Major Corps Changes - Political BS
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Last: 8 mo ago by Tex100
"A problem that doesn't exist"Fuzzy Dunlop said:
Here's my take:
This is all BS. As many of you have already stated, he's solving a problem that doesn't exist. Retention is one thing but trying to retain everyone is not what is needed. This is a feel good inclusion move. fish life is hard and that is what made my time in the Corps worth it. When my buddies and I get together, most of our stories are about fish year. Yeah, there's a few stories of being pissheads or roaming the steam tunnels when we were Butts and Zips but 97% of the stories are the crap outs, hall parties, 3x5 come-bys, current events at chow, our rivalry with L-1, etc.
He's blaming the sophomores for not being ready to lead but in reality, it's the Trigon's fault for not having then ready. Actually, pissheads aren't ready until the 2nd semester anyway. Some of our worst crap outs were as pissheads.
I think part of the outfit culture problem started when they rotating leadership positions and taking 1st Sgts and COs from one outfit and moving then to another. I understand that was not his initiative but I don't think this change will fix the "problem."
1. Outfit culture IS a problem when cadets actively flaunt the rules saying "our outfit doesn't do that".
2. A system that leads to outfit culture like this needs massive reform: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/education/article/texas-am-hazing-lawsuit-cadets-18550232.php
I updated the OP, please check if interested...
Another example of "wokeism". Do away with traditions.
Marvin J. Schiller
BQZip01 said:
2. A system that leads to outfit culture like this needs massive reform: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/education/article/texas-am-hazing-lawsuit-cadets-18550232.php
The CoC destroys its credibility with these shenanigans. Calls into question the idea that untrained immature soldier wannabes can effectively train much less lead men or allowed to attend college.
Idiots no doubt and they should be kicked out of the university, but to act like this only happens in the Corps is pushing an agenda.bobbranco said:BQZip01 said:
2. A system that leads to outfit culture like this needs massive reform: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/education/article/texas-am-hazing-lawsuit-cadets-18550232.php
The CoC destroys its credibility with these shenanigans. Calls into question the idea that untrained immature soldier wannabes can effectively train much less lead men or allowed to attend college.
For example...
From 2017 to 2021, 28 Cornell fraternities have seen suspensions or restrictions imposed on their activities due to hazing allegations. In 2019, then first-year student Antonio Tsialas '23 died due to fraternity hazing at Phi Kappa Psi, leading to Cornell indefinitely revoking the chapter's status.
28 fraternities suspended in 4 years at Cornell.
This kind of crap happens everywhere, but that does not excuse it, but also A&M shouldn't be single out either as their issues are relatively minor compared to most.
There was a story in La Vernia some years ago where there were some boys that sodomized a fish or sophomore as a hazing ritual. Does that mean everyone in La Vernia is into sodomy? Of course not.
Take a look at Virginia Tech and VMI too.JB!98 said:
Naval Academy is sounding better and better for my class of '30 son. We were leaning that direction anyway.
I get where you are coming from. The Trigon encourages cadets to go contract, but not everyone is interested in going into the military after graduation and not everyone who wants to go contract can get one (medical disqualifications, etc) The same is true at VMI, The Citadel and other Senior Military Colleges.Tachoro said:
I am a US military officer and A&M grad. I was not in the corps. I'm not trying to mess with tradition but I would like to see everyone in the corps be on a path to actually commission into the armed forces, similar to a service academy. The changes mentioned in this thread may not impact that at all, but I think respect for the corps increases as the commissioning rate increases.
plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Never said it only happens at A&M. I imagine the bulls constantly battle the frat boy problem.aggiez03 said:Idiots no doubt and they should be kicked out of the university, but to act like this only happens in the Corps is pushing an agenda.bobbranco said:BQZip01 said:
2. A system that leads to outfit culture like this needs massive reform: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/education/article/texas-am-hazing-lawsuit-cadets-18550232.php
The CoC destroys its credibility with these shenanigans. Calls into question the idea that untrained immature soldier wannabes can effectively train much less lead men or allowed to attend college.
Glad you recognize the fraternity similarities. And yes, fraternities and the CoC need to clean up their acts.
ETA:
The student leaders in the CoC should know better.
Well yes, groups of males get together and do stupid things. Doesn't matter the age.bobbranco said:Never said it only happens at A&M. I imagine the bulls constantly battle the frat boy problem.aggiez03 said:Idiots no doubt and they should be kicked out of the university, but to act like this only happens in the Corps is pushing an agenda.bobbranco said:BQZip01 said:
2. A system that leads to outfit culture like this needs massive reform: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/education/article/texas-am-hazing-lawsuit-cadets-18550232.php
The CoC destroys its credibility with these shenanigans. Calls into question the idea that untrained immature soldier wannabes can effectively train much less lead men or allowed to attend college.
Glad you recognize the fraternity similarities. And yes, fraternities and the CoC need to clean up their acts.
ETA:
The student leaders in the CoC should know better.
Most ER trips for guys in their 40s start with, "Here, hold my beer..."
So there will be similarities between the Corps and Frats in that regard.
Yes, I have no problem holding the Corps to a higher standard than any Frat.
But the definition of hazing should be made clear to everyone before the year begins, because it is changing constantly.
No doubt what the idiots did in the chron story was hazing however.
The 'hazing' in that Chronicle article was amongst Sophomores? Right? Leaders, right? How many times has this occurred in the past?
How these idiots made it to year 2 is beyond me. This hazing, that I would classify as a sexual assault, is probably learned behavior. Some of those guys should be jailed and put on a sex offender registry. Totally inexcusable and upperclassmen heads should roll, not necessarily dismissal for the upperclassmen but demotion, in addition to dismissing the participating sophomores.
How these idiots made it to year 2 is beyond me. This hazing, that I would classify as a sexual assault, is probably learned behavior. Some of those guys should be jailed and put on a sex offender registry. Totally inexcusable and upperclassmen heads should roll, not necessarily dismissal for the upperclassmen but demotion, in addition to dismissing the participating sophomores.
I have no idea how you would be able to let fish in the Aggie Band march their fish year if they didn't have that intense daily interaction with the sophomores in their outfits.
We knew within the first 5-6 weeks, who was going to make it and who wasn't.
We knew within the first 5-6 weeks, who was going to make it and who wasn't.
There's hazing. There always will be hazing. It doesn't matter what organization. To act like the corps, fraternities or other groups don't engage in it (to a degree) is stupid. Teams have and you'll never hear of that
So you actually think the Corps upper classman are teaching the fish and sophomores to remove their clothes put on a condom and rub up and down on their buddies to make them uncomfortable?bobbranco said:
The 'hazing' in that Chronicle article was amongst Sophomores? Right? Leaders, right? How many times has this occurred in the past?
How these idiots made it to year 2 is beyond me. This hazing, that I would classify as a sexual assault, is probably learned behavior. Some of those guys should be jailed and put on a sex offender registry. Totally inexcusable and upperclassmen heads should roll, not necessarily dismissal for the upperclassmen but demotion, in addition to dismissing the participating sophomores.
I would say it has probably happened a total of 1 time, like the time this happened.
Don't you think if this was something that was taught by upper classmen, that it would have come out more than 1 time?
This is not something that is taught in the Corps. Are you okay mentally?
Once again, when I called this out a pushing an agenda, I was obviously correct.
You are absolutely incorrect.aggiez03 said:So you actually think the Corps upper classman are teaching the fish and sophomores to remove their clothes put on a condom and rub up and down on their buddies to make them uncomfortable?bobbranco said:
The 'hazing' in that Chronicle article was amongst Sophomores? Right? Leaders, right? How many times has this occurred in the past?
How these idiots made it to year 2 is beyond me. This hazing, that I would classify as a sexual assault, is probably learned behavior. Some of those guys should be jailed and put on a sex offender registry. Totally inexcusable and upperclassmen heads should roll, not necessarily dismissal for the upperclassmen but demotion, in addition to dismissing the participating sophomores.
I would say it has probably happened a total of 1 time, like the time this happened.
Don't you think if this was something that was taught by upper classmen, that it would have come out more than 1 time?
This is not something that is taught in the Corps. Are you okay mentally?
Once again, when I called this out a pushing an agenda, I was obviously correct.
When did the tradition of kidnapping CO's stop? How did fish learn about that complete waste of time? It's definitely learned behavior. Same as my children's high school shenanigans.
I have no agenda other than seeing the CoC improve and glad that A&M CoC exists. The CoC needs to do better. Maybe the bulls should be given a larger role of supervision and training of the outfits to avoid continuing embarrassing hazing.
I agree with most of what you wrote but I do want to offer a different perspective on BG Ramirez. I've had the opportunity to spend many hours with him over several years while he was Commandant.valvemonkey91 said:
The Corps has been in decline for a while (and I'm not talking about numbers). It was taken out from under of the ROTC umbrella years ago and is now considered a "student organization" no different than the math club. It is subject to Title IX bull**** and discipline metered out by studemt life that is as woke as it gets. Co-Ed dorms are an awful idea and should not exist. The corps SHOULD be trying to prepare MEN for military Service and not be this social experiment that it has become. The head of the snake is John Sharp. Ramirez was a woke idiot too.
I assure you that he loves Texas A&M and the Corps of Cadets. I'll also share that unless you're in that kind of role, you have no idea about the forces in play who want to just end the Corps of Cadets completely.
I certainly don't agree with every decision he made, but, he is one of the most savvy people I've ever met. He is able to see the moving parts in three dimensions and make adjustments. Most people can't do either.
Now back to the OP topic gigantic - Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
They'd be better off starting about June 20th for 8 weeks of Corps of Cadets Basic Training before school starts.
If you are C/O 12 then you are long removed from the days when the Trigon had nothing to do w/ picking outfit leadership and staff. This started my senior year w/ bulls blessing candidates for 1st butt, and junior staff. As me and most of my buddies were d&c, we figured this was mostly about filling the ranks w/ contract cadets. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is entirely decided in the Trigon now.
While there was some resentment toward staff especially, 1st butts and co's were respected. What you are describing seems more widespread. I believe the change from picking your successor has created this widespread resentment.
I also understand that they have commonly placed rising sophomores as 1st butts of other outfits. Co's too.
From that point on, old army really did die. The Corps was no longer "student run" and "student led"...
While there was some resentment toward staff especially, 1st butts and co's were respected. What you are describing seems more widespread. I believe the change from picking your successor has created this widespread resentment.
I also understand that they have commonly placed rising sophomores as 1st butts of other outfits. Co's too.
From that point on, old army really did die. The Corps was no longer "student run" and "student led"...
Our pissheads didn't drop handles w/ us until the morning of final review.
At the swine center no less...
At the swine center no less...
It's a problem because people join the Corps for the Leadership Training and experience and the bond you develop with your buddies. 23 of us started and 10 made it to graduation in my class in my outfit. We are in each other's weddings. Our kids call the other buddies "Uncle". Out of that 10 all of us have had success in life. 8 are married and no divorces. 5 of us have kids at A&M currently. 4 went in the military and all were very successful, one retired with a Star on his shoulder. When we together (which is often) it's like we are all kids again telling stories and giving each other unending crap.Maroon Dawn said:
Need a Corps person to explain this better to the rest of us. What is happening and why is it a problem?
Why is that? We went through a tremendously stressful and difficult Freshman year together and not all of us made it through. The ones that did grew tremendously and found out a hell of a lot about ourselves and most of all we did it together. We were punished together and we succeeded together. We took incredible pride in our outfit and it defined our experience 100 times more than simply being in the Corps.
Can't truly define it or explain it to someone who didn't experience it.
The real key is half the folks in the Corps aren't taking contracts. They do it for the experience not as a means to an end. Folks who are taking contracts can go do ROTC a hundred other places and it's a lot easier. They go to A&M for the Corps and that experience.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
Ronald Reagan
Ronald Reagan
There have always been bad outfits. Fix the problem and have them model after the good outfits. That's how they have done it for 100 years. This solution destroys the good outfits.BQZip01 said:"A problem that doesn't exist"Fuzzy Dunlop said:
Here's my take:
This is all BS. As many of you have already stated, he's solving a problem that doesn't exist. Retention is one thing but trying to retain everyone is not what is needed. This is a feel good inclusion move. fish life is hard and that is what made my time in the Corps worth it. When my buddies and I get together, most of our stories are about fish year. Yeah, there's a few stories of being pissheads or roaming the steam tunnels when we were Butts and Zips but 97% of the stories are the crap outs, hall parties, 3x5 come-bys, current events at chow, our rivalry with L-1, etc.
He's blaming the sophomores for not being ready to lead but in reality, it's the Trigon's fault for not having then ready. Actually, pissheads aren't ready until the 2nd semester anyway. Some of our worst crap outs were as pissheads.
I think part of the outfit culture problem started when they rotating leadership positions and taking 1st Sgts and COs from one outfit and moving then to another. I understand that was not his initiative but I don't think this change will fix the "problem."
1. Outfit culture IS a problem when cadets actively flaunt the rules saying "our outfit doesn't do that".
2. A system that leads to outfit culture like this needs massive reform: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/education/article/texas-am-hazing-lawsuit-cadets-18550232.php
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
Ronald Reagan
Ronald Reagan
HollywoodBQ said:valvemonkey91 said:
The Corps has been in decline for a while (and I'm not talking about numbers). It was taken out from under of the ROTC umbrella years ago and is now considered a "student organization" no different than the math club. It is subject to Title IX bull**** and discipline metered out by studemt life that is as woke as it gets. Co-Ed dorms are an awful idea and should not exist. The corps SHOULD be trying to prepare MEN for military Service and not be this social experiment that it has become. The head of the snake is John Sharp. Ramirez was a woke idiot too.
Now back to the OP topic gigantic - Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
They'd be better off starting about June 20th for 8 weeks of Corps of Cadets Basic Training before school starts.
Concur, this is the one area where following the service academies model would work well.
The problem appears to be Corps-wide and Outfit Culture is the root of it. You cannot force bad outfits to become good without shaking things up. I highly doubt that a unit without fish for 4 weeks will "destroy the good outfits"aggie93 said:There have always been bad outfits. Fix the problem and have them model after the good outfits. That's how they have done it for 100 years. This solution destroys the good outfits.BQZip01 said:"A problem that doesn't exist"Fuzzy Dunlop said:
Here's my take:
This is all BS. As many of you have already stated, he's solving a problem that doesn't exist. Retention is one thing but trying to retain everyone is not what is needed. This is a feel good inclusion move. fish life is hard and that is what made my time in the Corps worth it. When my buddies and I get together, most of our stories are about fish year. Yeah, there's a few stories of being pissheads or roaming the steam tunnels when we were Butts and Zips but 97% of the stories are the crap outs, hall parties, 3x5 come-bys, current events at chow, our rivalry with L-1, etc.
He's blaming the sophomores for not being ready to lead but in reality, it's the Trigon's fault for not having then ready. Actually, pissheads aren't ready until the 2nd semester anyway. Some of our worst crap outs were as pissheads.
I think part of the outfit culture problem started when they rotating leadership positions and taking 1st Sgts and COs from one outfit and moving then to another. I understand that was not his initiative but I don't think this change will fix the "problem."
1. Outfit culture IS a problem when cadets actively flaunt the rules saying "our outfit doesn't do that".
2. A system that leads to outfit culture like this needs massive reform: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/education/article/texas-am-hazing-lawsuit-cadets-18550232.php
Where are you getting 4 weeks?BQZip01 said:The problem appears to be Corps-wide and Outfit Culture is the root of it. You cannot force bad outfits to become good without shaking things up. I highly doubt that a unit without fish for 4 weeks will "destroy the good outfits"aggie93 said:There have always been bad outfits. Fix the problem and have them model after the good outfits. That's how they have done it for 100 years. This solution destroys the good outfits.BQZip01 said:"A problem that doesn't exist"Fuzzy Dunlop said:
Here's my take:
This is all BS. As many of you have already stated, he's solving a problem that doesn't exist. Retention is one thing but trying to retain everyone is not what is needed. This is a feel good inclusion move. fish life is hard and that is what made my time in the Corps worth it. When my buddies and I get together, most of our stories are about fish year. Yeah, there's a few stories of being pissheads or roaming the steam tunnels when we were Butts and Zips but 97% of the stories are the crap outs, hall parties, 3x5 come-bys, current events at chow, our rivalry with L-1, etc.
He's blaming the sophomores for not being ready to lead but in reality, it's the Trigon's fault for not having then ready. Actually, pissheads aren't ready until the 2nd semester anyway. Some of our worst crap outs were as pissheads.
I think part of the outfit culture problem started when they rotating leadership positions and taking 1st Sgts and COs from one outfit and moving then to another. I understand that was not his initiative but I don't think this change will fix the "problem."
1. Outfit culture IS a problem when cadets actively flaunt the rules saying "our outfit doesn't do that".
2. A system that leads to outfit culture like this needs massive reform: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/education/article/texas-am-hazing-lawsuit-cadets-18550232.php
It is 8 weeks with no fish in the outfit, so that is from mid August, all September, 1/2 October. All the fish are together and no outfit training is happening at all cause they are not separated at all.
Then after that (mid Oct - 3rd week Nov) about 4-5 weeks with fish (living separately) and attending outfit training areas in random hallways on certain days. So they have zero outfit contact for 8 full weeks (really 9 when you figure in FOW). Then another 4-5 weeks where they see upperclassmen maybe 2 hours per day, 4 to 5 days per week. Then Thankgiving, come back for finals, and home for Xmas break for a month.
Might as well go to school at a regular ROTC program at UH or the like. That is not a Corps experience.
Then you weren't in a good outfit. Sorry. An good outfit builds that sense of pride and loyalty to the outfit and makes every person in it want to represent it and be the best as a team.BQZip01 said:The problem appears to be Corps-wide and Outfit Culture is the root of it. You cannot force bad outfits to become good without shaking things up. I highly doubt that a unit without fish for 4 weeks will "destroy the good outfits"aggie93 said:There have always been bad outfits. Fix the problem and have them model after the good outfits. That's how they have done it for 100 years. This solution destroys the good outfits.BQZip01 said:"A problem that doesn't exist"Fuzzy Dunlop said:
Here's my take:
This is all BS. As many of you have already stated, he's solving a problem that doesn't exist. Retention is one thing but trying to retain everyone is not what is needed. This is a feel good inclusion move. fish life is hard and that is what made my time in the Corps worth it. When my buddies and I get together, most of our stories are about fish year. Yeah, there's a few stories of being pissheads or roaming the steam tunnels when we were Butts and Zips but 97% of the stories are the crap outs, hall parties, 3x5 come-bys, current events at chow, our rivalry with L-1, etc.
He's blaming the sophomores for not being ready to lead but in reality, it's the Trigon's fault for not having then ready. Actually, pissheads aren't ready until the 2nd semester anyway. Some of our worst crap outs were as pissheads.
I think part of the outfit culture problem started when they rotating leadership positions and taking 1st Sgts and COs from one outfit and moving then to another. I understand that was not his initiative but I don't think this change will fix the "problem."
1. Outfit culture IS a problem when cadets actively flaunt the rules saying "our outfit doesn't do that".
2. A system that leads to outfit culture like this needs massive reform: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/education/article/texas-am-hazing-lawsuit-cadets-18550232.php
BTW another big problem with this idea is it basically abdicates the responsibility to have every member of an outfit feel a sense of responsibility to train the one behind you.
It's also not "Corps wide" as a problem. There are absolutely good outfits in the Corps today. A big part of the problem is the Bulls trying to bring the good outfits down instead of building the bad outfits up. They aren't focused on developing leaders and this system will only make that worse.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
Ronald Reagan
Ronald Reagan
I am not shocked people are bringing up hazing incidents as a reason to fundamentally change the corps.
Hazing and assault is unacceptable, but it's a time to publicly make an example of the bad apples, not a time to rip apart the fabric of our organization.
We made kids do push-ups in their rooms. Nothing like sexual assault for punishment ever happened in my time in the corps.
I'm thankful many of the older Ags and leadership back in the day weren't as knee jerk as some of our criticizers now.
Hazing and assault is unacceptable, but it's a time to publicly make an example of the bad apples, not a time to rip apart the fabric of our organization.
We made kids do push-ups in their rooms. Nothing like sexual assault for punishment ever happened in my time in the corps.
I'm thankful many of the older Ags and leadership back in the day weren't as knee jerk as some of our criticizers now.
Fish will be prancing around with all that NIL without the Pissheads keeping them in check.
All this means is you just get crapped out more as sophomore when the bulls don't care about you anymore.
Your daughter went to VMI...how did they train/integrate the rats?
plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Quote:
When did the tradition of kidnapping CO's stop?
I know when and why. It had nothing to do with upperclassmen failing to train. It had to do with some red ass fish that went a little too far.
OK, maybe way too far, but it was fun and the legend lives on.
Double Talkin' Jive...
Too long to read all the replies but it made me think of my Dad and uncle talking about how they thought the Corps was coming to an end. This discussion was in the 1960s when the Corps became non-compulsory. They were less sure then because they also thought it was falling apart when the fish were at Bryan Air Field circa 1947 or so instead of in the dorms.
Quote:
They'd be better off starting about June 20th for 8 weeks of Corps of Cadets Basic Training before school starts.
That's what the academies do, and an option I'm sure has been mulled over by A&M....but who pays for it? What upperclassmen will (or can) assist? Would having a mandatory fish orientation summer be a huge negative to recruiting?
plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Please read the Commandant's actual planaggiez03 said:Where are you getting 4 weeks?BQZip01 said:The problem appears to be Corps-wide and Outfit Culture is the root of it. You cannot force bad outfits to become good without shaking things up. I highly doubt that a unit without fish for 4 weeks will "destroy the good outfits"aggie93 said:There have always been bad outfits. Fix the problem and have them model after the good outfits. That's how they have done it for 100 years. This solution destroys the good outfits.BQZip01 said:"A problem that doesn't exist"Fuzzy Dunlop said:
Here's my take:
This is all BS. As many of you have already stated, he's solving a problem that doesn't exist. Retention is one thing but trying to retain everyone is not what is needed. This is a feel good inclusion move. fish life is hard and that is what made my time in the Corps worth it. When my buddies and I get together, most of our stories are about fish year. Yeah, there's a few stories of being pissheads or roaming the steam tunnels when we were Butts and Zips but 97% of the stories are the crap outs, hall parties, 3x5 come-bys, current events at chow, our rivalry with L-1, etc.
He's blaming the sophomores for not being ready to lead but in reality, it's the Trigon's fault for not having then ready. Actually, pissheads aren't ready until the 2nd semester anyway. Some of our worst crap outs were as pissheads.
I think part of the outfit culture problem started when they rotating leadership positions and taking 1st Sgts and COs from one outfit and moving then to another. I understand that was not his initiative but I don't think this change will fix the "problem."
1. Outfit culture IS a problem when cadets actively flaunt the rules saying "our outfit doesn't do that".
2. A system that leads to outfit culture like this needs massive reform: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/education/article/texas-am-hazing-lawsuit-cadets-18550232.php
It is 8 weeks with no fish in the outfit, so that is from mid August, all September, 1/2 October. All the fish are together and no outfit training is happening at all cause they are not separated at all.
Then after that (mid Oct - 3rd week Nov) about 4-5 weeks with fish (living separately) and attending outfit training areas in random hallways on certain days. So they have zero outfit contact for 8 full weeks (really 9 when you figure in FOW). Then another 4-5 weeks where they see upperclassmen maybe 2 hours per day, 4 to 5 days per week. Then Thankgiving, come back for finals, and home for Xmas break for a month.
Might as well go to school at a regular ROTC program at UH or the like. That is not a Corps experience.
1. He has it at "5-6 weeks" including FOW which is about 2 weeks now. That means about 4 academic weeks.
2. "All the fish are together" nope. They are with staff selected from the major units
3. "no outfit training is happening" You're right. CORPS training is happening. That's the point. They don't need to be embedded in an outfit to learn how to be a cadet. The idea that they will not be a good cadet unless they are YOUR cadet is an anathema to good order and discipline, which is lacking.
4. I've seen other ROTC units...this is NOTHING like it.
You realize that this is the way ALL the Service Academies do it, right?HollywoodBQ said:Take a look at Virginia Tech and VMI too.JB!98 said:
Naval Academy is sounding better and better for my class of '30 son. We were leaning that direction anyway.
Great. How do you propose to "fix the problem"?aggie93 said:There have always been bad outfits. Fix the problem and have them model after the good outfits. That's how they have done it for 100 years. This solution destroys the good outfits.BQZip01 said:"A problem that doesn't exist"Fuzzy Dunlop said:
Here's my take:
This is all BS. As many of you have already stated, he's solving a problem that doesn't exist. Retention is one thing but trying to retain everyone is not what is needed. This is a feel good inclusion move. fish life is hard and that is what made my time in the Corps worth it. When my buddies and I get together, most of our stories are about fish year. Yeah, there's a few stories of being pissheads or roaming the steam tunnels when we were Butts and Zips but 97% of the stories are the crap outs, hall parties, 3x5 come-bys, current events at chow, our rivalry with L-1, etc.
He's blaming the sophomores for not being ready to lead but in reality, it's the Trigon's fault for not having then ready. Actually, pissheads aren't ready until the 2nd semester anyway. Some of our worst crap outs were as pissheads.
I think part of the outfit culture problem started when they rotating leadership positions and taking 1st Sgts and COs from one outfit and moving then to another. I understand that was not his initiative but I don't think this change will fix the "problem."
1. Outfit culture IS a problem when cadets actively flaunt the rules saying "our outfit doesn't do that".
2. A system that leads to outfit culture like this needs massive reform: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/education/article/texas-am-hazing-lawsuit-cadets-18550232.php
Saying it that simplistically ignores the real logistical challenges
Actually, this isn't all that bad of an idea to offer as an optional program. I know my son would jump at the chanceThe Kraken said:Quote:
They'd be better off starting about June 20th for 8 weeks of Corps of Cadets Basic Training before school starts.
That's what the academies do, and an option I'm sure has been mulled over by A&M....but who pays for it? What upperclassmen will (or can) assist? Would having a mandatory fish orientation summer be a huge negative to recruiting?
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