Ford cuts planned 2024 production of electric F-150 Lightning in half https://www.cnbc.com/2023/12/11/f-150-lightning-ford-cuts-2024-production-plans-in-half.html?__source=iosappshare%7Ccom.apple.UIKit.activity.CopyToPasteboard

China won't be happy about this

Muy said:

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China won't be happy about this

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I'm sure Elon will be joining China's tear fest when he hears about this.

Logos Stick said:

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Well, dang. EV reality has come plummeting to earth.

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Wrong

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2023/12/u-s-ev-sales-surpass-1-million-units-for-the-first-time/

They have raided most or the Automotive corporate funds already. Capital for EV cars, and salary raises for union on gas cars. They will move on to the next industry and circle back to the car industry after capitalism figures out the best way to meet the standards (hydrogen, Hybrid, etc)

Oil industry's cash balances up next with sequestration. Move from Red oil workers to blue green projects.

fka ftc said:

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I think they chose a poor spokesperson for its introduction.

Maybe Kamala's endorsement would have worked better?

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When my dad started showing early signs of dementia, he managed to total his car by driving it through a neighbor's bedroom. We didn't let him drive again, obviously. Yet Xiden's handlers think it a good idea to allow this drooling bozo to get behind the wheel of anything bigger than a Big Wheel?

HollywoodBQ said:

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Compare and contrast:
I've only seen 3 of the EV Lightning F-150s on the road, ever.

Meanwhile, Ford can't seem to keep up with production of 6G Broncos. Even coming out with a Bronco Raptor.

The market demand is there for one but not the other. There are only so many EV gadget guys out there.

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Hertz is likely headed right back into bankruptcy over their splurge on Teslas.

The bankruptcy accusation is mine but the financial damage to Hertz exceeds the physical damage their EV play and partnering those Musk Machines with Uber drivers has turned out poorly.

https://www.theverge.com/2023/10/27/23934691/hertz-tesla-uber-ev-plans-damage-repair-price-cuts

Logos Stick said:

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Well, dang. EV reality has come plummeting to earth.

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As the risk of doing someone's job for them, I'll remind you this is a brand problem and not indicative of EVs as a whole.

Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

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fka ftc said:

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I think they chose a poor spokesperson for its introduction.

Maybe Kamala's endorsement would have worked better?

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When my dad started showing early signs of dementia, he managed to total his car by driving it through a neighbor's bedroom. We didn't let him drive again, obviously. Yet Xiden's handlers think it a good idea to allow this drooling bozo to get behind the wheel of anything bigger than a Big Wheel?

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Surely the guy in the passenger seat or one of the Ford observers had a hand on the kill switch.

HollywoodBQ said:

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Compare and contrast:
I've only seen 3 of the EV Lightning F-150s on the road, ever.

Meanwhile, Ford can't seem to keep up with production of 6G Broncos. Even coming out with a Bronco Raptor.

The market demand is there for one but not the other. There are only so many EV gadget guys out there.

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Ford seemed to do a Bud Light with the F-150 Lightning. At least from what I've experienced in my lifetime, your typical F-150 owner isn't going to be confused for a Whole Foods shopping Starbucks drinking tree hugger. So while the Lightning generated buzz, I never saw how it was going to be selling anywhere near other EVs, much less a Tesla.

Logos Stick said:

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Well, dang. EV reality has come plummeting to earth.

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I don't know about EV in general but there is ZERO reason to buy an EV Ford or GM. They have never got their **** together on ICE vehicles, why trust them on EVs?

No Spin Ag said:

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HollywoodBQ said:

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Compare and contrast:
I've only seen 3 of the EV Lightning F-150s on the road, ever.

Meanwhile, Ford can't seem to keep up with production of 6G Broncos. Even coming out with a Bronco Raptor.

The market demand is there for one but not the other. There are only so many EV gadget guys out there.

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Ford seemed to do a Bud Light with the F-150 Lightning. At least from what I've experienced in my lifetime, your typical F-150 owner isn't going to be confused for a Whole Foods shopping Starbucks drinking tree hugger. So while the Lightning generated buzz, I never saw how it was going to be selling anywhere near other EVs, much less a Tesla.

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I thought it stood a chance because it looked relatively like a normal pickup. And the way most people use a truck as a grocery getter or a commuter car, it will probably work just fine. But then that one YouTube channel (Hoovie's Garage?) tried to tow boat with one. I think that killed any buzz it ever had.

torrid said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Well, dang. EV reality has come plummeting to earth.

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As the risk of doing someone's job for them, I'll remind you this is a brand problem and not indicative of EVs as a whole.

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Yep, but they won't get that.

deddog said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Well, dang. EV reality has come plummeting to earth.

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I don't know about EV in general but there is ZERO reason to buy an EV Ford or GM. They have never got their **** together on ICE vehicles, why trust them on EVs?

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EVs prices under $50,000 are probably going to be fine. Trying to pitch an EV truck over $75,000 is going to be a tough sell for both Tesla and Ford.

They completely misunderstand their customer, not unlike Budweiser did for the typical drinker.

I'm not an EV guy but if I were I would buy a Tesla. Just a far superior product than other EV's. Tesla is doing just fine but many others simply aren't selling. People do like hybrids though and if companies were smart that's where they would focus. I'm looking at getting a Tundra in the next couple of years and considered their hybrid btw but it doesn't seem to really help much with gas mileage with the price increase so they still haven't figured out how to make it work on heavy vehicles, it really just gives it a power boost.

If I still needed a commuter car I'd definitely love a hybrid and would consider a Tesla. Both my wife and I WFH though so it makes no sense for me. I also have my sons driving older F150s because I have already been to 2 funerals for kids who graduated in my son's HS class from car accidents (have a Ranch Hand on one and will probably put one on the other). They both paid for about half and will get to keep them. They both also like to hunt and fish and mountain bike so trucks just make a lot more sense. Makes me rest a lot better thinking about my son driving 4 hours home from college.

Cybertruck is cool but it's a pavement princess. I couldn't care less about being a race car or being bulletproof. I want the ability to find fuel anywhere and to be able to get over rougher terrain and I like a truck to look like a truck.

These stats don't include Tesla:

JUST IN — Average days on lot by vehicle type:

EVs: 72 days
ICE: 57 days
Hybrid: 39 days (!)

Hybrids are *extremely* hot right now.

(Data from sponsoring partner @FullpathCDXP)

— Car Dealership Guy (@GuyDealership) December 8, 2023

They're going to have to re-engineer the truck because what they put out from a battery perspective is just bad.

Their truck takes a minimum of 36 minutes to charge 15-80%, with the extended range taking 41 minutes. Compare that to a Cybertruck that takes ~30 minutes on a 250 kW charger and ~18-20 minutes on a 350 kW charger.

Then consider that next year every truck is going to ultimately need to have an adapter to charge long term and you can see why they might not want to get out over their skis.

aggie93 said:

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I'm not an EV guy but if I were I would buy a Tesla. Just a far superior product than other EV's. Tesla is doing just fine but many others simply aren't selling. People do like hybrids though and if companies were smart that's where they would focus. I'm looking at getting a Tundra in the next couple of years and considered their hybrid btw but it doesn't seem to really help much with gas mileage with the price increase so they still haven't figured out how to make it work on heavy vehicles, it really just gives it a power boost.

If I still needed a commuter car I'd definitely love a hybrid and would consider a Tesla. Both my wife and I WFH though so it makes no sense for me. I also have my sons driving older F150s because I have already been to 2 funerals for kids who graduated in my son's HS class from car accidents (have a Ranch Hand on one and will probably put one on the other). They both paid for about half and will get to keep them. They both also like to hunt and fish and mountain bike so trucks just make a lot more sense. Makes me rest a lot better thinking about my son driving 4 hours home from college.

Cybertruck is cool but it's a pavement princess. I couldn't care less about being a race car or being bulletproof. I want the ability to find fuel anywhere and to be able to get over rougher terrain and I like a truck to look like a truck.

These stats don't include Tesla:

JUST IN — Average days on lot by vehicle type:

EVs: 72 days
ICE: 57 days
Hybrid: 39 days (!)

Hybrids are *extremely* hot right now.

(Data from sponsoring partner @FullpathCDXP)

— Car Dealership Guy (@GuyDealership) December 8, 2023

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Hybrids are perfect for your daily driver. You will likely never need to see a gas pump except when you go on an out of town road trip. To not have to sit at a pump for fifty, or so, weeks out of the year is a good incentive to buy a hybrid.

torrid said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Well, dang. EV reality has come plummeting to earth.

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As the risk of doing someone's job for them, I'll remind you this is a brand problem and not indicative of EVs as a whole.

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Except that so far only Tesla seems to have figured out how to put an affordable, semi-reliable vehicle out on the road. The EVs from the Big 3 are POS, and the smaller makers are crazy expensive.

No Spin Ag said:

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HollywoodBQ said:

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Compare and contrast:
I've only seen 3 of the EV Lightning F-150s on the road, ever.

Meanwhile, Ford can't seem to keep up with production of 6G Broncos. Even coming out with a Bronco Raptor.

The market demand is there for one but not the other. There are only so many EV gadget guys out there.

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Ford seemed to do a Bud Light with the F-150 Lightning. At least from what I've experienced in my lifetime, your typical F-150 owner isn't going to be confused for a Whole Foods shopping Starbucks drinking tree hugger. So while the Lightning generated buzz, I never saw how it was going to be selling anywhere near other EVs, much less a Tesla.

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They should have left it as a trade show concept car.

torrid said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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HollywoodBQ said:

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Compare and contrast:
I've only seen 3 of the EV Lightning F-150s on the road, ever.

Meanwhile, Ford can't seem to keep up with production of 6G Broncos. Even coming out with a Bronco Raptor.

The market demand is there for one but not the other. There are only so many EV gadget guys out there.

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Ford seemed to do a Bud Light with the F-150 Lightning. At least from what I've experienced in my lifetime, your typical F-150 owner isn't going to be confused for a Whole Foods shopping Starbucks drinking tree hugger. So while the Lightning generated buzz, I never saw how it was going to be selling anywhere near other EVs, much less a Tesla.

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I thought it stood a chance because it looked relatively like a normal pickup. And the way most people use a truck as a grocery getter or a commuter car, it will probably work just fine. But then that one YouTube channel (Hoovie's Garage?) tried to tow boat with one. I think that killed any buzz it ever had.

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Yeah...even if the F150 owners don't ever do any towing, they want the ABILITY to do it if they have to...

Teslag said:

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torrid said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Well, dang. EV reality has come plummeting to earth.

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As the risk of doing someone's job for them, I'll remind you this is a brand problem and not indicative of EVs as a whole.

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Yep, but they won't get that.

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Oh no, we get it.

A Tesla is the $7 Starbucks coffee of the automotive world.

Go to any airport and look at the queue for SBUX when there's no line at Seattle's Best right across the concourse.

HollywoodBQ said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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HollywoodBQ said:

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Compare and contrast:
I've only seen 3 of the EV Lightning F-150s on the road, ever.

Meanwhile, Ford can't seem to keep up with production of 6G Broncos. Even coming out with a Bronco Raptor.

The market demand is there for one but not the other. There are only so many EV gadget guys out there.

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Ford seemed to do a Bud Light with the F-150 Lightning. At least from what I've experienced in my lifetime, your typical F-150 owner isn't going to be confused for a Whole Foods shopping Starbucks drinking tree hugger. So while the Lightning generated buzz, I never saw how it was going to be selling anywhere near other EVs, much less a Tesla.

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They should have left it as a trade show concept car.

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That they should have.

DrEvazanPhD said:

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torrid said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Well, dang. EV reality has come plummeting to earth.

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As the risk of doing someone's job for them, I'll remind you this is a brand problem and not indicative of EVs as a whole.

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Except that so far only Tesla seems to have figured out how to put an affordable, semi-reliable vehicle out on the road. The EVs from the Big 3 are POS, and the smaller makers are crazy expensive.

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I'd put it like this, Tesla is perceived as a luxury brand while GM, Ford, etc. are known for producing crappy fleet vehicles.

If GM was smart, they would have only produced Cadillac EVs until they generated enough business to branch out to other marques.

HollywoodBQ said:

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Teslag said:

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torrid said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Well, dang. EV reality has come plummeting to earth.

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As the risk of doing someone's job for them, I'll remind you this is a brand problem and not indicative of EVs as a whole.

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Yep, but they won't get that.

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Oh no, we get it.

A Tesla is the $7 Starbucks coffee of the automotive world.

Go to any airport and look at the queue for SBUX when there's no line at Seattle's Best right across the concourse.

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Or McDs...which has much better tasting coffee.

HollywoodBQ said:

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DrEvazanPhD said:

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torrid said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Well, dang. EV reality has come plummeting to earth.

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As the risk of doing someone's job for them, I'll remind you this is a brand problem and not indicative of EVs as a whole.

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Except that so far only Tesla seems to have figured out how to put an affordable, semi-reliable vehicle out on the road. The EVs from the Big 3 are POS, and the smaller makers are crazy expensive.

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I'd put it like this, Tesla is perceived as a luxury brand while GM, Ford, etc. are known for producing crappy fleet vehicles.

If GM was smart, they would have only produced Cadillac EVs until they generated enough business to branch out to other marques.

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I don't think they wanted to damage the reputation of Cadillac...

Quote:

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If GM was smart, they would have only produced Cadillac EVs until they generated enough business to branch out to other marques.

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This comment is exactly how they think and why they can't get it right. They think exactly like you think.

HollywoodBQ said:

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DrEvazanPhD said:

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torrid said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Well, dang. EV reality has come plummeting to earth.

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As the risk of doing someone's job for them, I'll remind you this is a brand problem and not indicative of EVs as a whole.

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Except that so far only Tesla seems to have figured out how to put an affordable, semi-reliable vehicle out on the road. The EVs from the Big 3 are POS, and the smaller makers are crazy expensive.

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I'd put it like this, Tesla is perceived as a luxury brand while GM, Ford, etc. are known for producing crappy fleet vehicles.

If GM was smart, they would have only produced Cadillac EVs until they generated enough business to branch out to other marques.

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Cadillac did have an EV for a while. ANd it was a piece of *****
ETA, it was a hybrid. The ELR

HollywoodBQ said:

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Teslag said:

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torrid said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Well, dang. EV reality has come plummeting to earth.

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As the risk of doing someone's job for them, I'll remind you this is a brand problem and not indicative of EVs as a whole.

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Yep, but they won't get that.

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Oh no, we get it.

A Tesla is the $7 Starbucks coffee of the automotive world.

Go to any airport and look at the queue for SBUX when there's no line at Seattle's Best right across the concourse.

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I disagree with this analogy.

If I were buying an EV I would buy a Tesla because they have by far the most experience in making them and do far more volume. Thus fewer issues and they have worked out so many more kinks. I go golf with my buddy who has a Mach and when he has to charge there are fewer places to go and typically half of the stations are out of order. Tesla doesn't have as much of an issue there. That's one example.

It's kind of like why I'd buy an F150 or Silverado but I'd be very hesitant to buy most other Ford or GM vehicles. They make a gazillion of them so they are much more reliable and more thought out. So if I am buying otherwise I'm probably getting a Toyota, Honda, or Hyundai/Kia. They have better manufacturing standards and do volume.

If I have a choice of another coffee shop besides Starbucks I usually go there because Starbucks is more like the McDonalds of coffee. It's consistent but mediocre. I'll take my chances on another coffee place being as good if not better, if the line is shorter it's really a no brainer.

No Spin Ag said:

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Ford seemed to do a Bud Light with the F-150 Lightning. At least from what I've experienced in my lifetime, your typical F-150 owner isn't going to be confused for a Whole Foods shopping Starbucks drinking tree hugger. So while the Lightning generated buzz, I never saw how it was going to be selling anywhere near other EVs, much less a Tesla.

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False information. Every man knows that your balls haven't dropped until you get an F-250.

I would expect a typical F-150 owner to be LOLpoor or a soyboy tree hugger.