Israel/Hamas going at it

1,876,961 Views | 10654 Replies | Last: 2 days ago by fc2112
FrankK
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Pumpkinhead
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Israel govt in previous times was actually helping fund Hamas because they didn't want the Palestinians unified for a 2-State solution and were looking to weaken the PLA. And…it backfired. The enemy of our enemy who we thus treated as a friend was our enemy. We've had the same sort of thing backfire on us. Once upon a time, Bin Laden was using U.S. weapons to kill Soviets.
P.U.T.U
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For a while Israel did make the decision of the enemy of my enemy is not my friend but they reverted back to it recently and it backfired on them.

If Israel does a campaign through Gaza they have to maintain a strong force there or a new, more powerful enemy will rise up like ISIS did in Iraq. Seems like everything depends on how much Iran tells their proxies to do on how long this conflict will last.
CDUB98
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[You continue with derail comments even after several were removed. This thread is to provide ongoing updates and discussion relevant to the conflict between Israel and Hamas. Cluttering it with one-off unrelated posts is inconsiderate to other posters -- Staff]
Stat Monitor Repairman
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US is like the school nurse here. Warning Israel against and dispensing its own self-help medication.

If there is medication to be dispensed, you must go to the school, nurse and they will dispense it.

Watching all this go down, you get a sense that the US has a plan for all this and is trying to keep this trucking along with bumper pads on the bowling lane. Very much tip-toeing around all of these issues. Playing both sides. US is white knuckling all of this.

God only knows what we are about to see go down.
JonSnow
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Arabs hate Palestinians with a passion. They just hate the Jews a slight bit more.
UAS Ag
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DeangeloVickers said:

Real leadership...


Nothing says "We really REALLY care about the plight of the Palestinian people!!!" quite like saying KEEP OUT!!!!
Squadron7
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The entire Arab world seems to regard the Palestinians as a bunch of Saturday night farts at a Sunday garden party.

Why is that, I wonder?
LMCane
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buzzardb267 said:

Does Hamas not have Stingers or other anti-aircraft weapons? Or any other bad actors in the region for that matter. You never hear of any IDF aircraft being shot down or even shot at. And announcing the POTUS time table like that....seems sketchy.

If they have weapons from Ukraine, it seems like they could have thrown in a handful of those for good measure.
an IAF F-15 was shot down 3 or 4 years ago by the Syrian SAM systems but was able to crash land in Israeli territory and the pilot successfully ejected

but yes, Hizbullah has a lot of different MANPADS and the Syrians have some advanced Russian SAM S-400 like the Iranians do.
LMCane
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Pumpkinhead said:

Israel govt in previous times was actually helping fund Hamas because they didn't want the Palestinians unified for a 2-State solution and were looking to weaken the PLA. And…it backfired. The enemy of our enemy who we thus treated as a friend was our enemy. We've had the same sort of thing backfire on us. Once upon a time, Bin Laden was using U.S. weapons to kill Soviets.
that's baldly incorrect.

the Israelis have never funded Hamas.

please prove where in the budget of the Israeli government it lists "support to Hamas"
LMCane
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BBRex said:

You can call it revenge, but Israeli leaders know that the country won't stand for less than the complete dismantling of Hamas. I don't think the public will stand for the standard response from the Israeli government when Hamas is raping kids and killing grandparents, especially Holocaust survivors. They might be ramping up slower than we like, but they will pound the hell out of Hamas.
partially revenge-

but do you arrest murderers and rapists for "revenge" or to get them to stop murdering and raping?

when the same terrorists are 4 miles away from you that just murdered hundreds of women and children-

it's not revenge to go kill them- it's defending yourself from the next attack.
LMCane
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Pinochet said:

fixer said:

The longer they wait for any reason the longer Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran have to prepare.

They should have gone in day one and started wrecking face.

We know they've been preparing for a year or two. What does an extra week get them? Especially if that week includes 8000 air strikes?
some apparently only believe that preparations help Hamas.

and not the 160,000 Israeli men and women who have flown back into the country and rejoined their military units.
Mowdy Ag
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CDUB98 said:

If Hamas was dumb enough to shoot down AF1, I cannot imagine the hell that would be unleashed upon them. You'd then have a not insignificant amount of Dems joining Repubs in wanting to raze Gaza into the sea.

...you mean we wouldn't have be a "proportionate" response?
P.U.T.U
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Someone correct me if I am wrong but I think Russia has not sold any S400 missile systems to anyone, they have them in countries like Syria but they are supposed to be operated by Russian soldiers. Iran tried to copy the S400 with the Bavar-373 but from what I saw it is closer to the S300. The S300 export ban ended in 2015 so countries like China and Iran have been trying to reverse engineer/improve it since then. Iran has provided the Bavar to Syria so who knows who else in the region may have some.

At the end of the day they are decent anti-aircraft weapons but as we have seen in Ukraine not great at shooting down missiles like the Stormshadows. Unless the war continues out of Gaza I don't think SAMs are going to be much of a threat for Israeli aircraft
samurai_science
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LMCane said:

Pinochet said:

fixer said:

The longer they wait for any reason the longer Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran have to prepare.

They should have gone in day one and started wrecking face.

We know they've been preparing for a year or two. What does an extra week get them? Especially if that week includes 8000 air strikes?
some apparently only believe that preparations help Hamas.

and not the 160,000 Israeli men and women who have flown back into the country and rejoined their military units.
Look how long it took for Israel to mobilize when they got sneak attacked during the Yom Kippur war, it takes time.
JobSecurity
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taking this with a very large grain of salt for now. Same hospital they warned about? Seems like there would be footage of something like this.. Hamas would use this for propaganda instantly

Sims
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Did it say if they were in or under the hospital?
JobSecurity
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aggiehawg
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So Egypt and Jordan are both saying no to any Palestinian refugees.
samurai_science
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aggiehawg said:



So Egypt and Jordan are both saying no to any Palestinian refugees.
As they always have
P.U.T.U
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I am not on social media platforms but coworker said there are reports of Hamas having a failed rocket attack which caused more rockets to explode. I wouldn't put it past Hamas to have rockets that close to a hospital.
will25u
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JDUB08AG
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I mean they had what, 6 days to evacuate the hospital?
AnScAggie
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aggiehawg said:



So Egypt and Jordan are both saying no to any Palestinian refugees.

I'm sure some people in certain European countries and the US are just salivating at the opportunity to take in Palestinian refugees for social street cred points. But if the people that know them best are saying absolutely HELL NO, we should probably listen to them.
LMCane
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Another Hamas Gaza Commander gets his 72 virgins

fasthorse05
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Not enough blue stars!
Hate is how progressives sustain themselves. Without hate, introspection begins to slip into the progressive's consciousness, threatening the progressive with the truth: that their ideas and opinions are illogical, hypocritical, dangerous, and asinine.
This is backed by data.
LMCane
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P.U.T.U said:

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I think Russia has not sold any S400 missile systems to anyone, they have them in countries like Syria but they are supposed to be operated by Russian soldiers. Iran tried to copy the S400 with the Bavar-373 but from what I saw it is closer to the S300. The S300 export ban ended in 2015 so countries like China and Iran have been trying to reverse engineer/improve it since then. Iran has provided the Bavar to Syria so who knows who else in the region may have some.

At the end of the day they are decent anti-aircraft weapons but as we have seen in Ukraine not great at shooting down missiles like the Stormshadows. Unless the war continues out of Gaza I don't think SAMs are going to be much of a threat for Israeli aircraft

seeing as how Iran is in the same trench with the Russkies right now, my guess is that Iran is getting those S-400s since they asked for them 10 months ago:

"Iran has requested a new air-defense system, S-400s, from Russia, which could prove problematic for Israel.

Russia has yet to publicly confirm if it will supply the S-400s in question. If supplied, Iran will need only two years for the system to become operational.

The S-400 is a mobile, surface-to-air missile system created by Russia. It engages with aircrafts, unmanned aerial vehicles, and cruise missiles. It also has a terminal ballistic missile defense capability, according to the Center for Strategic and International studies."

Iran probably already has the S-400
JobSecurity
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P.U.T.U said:

I am not on social media platforms but coworker said there are reports of Hamas having a failed rocket attack which caused more rockets to explode. I wouldn't put it past Hamas to have rockets that close to a hospital.
Yeah both sides are blaming the other as to be expected. Doubt we'll ever know for sure

Supposedly this is the explosion. Why do you think they'd be filming there? Wonder if they were firing rockets out prior to when this clip starts. Cant think of any other reason

Faustus
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DeangeloVickers said:

Real leadership...


There are already 2 million or so Palestinian refugees in Jordan (1.5 million of which are now citizens of Jordan), which is about the population of the entire Gaza Strip.

https://www.unrwa.org/where-we-work/jordan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Jordan

Jordan also has about 1.7 million Syrian refugees. Jordan hosts more refugees than any other country in the world, while only having a total population just over 11 million.

You can see why the King would prefer not to have additional refugees, not even taking into account there would be no way for them to get there from Gaza apart from a circuitous route through Egypt - which won't open its border even if Jordan asked it to.

samurai_science
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Faustus said:

DeangeloVickers said:

Real leadership...


There are already 2 million or so Palestinian refugees in Jordan (1.5 million of which are now citizens of Jordan), which is about the population of the entire Gaza Strip.

https://www.unrwa.org/where-we-work/jordan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Jordan

Jordan also has about 1.7 million Syrian refugees. Jordan hosts more refugees than any other country in the world, while only having a total population just over 11 million.

You can see why the King would prefer not to have additional refugees, not even taking into account there would be no way for them to get there from Gaza apart from a circuitous route through Egypt - which won't open its border even if Jordan asked it to.


Except the reason is they are savages and cause trouble in Jordan, nice try though.
74OA
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Very interesting look at how Hamas' strategy is based on "lawfare." Worth reading, particularly the second half.

"John Kirby, the U.S. National Security Council spokesman, was correct today when he said that Hamas' urging of Palestinians in Gaza to remain at home means Hamas is using these civilians as human shields. The use of human shields is a war crime. Hamas is engaging in this war crime in order to facilitate falsely accusing the Israel Defense Forces of engaging in war crimes, such as the deliberate killing of civilians."

LAWFARE
PJYoung
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JW said:

we will be doing this again in 5-10 years.


No matter what
No Spin Ag
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PJYoung said:

JW said:

we will be doing this again in 5-10 years.


No matter what


If so it'll be intentional and those will benefit will be those in charge and those who makes money off of rebuilding and replacing everything that gets used and destroyed in the next few weeks.

There's no reason this should happen again, unless it's new design.
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
Line Ate Member
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74OA said:

Very interesting look at how Hamas' strategy is based on "lawfare." Worth reading, particularly the second half.

"John Kirby, the U.S. National Security Council spokesman, was correct today when he said that Hamas' urging of Palestinians in Gaza to remain at home means Hamas is using these civilians as human shields. The use of human shields is a war crime. Hamas is engaging in this war crime in order to facilitate falsely accusing the Israel Defense Forces of engaging in war crimes, such as the deliberate killing of civilians."

LAWFARE
when your religion and way of life glorified becoming a martyr for "the cause", is it really a war crime.

And yes. Yes it is a war crime.
Isosceles_Kramer
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https://reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/WpTCqXPLZA

Supposed video of failed rocket launch by hamas hit hospital
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