Korea in the same boat? Both countries that have traditionally been super masculine, up until the last generation or two.

The most high-tech advanced countries are pretty much all experiencing this, while the poorest third world countries are not. Hmmmm...makes you think...

---

Yes, Korea is essentially a dead nation walking.


If I'm not mistaken, I think even those third world countries are showing declining TFRs.

IMO this is a spiritual affliction.

---

It's an urban and technologically driven issue because it crosses all races, cultures, and religions. That is, it's likely this is hitting humanity at a basic evolutionary level. The mouse experiment where they provided a population with unlimited food that has been repeated over and over likely proves this. In each case the mouse population went extinct as the mice stopped reproducing entirely.

---

Yep. This is about the fact people just don't want kids. It cramps their lifestyle. Why wait til you're in your 60s to use the money you've saved and free time to go travel. Just don't have kids and you can go wherever the hell you want to go, whenever you want to go. And you'll have the money to travel in style.

Plus you want a good career, right? That's hard to do an be a good parent. I think a lot of people remember their parents never being there for them as children and decided they don't want to be that kind of parent, so instead of trying to scale back at work, they scale back on kids.

The conservative Christian denominations that still teach children are a blessing and we need to be open to life are the ones staying above the replacement rate. "Economics" is not the primary driver. Worldview is

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Yep. The interesting part about your last point is that if that is the only group that continues to reproduce is that in the near future we may very quickly move to a much more religious society very quickly because that will be the only group reproducing. Everyone else will die off. This will be the only group with resistance to the corrosive aspects of urbanization and technology. People don't want to admit it but we're absolutely at an evolutionary inflection point right now.

Kansas Kid said:

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Phatbob said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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China is potentially even worse than Japan. There birth rate dropped below 1 per woman of birthing age over their lifetime. 2.2 needed for stable population.

China also had a drop in population last year for the first time in modern history not tied to war.

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China is a special case due to the 1 child policy. It's not in place anymore, but the unintended consequences of the mass killing of baby girls has led to a complete inability for them to sustain their population numbers over a single generation.

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No doubt the one child policy was a disaster. They have a shortage of women as you mention and those women were raised to be independent and successful by their parents because the parents are counting on the child to take care of them in old age. As a result, they don't want to be stay at home moms so they don't have kids even if they get married.

China is going to end up as a weak economic country as they have lost the foreign direct investment, their demographics suck, they have a problem with massive corruption and their economy was built on global exports and real estate both of which have dropped materially for them. Xi is bringing back the failed policies of the past to add to their upcoming misery.

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Incidentally, due to the lack of females available for marriage in China, females can be very particular in choosing a suitable male partner. And, a Chinese male's family will invest their entire life savings, primarily into real estate, to help their son's chances of finding a Chinese female to be his wife. This trend has played a large part in the real estate fiasco we see unfolding in China (Evergrande and Country Garden).

There are lots of people of Millennial age and younger who just don't want to have kids. They want to use their time and money for their own pursuits and individual experiences vs. raising kids. This is largely a result of many cultures having advanced to such a tech and consumer based society. People make plenty of money and have myriad options when it comes to how they live their lives. They don't feel compelled to have kids and simply don't want to.

Japan has two choices: the expensive route of technology (automation, robots and even maybe legalizing artificial womb technology) or the cheap route of importing the 3rd world

Seeing how that choice is going everywhere else, hope Japan tries the tech route

I blame anime tiddies.

Maroon Dawn said:

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Japan has two choices: the expensive route of technology (automation, robots and even maybe legalizing artificial womb technology) or the cheap route of importing the 3rd world

Seeing how that choice is going everywhere else, hope Japan tries the tech route

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The majority of Asian cultures, including the Japanese, have never accepted foreigners. It would be an absolute last resort that I am still not sure even in that case they would do it.

Kansas Kid said:

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Maroon Dawn said:

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Japan has two choices: the expensive route of technology (automation, robots and even maybe legalizing artificial womb technology) or the cheap route of importing the 3rd world

Seeing how that choice is going everywhere else, hope Japan tries the tech route

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The majority of Asian cultures, including the Japanese, have never accepted foreigners. It would be an absolute last resort that I am still not sure even in that case they would do it.

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Wonder if they will appeal to ethnic Japanese who are citizens of other countries? Financial incentives to return to the homeland?

AtticusMatlock said:

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Buck Turgidson said:

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We are living in the age of the grass eaters.

Somehow this all seems too conveniently aligned with the depopulation goals of the uber rich globalist types. Its almost like everything in our testosterone-destroying diets (and other products like soaps and shampoo), combined with brainwashing by academia and mainstream media, and artificial LGBT hysteria has been intentionally created to turn the global population into docile, non-breeding cattle.

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Or...it just isn't financially or socially practical for the average person to have 3+ kids anymore.

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I resisted having kids until it was almost too late, then I had three. I've been on both sides of that debate personally and I will say my old mentality was mostly based on selfish ideas that proved to be false. Many young people think having more/nicer stuff will make them happier than having kids. That is just flat out wrong for most people who aren't desperately poor. Most of that "nicer stuff" that I bought in my 20's and 30's is gone now anyway, but my kids bring a continual joy to my life that will last as long as I'm still alive.

Maroon Dawn said:

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Japan has two choices: the expensive route of technology (automation, robots and even maybe legalizing artificial womb technology) or the cheap route of importing the 3rd world

Seeing how that choice is going everywhere else, hope Japan tries the tech route

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Japan should start allowing whites from America to come over and fast track citizenship. As we fast track to Marxism in this country, many are looking for an out.

Didn't read all the posts because depopulation isn't in my top 1,000 things I worry about. But, if someone pointed out part of the reason for fewer kids being a testosterone problem, I would be willing to offer my services. I will be that big old hereford bull, just a-sweatin' and a-pantin, cause my work is never done.

AtticusMatlock said:

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Look at what people are spending their incomes on. Finances are not just about what is coming in, it's about what is going out.

Student loan debt, car notes, housing, health insurance, Uber Eats avocado toast delivery fees. All more expensive.

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You have to make sacrifices. Maybe instead of new cars you drive old cars, maybe instead of upgrading to a newer house, the kids share bedrooms in the old house.

People are selfish and have chosen other things. We homeschooled three kids, which meant only one income, we made sacrifices to avoid public schools. Its about what you value.

Nanomachines son said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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AtticusMatlock said:

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It has to do with the industrialization cycle.

People have fewer kids when they move to cities where there is less space and no need for kids to work the farm. There's a correlation between when countries industrialize and their population patterns.

South Korea in particular industrialized very rapidly and now more than a third of their population lives in the Seoul metro area. People moving into the cities just stopped having kids due to cost and space.

---

This is the one silver lining when it comes to the US. Higher concentration of useless flaming white liberals in the major metro areas. Normal every day Christian conservatives who don't want gay cartoon p0rn books in childrens school libraries are outbreeding vile leftists that DO want gay cartoon p0rn books in childrens school libraries significantly.

White liberals are hellbent on finding any and every way to end their bloodlines and it's beautiful.

---

The US white and socially conservative Christian population has a resistance to this that is unique globally. In every other population once the decline began it never stopped. This is not the case in the US. This group has increased and continues to increase.

Orthodox Jews are the same as well.

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It's a problem for Israel that the Orthodox Jews and devout Muslims are outbreeding the secular folks that drive the economy and serve in the military.

https://unherd.com/2021/05/israels-population-time-bomb/

Quote:

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. . . For instance, Arab women in Jordan bear 2.69 children, while those in Palestine have 3.49; Jewish women in Israel average 3.17 children each, compared to 1.5 in the US and Britain.
. . .
In the immortal words of the PLO's Yasser Arafat, "the womb of the Arab woman is my strongest weapon".
. . .
Secular Jews and those from moderate branches have historically made up Israel's elite, but are losing population share due to their relatively low fertility. Instead, the Jewish fertility rise is largely due to the growth in highly religious Jews, especially the Haredim, or ultra-Orthodox. The latter have doubled their share of the adult Jewish population in Israel since 2000, and are extremely young, forming a third of Jewish first-graders up from a few percentage points in 1960.
. . .
Within Israel, this demographic shift is already starting to cause tensions. Ultra-Orthodox Jewish men generally avoid full-time jobs and the military, and are instead encouraged to study the Torah at Yeshivas to fulfil the ideal of a "scholar society". The Israeli Central Bank, as a result, fears that their growth will ultimately bankrupt the Israeli state.
. . .
But while ultra-Orthodox Jews rear between 6 and 7 children, modern Orthodox women have 3 or 4 higher than the secular Jews, who have 2.2. This dynamic is having a number of consequences. First, the relatively poor ultra-Orthodox population is spilling out from concentrated areas such as Meah Shearim, near Jerusalem.
. . .
Meanwhile, the still-healthy Palestinian fertility rate has resulted in a young and fast-growing population in the West Bank, where the median age is 22, and Gaza, where it is just 18. Indeed, Gaza is the 13th fastest growing political unit in the world, with a population density of over 5,000 people per square kilometre.
. . .
How will this all end? In the long run, it seems possible that the ultra-Orthodox could bankrupt Israel, while Palestine may have to send its excess population to work abroad if Arab countries in the Persian Gulf once again become willing to accept large numbers of Palestinians.
. . .

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The Banned said:

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Rocag said:

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But you're not the one that gets to decide for other people whether they think they can afford to have more kids. I have a pretty good engineering job and would probably be solidly considered a part of the middle class. My wife and I have two kids. Could we have afforded a third or a fourth? Yeah, probably. But two additional kids would have brought lots of added expenses with it and taken away time we would have otherwise spent with each other or the kids we already have. In the end, we decided against more kids.

I'd imagine lots of couples are making similar decisions.

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THIS!! This is the primary driver. In general, people prefer more vacations, more space, nicer vehicles, more me time, and to focus their resources on giving one or two kids everything they can versus having more kids that may cramp their lifestyle a bit. Hard to do travel ball for everyone with 5 kids.

We were going to stop at 3. The 4th came along and showed us how stupid of a decision that would have been. Completely opened our eyes to what we would have said no to. A new child, completely unique, adding even more love to our home. Which led to number 5.

End of the day it's a heart issue. People crave comfort and kids are are anything but comfortable. It totally changes your day today as well as your future plans. And Rocag, I'm not judging you at all and hope it doesn't come across that way. It's just something I'm very passionate are about since converting to my new way of thinking. My financial and day to day comfort seemed more important than "another baby". But once that new life showed up I realized how wrong I was.

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This is my biggest regret in life. My wife and I got married young (I was 22, she was 20). We had a great time on our own for a long time, and put off having kids. We finally decided to start trying in our mid-30s. First pregnancy ended in miscarriage at about 6 weeks. The second pregnancy resulted in our daughter being born 10 weeks early due to my wife's preeclampsia. I was 36, she was 34 (if the girl had come on her due date, she and my wife would have had birthdays two days apart).

Being parents was a much more amazing experience than we could have ever imagined (kinda like everyone had told us), so after a year we decided to try again. We went to my wife's lady-doctor, who told us my wife would have a 50/50 shot at surviving another pregnancy. Her history of miscarriage and preeclampsia combined with her age (she would have been 37 by the time another baby came along) were just too big of a risk.

Our daughter is now 8 years old, and is an incredible little girl. I wish we had started much sooner, and had a couple more.

AtticusMatlock said:

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Buck Turgidson said:

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We are living in the age of the grass eaters.

Somehow this all seems too conveniently aligned with the depopulation goals of the uber rich globalist types. Its almost like everything in our testosterone-destroying diets (and other products like soaps and shampoo), combined with brainwashing by academia and mainstream media, and artificial LGBT hysteria has been intentionally created to turn the global population into docile, non-breeding cattle.

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Or...it just isn't financially or socially practical for the average person to have 3+ kids anymore.

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There are plenty of people on this site with 3+ kids. It can be done.

El Gallo Blanco said:

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LostInLA07 said:

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Now you know why the left wants a flood of illegal immigrants.

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Yep. But they better ditch the hyper woke LGBTQ gender bullsh**. Latinos and Muslims and Chinese hate that.

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Maybe but people will also fall in line for a check.

We had three later in life, and I sometimes wish we had one or two more. My three are all teenagers now and will be gone to college in a few years. When we look at their photos from their younger years, we really miss having little ones around.

Logos Stick said:

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But Japan is in serious trouble "Over two people died for every baby born in 2023":

Japan will disappear if something doesn’t change https://t.co/1nmYIkYWD9

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) February 29, 2024

https://notthebee.com/article/japans-birth-rate-hit-a-record-low-last-year-less-than-half-as-many-people-were-born-as-people-who-died

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Japan is a small island with a large population. If the US had Japans population density, we'd have 3.2 billion people living here. Japan could use some population decline.

Why? They seemed to have done quite nicely with their population size post WW2. They are the world's 3rd largest economy even now!

Yep. And this idea of "just wait" is so ubiquitous in society that I don't blame anyone for buying in. I did to a degree. It's not until you can see for yourself that it's all a crock of lies that you start to question the materialist model we've been given.