Fuzzy Dunlop said:

---

Here's my take:

This is all BS. As many of you have already stated, he's solving a problem that doesn't exist. Retention is one thing but trying to retain everyone is not what is needed. This is a feel good inclusion move. fish life is hard and that is what made my time in the Corps worth it. When my buddies and I get together, most of our stories are about fish year. Yeah, there's a few stories of being pissheads or roaming the steam tunnels when we were Butts and Zips but 97% of the stories are the crap outs, hall parties, 3x5 come-bys, current events at chow, our rivalry with L-1, etc.

He's blaming the sophomores for not being ready to lead but in reality, it's the Trigon's fault for not having then ready. Actually, pissheads aren't ready until the 2nd semester anyway. Some of our worst crap outs were as pissheads.

I think part of the outfit culture problem started when they rotating leadership positions and taking 1st Sgts and COs from one outfit and moving then to another. I understand that was not his initiative but I don't think this change will fix the "problem."

---

BQZip01 said:

---

2. A system that leads to outfit culture like this needs massive reform: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/education/article/texas-am-hazing-lawsuit-cadets-18550232.php

---

bobbranco said:

---

BQZip01 said:

---

2. A system that leads to outfit culture like this needs massive reform: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/education/article/texas-am-hazing-lawsuit-cadets-18550232.php

---

The CoC destroys its credibility with these shenanigans. Calls into question the idea that untrained immature soldier wannabes can effectively train much less lead men or allowed to attend college.

---

JB!98 said:

---

Naval Academy is sounding better and better for my class of '30 son. We were leaning that direction anyway.

---

Tachoro said:

---

I am a US military officer and A&M grad. I was not in the corps. I'm not trying to mess with tradition but I would like to see everyone in the corps be on a path to actually commission into the armed forces, similar to a service academy. The changes mentioned in this thread may not impact that at all, but I think respect for the corps increases as the commissioning rate increases.

---

aggiez03 said:

---

bobbranco said:

---

BQZip01 said:

---

2. A system that leads to outfit culture like this needs massive reform: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/education/article/texas-am-hazing-lawsuit-cadets-18550232.php

---

The CoC destroys its credibility with these shenanigans. Calls into question the idea that untrained immature soldier wannabes can effectively train much less lead men or allowed to attend college.

---

Idiots no doubt and they should be kicked out of the university, but to act like this only happens in the Corps is pushing an agenda.

---

bobbranco said:

---

aggiez03 said:

---

bobbranco said:

---

BQZip01 said:

---

2. A system that leads to outfit culture like this needs massive reform: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/education/article/texas-am-hazing-lawsuit-cadets-18550232.php

---

The CoC destroys its credibility with these shenanigans. Calls into question the idea that untrained immature soldier wannabes can effectively train much less lead men or allowed to attend college.

---

Idiots no doubt and they should be kicked out of the university, but to act like this only happens in the Corps is pushing an agenda.

---

Never said it only happens at A&M. I imagine the bulls constantly battle the frat boy problem.

Glad you recognize the fraternity similarities. And yes, fraternities and the CoC need to clean up their acts.

ETA:
The student leaders in the CoC should know better.

---

aggiez03 said:

---

bobbranco said:

---

The 'hazing' in that Chronicle article was amongst Sophomores? Right? Leaders, right? How many times has this occurred in the past?

How these idiots made it to year 2 is beyond me. This hazing, that I would classify as a sexual assault, is probably learned behavior. Some of those guys should be jailed and put on a sex offender registry. Totally inexcusable and upperclassmen heads should roll, not necessarily dismissal for the upperclassmen but demotion, in addition to dismissing the participating sophomores.

---

So you actually think the Corps upper classman are teaching the fish and sophomores to remove their clothes put on a condom and rub up and down on their buddies to make them uncomfortable?

I would say it has probably happened a total of 1 time, like the time this happened.

Don't you think if this was something that was taught by upper classmen, that it would have come out more than 1 time?

This is not something that is taught in the Corps. Are you okay mentally?

Once again, when I called this out a pushing an agenda, I was obviously correct.

---

BQZip01 said:

---

Fuzzy Dunlop said:

---

Here's my take:

This is all BS. As many of you have already stated, he's solving a problem that doesn't exist. Retention is one thing but trying to retain everyone is not what is needed. This is a feel good inclusion move. fish life is hard and that is what made my time in the Corps worth it. When my buddies and I get together, most of our stories are about fish year. Yeah, there's a few stories of being pissheads or roaming the steam tunnels when we were Butts and Zips but 97% of the stories are the crap outs, hall parties, 3x5 come-bys, current events at chow, our rivalry with L-1, etc.

He's blaming the sophomores for not being ready to lead but in reality, it's the Trigon's fault for not having then ready. Actually, pissheads aren't ready until the 2nd semester anyway. Some of our worst crap outs were as pissheads.

I think part of the outfit culture problem started when they rotating leadership positions and taking 1st Sgts and COs from one outfit and moving then to another. I understand that was not his initiative but I don't think this change will fix the "problem."

---

"A problem that doesn't exist"
1. Outfit culture IS a problem when cadets actively flaunt the rules saying "our outfit doesn't do that".
2. A system that leads to outfit culture like this needs massive reform: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/education/article/texas-am-hazing-lawsuit-cadets-18550232.php

---

HollywoodBQ said:

---

valvemonkey91 said:

---

The Corps has been in decline for a while (and I'm not talking about numbers). It was taken out from under of the ROTC umbrella years ago and is now considered a "student organization" no different than the math club. It is subject to Title IX bull**** and discipline metered out by studemt life that is as woke as it gets. Co-Ed dorms are an awful idea and should not exist. The corps SHOULD be trying to prepare MEN for military Service and not be this social experiment that it has become. The head of the snake is John Sharp. Ramirez was a woke idiot too.

---

Now back to the OP topic gigantic - Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.

They'd be better off starting about June 20th for 8 weeks of Corps of Cadets Basic Training before school starts.

---

aggie93 said:

---

BQZip01 said:

---

Fuzzy Dunlop said:

---

Here's my take:

This is all BS. As many of you have already stated, he's solving a problem that doesn't exist. Retention is one thing but trying to retain everyone is not what is needed. This is a feel good inclusion move. fish life is hard and that is what made my time in the Corps worth it. When my buddies and I get together, most of our stories are about fish year. Yeah, there's a few stories of being pissheads or roaming the steam tunnels when we were Butts and Zips but 97% of the stories are the crap outs, hall parties, 3x5 come-bys, current events at chow, our rivalry with L-1, etc.

He's blaming the sophomores for not being ready to lead but in reality, it's the Trigon's fault for not having then ready. Actually, pissheads aren't ready until the 2nd semester anyway. Some of our worst crap outs were as pissheads.

I think part of the outfit culture problem started when they rotating leadership positions and taking 1st Sgts and COs from one outfit and moving then to another. I understand that was not his initiative but I don't think this change will fix the "problem."

---

"A problem that doesn't exist"
1. Outfit culture IS a problem when cadets actively flaunt the rules saying "our outfit doesn't do that".
2. A system that leads to outfit culture like this needs massive reform: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/education/article/texas-am-hazing-lawsuit-cadets-18550232.php

---

There have always been bad outfits. Fix the problem and have them model after the good outfits. That's how they have done it for 100 years. This solution destroys the good outfits.

---

BQZip01 said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

BQZip01 said:

---

Fuzzy Dunlop said:

---

Here's my take:

This is all BS. As many of you have already stated, he's solving a problem that doesn't exist. Retention is one thing but trying to retain everyone is not what is needed. This is a feel good inclusion move. fish life is hard and that is what made my time in the Corps worth it. When my buddies and I get together, most of our stories are about fish year. Yeah, there's a few stories of being pissheads or roaming the steam tunnels when we were Butts and Zips but 97% of the stories are the crap outs, hall parties, 3x5 come-bys, current events at chow, our rivalry with L-1, etc.

He's blaming the sophomores for not being ready to lead but in reality, it's the Trigon's fault for not having then ready. Actually, pissheads aren't ready until the 2nd semester anyway. Some of our worst crap outs were as pissheads.

I think part of the outfit culture problem started when they rotating leadership positions and taking 1st Sgts and COs from one outfit and moving then to another. I understand that was not his initiative but I don't think this change will fix the "problem."

---

"A problem that doesn't exist"
1. Outfit culture IS a problem when cadets actively flaunt the rules saying "our outfit doesn't do that".
2. A system that leads to outfit culture like this needs massive reform: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/education/article/texas-am-hazing-lawsuit-cadets-18550232.php

---

There have always been bad outfits. Fix the problem and have them model after the good outfits. That's how they have done it for 100 years. This solution destroys the good outfits.

---

The problem appears to be Corps-wide and Outfit Culture is the root of it. You cannot force bad outfits to become good without shaking things up. I highly doubt that a unit without fish for 4 weeks will "destroy the good outfits"

---

Quote:

---

When did the tradition of kidnapping CO's stop?

---

Quote:

---

They'd be better off starting about June 20th for 8 weeks of Corps of Cadets Basic Training before school starts.

---

aggiez03 said:

---

BQZip01 said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

BQZip01 said:

---

Fuzzy Dunlop said:

---

Here's my take:

This is all BS. As many of you have already stated, he's solving a problem that doesn't exist. Retention is one thing but trying to retain everyone is not what is needed. This is a feel good inclusion move. fish life is hard and that is what made my time in the Corps worth it. When my buddies and I get together, most of our stories are about fish year. Yeah, there's a few stories of being pissheads or roaming the steam tunnels when we were Butts and Zips but 97% of the stories are the crap outs, hall parties, 3x5 come-bys, current events at chow, our rivalry with L-1, etc.

He's blaming the sophomores for not being ready to lead but in reality, it's the Trigon's fault for not having then ready. Actually, pissheads aren't ready until the 2nd semester anyway. Some of our worst crap outs were as pissheads.

I think part of the outfit culture problem started when they rotating leadership positions and taking 1st Sgts and COs from one outfit and moving then to another. I understand that was not his initiative but I don't think this change will fix the "problem."

---

"A problem that doesn't exist"
1. Outfit culture IS a problem when cadets actively flaunt the rules saying "our outfit doesn't do that".
2. A system that leads to outfit culture like this needs massive reform: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/education/article/texas-am-hazing-lawsuit-cadets-18550232.php

---

There have always been bad outfits. Fix the problem and have them model after the good outfits. That's how they have done it for 100 years. This solution destroys the good outfits.

---

The problem appears to be Corps-wide and Outfit Culture is the root of it. You cannot force bad outfits to become good without shaking things up. I highly doubt that a unit without fish for 4 weeks will "destroy the good outfits"

---

Where are you getting 4 weeks?

It is 8 weeks with no fish in the outfit, so that is from mid August, all September, 1/2 October. All the fish are together and no outfit training is happening at all cause they are not separated at all.

Then after that (mid Oct - 3rd week Nov) about 4-5 weeks with fish (living separately) and attending outfit training areas in random hallways on certain days. So they have zero outfit contact for 8 full weeks (really 9 when you figure in FOW). Then another 4-5 weeks where they see upperclassmen maybe 2 hours per day, 4 to 5 days per week. Then Thankgiving, come back for finals, and home for Xmas break for a month.

Might as well go to school at a regular ROTC program at UH or the like. That is not a Corps experience.

---

HollywoodBQ said:

---

JB!98 said:

---

Naval Academy is sounding better and better for my class of '30 son. We were leaning that direction anyway.

---

Take a look at Virginia Tech and VMI too.

---

aggie93 said:

---

BQZip01 said:

---

Fuzzy Dunlop said:

---

Here's my take:

This is all BS. As many of you have already stated, he's solving a problem that doesn't exist. Retention is one thing but trying to retain everyone is not what is needed. This is a feel good inclusion move. fish life is hard and that is what made my time in the Corps worth it. When my buddies and I get together, most of our stories are about fish year. Yeah, there's a few stories of being pissheads or roaming the steam tunnels when we were Butts and Zips but 97% of the stories are the crap outs, hall parties, 3x5 come-bys, current events at chow, our rivalry with L-1, etc.

He's blaming the sophomores for not being ready to lead but in reality, it's the Trigon's fault for not having then ready. Actually, pissheads aren't ready until the 2nd semester anyway. Some of our worst crap outs were as pissheads.

I think part of the outfit culture problem started when they rotating leadership positions and taking 1st Sgts and COs from one outfit and moving then to another. I understand that was not his initiative but I don't think this change will fix the "problem."

---

"A problem that doesn't exist"
1. Outfit culture IS a problem when cadets actively flaunt the rules saying "our outfit doesn't do that".
2. A system that leads to outfit culture like this needs massive reform: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/education/article/texas-am-hazing-lawsuit-cadets-18550232.php

---

There have always been bad outfits. Fix the problem and have them model after the good outfits. That's how they have done it for 100 years. This solution destroys the good outfits.

---

The Kraken said:

---

Quote:

---

They'd be better off starting about June 20th for 8 weeks of Corps of Cadets Basic Training before school starts.

---

That's what the academies do, and an option I'm sure has been mulled over by A&M....but who pays for it? What upperclassmen will (or can) assist? Would having a mandatory fish orientation summer be a huge negative to recruiting?

---