BigRobSA said:Ag with kids said:Quote:
A number of years back I sold a 6 year old Macbook that had a cracked screened and fried motherboard from a glass of water being poured on it (I love my children, I love my children). I got $350 for it on Ebay.
At least there is some decent resale value with Macs...Not without the HD I pulled out, they didn't.Quote:
And they got ALL of your pr0n. Every mpeg.
That was some good pr0n. Not giving it away.
Good man!
Medaggie said:
Anyone who says its a golf cart just shows their bias and ignorance.
The goal of musk was to make EVs get to parity.
When a comparable EV (i.e. model Y to Lexus) had the model Y 20%+ more expensive, haters said it would never sale b/c its too high. A glorified golf cart with many flaws for 20% more than a Lexus.
When a Tesla lowers their prices 20-40%, haters now said they can't sell them so they must lower their price.
So what do haters want? Tesla will be cheaper than ICE cars within 2-3 years for a comparable car. What are they going to say then?
If the Chinese EVs ever come to the US, ICE will be dead. EVs are much simpler to make, maintain, and will be much cheaper to buy. I don't see how ICE will survive because when battery costs go down and can prove to last 300K miles (I think they are there), price/costs will win out.
Quote:
America's EV boom goes bust! Lithium and nickel producers begin mass layoffs and pause multi-billion-dollar projects as US says no to electric car push
- Lithium mines have closed and employees are laid off as demands for EVs drop
- More Americans turned to hybrid vehicles last year than EVs
By NIKKI MAIN SCIENCE REPORTER FOR DAILYMAIL.COM
PUBLISHED: 14:39 EST, 19 February 2024 | UPDATED: 16:18 EST, 19 February 2024
Americans were sold the promise that electric vehicles would bring production companies and an influx of jobs to small towns nationwide as part of a modern day goldrush.
However, as interest in EVs has slipped, lithium and nickel facilities metals used in lithium-ion batteries for electric vehicles are taking cost-cutting measures including mass layoffs and suspending operations.
The demand for electric vehicles surged in 2022, rising by 76 percent in April of that year, but by the end of 2023, the number of vehicles sold dropped to just 50 percent.......
Sales rising by 50% is just horrific.WolfCall said:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-13100353/Slipping-EV-demand-forces-lithium-facilities-pause-production.html
The demand for electric vehicles surged in 2022, rising by 76 percent in April of that year, but by the end of 2023, the number of vehicles sold dropped to just 50 percent.......
Sales falling by 26% is good?Bubblez said:Sales rising by 50% is just horrific.WolfCall said:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-13100353/Slipping-EV-demand-forces-lithium-facilities-pause-production.html
The demand for electric vehicles surged in 2022, rising by 76 percent in April of that year, but by the end of 2023, the number of vehicles sold dropped to just 50 percent.......
techno-ag said:Sales falling by 26% is good?Bubblez said:Sales rising by 50% is just horrific.WolfCall said:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-13100353/Slipping-EV-demand-forces-lithium-facilities-pause-production.html
The demand for electric vehicles surged in 2022, rising by 76 percent in April of that year, but by the end of 2023, the number of vehicles sold dropped to just 50 percent.......
If sales growth has slowed, they're not selling as many anymore?GAC06 said:techno-ag said:Sales falling by 26% is good?Bubblez said:Sales rising by 50% is just horrific.WolfCall said:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-13100353/Slipping-EV-demand-forces-lithium-facilities-pause-production.html
The demand for electric vehicles surged in 2022, rising by 76 percent in April of that year, but by the end of 2023, the number of vehicles sold dropped to just 50 percent.......
Sales growth has slowed. Sales have not fallen.
So, they're selling fewer cars, but more than ever. I think I got it.GAC06 said:
No. They are selling more than before. The growth has slowed. Do you seriously not grasp this?
CowboyGirl said:
I heard an industry person speaking about the long-term supply chain for producing EVs and according to this person, the plan is for automakers to basically recycle your car, not resell it. They are counting on being able to reclaim/recycle the materials that are in the old vehicle to sustain the production of the new vehicles. So dealers will buy back your used car but they generally won't resell it.
Long term the auto market would be new EVs for those who can afford them and public transit for those who can't. I personally plan to drive my ICE vehicle like a Cuban.
GAC06 said:
They are selling more EV's than before. Literally more than ever. Sales are growing. The growth rate has slowed as of late. I don't know how I can make it plainer than that.
It's really simple. The average person can't rely on an EV. Until that changes, they will never displace ICEs.Medaggie said:
Anyone who says its a golf cart just shows their bias and ignorance.
The goal of musk was to make EVs get to parity.
When a comparable EV (i.e. model Y to Lexus) had the model Y 20%+ more expensive, haters said it would never sale b/c its too high. A glorified golf cart with many flaws for 20% more than a Lexus.
When a Tesla lowers their prices 20-40%, haters now said they can't sell them so they must lower their price.
So what do haters want? Tesla will be cheaper than ICE cars within 2-3 years for a comparable car. What are they going to say then?
If the Chinese EVs ever come to the US, ICE will be dead. EVs are much simpler to make, maintain, and will be much cheaper to buy. I don't see how ICE will survive because when battery costs go down and can prove to last 300K miles (I think they are there), price/costs will win out.
VitruvianAg said:CowboyGirl said:
I heard an industry person speaking about the long-term supply chain for producing EVs and according to this person, the plan is for automakers to basically recycle your car, not resell it. They are counting on being able to reclaim/recycle the materials that are in the old vehicle to sustain the production of the new vehicles. So dealers will buy back your used car but they generally won't resell it.
Long term the auto market would be new EVs for those who can afford them and public transit for those who can't. I personally plan to drive my ICE vehicle like a Cuban.
That's nice and I feel the same way about my Jag...That said the British government is soon to enact legislation prohibiting the maintenance/repair of ICE engined cars of any sort by some not too distant time...
You think those twits in California and other democrat controlled States aren't going to do the same on these shores?
Quote:
The average person needs to be able to reliably do a round trip to/from work, with A/C in a Texas summer, or heat in a northern winter, sometimes sitting in traffic jams, maybe run a few errands on the way home, without worrying about being stranded. That's the basic usage scenario that EVs can't reliably cover, with the current recharging infrastructure.
SchizoAg said:It's really simple. The average person can't rely on an EV. Until that changes, they will never displace ICEs.Medaggie said:
Anyone who says its a golf cart just shows their bias and ignorance.
The goal of musk was to make EVs get to parity.
When a comparable EV (i.e. model Y to Lexus) had the model Y 20%+ more expensive, haters said it would never sale b/c its too high. A glorified golf cart with many flaws for 20% more than a Lexus.
When a Tesla lowers their prices 20-40%, haters now said they can't sell them so they must lower their price.
So what do haters want? Tesla will be cheaper than ICE cars within 2-3 years for a comparable car. What are they going to say then?
If the Chinese EVs ever come to the US, ICE will be dead. EVs are much simpler to make, maintain, and will be much cheaper to buy. I don't see how ICE will survive because when battery costs go down and can prove to last 300K miles (I think they are there), price/costs will win out.
The average person needs to be able to reliably do a round trip to/from work, with A/C in a Texas summer, or heat in a northern winter, sometimes sitting in traffic jams, maybe run a few errands on the way home, without worrying about being stranded. That's the basic usage scenario that EVs can't reliably cover, with the current recharging infrastructure.
They're growing… they're just growing less than before. But by golly they're growing! Ignore the fact that things are slowing down! That's not important! They're growing, don't you see.hph6203 said:GAC06 said:
They are selling more EV's than before. Literally more than ever. Sales are growing. The growth rate has slowed as of late. I don't know how I can make it plainer than that.
2021 = 1
2022 = 1 x 1.76 = 1.76
2023 = 1.76 x 1.5 = 2.64
2.64 > 1.76?
2.64 > 1.76!
Seriously. He either has a history of head injuries or he's intentionally being an irritant by pretending to have failed out of 7th grade math. Up in the air on that one, but I'd lean towards he's not throwing his hat in the ring for an Oscar. He has trouble with the concept of past, present and future too.
GAC06 said:
That's also assuming that you'd need to replace the battery at 120k which isn't a safe assumption
Yes. People who own their own home and can afford to also have at least one real car for serious driving. For the rest of you, it's mass transit, comrades.Bubblez said:SchizoAg said:It's really simple. The average person can't rely on an EV. Until that changes, they will never displace ICEs.Medaggie said:
Anyone who says its a golf cart just shows their bias and ignorance.
The goal of musk was to make EVs get to parity.
When a comparable EV (i.e. model Y to Lexus) had the model Y 20%+ more expensive, haters said it would never sale b/c its too high. A glorified golf cart with many flaws for 20% more than a Lexus.
When a Tesla lowers their prices 20-40%, haters now said they can't sell them so they must lower their price.
So what do haters want? Tesla will be cheaper than ICE cars within 2-3 years for a comparable car. What are they going to say then?
If the Chinese EVs ever come to the US, ICE will be dead. EVs are much simpler to make, maintain, and will be much cheaper to buy. I don't see how ICE will survive because when battery costs go down and can prove to last 300K miles (I think they are there), price/costs will win out.
The average person needs to be able to reliably do a round trip to/from work, with A/C in a Texas summer, or heat in a northern winter, sometimes sitting in traffic jams, maybe run a few errands on the way home, without worrying about being stranded. That's the basic usage scenario that EVs can't reliably cover, with the current recharging infrastructure.
An EV can handle the vast majority of use cases for commuters living in a single family home or otherwise have access to a reliable place to charge up at a frequency related to their commute length. That doesn't have to be nightly.
When you sell 2 this year, 3 is a 50% increase.Bubblez said:Sales rising by 50% is just horrific.WolfCall said:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-13100353/Slipping-EV-demand-forces-lithium-facilities-pause-production.html
The demand for electric vehicles surged in 2022, rising by 76 percent in April of that year, but by the end of 2023, the number of vehicles sold dropped to just 50 percent.......
AND...they need to be able to do that after they completely forgot to charge last night, so they didn't top it up. And they're late for work so they can't stop to charge it on the way home because they don't have 15-20 extra min.SchizoAg said:It's really simple. The average person can't rely on an EV. Until that changes, they will never displace ICEs.Medaggie said:
Anyone who says its a golf cart just shows their bias and ignorance.
The goal of musk was to make EVs get to parity.
When a comparable EV (i.e. model Y to Lexus) had the model Y 20%+ more expensive, haters said it would never sale b/c its too high. A glorified golf cart with many flaws for 20% more than a Lexus.
When a Tesla lowers their prices 20-40%, haters now said they can't sell them so they must lower their price.
So what do haters want? Tesla will be cheaper than ICE cars within 2-3 years for a comparable car. What are they going to say then?
If the Chinese EVs ever come to the US, ICE will be dead. EVs are much simpler to make, maintain, and will be much cheaper to buy. I don't see how ICE will survive because when battery costs go down and can prove to last 300K miles (I think they are there), price/costs will win out.
The average person needs to be able to reliably do a round trip to/from work, with A/C in a Texas summer, or heat in a northern winter, sometimes sitting in traffic jams, maybe run a few errands on the way home, without worrying about being stranded. That's the basic usage scenario that EVs can't reliably cover, with the current recharging infrastructure.
So all those people saying they need new batteries at fewer miles than that are lying.hph6203 said:
That is him. Watch the video and you'll see he got 315,000 miles on one battery and 405,000 miles on another battery.
The drivetrain replacements were likely refurbished because he paid for literally none of those repairs as Tesla had an unlimited mileage warranty for 8 years on those vehicles. He is the outlier in terms of warranty claims.
As he points out in that video the early Model S vehicles had issues with drivetrain longevity and the later models have resolved that problem. It's why there's an example I posted earlier of a person who has driven 500,000 miles on both the original battery and original drivetrain.
My point is that as of right now, because of when these vehicles were launched there's very little reliable info on longevity of batteries because most vehicles have not hit those higher mileages. Of those that have some of them are owned by dip****s that routinely supercharge to 90% capacity.
Some people will swear they'll last 500,000 miles, some will swear it's 120,000 because that's when the warranty expires. My guess is that the norm experience is going to be the battery lasting into the 250,000+ mile range and the drive train failing sometime before that.
Charge cycles are improving over time and there's reason for that to be put into cars, because starting this year/next year more and more models are going to have the capacity to operate as a backup to your home/the grid normalize demand curves with production.
So...where is the real DATA then. Not your screenshots.hph6203 said:
No, but with anything there's variation in manufacturing and failures occur quicker than expected. That's what a warranty is for.
This is a discussion of norms, not anecdotes. There are anecdotes on the high side and the low side and the truth of the norm is somewhere in between. There's also people that are dumbasses that don't take care of their vehicles and do dip**** stuff like super charge their cars to 90% every time they charge it and wonder why their battery didn't last like the dumbass Uber driver that's been posted on this forum multiple times.
Hint: He is net losing time by waiting for the car to charge from 80% to 90% rather than leaving at 80%, doing trips and then coming back at 10% and charging to 80%. And he's not paying to destroy his car in the process.
It's the equivalent of a person whining about their car dying while never doing routine maintenance. I'm not in to using the moron for the standard of design.
Kind of like you thinking the hypothetical "I forgot to charge my car" is a compelling argument when that would typically require the person to forget to charge their car for a week straight and even in that event they can go to a Supercharger and get 70 miles in 5 minutes rather than your hypothetical waiting around for 20.
Somehow people become universally bumfuzzling stupid when it comes to EVs and we must protect them. Where in every other avenue of life your attitude is undoubtedly stupid wins stupid prizes.
Ag with kids said:So...where is the real DATA then. Not your screenshots.hph6203 said:
No, but with anything there's variation in manufacturing and failures occur quicker than expected. That's what a warranty is for.
This is a discussion of norms, not anecdotes. There are anecdotes on the high side and the low side and the truth of the norm is somewhere in between. There's also people that are dumbasses that don't take care of their vehicles and do dip**** stuff like super charge their cars to 90% every time they charge it and wonder why their battery didn't last like the dumbass Uber driver that's been posted on this forum multiple times.
Hint: He is net losing time by waiting for the car to charge from 80% to 90% rather than leaving at 80%, doing trips and then coming back at 10% and charging to 80%. And he's not paying to destroy his car in the process.
It's the equivalent of a person whining about their car dying while never doing routine maintenance. I'm not in to using the moron for the standard of design.
Kind of like you thinking the hypothetical "I forgot to charge my car" is a compelling argument when that would typically require the person to forget to charge their car for a week straight and even in that event they can go to a Supercharger and get 70 miles in 5 minutes rather than your hypothetical waiting around for 20.
Somehow people become universally bumfuzzling stupid when it comes to EVs and we must protect them. Where in every other avenue of life your attitude is undoubtedly stupid wins stupid prizes.
And, see, this is where your fanboi stuff is annoying. You handwave away REAL LIFE issues.
People forget - A LOT. But then, they'll just go to a Supercharger....you mean the ONE Supercharger in Corpus Christi that's at La Palmera Mall? What if I live on the Island (I do) and need to get to work on the Bluff (I do)? I now have to drive 10 min PAST work to get to this Supercharger to then turn around and get back to work....but, wait...my car was almost dead back there on the Island. How did I get to the Supercharger???
If you'd actually acknowledge that real world issues exist and the world isn't your unicorn fart utopia, you might find people would listen to you more often instead of dismissing you outright.
I'm not even opposed to EVs (they're the future in my business, well, eVTOLs, but same concept) and you make me dislike them.
I live in a city of 350K people. (the island is an awesome bonus)Bubblez said:Ag with kids said:So...where is the real DATA then. Not your screenshots.hph6203 said:
No, but with anything there's variation in manufacturing and failures occur quicker than expected. That's what a warranty is for.
This is a discussion of norms, not anecdotes. There are anecdotes on the high side and the low side and the truth of the norm is somewhere in between. There's also people that are dumbasses that don't take care of their vehicles and do dip**** stuff like super charge their cars to 90% every time they charge it and wonder why their battery didn't last like the dumbass Uber driver that's been posted on this forum multiple times.
Hint: He is net losing time by waiting for the car to charge from 80% to 90% rather than leaving at 80%, doing trips and then coming back at 10% and charging to 80%. And he's not paying to destroy his car in the process.
It's the equivalent of a person whining about their car dying while never doing routine maintenance. I'm not in to using the moron for the standard of design.
Kind of like you thinking the hypothetical "I forgot to charge my car" is a compelling argument when that would typically require the person to forget to charge their car for a week straight and even in that event they can go to a Supercharger and get 70 miles in 5 minutes rather than your hypothetical waiting around for 20.
Somehow people become universally bumfuzzling stupid when it comes to EVs and we must protect them. Where in every other avenue of life your attitude is undoubtedly stupid wins stupid prizes.
And, see, this is where your fanboi stuff is annoying. You handwave away REAL LIFE issues.
People forget - A LOT. But then, they'll just go to a Supercharger....you mean the ONE Supercharger in Corpus Christi that's at La Palmera Mall? What if I live on the Island (I do) and need to get to work on the Bluff (I do)? I now have to drive 10 min PAST work to get to this Supercharger to then turn around and get back to work....but, wait...my car was almost dead back there on the Island. How did I get to the Supercharger???
If you'd actually acknowledge that real world issues exist and the world isn't your unicorn fart utopia, you might find people would listen to you more often instead of dismissing you outright.
I'm not even opposed to EVs (they're the future in my business, well, eVTOLs, but same concept) and you make me dislike them.
Your situation of living on an island is rather unique, like those unicorn farts you bring up. That doesn't mean EV work perfectly for the majority of commuters today. And the supercharger network as it appears today will have no resemblance to what we'll see even 1 year from now.
