https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Your_papers,_please

Anybody ever seen Born in East L.A.?

It's not a law until it clears both houses and the Governor signs it. I doubt that happens with this horribly thought out legislation.

$240 Worth of Pudding said:

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doubledog said:

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itsyourboypookie said:

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And a tad racist. And without due process seems unconstitutional. Does this mean I can be pulled over to prove I'm a citizen? Or will I have to be committing another crime first?

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Due process and the constitution applies first and foremost to citizens of the United States after that it can apply for illegal aliens. Most of us carry proof of citizenship/residency on our selves at all times.

And yes the courts will most likely strike this down.

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And every other government on earth that asks for papers.
Soon it will not matter, you will be ID by a retinal scan.
Big Brother is watching and he is pissed.

What exactly is the point of this? Its just seems dumb. Surely we're not pretending that it is a serious solution to immigration to have the ability to take them to the gate and yell "Now go on, now, GIT!" at them?

Dad-O-Lot said:

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If an officer doesn't believe you, you're going to the border.

...

I understand the desire to simplify the process and just take the border-crossers back where they came from, but this is too easily abused.

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The blind trust displayed in this thread as to the good judgment of every law enforcement officer is mind boggling.

Ags4DaWin said:

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Antoninus said:

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You are just not seeing the potential for abuse here.

It does not MATTER. Jesus could be a 5th-generation Texan and be carrying both his TDL and his US passport. Barney Fife could STILL haul him to Del Rio. Now, Barney and his department might get sued for it, but the statute DOES authorize that action.

It is a poorly-written, piece of knee-jerk legislation.

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Please explain how this happens.

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I have. Several times.

Barney Fife is a deputy in Texarkana. He decides that Chuy is here illegally. Or maybe he just dislikes Chuy for something Chuy did to him in high school. Barney can arrest Chuy under this statute, in which case Chuy gets to defend himself and Barney must prove his case that Chuy is in the country illegally.

Or Barney can just unilaterally take Chuy into custody, drive to Del Rio and tell Chuy to "go back to Mexico." Chuy isn't required to cross the bridge into Acuña, but Barney isn't required either to arrest Chuy or to drive Chuy back to Texarkana, either.

I linked the text of the statute, FFS. Read it.

Ags4DaWin said:

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Have UR ID and it's not a problem. At this point something has to be done to empower state and local Law Enforcement since the Federal government has shown zero interest in protecting citizens and border states amd until thatchanges you will see more like this.

At this point DGAF

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Da comrade, show me your papers!!

Under the "best case" scenario, all this is doing is having the cop drive someone to the front of the line at port of entry to do the paperwork there. That's best case scenario. And we know there will be bad case scenarios.

Edit:
"may, in lieu of arrestingthe person or taking the person before a magistrate, remove the person by:
(1) collecting available identifying information of the person, which may include the use of photographic and biometric measures that are cross-referenced with all relevant local, state, and federal criminal databases;
(2) transporting the person to a port of entry; and
(3) ordering the person to return to the foreign nation from which the person entered or attempted to enter."

Jeeper79 said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Have UR ID and it's not a problem. At this point something has to be done to empower state and local Law Enforcement since the Federal government has shown zero interest in protecting citizens and border states amd until thatchanges you will see more like this.

At this point DGAF

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An ID is not a requirement for legal Texas residents unless they're behind the wheel of a vehicle. So what if someone doesn't have one or is t carrying one because they don't need it at the time?

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Who leaves their home without ID? The only time I don't have it is If I'm in my own yard.

Whatever it takes to get them out of Texas. It is a Federal problem that is being neglected, so the state should have any and all authority to remove illegals. I'm not going to lose any sleep over anyone taken to the border.

Urban Ag said:

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$240 Worth of Pudding said:

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GenericAggie said:

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You're saying people who are born in the US, grow up in TX south of San Antonio don't speak, write, or read English?

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To follow up on Charpie's comments…you ever been to Starr County? Yes, I worked many years with natural born Americans of Mexican descent who could hardly speak a word of English.

May be hard for you to believe hence my earlier comment about Amarillo guys chiming in on the issue. The Valley is another world. Especially the further west you get from Brownsville. There's a stretch from about La Joya to damn near Laredo that would blow your mind.

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And this is exactly why, culturally, Mexico and most of Latin America are failed states.

There is nothing good about what either of you are describing. This is disfunction. Cultural dysfunction.

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Mexico is a failed state because their government is corrupt to the core. Most Average Jose's hate it but are absolutely powerless to do anything about it.

There is zero reason why Mexico shouldn't be first world country. Coasts on two oceans. Natural resources out the wazoo. GREAT people.
Yeah there are some cultural aspects that need to change (la mordida) but you can say that about any culture. In case you've missed it, ours isn't exactly a paragon of honesty and virtue.

This law aside, how DO police/sheriffs/troopers in Texas deal with people they have in custody that they suspect are illegals?

What if they see someone cross the Rio Grande? Can they stop them and detain them?

I'm seriously not sure how that works. Obviously C&BP can do things in that case (I assume).

Charpie said:

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GenericAggie said:

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Dad-O-Lot said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Have UR ID and it's not a problem. At this point something has to be done to empower state and local Law Enforcement since the Federal government has shown zero interest in protecting citizens and border states amd until thatchanges you will see more like this.

At this point DGAF

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sounds great, until someone hispanic you know is taken to Mexico just because they didn't have their ID with them.

No, this is too much power for law enforcement. Sure, it's more difficult requiring proof and conviction before punishment, but it is a pillar of a free society.

The answer is to keep them from coming across in the first place.

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The friend who's Hispanic can speak, read, and write English.

The person who just got here illegally can not do any of the above. Why are we making this so hard?

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My grandma was a 5th generation Texan who grew up in Starr County who didn't speak English. She didn't write it or read it either. She didn't have the need. Believe it or not, there are a lot of folks just like her. So she should be deported?

This is hypothetical since she's dead

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I don't believe you. I know 0 second generation Texans that do not speak English

UAS Ag said:

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This law aside, how DO police/sheriffs/troopers in Texas deal with people they have in custody that they suspect are illegals?

What if they see someone cross the Rio Grande? Can they stop them and detain them?

I'm seriously not sure how that works. Obviously C&BP can do things in that case (I assume).

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They don't do anything unless they are wanted for a violent felony, or proof that they're part of a cartel or gang, then ICE will probably pick them up.

Even when Trump was potus, couldn't get ICE to pick up anyone.

Currently DPS is arresting ones for trespassing in Kinney County and maybe a couple of others. The only DAs that will prosecute.

looks poorly written, way to much ambiguity...

What I am inferring is that the purpose is to enable LE who legally interact with illegals can take them to the border for a "voluntary" cross back in lieu of arrest. This would be for an obvious illegal alien. Specifically it would be for an illegal who has been caught doing another crime such as burglary, DUI, assault, etc.

No cop from anywhere away from the border is going to drive someone to the border. Nor will their agencies allow it. Besides the logistical issues, for no real return, the potential lawsuits would negate any authority.

Officers can't randomly ID people without a 4th Amendment violation. If an officer has reasonable, articulable suspicion that someone has committed a crime, the suspect has to provide identification. This doesn't mean they need a physical ID, they just need to be able to identify themselves.

Illegals are all over this country, with no fear of deportation. Many are committing crimes, besides being here illegally, with no fear of consequences.

IMO this bill is too open ended and ambiguous to pass judicial review.

Charpie said:

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I don't care what you believe. Head to the border. There are lots of them

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I believe you.

But, I live in Corpus now. My teacher GF grew up in McAllen so she speaks some valley Spanish fluently.

When we moved here from DFW, she tried speaking a little Spanish to some of her students. She said they looked at her almost with contempt and told her "I speak English. Do you think I'm stupid?"

It kind of surprised her. But, apparently here it's REALLY pushed by the parents to speak English.

Interesting phenomenon. She said the kids she talked to in DFW were not like that.

Anyway, back to the regularly scheduled program.

I always carry my valid TX DL and my Passport card in my wallet along with my CCs.

Why is this so difficult for others?

Remember the old AmEx commercials...Don't leave home without it.

Dad-O-Lot said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Have UR ID and it's not a problem. At this point something has to be done to empower state and local Law Enforcement since the Federal government has shown zero interest in protecting citizens and border states amd until thatchanges you will see more like this.

At this point DGAF

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sounds great, until someone hispanic you know is taken to Mexico just because they didn't have their ID with them.

No, this is too much power for law enforcement. Sure, it's more difficult requiring proof and conviction before punishment, but it is a pillar of a free society.

The answer is to keep them from coming across in the first place.

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Make sure you have your ID then.

$240 Worth of Pudding said:

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Urban Ag said:

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$240 Worth of Pudding said:

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GenericAggie said:

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You're saying people who are born in the US, grow up in TX south of San Antonio don't speak, write, or read English?

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To follow up on Charpie's comments…you ever been to Starr County? Yes, I worked many years with natural born Americans of Mexican descent who could hardly speak a word of English.

May be hard for you to believe hence my earlier comment about Amarillo guys chiming in on the issue. The Valley is another world. Especially the further west you get from Brownsville. There's a stretch from about La Joya to damn near Laredo that would blow your mind.

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And this is exactly why, culturally, Mexico and most of Latin America are failed states.

There is nothing good about what either of you are describing. This is disfunction. Cultural dysfunction.

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Mexico is a failed state because their government is corrupt to the core. Most Average Jose's hate it but are absolutely powerless to do anything about it.

There is zero reason why Mexico shouldn't be first world country. Coasts on two oceans. Natural resources out the wazoo. GREAT people.
Yeah there are some cultural aspects that need to change (la mordida) but you can say that about any culture. In case you've missed it, ours isn't exactly a paragon of honesty and virtue.

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The people elect the government there. It's on them. They elected a full blown socialist last time. The Mexican people are the reason Mexico is screwed up.

I was asked for my papers by the Roman police while sitting at the train station in Italy.

It's was traumatic. / eye roll

UAS Ag said:

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Charpie said:

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I don't care what you believe. Head to the border. There are lots of them

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I believe you.

But, I live in Corpus now. My teacher GF grew up in McAllen so she speaks some valley Spanish fluently.

When we moved here from DFW, she tried speaking a little Spanish to some of her students. She said they looked at her almost with contempt and told her "I speak English. Do you think I'm stupid?"

It kind of surprised her. But, apparently here it's REALLY pushed by the parents to speak English.

Interesting phenomenon. She said the kids she talked to in DFW were not like that.

Anyway, back to the regularly scheduled program.

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I think it depends.

My grandmother didn't speak English, but her children (my dad and siblings) were fluent and she made sure they got educated. She broke the pattern because she knew that the way to get ahead was to speak English. This was in the late 20s-40s. Now it's a bit different and has regressed some.

Logos Stick said:

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$240 Worth of Pudding said:

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Urban Ag said:

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$240 Worth of Pudding said:

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GenericAggie said:

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You're saying people who are born in the US, grow up in TX south of San Antonio don't speak, write, or read English?

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To follow up on Charpie's comments…you ever been to Starr County? Yes, I worked many years with natural born Americans of Mexican descent who could hardly speak a word of English.

May be hard for you to believe hence my earlier comment about Amarillo guys chiming in on the issue. The Valley is another world. Especially the further west you get from Brownsville. There's a stretch from about La Joya to damn near Laredo that would blow your mind.

---

And this is exactly why, culturally, Mexico and most of Latin America are failed states.

There is nothing good about what either of you are describing. This is disfunction. Cultural dysfunction.

---

Mexico is a failed state because their government is corrupt to the core. Most Average Jose's hate it but are absolutely powerless to do anything about it.

There is zero reason why Mexico shouldn't be first world country. Coasts on two oceans. Natural resources out the wazoo. GREAT people.
Yeah there are some cultural aspects that need to change (la mordida) but you can say that about any culture. In case you've missed it, ours isn't exactly a paragon of honesty and virtue.

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The people elect the government there. It's on them. They elected a full blown socialist last time. The Mexican people are the reason Mexico is screwed up.

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Now who's being naive, Kay?

$240 Worth of Pudding said:

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Urban Ag said:

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$240 Worth of Pudding said:

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GenericAggie said:

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You're saying people who are born in the US, grow up in TX south of San Antonio don't speak, write, or read English?

---

To follow up on Charpie's comments…you ever been to Starr County? Yes, I worked many years with natural born Americans of Mexican descent who could hardly speak a word of English.

May be hard for you to believe hence my earlier comment about Amarillo guys chiming in on the issue. The Valley is another world. Especially the further west you get from Brownsville. There's a stretch from about La Joya to damn near Laredo that would blow your mind.

---

And this is exactly why, culturally, Mexico and most of Latin America are failed states.

There is nothing good about what either of you are describing. This is disfunction. Cultural dysfunction.

---

Mexico is a failed state because their government is corrupt to the core. Most Average Jose's hate it but are absolutely powerless to do anything about it.

There is zero reason why Mexico shouldn't be first world country. Coasts on two oceans. Natural resources out the wazoo. GREAT people.
Yeah there are some cultural aspects that need to change (la mordida) but you can say that about any culture. In case you've missed it, ours isn't exactly a paragon of honesty and virtue.

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Sounds like what's happened to our government. We are as corrupt as anyone.

I could compare our drug manufacturers to the cartels. Not so different.

itsyourboypookie said:

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And a tad racist. And without due process seems unconstitutional. Does this mean I can be pulled over to prove I'm a citizen? Or will I have to be committing another crime first?

In this 3rd #txlege Special Session, the Texas House just passed House Bill 4 that empowers any officer to detain any person in any part of Texas & take them to the Mexico border. 

No judge. No evidence. This is not border security; this is insanity. https://t.co/4nCVCWJVpl pic.twitter.com/Ij0w4FLWyD

— Gina Hinojosa (@GinaForAustin) October 26, 2023

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Racist? Which race are we talking about?

Hence the last sentence of my post.

F16 to Texas leadership - stop the flow of illegals by any means possible. FJB is killing us... send them back

Also F16 - Texas leadership is a socialist gestapo with this law to remove illegals

lol

I think there's a right and wrong way about doing this. I'm not sure a law like this is the answer.
My thought, never trust the govt. Im definitely not trusting every officer out there to correctly enforce this law. Far too much corruption out there.

The TX government should just enforce the laws already in place, do the federal govt job. Let's work on securing the border before we go about on witch hunts for illegals.

I'm not disagreeing with your position there... just pointing out the absurdity of what's posted on this board.

Old May Banker said:

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F16 to Texas leadership - stop the flow of illegals by any means possible. FJB is killing us... send them back

Also F16 - Texas leadership is a socialist gestapo with this law to remove illegals

lol

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There is a right way and a wrong way to do this. This law is the wrong way to do it. It's too broad and too subjective

Old May Banker said:

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F16 to Texas leadership - stop the flow of illegals by any means possible. FJB is killing us... send them back

Also F16 - Texas leadership is a socialist gestapo with this law to remove illegals

lol

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You saw that too?

Dark_Knight said:

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I think there's a right and wrong way about doing this. I'm not sure a law like this is the answer.
My thought, never trust the govt. Im definitely not trusting every officer out there to correctly enforce this law. Far too much corruption out there.

The TX government should just enforce the laws already in place, do the federal govt job. Let's work on securing the border before we go about on witch hunts for illegals.

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Kind of hard to enforce laws that are on on the books in the TEXAS code...How do you enforce a law that doesn't exist as far as the courts in TX are concerned?

Charpie said:

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Old May Banker said:

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F16 to Texas leadership - stop the flow of illegals by any means possible. FJB is killing us... send them back

Also F16 - Texas leadership is a socialist gestapo with this law to remove illegals

lol

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There is a right way and a wrong way to do this. This law is the wrong way to do it. It's too broad and too subjective

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Again... I agree with you. My shot here was at the hypocricy that exist on this board.

LatinAggie1997 said:

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I always carry my valid TX DL and my Passport card in my wallet along with my CCs.

Why is this so difficult for others?

Remember the old AmEx commercials...Don't leave home without it.

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Not everyone has a DL. Not everyone even owns a car.

Jack Boyette said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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maverick2076 said:

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I'm still waiting for the part of the law that's racist. Does it only say that they can detain and transport people of a certain color?

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If white people can walk around without fear of being questioned and brown people can't, it's a racist law. HTH

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Uhhh…no. It's called logic. Disparate impact is made up bull**** created by a leftist Supreme Court.

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You claim logic and then you throw it all away. Interesting tactic.