Major Corps Changes - Political BS

89,507 Views | 842 Replies | Last: 8 mo ago by Tex100
ELREY
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tree91 said:

tiko89 said:


"This is all my fault. My apologies to everyone on this board. Clearly, I didn't crap out this commandant enough when we were in the Corps."

tree91, I heard that Michaelis was a frog into your outfit? I'm wondering if that colors his experience and thoughts on the fish year....
I made a lighthearted comment that was, not surprisingly, taken too literally on F16. I hope I crapped him out at some point, but I don't remember him. He was not in my outfit.
That is actually a great question. The commandant is Class of 93. Does anyone here actually remember him? I have yet to meet anyone that knew him as a cadet and our time overlapped by 1 year.

If someone knew him please post and tell us about him as a Cadet? I heard he was a Frog in E-1. Which helps frame this decision a bit for me. The guy wasn't a fish and he doesn't understand how important that experience actually is to a Cadet.
freedomfighter11
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What a stupid proposition. All current cadets should march with their feet - nobody wants the corps of cadets to be a fake service academy or a socialized indoctrination program. The Aggie corps is unique and effective in building leaders in the military, industry, and beyond. Commandant will never reach 3,000 by kicking off his program with a 500+ current cadet loss and decimating the great outfits in favor of some hidden agenda being driven by the ****birds that couldn't make it in an outfit and/or an outside influence who has no actual leadership frame of concept. Dumb! Dumb! Dumb!
ABATTBQ87
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ELREY said:

tree91 said:

tiko89 said:


"This is all my fault. My apologies to everyone on this board. Clearly, I didn't crap out this commandant enough when we were in the Corps."

tree91, I heard that Michaelis was a frog into your outfit? I'm wondering if that colors his experience and thoughts on the fish year....
I made a lighthearted comment that was, not surprisingly, taken too literally on F16. I hope I crapped him out at some point, but I don't remember him. He was not in my outfit.
That is actually a great question. The commandant is Class of 93. Does anyone here actually remember him? I have yet to meet anyone that knew him as a cadet and our time overlapped by 1 year.

If someone knew him please post and tell us about him as a Cadet? I heard he was a Frog in E-1. Which helps frame this decision a bit for me. The guy wasn't a fish and he doesn't understand how important that experience actually is to a Cadet.
1992 Aggieland:

Brigade Staff, Recruiting Sergeant



1993 Aggieland:

E 1 Jocks:



First Brigade Staff:

TX_COWDOC
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Seriously? Compromise on this absurd plan and make the Streetfighter T-shirt the goal to shoot for?
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Houston Lee
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bobbranco
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JodyMcD96 said:

bobbranco said:

Fair enough.

Don't be surprised by the criticism.


What I'm surprised by is the lack of an answer on your membership in the organization and your focus on hazing when it's not a listed driver of this change plan.

Or, maybe I'm unsurprised.
No reason to worry. I have plenty of family that attended A&M and have long experience with friends and family in the military. Leadership is an important topic for me and I see how hazing can disrupt good organizations. I see what has been posted and knowing somewhat how the CoC operates and when kids quit I am able to decipher that the first semester is where kids quit. And why? Hazing. Bad grades. etc. Best of luck. I hope it works out for you.
eric76
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freedomfighter11 said:

What a stupid proposition. All current cadets should march with their feet - nobody wants the corps of cadets to be a fake service academy or a socialized indoctrination program. The Aggie corps is unique and effective in building leaders in the military, industry, and beyond. Commandant will never reach 3,000 by kicking off his program with a 500+ current cadet loss and decimating the great outfits in favor of some hidden agenda being driven by the ****birds that couldn't make it in an outfit and/or an outside influence who has no actual leadership frame of concept. Dumb! Dumb! Dumb!
So the answer to saving the corps of cadets is for everyone to quit?
freedomfighter11
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You missed my point.. this proposed plan will result in hundreds of cadets punching out. My point is that this plan creates a corps that is not worth saving. We don't need another service academy model.
Malibu
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Hes painted the picture of the Corps as a fundamentally broken entity because....10% quit after 3 weeks and underclassman arent whipping out? And we now need wholesale change to radically fix this 'problem' in a way that makes the Corps unrecognizeable to old CTs who are screaming that this will make the Corps worse. Yikes. This isnt an existential crisis, its a minor headache a few tweaks should fix.

What a charlie foxtrot of executive leadership. 20 years later still talk to my outfit buddies and uperclassman on a daily basis. I hope leadership gets the memo that this isnt the way.
aggiez03
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ELREY said:

tree91 said:

tiko89 said:


"This is all my fault. My apologies to everyone on this board. Clearly, I didn't crap out this commandant enough when we were in the Corps."

tree91, I heard that Michaelis was a frog into your outfit? I'm wondering if that colors his experience and thoughts on the fish year....
I made a lighthearted comment that was, not surprisingly, taken too literally on F16. I hope I crapped him out at some point, but I don't remember him. He was not in my outfit.
That is actually a great question. The commandant is Class of 93. Does anyone here actually remember him? I have yet to meet anyone that knew him as a cadet and our time overlapped by 1 year.

If someone knew him please post and tell us about him as a Cadet? I heard he was a Frog in E-1. Which helps frame this decision a bit for me. The guy wasn't a fish and he doesn't understand how important that experience actually is to a Cadet.
He was in an actual outfit for 3 of 8 semesters.

Fish in the Fall, Spring of Fish year left for some kind of military training (did not receive Corps Brass)
Soph in outfit
Jr -Brigade Staff
Sr - Brigade Staff

So if anyone is wondering why he doesn't care about outfit culture it is because he was present in an outfit for less than 50% of his Corps career.

The Major Unit Staffers barely ever set foot in the dorm much less contribute to the outfit.
SouthTex99
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JodyMcD96
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Ripley and Gates were Animals, I'm curious what they thinks.
JodyMcD96
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bobbranco said:

JodyMcD96 said:

bobbranco said:

Fair enough.

Don't be surprised by the criticism.


What I'm surprised by is the lack of an answer on your membership in the organization and your focus on hazing when it's not a listed driver of this change plan.

Or, maybe I'm unsurprised.
No reason to worry. I have plenty of family that attended A&M and have long experience with friends and family in the military. Leadership is an important topic for me and I see how hazing can disrupt good organizations. I see what has been posted and knowing somewhat how the CoC operates and when kids quit I am able to decipher that the first semester is where kids quit. And why? Hazing. Bad grades. etc. Best of luck. I hope it works out for you.


Well thank you for your well wishes. I saw kids punch in their first semester due to grades, girlfriends at home, being in the Corps to make Dad or Granddad happy, a complete lack of will to endure stress and due to the fact that they just wanted guaranteed housing.

Your stuck on something that has a very real definition and using it, in my opinion, haphazardly to impugn the Corps and absolve people who quit for nebulous reasons of any regret. It's weird.

Everyone who punches has their reasons, I'd wager actual hazing is less than 1%.

ETA: how are you posting with an Ag Tag if you had family that went to A&M, are you not a Former Student or current student? Your experience with friends and family in the military isn't germane to this discussion and further calls into question your insistence on posting fervently on hazing. Especially since you did not indicate your "experience" with the Corps either personally or with a familial connection to the organization.
aggiez03
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JodyMcD96 said:

bobbranco said:

JodyMcD96 said:

bobbranco said:

Fair enough.

Don't be surprised by the criticism.


What I'm surprised by is the lack of an answer on your membership in the organization and your focus on hazing when it's not a listed driver of this change plan.

Or, maybe I'm unsurprised.
No reason to worry. I have plenty of family that attended A&M and have long experience with friends and family in the military. Leadership is an important topic for me and I see how hazing can disrupt good organizations. I see what has been posted and knowing somewhat how the CoC operates and when kids quit I am able to decipher that the first semester is where kids quit. And why? Hazing. Bad grades. etc. Best of luck. I hope it works out for you.


Well thank you for your well wishes. I saw kids punch in their first semester due to grades, girlfriends at home, being in the Corps to make Dad or Granddad happy, a complete lack of will to endure stress and due to the fact that they just wanted guaranteed housing.

Your stuck on something that has a very real definition and using it, in my opinion, haphazardly to impugn the Corps and absolve people who quit for nebulous reasons of any regret. It's weird.

Everyone who punches has their reasons, I'd wager actual hazing is less than 1%.
I would stop engaging. He is hung up on Corps hazing for some reason, I explained that the Corps actually has less hazing incidents than most Frats around America, but he keeps beating that drum.
CBatt20
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So, wait, you waltz into this topic declaring you know exactly what the problem is, while having no experience in the Corps whatsoever and having your supposed issue completely unmentioned by Michaelis?

Rather imbecilic, frankly. Do better.
JodyMcD96
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aggiez03 said:

JodyMcD96 said:

bobbranco said:

JodyMcD96 said:

bobbranco said:

Fair enough.

Don't be surprised by the criticism.


What I'm surprised by is the lack of an answer on your membership in the organization and your focus on hazing when it's not a listed driver of this change plan.

Or, maybe I'm unsurprised.
No reason to worry. I have plenty of family that attended A&M and have long experience with friends and family in the military. Leadership is an important topic for me and I see how hazing can disrupt good organizations. I see what has been posted and knowing somewhat how the CoC operates and when kids quit I am able to decipher that the first semester is where kids quit. And why? Hazing. Bad grades. etc. Best of luck. I hope it works out for you.


Well thank you for your well wishes. I saw kids punch in their first semester due to grades, girlfriends at home, being in the Corps to make Dad or Granddad happy, a complete lack of will to endure stress and due to the fact that they just wanted guaranteed housing.

Your stuck on something that has a very real definition and using it, in my opinion, haphazardly to impugn the Corps and absolve people who quit for nebulous reasons of any regret. It's weird.

Everyone who punches has their reasons, I'd wager actual hazing is less than 1%.
I would stop engaging. He is hung up on Corps hazing for some reason, I explained that the Corps actually has less hazing incidents than most Frats around America, but he keeps beating that drum.


I will. I'd rather not derail things.

On another note I've seen a petition of the current members. Has anyone else seen it?
TX_COWDOC
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Received a call earlier…it's over 500 signatures. What a disaster. These cadets should be having the time of their lives. Enjoying the beautiful weather with outside activities. Making grades. Preparing for the transition of the Corps journey.
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tamc93
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Damn...bull ring should be interesting the next few weeks!

2nd lesson they are about to learn is to not buck the bulls - they do not care what you think or feel.
aggiez03
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JodyMcD96 said:

aggiez03 said:

JodyMcD96 said:

bobbranco said:

JodyMcD96 said:

bobbranco said:

Fair enough.

Don't be surprised by the criticism.


What I'm surprised by is the lack of an answer on your membership in the organization and your focus on hazing when it's not a listed driver of this change plan.

Or, maybe I'm unsurprised.
No reason to worry. I have plenty of family that attended A&M and have long experience with friends and family in the military. Leadership is an important topic for me and I see how hazing can disrupt good organizations. I see what has been posted and knowing somewhat how the CoC operates and when kids quit I am able to decipher that the first semester is where kids quit. And why? Hazing. Bad grades. etc. Best of luck. I hope it works out for you.


Well thank you for your well wishes. I saw kids punch in their first semester due to grades, girlfriends at home, being in the Corps to make Dad or Granddad happy, a complete lack of will to endure stress and due to the fact that they just wanted guaranteed housing.

Your stuck on something that has a very real definition and using it, in my opinion, haphazardly to impugn the Corps and absolve people who quit for nebulous reasons of any regret. It's weird.

Everyone who punches has their reasons, I'd wager actual hazing is less than 1%.
I would stop engaging. He is hung up on Corps hazing for some reason, I explained that the Corps actually has less hazing incidents than most Frats around America, but he keeps beating that drum.


I will. I'd rather not derail things.

On another note I've seen a petition of the current members. Has anyone else seen it?
Yes, my pisshead sent it to me last night. No idea how many have signed it, but most CTs are pissed about it from his circles.
munch96
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Haven't seen the petition... where is it at?
ELREY
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aggiez03 said:

ELREY said:

tree91 said:

tiko89 said:


"This is all my fault. My apologies to everyone on this board. Clearly, I didn't crap out this commandant enough when we were in the Corps."

tree91, I heard that Michaelis was a frog into your outfit? I'm wondering if that colors his experience and thoughts on the fish year....
I made a lighthearted comment that was, not surprisingly, taken too literally on F16. I hope I crapped him out at some point, but I don't remember him. He was not in my outfit.
That is actually a great question. The commandant is Class of 93. Does anyone here actually remember him? I have yet to meet anyone that knew him as a cadet and our time overlapped by 1 year.

If someone knew him please post and tell us about him as a Cadet? I heard he was a Frog in E-1. Which helps frame this decision a bit for me. The guy wasn't a fish and he doesn't understand how important that experience actually is to a Cadet.
He was in an actual outfit for 3 of 8 semesters.

Fish in the Fall, Spring of Fish year left for some kind of military training (did not receive Corps Brass)
Soph in outfit
Jr -Brigade Staff
Sr - Brigade Staff

So if anyone is wondering why he doesn't care about outfit culture it is because he was present in an outfit for less than 50% of his Corps career.

The Major Unit Staffers barely ever set foot in the dorm much less contribute to the outfit.
Thank you for the information!
schmellba99
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Sethtevious said:


I don't see how this forces EQUITY?

It sounds to me like they've decided they don't trust certain outfits to train their freshmen (too many hazing incidents, maybe?), and instead of rooting those outfits out or closing them, they're going to train the freshmen as a cohort.

Leaving the outfit choice to second semester means outfits will recruit like fraternities, and I have no idea if that is a good or bad thing. Maybe such recruiting with encourage outfit culture to solidify, maybe it will completely destroy outfits.

Worst case scenario for me seems to be that you'll have a Corps in four years that identifies more by the whole organization than by particular outfits. I am curious how this affects the FTAB.
I still don't see this happening.

Look at the Army or Marines - none of them identify by their basic training class, they all identify by the outfit to which they ultimately get assigned.

Nobody asks another army guy when they find out they were also army what basic training class they were in, they always ask which unit. Same for marines.

About the only group that I can think of that MAY identify more by their basic training class than any other would be SEALS, but that's because it is extremely specialized and attrition is over 70% in most cases. Even then, the couple I've known generally end up talking about which team they were on and where they deployed to.

I still don't see the "it will kill the corps" in this. Mostly i see it's a change, and change is always fought against at A&M. Is it a good change or a bad change? Hell, who knows, I'm sure the results will be apparent in somewhat short order. The Corps has changed a lot since the days it was founded, not all of them good, not all of them bad. Like it or not though, change is one of the only constants there is and unfortunately change is often required for survival.
Gator_2
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I'd be interested in seeing the letter going around.
Easy come, easy go
Bryan98
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This sounds like ass, my dude.

I imagine the Commandant is trying to make a name for himself as an innovator or change agent and, after tearing down traditions going back centuries, will be seeking another job, possibly political office.
ABATTBQ11
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+1. My biggest issue here is the reported reasoning, or lack thereof, behind this.

There is no clear, objective definition of what a successful cadet looks like upon graduation. There is no measure of how many cadets do or do not meet such criteria. In his response I see mentions of wanting higher quality cars and graduates, but I don't see how that is being defined or measured.

There is no clear, objective assessment or definition of what acceptable attrition looks like at any stage and why that is the desired attrition rate. He decries going from 1% attrition during FOW to 10% a few weeks into the semester, but I don't see any reasoning or definition of why that is bad or what the expected attrition rate should be and why. Are there data that indicate some kind of lower performance with that attrition rate on that timeline? How is that all defined and measured?

I don't see any evidence or data showing any kind of link between the status quo and looking term negative outcomes for cadets, or even a lack of positive outcomes. I don't see any evidence or data that suggests a link between these proposed changes and more positive outcomes. I don't even see a measurement mechanism for progress or any kind control.

What I do see is an executive leader saying there is a problem but with no definition of that problem or defined goals to solve it. There may be a problem or multiple problems with the Corps, but no one can solve them until they can succinctly define and state them and how a proposed solution will address such problems. I could maybe back these changes if there was some kind of longitudinal study that ties attrition rate or hours of Corps/leadership training or some other measure to pay rates or promotions or some other measure after graduation, but nothing has been presented. There's no definition or measure of success beyond hoping they don't **** things up and make it worse.

If this were a company I worked at, I'd be leaving for lack of faith in organizational management and leadership.
schmellba99
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freedomfighter11 said:

You missed my point.. this proposed plan will result in hundreds of cadets punching out. My point is that this plan creates a corps that is not worth saving. We don't need another service academy model.
Quote:

in the fall of 1946, Texas A&M gained the use of Bryan Air Force Base, which was being closed, and converted a number of its buildings into dormitories. In 1947, all entering freshmen, approximately 1,500, were assigned to the Bryan Air Force Base "Annex" which became essentially a freshman campus. The Cadet Corps reorganized again to accommodate these unusual conditions.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_A%26M_University_Corps_of_Cadets#cite_note-Adams,_op._cit-18][18][/url] The 194748 Cadet Corps consisted of five regiments, a Headquarters Group, and the Band during that academic year. The five regiments (a combined Infantry and Veterans regiment, an Artillery regiment, a combined Air Force and Cavalry regiment, a combined Engineer and Composite regiment, and the "Training Regiment" consisting of nine companies of freshmen), the Headquarters Group and the Band were composed of a total of 35 individual military units.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_A%26M_University_Corps_of_Cadets#cite_note-Adams,_op._cit-18][18][/url] The 195152 academic year saw the organization of the Cadet Corps at is largest in number of individual units. Sixty-six units (companies, batteries and squadrons) were divided among 8 regiments (Infantry, Artillery, Armor/Engineers, First Air Force Wing, 2nd Air Force Wing, Composite Regiment, Seventh Regiment and the Eighth Freshman Training Regiment) consisting of 21 battalions and the Band.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_A%26M_University_Corps_of_Cadets#cite_note-Adams,_op._cit-18][18][/url]

During this post-war era and into the 1950s, the various units of the Corps continued to be identified by their military branch. The traditional branches (Infantry, Field Artillery, Cavalry, Engineers, Coast Artillery, Quartermaster, Ordinance, Signal Corps, Armor, Chemical Corps, Transportation, Army Security, and Army Air Force) continued to be represented. But the strength of air power and the rise of the importance of the U.S. Air Force during this era was evident in the organization of the Cadet Corps as Army Air Corps units became Air Force flights (later squadrons). Veterans companies and flights were formed to separate these older veterans from younger cadets. Beginning in 1948 athletes were organized into their own batteries (later companies) to accommodate special team practice schedules.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_A%26M_University_Corps_of_Cadets#cite_note-Adams,_op._cit-18][18][/url] That same year, 1948, the Freshman Regiment added a Band Company and four Air Force flights for a total of 12 units. The Eighth Freshman Training Regiment was moved to the main campus in the fall of 1950, and by 1951, it consisted of a total of 15 freshman companies, batteries and squadrons, each with a branch designation, attached to which was a Senior Battalion of four companies of cadet Seniors. During the 195354 school year, over one-third of the 57 Corps units, a total of 21, consisted of Freshmen. The following year, freshmen were incorporated back into the other Corps units
Having all freshmen essentially housed and trained together didn't seem to kill the Corps the first time it was implemented, which ran from 1946 through 1954.
ELREY
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schmellba99 said:

freedomfighter11 said:

You missed my point.. this proposed plan will result in hundreds of cadets punching out. My point is that this plan creates a corps that is not worth saving. We don't need another service academy model.
Quote:

in the fall of 1946, Texas A&M gained the use of Bryan Air Force Base, which was being closed, and converted a number of its buildings into dormitories. In 1947, all entering freshmen, approximately 1,500, were assigned to the Bryan Air Force Base "Annex" which became essentially a freshman campus. The Cadet Corps reorganized again to accommodate these unusual conditions.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_A%26M_University_Corps_of_Cadets#cite_note-Adams,_op._cit-18][18][/url] The 194748 Cadet Corps consisted of five regiments, a Headquarters Group, and the Band during that academic year. The five regiments (a combined Infantry and Veterans regiment, an Artillery regiment, a combined Air Force and Cavalry regiment, a combined Engineer and Composite regiment, and the "Training Regiment" consisting of nine companies of freshmen), the Headquarters Group and the Band were composed of a total of 35 individual military units.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_A%26M_University_Corps_of_Cadets#cite_note-Adams,_op._cit-18][18][/url] The 195152 academic year saw the organization of the Cadet Corps at is largest in number of individual units. Sixty-six units (companies, batteries and squadrons) were divided among 8 regiments (Infantry, Artillery, Armor/Engineers, First Air Force Wing, 2nd Air Force Wing, Composite Regiment, Seventh Regiment and the Eighth Freshman Training Regiment) consisting of 21 battalions and the Band.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_A%26M_University_Corps_of_Cadets#cite_note-Adams,_op._cit-18][18][/url]

During this post-war era and into the 1950s, the various units of the Corps continued to be identified by their military branch. The traditional branches (Infantry, Field Artillery, Cavalry, Engineers, Coast Artillery, Quartermaster, Ordinance, Signal Corps, Armor, Chemical Corps, Transportation, Army Security, and Army Air Force) continued to be represented. But the strength of air power and the rise of the importance of the U.S. Air Force during this era was evident in the organization of the Cadet Corps as Army Air Corps units became Air Force flights (later squadrons). Veterans companies and flights were formed to separate these older veterans from younger cadets. Beginning in 1948 athletes were organized into their own batteries (later companies) to accommodate special team practice schedules.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_A%26M_University_Corps_of_Cadets#cite_note-Adams,_op._cit-18][18][/url] That same year, 1948, the Freshman Regiment added a Band Company and four Air Force flights for a total of 12 units. The Eighth Freshman Training Regiment was moved to the main campus in the fall of 1950, and by 1951, it consisted of a total of 15 freshman companies, batteries and squadrons, each with a branch designation, attached to which was a Senior Battalion of four companies of cadet Seniors. During the 195354 school year, over one-third of the 57 Corps units, a total of 21, consisted of Freshmen. The following year, freshmen were incorporated back into the other Corps units
Having all freshmen essentially housed and trained together didn't seem to kill the Corps the first time it was implemented, which ran from 1946 through 1954.
A lot has changed since the 1950s. In 1950 everyone in the Corps was military and there were no women. This is a terrible example, plus it looks backwards, not forward.
ABATTBQ87
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The end of WWII and the increase of veterans attending A&M, as well as an increase of hazing due to post war exuberance of upper classmen was a major reason to get fish off campus for awhile
bobbranco
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CBatt20 said:

So, wait, you waltz into this topic declaring you know exactly what the problem is, while having no experience in the Corps whatsoever and having your supposed issue completely unmentioned by Michaelis?

Rather imbecilic, frankly. Do better.
I tell you what is imbecilic is the lack of awareness. The incident below happened with sophomores not freshman. It's absolutely embarrassing to every Aggie. Do you want us to keep quiet while your brethren continue to embarrass us to the world. Screw that.

Any idiot can determine the disgusting and criminal behavior posted below, the link posted earlier in the thread by another poster, will kill the CoC not the change to outfit culture. After reading that I posit the hazing is what is forcing this change. You guys better get your crap together and lead or you will lose the CoC.

Quote:

Ten members of the Texas A&M Corps of Cadets face allegations of hazing a fellow cadet from the Houston area with "degrading and humiliating" acts last year when they trapped the student in a dark campus dorm room, according to a lawsuit filed against the students.

The student says he was lured to a room under false pretenses, forced to be part of a dramatized sexual act by a Corps member, and tied between two beds like a roasted pig with an apple forced in his mouth, he said in the suit. Some of the students simply watched or laughed, allegedly violating university rules and state laws by not stopping the hazing, his attorneys said.

Blah, blah, blah ...

Quote:

One of the defendants then was ordered to strip naked and "crucify" himself, according to the lawsuit. The student placed a condom on his *****, danced around the room, and began rubbing his body against the trapped cadet, he said.

The cadet again tried to leave, but the naked student bearhugged him, according to the suit. He yelled and threatened to respond violently, but the defendants only laughed, he said. They then bound his hands and feet with duct tape and placed an apple in his mouth, the cadet alleged. They threaded a closet rod between his hands and feet and hoisted him like a roast pig between two beds, his lawyers said in the lawsuit.

Some of the cadets took a photo smiling next to him and shared the picture with every sophomore cadet, the plaintiff alleged.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/education/article/texas-am-hazing-lawsuit-cadets-18550232.php
Tom Kazansky 2012
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Yeah I think all of us want criminal behavior prosecuted and we want hazing like that to never be a thing to good cadets.

Explain how this new measure will stop hazing.

I think for most of us former CTs, most of us surmise that the new measures will not adequately protect the fish while also sacrificing that pivotal first fish semester.

So I don't know why you keep bringing this up. We are in agreement. Hazing (and especially sexual assault) is bad and should be stopped.
Fuzzy Dunlop
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I'm not minimizing the alleged event. However, you're saying the other 99.6% of current cadets and ALL future cadets should now have a different experience for the entirety of the Corps remaining existence. This after you've admitted that all the service academies, many fraternities, and other Senior Military Colleges have hazing issues so we need to make these changes to be more like them.

If this were a yearly occurrence, I'd admit that the Corps has a hazing problem. In reality, we hear about these things every 10 years or so. I'm not saying hazing doesn't happen more frequently, I'm just saying it rises to this level once a decade. I don't see that as an organization problem, I see that as an occasional ***hole problem.
Double Talkin' Jive...
Tom Kazansky 2012
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Tom Kazansky 2012
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Let's be just like the academies right?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna74371


Tom Kazansky 2012
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AG
At 4450 enrolled and an average of 45 or so reported sexual assaults per year, that makes for about a 4% chance you will have some kind of sexual assault episode at your time in the US Naval academy.

And we should do as they're doing?
bobbranco
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Good luck.
 
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