Israel/Hamas going at it

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Hubert J. Farnsworth
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Joes said:

Ag87H2O said:

JobSecurity said:


At a minimum the Israelis should demand the cargo be inspected by third parties before crossing the border to verify there are no weapons with the shipments. There is about a zero percent chance the Arab countries sending supplies won't try to smuggle military aid to Hamas.
Yeah but even food and water and medical supplies and such is still just going to go to Hamas.

We are the dumbest country around. It's astonishing we're as powerful as we are. For now anyway..


Liberal leadership that in no way takes into account human nature. The Wests "hearts and minds" approach flat out doesn't work against an enemy like this. You would think we would have learned that lesson over the last 20 years. Due to US meddling, this thing is going to drag out for a long time and none of the problems will get resolved(taking out Hamas).
LMCane
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Hubert J. Farnsworth said:

Joes said:

Ag87H2O said:

JobSecurity said:


At a minimum the Israelis should demand the cargo be inspected by third parties before crossing the border to verify there are no weapons with the shipments. There is about a zero percent chance the Arab countries sending supplies won't try to smuggle military aid to Hamas.
Yeah but even food and water and medical supplies and such is still just going to go to Hamas.

We are the dumbest country around. It's astonishing we're as powerful as we are. For now anyway..


Liberal leadership that in no way takes into account human nature. The Wests "hearts and minds" approach flat out doesn't work against an enemy like this. You would think we would have learned that lesson over the last 20 years. Due to US meddling, this thing is going to drag out for a long time and none of the problems will get resolved(taking out Hamas).
we have video LITERALLY showing Hamas terrorists digging up the UNRWA water pipes from the ground

to then use them for their missile programs...
Pinochet
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LMCane said:

Hubert J. Farnsworth said:

Joes said:

Ag87H2O said:

JobSecurity said:


At a minimum the Israelis should demand the cargo be inspected by third parties before crossing the border to verify there are no weapons with the shipments. There is about a zero percent chance the Arab countries sending supplies won't try to smuggle military aid to Hamas.
Yeah but even food and water and medical supplies and such is still just going to go to Hamas.

We are the dumbest country around. It's astonishing we're as powerful as we are. For now anyway..


Liberal leadership that in no way takes into account human nature. The Wests "hearts and minds" approach flat out doesn't work against an enemy like this. You would think we would have learned that lesson over the last 20 years. Due to US meddling, this thing is going to drag out for a long time and none of the problems will get resolved(taking out Hamas).
we have video LITERALLY showing Hamas terrorists digging up the UNRWA water pipes from the ground

to then use them for their missile programs...

Of note, it was a ****ing Hamas propaganda video with music and everything. Those terrorists were proud of the fact they're using aid to make munitions at the expense of actual innocent people.
Rossticus
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Texas velvet maestro said:

no comment. but here's scott ritter's not positive forecast.

go to beginning of stream.




Pedo convict expat now Russian resident and persistent propagandist shill Scott Ritter? I guess at least having awareness of the propaganda sanctioned by a source who also supports Hamas has value I guess? Apart from that, though, this guy's analysis on everything is trash.
LMCane
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RGLAG85 said:

TXaggiesTX said:

RGLAG85 said:

TXaggiesTX said:

LMCane said:

TXaggiesTX said:

FireAg said:

There's very little chance the Israelis hit a hospital…

The ME wants full scale war with the West…


From listening to Morons like Lindsey Graham and Nikki Haley it certainly seems like America is the one itching for war. Didn't Janet Yellen just say "we can afford 2 wars". Insane.

Talking about this conflict is impossible because both sides just say everything their side does that normal people would consider horrific is fake. And there's plenty on both sides.
what EXACTLY has been "fake" from the Israeli side?
Additionally, the idea that this all just started relatively unprovoked is a lie, both sides have been killing civilians from the other side for decades.
This is such bull**** and only a reason for you to hold onto an anti-Israeli view point. Show me one time Israel has killed Palestinian civilians unprovoked and I'll show you a hundred of the Palestinians doing it to Israelis.


Ok. From times of Israel - 151 Palestinians died in the conflict last year (PA claims 167), versus 27 Israelites. Most estimates of the deaths this month have Israeli deaths at 1,500 and Palestinian deaths around 3,000.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/2022-shaping-up-to-be-deadliest-for-israelis-and-palestinians-in-years/amp/

Excerpts from the article:

Several bystanders have been killed amid the gun battles too, such as Al Jazeera reporter Shireen Abu Akleh, who was accidentally shot dead by an Israeli soldier during a raid in Jenin in May.

On Sunday night, a 16-year-old girl, Jana Zakarna, was apparently shot dead by an Israeli soldier as she was on a rooftop in Jenin, amid an armed clash between troops and Palestinian gunmen.

In the cases of Abu Akleh, Zakarna, and Omar Assad a Palestinian who had a heart attack and died after being arrested and later abandoned by troops Israeli officials and even the army have apologized for their deaths.

But there have also been Palestinians killed in murkier circumstances, such as Ammar Shafiq Abu Afifa, an unarmed 19-year-old student who was shot dead after running away from troops who sought to question him. The IDF did not say he sought to commit an attack or was otherwise wanted for questioning.

Excerpt from United Nations report in 2022

Reiterating the United Nations steadfast support to both sides in achieving a sustainable peace, he outlined recent developments on the ground, noting that a total of 14 Palestinians were killed between 8 December 2022 and 13 January 2023, and another 117 were injured by Israeli security forces. Israeli settlers or other civilians perpetrated 63 attacks against Palestinians resulting in 28 injuries, including six children. According to Israeli sources, five Israeli civilians and four security forces personnel were injured by Palestinians in attacks, clashes, the throwing of stones and Molotov cocktails, and other incidents. Palestinians perpetrated a total of 89 attacks against Israeli civilians during the reporting period.


Who provoked it?

Again, show me where Israel has just killed Palestinians because it was a Tuesday?


this is typical Palestinian agitprop

in World War Two the German government reported that its records list 4.3 million dead and missing military personnel.

The United States had only 407,000 dead.

SEE!!

THE UNITED STATES WAS CLEARLY THE AGGRESSOR BECAUSE 10 TIMES AS MANY GERMANS DIED AS AMERICANS!
TXaggiesTX
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AG
LMCane said:

J. Walter Weatherman said:

TXaggiesTX said:

RGLAG85 said:

TXaggiesTX said:

RGLAG85 said:

TXaggiesTX said:

LMCane said:

TXaggiesTX said:

FireAg said:

There's very little chance the Israelis hit a hospital…

The ME wants full scale war with the West…


From listening to Morons like Lindsey Graham and Nikki Haley it certainly seems like America is the one itching for war. Didn't Janet Yellen just say "we can afford 2 wars". Insane.

Talking about this conflict is impossible because both sides just say everything their side does that normal people would consider horrific is fake. And there's plenty on both sides.
what EXACTLY has been "fake" from the Israeli side?
Additionally, the idea that this all just started relatively unprovoked is a lie, both sides have been killing civilians from the other side for decades.
This is such bull**** and only a reason for you to hold onto an anti-Israeli view point. Show me one time Israel has killed Palestinian civilians unprovoked and I'll show you a hundred of the Palestinians doing it to Israelis.


Ok. From times of Israel - 151 Palestinians died in the conflict last year (PA claims 167), versus 27 Israelites. Most estimates of the deaths this month have Israeli deaths at 1,500 and Palestinian deaths around 3,000.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/2022-shaping-up-to-be-deadliest-for-israelis-and-palestinians-in-years/amp/

Excerpts from the article:

Several bystanders have been killed amid the gun battles too, such as Al Jazeera reporter Shireen Abu Akleh, who was accidentally shot dead by an Israeli soldier during a raid in Jenin in May.

On Sunday night, a 16-year-old girl, Jana Zakarna, was apparently shot dead by an Israeli soldier as she was on a rooftop in Jenin, amid an armed clash between troops and Palestinian gunmen.

In the cases of Abu Akleh, Zakarna, and Omar Assad a Palestinian who had a heart attack and died after being arrested and later abandoned by troops Israeli officials and even the army have apologized for their deaths.

But there have also been Palestinians killed in murkier circumstances, such as Ammar Shafiq Abu Afifa, an unarmed 19-year-old student who was shot dead after running away from troops who sought to question him. The IDF did not say he sought to commit an attack or was otherwise wanted for questioning.

Excerpt from United Nations report in 2022

Reiterating the United Nations steadfast support to both sides in achieving a sustainable peace, he outlined recent developments on the ground, noting that a total of 14 Palestinians were killed between 8 December 2022 and 13 January 2023, and another 117 were injured by Israeli security forces. Israeli settlers or other civilians perpetrated 63 attacks against Palestinians resulting in 28 injuries, including six children. According to Israeli sources, five Israeli civilians and four security forces personnel were injured by Palestinians in attacks, clashes, the throwing of stones and Molotov cocktails, and other incidents. Palestinians perpetrated a total of 89 attacks against Israeli civilians during the reporting period.


Who provoked it?

Again, show me where Israel has just killed Palestinians because it was a Tuesday?


What? Every death I just listed was the result of something that happened earlier. This conflict has been ongoing for 70 years. You wouldn't consider going to some family farm that they have been on for generations and just forcibly taking it over and forcing them off provocative? That doesn't justify Palestinian murders of Israelis but 99% of the violence in this conflict and every conflict has some form of internal justification from the perpetrator. I bet you think every time or most of the time an Israeli kills a Palestinian it's totally justified. That's…laughable is the wrong word but it's very ignorant. And what BLM is saying the other way is also ignorant.

Regardless - The most important thing in this conflict is that America doesn't take a side and get ourselves into another Middle East mess. We need Trump, the only candidate that doesn't seem to be pounding the war drum.




If the argument you're clumsily attempting to make puts you even remotely on the side of the group who just massacred 1,500+ civilians, including infants and grandparents, you should probably stop.


"What? Every death I just listed was the result of something that happened earlier. This conflict has been ongoing for 70 years.

You wouldn't consider going to some family farm that they have been on for generations and just forcibly taking it over and forcing them off provocative?

That doesn't justify German murders of Jews and Poles- but 99% of the violence in this conflict and every conflict has some form of internal justification from the perpetrator.

I bet you think every time or most of the time a British soldier kills a German it's totally justified. That's…laughable is the wrong word but it's very ignorant. And what Berlin is saying the other way is also ignorant.


Regardless - The most important thing in this conflict is that America doesn't take a side and get ourselves into another European mess. We need Lindbergh, the only candidate that doesn't seem to be pounding the war drum."

same poster in early 1941 defending the Nazis.


Quick, somebody is insinuating that Jews are not 100% in the moral right all the time - better bring up WW2!! Never heard that one before. There's a genocide happening between Armenia and Azerbaijan right now, should we intervene there? How about all the human smuggling and child slavery and warring tribes in Africa? Let's bomb Zambia!!

For the record, yes I believe WW2 could have largely been avoided, "Hitler, Churchill, and the Unnecessary War" by Pat Buchanan is a great book on the subject.
Aggies1322
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AG
TXaggiesTX said:

LMCane said:

J. Walter Weatherman said:

TXaggiesTX said:

RGLAG85 said:

TXaggiesTX said:

RGLAG85 said:

TXaggiesTX said:

LMCane said:

TXaggiesTX said:

FireAg said:

There's very little chance the Israelis hit a hospital…

The ME wants full scale war with the West…


From listening to Morons like Lindsey Graham and Nikki Haley it certainly seems like America is the one itching for war. Didn't Janet Yellen just say "we can afford 2 wars". Insane.

Talking about this conflict is impossible because both sides just say everything their side does that normal people would consider horrific is fake. And there's plenty on both sides.
what EXACTLY has been "fake" from the Israeli side?
Additionally, the idea that this all just started relatively unprovoked is a lie, both sides have been killing civilians from the other side for decades.
This is such bull**** and only a reason for you to hold onto an anti-Israeli view point. Show me one time Israel has killed Palestinian civilians unprovoked and I'll show you a hundred of the Palestinians doing it to Israelis.


Ok. From times of Israel - 151 Palestinians died in the conflict last year (PA claims 167), versus 27 Israelites. Most estimates of the deaths this month have Israeli deaths at 1,500 and Palestinian deaths around 3,000.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/2022-shaping-up-to-be-deadliest-for-israelis-and-palestinians-in-years/amp/

Excerpts from the article:

Several bystanders have been killed amid the gun battles too, such as Al Jazeera reporter Shireen Abu Akleh, who was accidentally shot dead by an Israeli soldier during a raid in Jenin in May.

On Sunday night, a 16-year-old girl, Jana Zakarna, was apparently shot dead by an Israeli soldier as she was on a rooftop in Jenin, amid an armed clash between troops and Palestinian gunmen.

In the cases of Abu Akleh, Zakarna, and Omar Assad a Palestinian who had a heart attack and died after being arrested and later abandoned by troops Israeli officials and even the army have apologized for their deaths.

But there have also been Palestinians killed in murkier circumstances, such as Ammar Shafiq Abu Afifa, an unarmed 19-year-old student who was shot dead after running away from troops who sought to question him. The IDF did not say he sought to commit an attack or was otherwise wanted for questioning.

Excerpt from United Nations report in 2022

Reiterating the United Nations steadfast support to both sides in achieving a sustainable peace, he outlined recent developments on the ground, noting that a total of 14 Palestinians were killed between 8 December 2022 and 13 January 2023, and another 117 were injured by Israeli security forces. Israeli settlers or other civilians perpetrated 63 attacks against Palestinians resulting in 28 injuries, including six children. According to Israeli sources, five Israeli civilians and four security forces personnel were injured by Palestinians in attacks, clashes, the throwing of stones and Molotov cocktails, and other incidents. Palestinians perpetrated a total of 89 attacks against Israeli civilians during the reporting period.


Who provoked it?

Again, show me where Israel has just killed Palestinians because it was a Tuesday?


What? Every death I just listed was the result of something that happened earlier. This conflict has been ongoing for 70 years. You wouldn't consider going to some family farm that they have been on for generations and just forcibly taking it over and forcing them off provocative? That doesn't justify Palestinian murders of Israelis but 99% of the violence in this conflict and every conflict has some form of internal justification from the perpetrator. I bet you think every time or most of the time an Israeli kills a Palestinian it's totally justified. That's…laughable is the wrong word but it's very ignorant. And what BLM is saying the other way is also ignorant.

Regardless - The most important thing in this conflict is that America doesn't take a side and get ourselves into another Middle East mess. We need Trump, the only candidate that doesn't seem to be pounding the war drum.




If the argument you're clumsily attempting to make puts you even remotely on the side of the group who just massacred 1,500+ civilians, including infants and grandparents, you should probably stop.


"What? Every death I just listed was the result of something that happened earlier. This conflict has been ongoing for 70 years.

You wouldn't consider going to some family farm that they have been on for generations and just forcibly taking it over and forcing them off provocative?

That doesn't justify German murders of Jews and Poles- but 99% of the violence in this conflict and every conflict has some form of internal justification from the perpetrator.

I bet you think every time or most of the time a British soldier kills a German it's totally justified. That's…laughable is the wrong word but it's very ignorant. And what Berlin is saying the other way is also ignorant.


Regardless - The most important thing in this conflict is that America doesn't take a side and get ourselves into another European mess. We need Lindbergh, the only candidate that doesn't seem to be pounding the war drum."

same poster in early 1941 defending the Nazis.


Quick, somebody is insinuating that Jews are not 100% in the moral right all the time - better bring up WW2!! Never heard that one before. There's a genocide happening between Armenia and Azerbaijan right now, should we intervene there? How about all the human smuggling and child slavery and warring tribes in Africa? Let's bomb Zambia!!

For the record, yes I believe WW2 could have largely been avoided, "Hitler, Churchill, and the Unnecessary War" by Pat Buchanan is a great book on the subject.

If you can't see why having a stabilizing western nation in the ME as an ally, then that's poor vision from you. I'm sure Israel is not 100% clean, but there is a significant difference between actively targeting civs (Hamas) and pre-warning civs to hopefully get them out of harms way (Israel). I mean it doesn't take more than just an average IQ to figure this one out.
JobSecurity
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AG
and here we go

Pinochet
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JobSecurity said:

and here we go



Gives him a chance to direct focus to the SOTH issues.
Sims
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JobSecurity said:

and here we go


Supplying weapons to wars you aren't physically involved in is seen as stimulative and mostly acceptable to their constituency by politicians in DC.
Furlock Bones
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TXaggiesTX said:




Quick, somebody is insinuating that Jews are not 100% in the moral right all the time - better bring up WW2!! Never heard that one before. There's a genocide happening between Armenia and Azerbaijan right now, should we intervene there? How about all the human smuggling and child slavery and warring tribes in Africa? Let's bomb Zambia!!

For the record, yes I believe WW2 could have largely been avoided, "Hitler, Churchill, and the Unnecessary War" by Pat Buchanan is a great book on the subject.
Hitler was already sending Jews, Gypsies, and other people they didn't like to prison camps and methodically killing them before the start of the war. How again would WW2 have been avoided?
Texas velvet maestro
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Rossticus said:

Texas velvet maestro said:

no comment. but here's scott ritter's not positive forecast.

go to beginning of stream.




Pedo convict expat now Russian resident and persistent propagandist shill Scott Ritter? I guess at least having awareness of the propaganda sanctioned by a source who also supports Hamas has value I guess? Apart from that, though, this guy's analysis on everything is trash.
I don't know as much about him as you do, and I've been avoiding the Xs and Os, but he lays out a ground invasion scenario that doesn't sound great for Israel. And I remember him saying early on when folks were predicting a win in Ukraine, that would not happen. so he was mostly right about that.
Stat Monitor Repairman
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Just to recap, we've now seen a 'day of unprecedented anger' followed by a unprecedented aid package.
Rapier108
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Texas velvet maestro said:

no comment. but here's scott ritter's not positive forecast.

go to beginning of stream.


Scott Ritter is wrong all the time; has been about Ukraine since it all started.

Why this guy keeps getting held up as some kind of expert defies logic.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
Rossticus
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Texas velvet maestro said:

Rossticus said:

Texas velvet maestro said:

no comment. but here's scott ritter's not positive forecast.

go to beginning of stream.




Pedo convict expat now Russian resident and persistent propagandist shill Scott Ritter? I guess at least having awareness of the propaganda sanctioned by a source who also supports Hamas has value I guess? Apart from that, though, this guy's analysis on everything is trash.
I don't know as much about him as you do, and I've been avoiding the Xs and Os, but he lays out a ground invasion scenario that doesn't sound great for Israel. And I remember him saying early on when folks were predicting a win in Ukraine, that would not happen. so he was mostly right about that.


If you look at the actual details of what he's predicted, and when/why he's predicted it, he's been consistently wrong about just about everything he's weighed in on. I expect this to be no different.
Line Ate Member
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AG
doubledog said:

Evacuate the women, children and elderly from Gaza and take them to the West Bank, Egypt or whoever will have them. Any one remaining is fair game.
The issue is that a large portion of the populace in Gaza has been radicalized. Look at previous videos of children in elementary aged classrooms spouting out Hamas rhetoric.

Moving that population anywhere will destabilize wherever they go. Why do no other Arab countries want to take the refugees in?
Waffledynamics
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Quote:

UNRWA: We no longer have any water or food to provide to the people of the Gaza Strip
https://israelpalestine.liveuamap.com/en/2023/18-october-unrwa-we-no-longer-have-any-water-or-food-to-provide
LMCane
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White House: Overhead imagery, intercepts and open source info show Israel not behind Gaza hospital blast

By JACOB MAGID

"While we continue to collect information, our current assessment, based on analysis of overhead imagery,

intercepts and open source information, is that Israel is not responsible for the explosion at the hospital in Gaza yesterday,"

White House National Security Council spokesperson Adrienne Watson says in a statement.

Palestinians again kill their own people
Rapier108
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TXaggiesTX said:

LMCane said:

J. Walter Weatherman said:

TXaggiesTX said:

RGLAG85 said:

TXaggiesTX said:

RGLAG85 said:

TXaggiesTX said:

LMCane said:

TXaggiesTX said:

FireAg said:

There's very little chance the Israelis hit a hospital…

The ME wants full scale war with the West…


From listening to Morons like Lindsey Graham and Nikki Haley it certainly seems like America is the one itching for war. Didn't Janet Yellen just say "we can afford 2 wars". Insane.

Talking about this conflict is impossible because both sides just say everything their side does that normal people would consider horrific is fake. And there's plenty on both sides.
what EXACTLY has been "fake" from the Israeli side?
Additionally, the idea that this all just started relatively unprovoked is a lie, both sides have been killing civilians from the other side for decades.
This is such bull**** and only a reason for you to hold onto an anti-Israeli view point. Show me one time Israel has killed Palestinian civilians unprovoked and I'll show you a hundred of the Palestinians doing it to Israelis.


Ok. From times of Israel - 151 Palestinians died in the conflict last year (PA claims 167), versus 27 Israelites. Most estimates of the deaths this month have Israeli deaths at 1,500 and Palestinian deaths around 3,000.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/2022-shaping-up-to-be-deadliest-for-israelis-and-palestinians-in-years/amp/

Excerpts from the article:

Several bystanders have been killed amid the gun battles too, such as Al Jazeera reporter Shireen Abu Akleh, who was accidentally shot dead by an Israeli soldier during a raid in Jenin in May.

On Sunday night, a 16-year-old girl, Jana Zakarna, was apparently shot dead by an Israeli soldier as she was on a rooftop in Jenin, amid an armed clash between troops and Palestinian gunmen.

In the cases of Abu Akleh, Zakarna, and Omar Assad a Palestinian who had a heart attack and died after being arrested and later abandoned by troops Israeli officials and even the army have apologized for their deaths.

But there have also been Palestinians killed in murkier circumstances, such as Ammar Shafiq Abu Afifa, an unarmed 19-year-old student who was shot dead after running away from troops who sought to question him. The IDF did not say he sought to commit an attack or was otherwise wanted for questioning.

Excerpt from United Nations report in 2022

Reiterating the United Nations steadfast support to both sides in achieving a sustainable peace, he outlined recent developments on the ground, noting that a total of 14 Palestinians were killed between 8 December 2022 and 13 January 2023, and another 117 were injured by Israeli security forces. Israeli settlers or other civilians perpetrated 63 attacks against Palestinians resulting in 28 injuries, including six children. According to Israeli sources, five Israeli civilians and four security forces personnel were injured by Palestinians in attacks, clashes, the throwing of stones and Molotov cocktails, and other incidents. Palestinians perpetrated a total of 89 attacks against Israeli civilians during the reporting period.


Who provoked it?

Again, show me where Israel has just killed Palestinians because it was a Tuesday?


What? Every death I just listed was the result of something that happened earlier. This conflict has been ongoing for 70 years. You wouldn't consider going to some family farm that they have been on for generations and just forcibly taking it over and forcing them off provocative? That doesn't justify Palestinian murders of Israelis but 99% of the violence in this conflict and every conflict has some form of internal justification from the perpetrator. I bet you think every time or most of the time an Israeli kills a Palestinian it's totally justified. That's…laughable is the wrong word but it's very ignorant. And what BLM is saying the other way is also ignorant.

Regardless - The most important thing in this conflict is that America doesn't take a side and get ourselves into another Middle East mess. We need Trump, the only candidate that doesn't seem to be pounding the war drum.




If the argument you're clumsily attempting to make puts you even remotely on the side of the group who just massacred 1,500+ civilians, including infants and grandparents, you should probably stop.


"What? Every death I just listed was the result of something that happened earlier. This conflict has been ongoing for 70 years.

You wouldn't consider going to some family farm that they have been on for generations and just forcibly taking it over and forcing them off provocative?

That doesn't justify German murders of Jews and Poles- but 99% of the violence in this conflict and every conflict has some form of internal justification from the perpetrator.

I bet you think every time or most of the time a British soldier kills a German it's totally justified. That's…laughable is the wrong word but it's very ignorant. And what Berlin is saying the other way is also ignorant.


Regardless - The most important thing in this conflict is that America doesn't take a side and get ourselves into another European mess. We need Lindbergh, the only candidate that doesn't seem to be pounding the war drum."

same poster in early 1941 defending the Nazis.


Quick, somebody is insinuating that Jews are not 100% in the moral right all the time - better bring up WW2!! Never heard that one before. There's a genocide happening between Armenia and Azerbaijan right now, should we intervene there? How about all the human smuggling and child slavery and warring tribes in Africa? Let's bomb Zambia!!

For the record, yes I believe WW2 could have largely been avoided, "Hitler, Churchill, and the Unnecessary War" by Pat Buchanan is a great book on the subject.
WWII was an inevitability due to how WWI ended. This is why many historians consider WWI and WWII to be the same war, with just a 20 year pause.

And using Pat Buchanan on WWII is a bad idea; the guy never missed a chance to try to soften the image of the Nazis.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
LMCane
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Catag94 said:

LMCane said:

TKEAg04 said:

Catag94 said:

So, I'm busy at work and admittedly barely keeping up. Can someone fill in a few blanks?

1-Rocket hit near or at hospital
2- Rocket seemingly hit in parking lot and video this morning shows this.
3- Hamas immediately blamed Israel and precipitated the same from other ME countries and Palestinian sympathizers.
4-Evidence has seemingly shown this was propaganda and that Hana's actually failed a missile launch and knows it (internal communications support this)

Did the hospital actually explode and are there daytime pics if this?

Has there been any confirmation of anywhere close to "500 casualties"?
Everything is correct except there wasn't an explosion. I saw a bunch of videos being passed around last night on twitter that seemed to show detonation of a bomb, but there is no crater, no buildings were leveled, and no windows were blown out. What it does show is that a rocket fell in a parking lot and caused a small fire.
one other correction-

Israel believes it was a missile that failed as part of a missile barrage from Islamic Jihad, not Hamas.

it's hard to keep up with the different terror organizations in Gaza.


Real question: Is there a meaningful difference here? Isn't Hamas in essence engaged in Jihad?


It's like the difference between Al Qaeda and the Islamic State.

or University of Texas and Alabama football.

Just two different teams in the same league.
Furlock Bones
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Line Ate Member said:

doubledog said:

Evacuate the women, children and elderly from Gaza and take them to the West Bank, Egypt or whoever will have them. Any one remaining is fair game.
The issue is that a large portion of the populace in Gaza has been radicalized. Look at previous videos of children in elementary aged classrooms spouting out Hamas rhetoric.

Moving that population anywhere will destabilize wherever they go. Why do no other Arab countries want to take the refugees in?
they incessantly talk about the average age of the population in Gaza. that is by Hamas design. encourage large families. used them as human shields for online rage bait. radicalize the rest.
Definitely Not A Cop
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TXaggiesTX said:

LMCane said:

J. Walter Weatherman said:

TXaggiesTX said:

RGLAG85 said:

TXaggiesTX said:

RGLAG85 said:

TXaggiesTX said:

LMCane said:

TXaggiesTX said:

FireAg said:

There's very little chance the Israelis hit a hospital…

The ME wants full scale war with the West…


From listening to Morons like Lindsey Graham and Nikki Haley it certainly seems like America is the one itching for war. Didn't Janet Yellen just say "we can afford 2 wars". Insane.

Talking about this conflict is impossible because both sides just say everything their side does that normal people would consider horrific is fake. And there's plenty on both sides.
what EXACTLY has been "fake" from the Israeli side?
Additionally, the idea that this all just started relatively unprovoked is a lie, both sides have been killing civilians from the other side for decades.
This is such bull**** and only a reason for you to hold onto an anti-Israeli view point. Show me one time Israel has killed Palestinian civilians unprovoked and I'll show you a hundred of the Palestinians doing it to Israelis.


Ok. From times of Israel - 151 Palestinians died in the conflict last year (PA claims 167), versus 27 Israelites. Most estimates of the deaths this month have Israeli deaths at 1,500 and Palestinian deaths around 3,000.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/2022-shaping-up-to-be-deadliest-for-israelis-and-palestinians-in-years/amp/

Excerpts from the article:

Several bystanders have been killed amid the gun battles too, such as Al Jazeera reporter Shireen Abu Akleh, who was accidentally shot dead by an Israeli soldier during a raid in Jenin in May.

On Sunday night, a 16-year-old girl, Jana Zakarna, was apparently shot dead by an Israeli soldier as she was on a rooftop in Jenin, amid an armed clash between troops and Palestinian gunmen.

In the cases of Abu Akleh, Zakarna, and Omar Assad a Palestinian who had a heart attack and died after being arrested and later abandoned by troops Israeli officials and even the army have apologized for their deaths.

But there have also been Palestinians killed in murkier circumstances, such as Ammar Shafiq Abu Afifa, an unarmed 19-year-old student who was shot dead after running away from troops who sought to question him. The IDF did not say he sought to commit an attack or was otherwise wanted for questioning.

Excerpt from United Nations report in 2022

Reiterating the United Nations steadfast support to both sides in achieving a sustainable peace, he outlined recent developments on the ground, noting that a total of 14 Palestinians were killed between 8 December 2022 and 13 January 2023, and another 117 were injured by Israeli security forces. Israeli settlers or other civilians perpetrated 63 attacks against Palestinians resulting in 28 injuries, including six children. According to Israeli sources, five Israeli civilians and four security forces personnel were injured by Palestinians in attacks, clashes, the throwing of stones and Molotov cocktails, and other incidents. Palestinians perpetrated a total of 89 attacks against Israeli civilians during the reporting period.


Who provoked it?

Again, show me where Israel has just killed Palestinians because it was a Tuesday?


What? Every death I just listed was the result of something that happened earlier. This conflict has been ongoing for 70 years. You wouldn't consider going to some family farm that they have been on for generations and just forcibly taking it over and forcing them off provocative? That doesn't justify Palestinian murders of Israelis but 99% of the violence in this conflict and every conflict has some form of internal justification from the perpetrator. I bet you think every time or most of the time an Israeli kills a Palestinian it's totally justified. That's…laughable is the wrong word but it's very ignorant. And what BLM is saying the other way is also ignorant.

Regardless - The most important thing in this conflict is that America doesn't take a side and get ourselves into another Middle East mess. We need Trump, the only candidate that doesn't seem to be pounding the war drum.




If the argument you're clumsily attempting to make puts you even remotely on the side of the group who just massacred 1,500+ civilians, including infants and grandparents, you should probably stop.


"What? Every death I just listed was the result of something that happened earlier. This conflict has been ongoing for 70 years.

You wouldn't consider going to some family farm that they have been on for generations and just forcibly taking it over and forcing them off provocative?

That doesn't justify German murders of Jews and Poles- but 99% of the violence in this conflict and every conflict has some form of internal justification from the perpetrator.

I bet you think every time or most of the time a British soldier kills a German it's totally justified. That's…laughable is the wrong word but it's very ignorant. And what Berlin is saying the other way is also ignorant.


Regardless - The most important thing in this conflict is that America doesn't take a side and get ourselves into another European mess. We need Lindbergh, the only candidate that doesn't seem to be pounding the war drum."

same poster in early 1941 defending the Nazis.


Quick, somebody is insinuating that Jews are not 100% in the moral right all the time - better bring up WW2!! Never heard that one before. There's a genocide happening between Armenia and Azerbaijan right now, should we intervene there? How about all the human smuggling and child slavery and warring tribes in Africa? Let's bomb Zambia!!

For the record, yes I believe WW2 could have largely been avoided, "Hitler, Churchill, and the Unnecessary War" by Pat Buchanan is a great book on the subject.


The difference is that there are 27 US citizens dead from Gaza. There are at least 13 still being held hostage. This is the deadliest terrorist attack on the US since 9/11. Simping for the people doing it is disgusting. We all understand the context, you are the one willfully ignoring it.
Rossticus
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LMCane said:

White House: Overhead imagery, intercepts and open source info show Israel not behind Gaza hospital blast

By JACOB MAGID

"While we continue to collect information, our current assessment, based on analysis of overhead imagery,

intercepts and open source information, is that Israel is not responsible for the explosion at the hospital in Gaza yesterday,"

White House National Security Council spokesperson Adrienne Watson says in a statement.

Palestinians again kill their own people


We all know that the usual suspects as well as the global horde of pro-Hamas morons will completely ignore that and continue with the cacophony of "zomg!!! Israel killed eleventy billion children in a hospital!!".
Sea Speed
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LMCane said:

Catag94 said:

LMCane said:

TKEAg04 said:

Catag94 said:

So, I'm busy at work and admittedly barely keeping up. Can someone fill in a few blanks?

1-Rocket hit near or at hospital
2- Rocket seemingly hit in parking lot and video this morning shows this.
3- Hamas immediately blamed Israel and precipitated the same from other ME countries and Palestinian sympathizers.
4-Evidence has seemingly shown this was propaganda and that Hana's actually failed a missile launch and knows it (internal communications support this)

Did the hospital actually explode and are there daytime pics if this?

Has there been any confirmation of anywhere close to "500 casualties"?
Everything is correct except there wasn't an explosion. I saw a bunch of videos being passed around last night on twitter that seemed to show detonation of a bomb, but there is no crater, no buildings were leveled, and no windows were blown out. What it does show is that a rocket fell in a parking lot and caused a small fire.
one other correction-

Israel believes it was a missile that failed as part of a missile barrage from Islamic Jihad, not Hamas.

it's hard to keep up with the different terror organizations in Gaza.


Real question: Is there a meaningful difference here? Isn't Hamas in essence engaged in Jihad?


It's like the difference between Al Qaeda and the Islamic State.

or University of Texas and Alabama football.

Just two different teams in the same league.


Except Alabama and Texas aren't in the same league.
LMCane
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aggiehawg
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AG
Anyone have a live feed? Been searching for a while now. TIA.
Biz Ag
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Rossticus said:


These guys look like they're posing for high school yearbook photos. Bizarre.
Texas velvet maestro
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Rossticus said:

Texas velvet maestro said:

Rossticus said:

Texas velvet maestro said:

no comment. but here's scott ritter's not positive forecast.

go to beginning of stream.




Pedo convict expat now Russian resident and persistent propagandist shill Scott Ritter? I guess at least having awareness of the propaganda sanctioned by a source who also supports Hamas has value I guess? Apart from that, though, this guy's analysis on everything is trash.
I don't know as much about him as you do, and I've been avoiding the Xs and Os, but he lays out a ground invasion scenario that doesn't sound great for Israel. And I remember him saying early on when folks were predicting a win in Ukraine, that would not happen. so he was mostly right about that.


If you look at the actual details of what he's predicted, and when/why he's predicted it, he's been consistently wrong about just about everything he's weighed in on. I expect this to be no different.
I shall look into it. I know he's opposed the neo/lib/con establishment and that he's generally anti-war which means powerful people are anti-ritter, so I will try and find a balanced look at what he has said and done.
But to paraphrase, he thinks the Palestinians wanted urban warfare and are prepared.
Rossticus
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I think he's attributing too much prescient forethought to the Palestinians knowing that this is how things would go. I don't think they expected this degree of response and I think that they were convinced by the other nations/organizations that aided and encouraged them that assistance would be quickly forthcoming once any Israeli operation against Gaza was initiated.

I don't think they went into this anticipating or attempting to instigate isolated, unassisted urban warfare with the IDF.

And as far as Ritter being "anti-war", he's not opposed to war. He's opposed to resistance. He's expressed no opposition to Russian aggressive action in the past. He only opposes the conflict that arises from a refusal by the other side to capitulate/appease. That's not anti-war. That's pro-surrender. The next time he criticizes Russia for taking aggressive military action will be the first.

I haven't looked but I'd be surprised if he's condemned Hamas's attack outright. If I'm wrong on that, let me know. I'm now legitimately interested.
Texas velvet maestro
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Rossticus said:

I think he's attributing too much prescient forethought to the Palestinians knowing that this is how things would go. I don't think they expected this degree of response and I think that they were convinced by the other nations/organizations that aided and encouraged them that assistance would be quickly forthcoming once any Israeli operation against Gaza was initiated.

I don't think they went into this anticipating or attempting to instigate isolated, unassisted urban warfare with the IDF.
That is what caught me off guard, the concept that the "terror" operation was the tip of the iceberg in a much deeper operation.
And then the idea that this thing might spark over a million military enlistments in Iran.
rab79
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AG
Quote:

Again, show me where Israel has just killed Palestinians because it was a Tuesday?
Given all the muslims with degrees from A&M who here is surprised a poster with an ag tag supports the palestinians?
Who?mikejones!
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https://instagr.am/p/Cyi3rIRroD0

Quote:

note - all findings aside from the Audio which is IDF have been independently researched including audio analysis and geolocation.
Iv really spent some time on Project Owl and a couple other OSINT sites looking at their study of the hospital hit and I'm fairly damn confident at this point it was a misfired rocket that hit the hospital. The initial damage report of the hospital seems to be completely off with the explosion seeming to have taken place in a parking lot and no buildings visibly demolished. Photos taken of the site in the morning have been released, it confirms it was in no way a JDAM that hit the site but a much smaller munition. The shrapnel pattern from the blast when correlated to the geolocated images indicate the blast came from a direction within Gaza.
The audio Israel claims to have intercepted which states it was fired from a cemetery compound behind the hospital adds up with the direction but not the location as the cemetery seems to be closer.
The audio from the " close in video " didn't add up with the distance from the blast and didn't match audio patterns with other recordings of the same blast.
There's now multiple pieces of footage showing a rocket barrage followed by an explosion outside the hospital.
On average around 200 of every 1000 rockets fired fall short and add that to the fact these are home made rockets for the most part. Ima keep posting up findings.
Who?mikejones!
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ABATTBQ11
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AG
Texas velvet maestro said:

Rossticus said:

Texas velvet maestro said:

no comment. but here's scott ritter's not positive forecast.

go to beginning of stream.




Pedo convict expat now Russian resident and persistent propagandist shill Scott Ritter? I guess at least having awareness of the propaganda sanctioned by a source who also supports Hamas has value I guess? Apart from that, though, this guy's analysis on everything is trash.
I don't know as much about him as you do, and I've been avoiding the Xs and Os, but he lays out a ground invasion scenario that doesn't sound great for Israel. And I remember him saying early on when folks were predicting a win in Ukraine, that would not happen. so he was mostly right about that.


He wasn't right about **** in Ukraine. He was predicting everything would be over quickly and Ukraine would fold at the outset. Then he kept changing his predictions and moving total Russian victory further and further out until he changed it to, "Russia has what they wanted at the start and had they effectively won because Ukraine hasn't made them leave yet."

And that war isn't even over. Ukraine has stalled, but they're actively picking apart Russia's artillery and ability to resist. Russia's spectacularly failed attacks on Avdiika sure they can't really mount an offensive. ATACMS and GLSDB will help that further. Not going to say they'll change it overnight, but Russian airfields and munitions storage are going to have to move even further back. Bridges and infrastructure that used to be safe are going to come under threat. Ukraine is definitely headed in a more positive direction than Russia, and if things continue on, they'll eventually push them out.

Ritter has been absolutely wrong on just about everything Ukraine, just like anything else involving Russia or their allies, because he's nothing but a shill.
aggiehawg
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AG


Seen potholes bigger than that.
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