aggie93 said:

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JUST IN — Average days on lot by vehicle type:

EVs: 72 days
ICE: 57 days
Hybrid: 39 days (!)

Hybrids are *extremely* hot right now.

(Data from sponsoring partner @FullpathCDXP)

— Car Dealership Guy (@GuyDealership) December 8, 2023

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May need to dig more on the hybrid number.

We just bought an Audi Q8. I added to insurance and they list it as a hybrid. Its not a true hybrid, just happens to have larger battery for the stop/start nonsense. Left me confused as I was sure I did not "accidentally" buy a hybrid.

Turns out I did.

DrEvazanPhD said:

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HollywoodBQ said:

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DrEvazanPhD said:

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torrid said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Well, dang. EV reality has come plummeting to earth.

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As the risk of doing someone's job for them, I'll remind you this is a brand problem and not indicative of EVs as a whole.

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Except that so far only Tesla seems to have figured out how to put an affordable, semi-reliable vehicle out on the road. The EVs from the Big 3 are POS, and the smaller makers are crazy expensive.

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I'd put it like this, Tesla is perceived as a luxury brand while GM, Ford, etc. are known for producing crappy fleet vehicles.

If GM was smart, they would have only produced Cadillac EVs until they generated enough business to branch out to other marques.

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Cadillac did have an EV for a while. ANd it was a piece of *****

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Cadillac has the Lyric and then the ultra-luxury Celestiq!

Guy I know recently bought a Tesla. He has Aggie plates on it that say ELNMSK. He took it BSA camping with our Troop. Sunday morning we are all leaving. It goes 3 feet and just stopped. Took him 30 mins to figure out it was a software issue and he had to patch it......

deddog said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Well, dang. EV reality has come plummeting to earth.

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I don't know about EV in general but there is ZERO reason to buy an EV Ford or GM. They have never got their **** together on ICE vehicles, why trust them on EVs?

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I love my F-150. The Eco-Boost is great!

Edit: And I can easily see myself buying a hybrid F-150 at some point.

fka ftc said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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Ford seemed to do a Bud Light with the F-150 Lightning. At least from what I've experienced in my lifetime, your typical F-150 owner isn't going to be confused for a Whole Foods shopping Starbucks drinking tree hugger. So while the Lightning generated buzz, I never saw how it was going to be selling anywhere near other EVs, much less a Tesla.

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False information. Every man knows that your balls haven't dropped until you get an F-250.

I would expect a typical F-150 owner to be LOLpoor or a soyboy tree hugger.

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I don't know where you live, but in West Texas, there are plenty of "Mericuh, F'k Yeah!" types of bumper stickers on F-150s.

Now, it's very likely that their level of maturity is still prepubescent, but regardless, they aren't lining up at Starbucks to get their lattes; they are usually seen parked at Twin Peaks, or other similar types of Sports Bars where the girls are dressed as scantily as allowed.

No Spin Ag said:

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fka ftc said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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Ford seemed to do a Bud Light with the F-150 Lightning. At least from what I've experienced in my lifetime, your typical F-150 owner isn't going to be confused for a Whole Foods shopping Starbucks drinking tree hugger. So while the Lightning generated buzz, I never saw how it was going to be selling anywhere near other EVs, much less a Tesla.

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False information. Every man knows that your balls haven't dropped until you get an F-250.

I would expect a typical F-150 owner to be LOLpoor or a soyboy tree hugger.

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I don't know where you live, but in West Texas, there are plenty of "Mericuh, F'k Yeah!" types of bumper stickers on F-150s.

Now, it's very likely that their level of maturity is still prepubescent, but regardless, they aren't lining up at Starbucks to get their lattes; they are usually seen parked at Twin Peaks, or other similar types of Sports Bars where the girls are dressed as scantily as allowed.

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That is why I provided for the first option. One of the reasons they are LOLpoor is chasing ***** they ain't ever going to get.

IMHO, IF you're going "green" I'd go the hybrid route.
Need a backup plan, more petroleum products purchase places than "charging stations".

fka ftc said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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fka ftc said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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Ford seemed to do a Bud Light with the F-150 Lightning. At least from what I've experienced in my lifetime, your typical F-150 owner isn't going to be confused for a Whole Foods shopping Starbucks drinking tree hugger. So while the Lightning generated buzz, I never saw how it was going to be selling anywhere near other EVs, much less a Tesla.

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False information. Every man knows that your balls haven't dropped until you get an F-250.

I would expect a typical F-150 owner to be LOLpoor or a soyboy tree hugger.

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I don't know where you live, but in West Texas, there are plenty of "Mericuh, F'k Yeah!" types of bumper stickers on F-150s.

Now, it's very likely that their level of maturity is still prepubescent, but regardless, they aren't lining up at Starbucks to get their lattes; they are usually seen parked at Twin Peaks, or other similar types of Sports Bars where the girls are dressed as scantily as allowed.

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That is why I provided for the first option. One of the reasons they are LOLpoor is chasing ***** they ain't ever going to get.

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Good point

Agree with you. I'm not an EV guy either but if I were to buy one I'd want one that started life as a blank white sheet of paper that was designed from the very first sketch on a bar napkin to be an EV. Not a "how can we take this vehicle and strip the engine and fuel tanks out of it and put batteries and electric motors in?"

It looks like the industry is about to coalesce around the Tesla plug. That's great but it's not the end of the story. The industry needs to settle on a voltage. I believe Tesla is 800 V DC and that's the voltage their DC Super Chargers operate at. If you want ANY vehicle to fast charge it needs to do so DC and the charger must match the vehicles working voltage. Otherwise the charger reverts to a 110 (or 220) V AC power supply and relies on an inverter inside the vehicle to handle the conversion to DC at the desired voltage. This process is SLOW. It's fine if you just want to top off overnight, but it will not work for a long distances.

Tesla's V1-3 Superchargers and S, 3, X, and Y vehicles are 400v. Their V4 Superchargers are interoperable and can do 400v or 800v and can charge up to 350 kW (currently) and are specced to 600 kW maximum.

Cybertruck is also 800v, which is why it has a capability of charging in less than half the time as the F-150 Lightning. When connecting to a V1-3 Supercharger the battery is split in two to create two 400v batteries and charges at full speed at those slower Superchargers.

Thanks...

How does that compare to the other manufacturers vehicles and how does that affect compatibility with different plug styles and/or use of adapters?

Grossly overpriced from an instrumental value point of view and too expensive to produce to drop it's price to a point where demand equals supply. If you could get a high trim version for $65K, maybe, but then again even at those prices all pickups are overpriced. You can't have crappy range and price them significantly higher than ICE equivalents.

One good thing about these high interest rates, is maybe they'll finally get consumers to wake up and quit taking out ridiculously long loans on these overpriced vehicles. I hope they fail spectacularly and the OEMs get serious about fighting the EPA and other bureaucrats for the over reaches driving vehicle prices through the roof.

Ag with kids said:

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HollywoodBQ said:

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Teslag said:

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torrid said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Well, dang. EV reality has come plummeting to earth.

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As the risk of doing someone's job for them, I'll remind you this is a brand problem and not indicative of EVs as a whole.

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Yep, but they won't get that.

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Oh no, we get it.

A Tesla is the $7 Starbucks coffee of the automotive world.

Go to any airport and look at the queue for SBUX when there's no line at Seattle's Best right across the concourse.

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Or McDs...which has much better tasting coffee.

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if we're comparing to Starbucks, you can get better tasting coffee out of a vending machine in the men's room of a truck stop on the interstate.

fka ftc said:

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dmart90 said:

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deddog said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Well, dang. EV reality has come plummeting to earth.

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I don't know about EV in general but there is ZERO reason to buy an EV Ford or GM. They have never got their **** together on ICE vehicles, why trust them on EVs?

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I love my F-150. The Eco-Boost is great!

Edit: And I can easily see myself buying a hybrid F-150 at some point.

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Must be a 2021 or newer F-150. Lucky you for not having to go through cam phaser hell like a lot of us did.

Porsche Taycan, Lucid, and Hyundai/Kia operate at 800v and I believe they're the only ones to do so as of yet, and I believe they all have similar issues with charging on Tesla's charging network for that reason. They're going to have to re-engineer their battery packs for better interoperability, which based upon what Tesla showed in their Cybertruck interviews doesn't seem to be that difficult of expensive of a problem.

I think GM's Hummer EV does the same thing as the Cybertruck, but in reverse. The drivetrain/systems operate at 400v, but when connected to a 350 kW charger it can run the two batteries in series to convert to 800v and accept the full charge speed, but not 100% on that as it's a really expensive vehicle to build and likely won't ever sell meaningful units. Battery pack is twice as large as the Cybertruck, but doesn't get anywhere near twice the range.

Porsche/VW haven't yet adopted the NACS charger, though it's very likely they will. They are the last major manufacturer that hasn't signed on as far as I can tell.

Also think long term Tesla will proliferate the 800v and 48v systems in the Cybertruck to the rest of their vehicles to drive down costs/improve charge rates, but how long that will take is unknown. Think they'll probably push out their 800v/48v compact to drive up volumes on those components and then maybe a van and then back fill to the current models? Hard to say, may happen sooner than that (I hope).

First, to OP, Ford didn't cut EV production, they slashed it by 50% for the lightning, inarguably their most important play in the space.

Second;

Quote:

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Also think long term Tesla will proliferate the 800v and 48v systems in the Cybertruck to the rest of their vehicles to drive down costs/improve charge rates, but how long that will take is unknown. Think they'll probably push out their 800v/48v compact to drive up volumes on those components and then maybe a van and then back fill to the current models? Hard to say, may happen sooner than that (I hope).

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800V is not as simple/great as you might have been led to believe by journalists. There are very, very good reasons why high voltage lines are kept so high in the air/protected when terrestrial by things like brick walls. Sure, there are advantages such as the cord having less metal but the insulation becomes more important, and that is also true of all the little connections in the battery/car itself. Basically, amp-up the voltage (pun intended) sounds great to hit a goal of fast charging, but you are also increasing the risk of degradation/a nick anywhere in the wiring causing a big problem.

800V DC power is danger AF, I'm sure they've got all kinds of safety devices, but I wouldn't want to be the one to find the weak spot. Imagine wrecking a Cybertruck with a super tough body/glass and electronic door/window systems making it difficult to escape, all while sitting on a huge lithium battery pack and potential 800V shorts.

fka ftc said:

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Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

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fka ftc said:

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I think they chose a poor spokesperson for its introduction.

Maybe Kamala's endorsement would have worked better?

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When my dad started showing early signs of dementia, he managed to total his car by driving it through a neighbor's bedroom. We didn't let him drive again, obviously. Yet Xiden's handlers think it a good idea to allow this drooling bozo to get behind the wheel of anything bigger than a Big Wheel?

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Surely the guy in the passenger seat or one of the Ford observers had a hand on the kill switch.

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This clip is a near perfect equivalency for this POTATUS AND HIS TERM:
1. FJB thinks and acts like he's in control
2. The real driver is hidden from view
3. The crowd of observers (media) gleefully cheer on the charade, afraid to cry out," The Emperor has no clothes!"

FJB (just like Obama) believe in their hearts that Americans just don't understand the brilliance of what they are saying.

aggieforester05 said:

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800V DC power is danger AF, I'm sure they've got all kinds of safety devices, but I wouldn't want to be the one to find the weak spot. Imagine wrecking a Cybertruck with a super tough body/glass and electronic door/window systems making it difficult to escape, all while sitting on a huge lithium battery pack and potential 800V shorts.

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fka ftc said:

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I think they chose a poor spokesperson for its introduction.

Maybe Kamala's endorsement would have worked better?

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Everything Joe Biden touches turns to crap.

torrid said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Well, dang. EV reality has come plummeting to earth.

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As the risk of doing someone's job for them, I'll remind you this is a brand problem and not indicative of EVs as a whole.

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That is incorrect. The government has forced a flood of supply to the market above and beyond actual demand for the product. Classic government interference disrupting natural economics.

The overall industry is scaling back and many dealers are now petitioning their congressman and the government to tap the brakes on growth because they have months and months of backlogged supply while ICE cars do not.

They can't sell EV because users don't want them while ICE continues to sell at a steady clip.

Their rational and logical request is to let the market grow organically and not by government fiat as it is now.

Gigem314 said:

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fka ftc said:

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I think they chose a poor spokesperson for its introduction.

Maybe Kamala's endorsement would have worked better?

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Everything Joe Biden touches turns to crap.

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you meant to add "including his underwear and trousers" but we all know you were thinking it.

Ford Cuts Electric F-150 Plans in Ominous Sign for EV Market

• Automaker halves expected 2024 output of the plug-in model
• EV sales growth in US seen slowing significantly next year

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-12-11/ford-slashes-electric-f-150-plans-in-ominous-sign-for-ev-market