Israel govt in previous times was actually helping fund Hamas because they didn't want the Palestinians unified for a 2-State solution and were looking to weaken the PLA. And…it backfired. The enemy of our enemy who we thus treated as a friend was our enemy. We've had the same sort of thing backfire on us. Once upon a time, Bin Laden was using U.S. weapons to kill Soviets.

For a while Israel did make the decision of the enemy of my enemy is not my friend but they reverted back to it recently and it backfired on them.

If Israel does a campaign through Gaza they have to maintain a strong force there or a new, more powerful enemy will rise up like ISIS did in Iraq. Seems like everything depends on how much Iran tells their proxies to do on how long this conflict will last.

[You continue with derail comments even after several were removed. This thread is to provide ongoing updates and discussion relevant to the conflict between Israel and Hamas. Cluttering it with one-off unrelated posts is inconsiderate to other posters -- Staff]

U.S. Defense Officials have reportedly convinced the Israeli Government not to launch a Preemptive Strike on Hezbollah Forces in Lebanon, with them promising that U.S. Naval Assets in the Eastern Mediterranean including the USS Gerald R. Ford Aircraft Carrier (CVN-78) will… pic.twitter.com/1CPN8XCbrz

— OSINTdefender (@sentdefender) October 16, 2023

US is like the school nurse here. Warning Israel against and dispensing its own self-help medication.

If there is medication to be dispensed, you must go to the school, nurse and they will dispense it.

Watching all this go down, you get a sense that the US has a plan for all this and is trying to keep this trucking along with bumper pads on the bowling lane. Very much tip-toeing around all of these issues. Playing both sides. US is white knuckling all of this.

God only knows what we are about to see go down.

The entire Arab world seems to regard the Palestinians as a bunch of Saturday night farts at a Sunday garden party.

Why is that, I wonder?

buzzardb267 said:

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Does Hamas not have Stingers or other anti-aircraft weapons? Or any other bad actors in the region for that matter. You never hear of any IDF aircraft being shot down or even shot at. And announcing the POTUS time table like that....seems sketchy.

If they have weapons from Ukraine, it seems like they could have thrown in a handful of those for good measure.

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an IAF F-15 was shot down 3 or 4 years ago by the Syrian SAM systems but was able to crash land in Israeli territory and the pilot successfully ejected

but yes, Hizbullah has a lot of different MANPADS and the Syrians have some advanced Russian SAM S-400 like the Iranians do.

Pumpkinhead said:

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Israel govt in previous times was actually helping fund Hamas because they didn't want the Palestinians unified for a 2-State solution and were looking to weaken the PLA. And…it backfired. The enemy of our enemy who we thus treated as a friend was our enemy. We've had the same sort of thing backfire on us. Once upon a time, Bin Laden was using U.S. weapons to kill Soviets.

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that's baldly incorrect.

the Israelis have never funded Hamas.

please prove where in the budget of the Israeli government it lists "support to Hamas"

Pinochet said:

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fixer said:

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The longer they wait for any reason the longer Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran have to prepare.

They should have gone in day one and started wrecking face.

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We know they've been preparing for a year or two. What does an extra week get them? Especially if that week includes 8000 air strikes?

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some apparently only believe that preparations help Hamas.

and not the 160,000 Israeli men and women who have flown back into the country and rejoined their military units.

CDUB98 said:

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If Hamas was dumb enough to shoot down AF1, I cannot imagine the hell that would be unleashed upon them. You'd then have a not insignificant amount of Dems joining Repubs in wanting to raze Gaza into the sea.

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...you mean we wouldn't have be a "proportionate" response?

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I think Russia has not sold any S400 missile systems to anyone, they have them in countries like Syria but they are supposed to be operated by Russian soldiers. Iran tried to copy the S400 with the Bavar-373 but from what I saw it is closer to the S300. The S300 export ban ended in 2015 so countries like China and Iran have been trying to reverse engineer/improve it since then. Iran has provided the Bavar to Syria so who knows who else in the region may have some.

At the end of the day they are decent anti-aircraft weapons but as we have seen in Ukraine not great at shooting down missiles like the Stormshadows. Unless the war continues out of Gaza I don't think SAMs are going to be much of a threat for Israeli aircraft

LMCane said:

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Pinochet said:

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fixer said:

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The longer they wait for any reason the longer Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran have to prepare.

They should have gone in day one and started wrecking face.

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We know they've been preparing for a year or two. What does an extra week get them? Especially if that week includes 8000 air strikes?

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some apparently only believe that preparations help Hamas.

and not the 160,000 Israeli men and women who have flown back into the country and rejoined their military units.

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Look how long it took for Israel to mobilize when they got sneak attacked during the Yom Kippur war, it takes time.

taking this with a very large grain of salt for now. Same hospital they warned about? Seems like there would be footage of something like this.. Hamas would use this for propaganda instantly

UPDATE: At least 500 causalities in Israeli air strike on hospital in Gaza - Health Ministry https://t.co/LYpqGZatWA

— Mrbam (@MrbamNews) October 17, 2023

Hamas health authorities in the Gaza Strip reporting hundreds of casualties in an Israeli airstrike near the Baptist Hospital in Gaza City. No immediate comment from the IDF. pic.twitter.com/dYBb0hJhQ9

— Emanuel (Mannie) Fabian (@manniefabian) October 17, 2023

Red area is the hospital. Blue area is the fire. So it wasn't the hospital that was hit/targeted. pic.twitter.com/a6ZvCK24Mm

— Mrbam (@MrbamNews) October 17, 2023

The IDF is checking whether it is an explosion of a rocket depot, a missile launched that landed there, or another reason - @ItayBlumental https://t.co/nCJXs4QwZW

— Amichai Stein (@AmichaiStein1) October 17, 2023

King Abdullah of Jordan rejects refugees:

"I can quite strongly speak on behalf of not only Jordan as a nation but our friends in Egypt — That is a red line. I think that is the plan by certain usual suspects... [There will be] NO REFUGEES in Jordan and NO REFUGEES in Egypt."… pic.twitter.com/lOH6eTh5MS

— Robby Starbuck (@robbystarbuck) October 17, 2023

So Egypt and Jordan are both saying no to any Palestinian refugees.

'Sources are saying that Hezbollah is making preparations for a full-scale war with Israel' @hamdahsalhut reports from the Israel-Lebanon border as Hezbollah attacks from southern Lebanon continue towards northern Israel pic.twitter.com/IUyNyDWa5C

— i24NEWS English (@i24NEWS_EN) October 17, 2023

Not enough blue stars!

P.U.T.U said:

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Someone correct me if I am wrong but I think Russia has not sold any S400 missile systems to anyone, they have them in countries like Syria but they are supposed to be operated by Russian soldiers. Iran tried to copy the S400 with the Bavar-373 but from what I saw it is closer to the S300. The S300 export ban ended in 2015 so countries like China and Iran have been trying to reverse engineer/improve it since then. Iran has provided the Bavar to Syria so who knows who else in the region may have some.

At the end of the day they are decent anti-aircraft weapons but as we have seen in Ukraine not great at shooting down missiles like the Stormshadows. Unless the war continues out of Gaza I don't think SAMs are going to be much of a threat for Israeli aircraft

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seeing as how Iran is in the same trench with the Russkies right now, my guess is that Iran is getting those S-400s since they asked for them 10 months ago:

"Iran has requested a new air-defense system, S-400s, from Russia, which could prove problematic for Israel.

Russia has yet to publicly confirm if it will supply the S-400s in question. If supplied, Iran will need only two years for the system to become operational.

The S-400 is a mobile, surface-to-air missile system created by Russia. It engages with aircrafts, unmanned aerial vehicles, and cruise missiles. It also has a terminal ballistic missile defense capability, according to the Center for Strategic and International studies."

Iran probably already has the S-400

P.U.T.U said:

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I am not on social media platforms but coworker said there are reports of Hamas having a failed rocket attack which caused more rockets to explode. I wouldn't put it past Hamas to have rockets that close to a hospital.

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Yeah both sides are blaming the other as to be expected. Doubt we'll ever know for sure

Supposedly this is the explosion. Why do you think they'd be filming there? Wonder if they were firing rockets out prior to when this clip starts. Cant think of any other reason

تغطية اخبارية| لحظة قصف الاحتلال لمستشفى المعمداني في غزة، ما أدى لاستشهاد المئات. pic.twitter.com/4IRmWIAvpd

— شبكة قدس الإخبارية (@qudsn) October 17, 2023

DeangeloVickers said:

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Real leadership...

King Abdullah II of Jordan declares that Palestinian refugees is his "red line"

"There will be NO refugees in Jordan and there will be NO refugees in Egypt." pic.twitter.com/m02bzjlSSP

— End Wokeness (@EndWokeness) October 17, 2023

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There are already 2 million or so Palestinian refugees in Jordan (1.5 million of which are now citizens of Jordan), which is about the population of the entire Gaza Strip.

https://www.unrwa.org/where-we-work/jordan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Jordan

Jordan also has about 1.7 million Syrian refugees. Jordan hosts more refugees than any other country in the world, while only having a total population just over 11 million.

You can see why the King would prefer not to have additional refugees, not even taking into account there would be no way for them to get there from Gaza apart from a circuitous route through Egypt - which won't open its border even if Jordan asked it to.

Faustus said:

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DeangeloVickers said:

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Real leadership...

King Abdullah II of Jordan declares that Palestinian refugees is his "red line"

"There will be NO refugees in Jordan and there will be NO refugees in Egypt." pic.twitter.com/m02bzjlSSP

— End Wokeness (@EndWokeness) October 17, 2023

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There are already 2 million or so Palestinian refugees in Jordan (1.5 million of which are now citizens of Jordan), which is about the population of the entire Gaza Strip.

https://www.unrwa.org/where-we-work/jordan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Jordan

Jordan also has about 1.7 million Syrian refugees. Jordan hosts more refugees than any other country in the world, while only having a total population just over 11 million.

You can see why the King would prefer not to have additional refugees, not even taking into account there would be no way for them to get there from Gaza apart from a circuitous route through Egypt - which won't open its border even if Jordan asked it to.

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Except the reason is they are savages and cause trouble in Jordan, nice try though.

Very interesting look at how Hamas' strategy is based on "lawfare." Worth reading, particularly the second half.

"John Kirby, the U.S. National Security Council spokesman, was correct today when he said that Hamas' urging of Palestinians in Gaza to remain at home means Hamas is using these civilians as human shields. The use of human shields is a war crime. Hamas is engaging in this war crime in order to facilitate falsely accusing the Israel Defense Forces of engaging in war crimes, such as the deliberate killing of civilians."

LAWFARE

JW said:

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we will be doing this again in 5-10 years.

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No matter what

PJYoung said:

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JW said:

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we will be doing this again in 5-10 years.

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No matter what

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If so it'll be intentional and those will benefit will be those in charge and those who makes money off of rebuilding and replacing everything that gets used and destroyed in the next few weeks.

There's no reason this should happen again, unless it's new design.

74OA said:

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Very interesting look at how Hamas' strategy is based on "lawfare." Worth reading, particularly the second half.

"John Kirby, the U.S. National Security Council spokesman, was correct today when he said that Hamas' urging of Palestinians in Gaza to remain at home means Hamas is using these civilians as human shields. The use of human shields is a war crime. Hamas is engaging in this war crime in order to facilitate falsely accusing the Israel Defense Forces of engaging in war crimes, such as the deliberate killing of civilians."

LAWFARE

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when your religion and way of life glorified becoming a martyr for "the cause", is it really a war crime.

And yes. Yes it is a war crime.

https://reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/WpTCqXPLZA

Supposed video of failed rocket launch by hamas hit hospital