Israel/Hamas going at it

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JobSecurity
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2:17p, 10/16/23
AG


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DTP02
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In reply to BTHOB • 2:20p, 10/16/23
AG
BTHOB said:
Anybody else starting to think Israel waited too long to start ground operations clearing Hamas out of Gaza?

Seems like public opinion and International pressures are building exponentially against the ground war. Support for eradicating Hamas was greatest shortly after the initial events were disclosed.

I am starting to doubt that Israel will do what they need to do, with the aggressiveness required, anytime soon.


I think you're way underestimating the scope and duration of the ground offensive. We were going to reach the point where the PR pendulum swung back regardless. Going into Gaza in force with the goal of permanently ending Hamas' ability to stay in power or inflict major damage will be a lengthy, messy, complicated process.

Taking another week isn't a big deal, and even moreso if it's strategically or tactically helpful.
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Kceovaisnt-
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In reply to JobSecurity • 2:23p, 10/16/23
AG
Why is he covering his face? His name is listed in the description. Covid?
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CDUB98
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In reply to aggiehawg • 2:29p, 10/16/23
AG
aggiehawg said:
Reporting on FNC right now that American troops are being told to get ready to deploy, if needed to protect Israel.


DAMMITT
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Ag In Ok
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In reply to NukeAg10 • 2:29p, 10/16/23
AG
I don't recall seeing an ARG in the med. the Bataan ARG and the Mesa Verde are somewhat in the area, but would take days to get there i would assume.
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JobSecurity
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2:30p, 10/16/23
AG
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NukeAg10
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In reply to Kceovaisnt- • 2:32p, 10/16/23
AG
Bc he's a coward and a liar.
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Phatbob
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2:32p, 10/16/23
AG
I think we look for where to engage our troops next based on the color we have our stuff painted. We save a lot on paint that way.
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CDUB98
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In reply to Kceovaisnt- • 2:33p, 10/16/23
AG
Kceovaisnt- said:
Why is he covering his face? His name is listed in the description. Covid?


Might as well be Jack Smith with that name...also, no guarantee it is his real name.
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NukeAg10
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In reply to Ag In Ok • 2:34p, 10/16/23
AG
ARG?

Eta: I'm just a sailor who has done deployments in the 5th, 6th, and 7th fleets. But I work below to make the ships move through the water, but have also listened to a lot of COs and rumors.
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Who?mikejones!
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2:38p, 10/16/23
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nortex97
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2:39p, 10/16/23
AG
So that folks understand, Hamas has around 500 miles of tunnels beneath (up to 30-40 meters) that tiny patch of land, for which they spent about a billion dollars.



This is a challenge that requires substantial planning for the Israeli's, probably the largest reason for their delay.



And of course, they have admitted to deliberately/intentionally building them under civilian structures.



This is a good thread on the topic, reminds me of "Peaky Blinders:"

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Ag In Ok
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In reply to NukeAg10 • 2:46p, 10/16/23
AG
amphibious ready group. A few f35s along with aerial troop transport. Some amphibious support ships carrying a single marine expeditionary unit that is a battalion strong. Minus the tanks, i guess they don't have their abrams anymore.
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Old May Banker
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In reply to nortex97 • 2:47p, 10/16/23
AG
Pump sea water into them and kill anything that it flushes out.
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Ag In Ok
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In reply to nortex97 • 2:48p, 10/16/23
AG
I have a question for you hardest working Ags in O&G - how accurate is ground penetrating radar and how effective is airborne GPR?
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WBBQ74
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In reply to nortex97 • 2:49p, 10/16/23
AG
The IDF should do a few landings on the beach, set up some pumping stations with extension piping, and fill those tunnels with seawater. The Med has enough of it and won't miss a few million gallons. Flush the Hamas rats out into the open and get them all.

FAFO.
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LMCane
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In reply to CDUB98 • 2:50p, 10/16/23
CDUB98 said:
aggiehawg said:
Reporting on FNC right now that American troops are being told to get ready to deploy, if needed to protect Israel.


DAMMITT
this is a BS report

there are no eventualities where US troops would be deployed as infantry into Israel

unless there was an Iranian nuclear attack

at the most, they are discussing USAF and USA personnel to operate some of the radars and SAM batteries- which has been done in the past with PATRIOT

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BurnetAggie99
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2:50p, 10/16/23
There's newer technology called JIDO that can be put on drones. Use UAS to survey an area & it detects a large change in the magnetic field, that indicates there is something subsurface.
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LMCane
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In reply to WBBQ74 • 2:51p, 10/16/23
WBBQ74 said:
The IDF should do a few landings on the beach, set up some pumping stations with extension piping, and fill those tunnels with seawater. The Med has enough of it and won't miss a few million gallons. Flush the Hamas rats out into the open and get them all.

FAFO.
I have posted several videos of the Hamas tunnel networks

every one had a DIRT floor with concrete on the sides and top.

what happens when you pump seawater into a tunnel with a dirt floor?
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P.U.T.U
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In reply to Ag In Ok • 2:52p, 10/16/23
AG
I have often wondered the same thing myself, those seismic systems can identify stuff thousands of feet under the ground, why hasn't Israel and the US used them to detect tunnels on their borders?
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samurai_science
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2:52p, 10/16/23
They just need keep using bunker busters on the tunnels like they have been for the last week.
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Teslag
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In reply to LMCane • 2:52p, 10/16/23
AG
It fills with water if you pump faster than the infiltration rate of the floor.
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Rustys-Beef-o-Reeno
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In reply to WBBQ74 • 2:52p, 10/16/23
AG
That would take 284,379,429 gallons
At 3000gpm it would take 65 days assuming no seepage
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samurai_science
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In reply to P.U.T.U • 2:53p, 10/16/23
P.U.T.U said:
I have often wondered the same thing myself, those seismic systems can identify stuff thousands of feet under the ground, why hasn't Israel and the US used them to detect tunnels on their borders?
They have been using lots of these technologies, that's why HAMA switched tactics instead of trying to tunnel into Israel like in the past.
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samurai_science
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In reply to Rustys-Beef-o-Reeno • 2:53p, 10/16/23
Rustys-Beef-o-Reeno said:
That would take 284,379,429 gallons
Egypt has done it to HAMAs tunnels in the past
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WBBQ74
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In reply to LMCane • 2:54p, 10/16/23
AG
Just keep pumping and the dirt floor gums up. Water is the IDF's friend and would be major way to lower close combat casualties.
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CDUB98
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In reply to WBBQ74 • 2:54p, 10/16/23
AG
WBBQ74 said:
The IDF should do a few landings on the beach, set up some pumping stations with extension piping, and fill those tunnels with seawater. The Med has enough of it and won't miss a few million gallons. Flush the Hamas rats out into the open and get them all.

FAFO.


IIRC from another thread, when Egypt did this, they contaminated the ground water with salt water.

That's not such a good thing for the Israelis living right next door.
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LMCane
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2:55p, 10/16/23
Parents were murdered protecting their twin babies:



Hadar and Itay Berdichevsky, both 30, were killed in their home in Kibbutz Kfar Aza as they tried to protect the lives of their 10-month-old twins.

The twins, who had been hidden by their parents in their home's reinforced room, survived.

Hadar's brother Inbar Rosenfeld told Channel 13 news that the last message his family received was from Hadar making a joke about being stuck in the bomb shelter with the twins after air raid sirens sounded.

They never heard from either of them again.
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Old May Banker
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In reply to LMCane • 2:56p, 10/16/23
AG
LMCane said:
WBBQ74 said:
The IDF should do a few landings on the beach, set up some pumping stations with extension piping, and fill those tunnels with seawater. The Med has enough of it and won't miss a few million gallons. Flush the Hamas rats out into the open and get them all.

FAFO.
I have posted several videos of the Hamas tunnel networks

every one had a DIRT floor with concrete on the sides and top.

what happens when you pump seawater into a tunnel with a dirt floor?

They drown in muddy water.
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WBBQ74
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In reply to CDUB98 • 2:57p, 10/16/23
AG
Fair tradeoff. Part of making the Gaza strip a desert prairie.
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captkirk
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3:02p, 10/16/23
AG
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fullback44
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In reply to Old May Banker • 3:02p, 10/16/23
AG
Old May Banker said:
Pump sea water into them and kill anything that it flushes out.


This has to be what Isreal is planning on doing .. many of those tunnels are not re enforced and would eventually cave in if you just let the water sit too long

Maybe one step further and turn all the sewer pumps on and dump the sewage water into the tunnels
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2023NCAggies
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In reply to LMCane • 3:03p, 10/16/23
LMCane said:
2023NCAggies said:
Not a Bot said:
He is telling the truth. Lebanon is a hell of a complicated place. The majority of the people do not support Hezbollah and are Sunni or Christian. Hezbollah was allowed to get that powerful because Iran convinced the local Shia population that the Sunnis and Christians were keeping them poor on purpose and manipulated them into joining their cause. Their militia element was supposed to disband and never did, and the Lebanese government in general is not strong enough to reign them in.

Lebanon's shared power structure is supposed to provide equal power among Christians, Sunnis, and Shias but Hezbollah has gained outsized power. Hezbollah is a political party within Lebanon as well as the militia.

The Christian President (the President always has to be a Christian in Lebanon) has traded away a lot of his power to Hezbollah in exchange for money and security of the Christian population. Hezbollah runs Lebanon like the cartels.
So if they are a ally to us without Hezbollah, maybe we should take of them for them and train a loyal army and supply them with quipment over time.

You have to have more than Israel over there
The Israelis tried this back in 1982 when going to war against the PLO in Lebanon.

because at the time there was a strong Christian Phalangist group that was willing to sign a peace treaty with Israel.

of course, the Iranians and Syrians found out about it and had Gamayel assassinated by a car bomb before he could sign the peace treaty.

and now we have Hizbullah controlling Lebanon instead of the PLO
That sucks, wish we could have gotten it done back then. We and Israel would be in a better spots
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LMCane
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In reply to P.U.T.U • 3:05p, 10/16/23
P.U.T.U said:
I have often wondered the same thing myself, those seismic systems can identify stuff thousands of feet under the ground, why hasn't Israel and the US used them to detect tunnels on their borders?
the IDF has used such technology to find tunnels-

hence the Hamas terrorists blasted the Border Wall in 15 places rather than using their attack tunnels.

dozens of Hamas tunnels have destroyed in the last decade.

Here is an ENTIRE FAMILY wiped out



Aviv (54), Livnat (49), Rotem (19), Yonatan (17), and Yiftach (15) Kutz were murdered by Hamas terrorists in their home in Kfar Aza on October, 7, 2023. An entire family was wiped out.

After initially counted among the missing, neighbors from the kibbutz found them together in a bed, with father Aviv providing a protective embrace.

Livnat, who was supposed to celebrate her 50th birthday this month, was born during the Yom Kippur War. She was a graphic designer who launched an educational initiative called Workshop that integrated ancient handcrafts into school curriculums in the Shaar Hanegev region in Israel's south.
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RK
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In reply to Ag In Ok • 3:07p, 10/16/23
AG
Ag In Ok said:
I have a question for you hardest working Ags in O&G - how accurate is ground penetrating radar and how effective is airborne GPR?
the depths of those tunnels are beyond effective detection/discrimination depths of GPR. by design.
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