Israel/Hamas going at it

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Deus Vult
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In reply to Wrec86 Ag • 10:48p, 10/9/23
Wrec86 Ag said:
Nitro Power said:
They hide in schools mosque and hospitals. The only way to eradicate them is strike them where they are hiding. Those people hate Israel, so they aren't exactly innocent.



I'm sorry, I just can't get behind the logic that ends with you wanting to bomb mosques and schools, intentionally killing innocent people. Even if the young kids "hate Israel"


None of them are innocent, every single one of them is a terrorist or will become one. Watch the video of the 5 year old Israeli boy being give to a bunch of Palestinian kids about his age. Everyone 5 years old and above should be treated as a terrorist combatant and give a 556 kiss to the forehead.
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Wrec86 Ag
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In reply to ShaggySLC • 10:48p, 10/9/23
Sh****SLC said:
Wrec86 Ag said:
I don't think leveling the Gaza Strip to rubble and killing all men, women and children is the right answer.

Is it the emotional response? Sure, but I will never support that kind of indiscriminate killing of innocent lives.

Before anyone asks - I have no idea how to solve the problem - it's far too complicated for me to figure out. But if Israel just decides to wipe out an entire region of all civilians, that won't solve any problems in the long term. Do you think the rest of the Arab world is just going to sit by?

Christians/Jews vs Muslims/Communism would make for a really nasty World War.
To be fair, they were saying death to all Jews, started attempting it and videoed it for the world to see. Then celebrated the rapes and girls being burned in every big city on earth. Can't lie, I'd react poorly as well. Nazi's, who conservatives get accused of being, would be proud. But conservatives seem to be the only ones angry other than Jews. That's really interesting to me.


I don't think I could get confused for a conservative, especially on this board, and I'm firmly on Israel's side here - I want to make that crystal clear.

And I completely understand the anger and emotional response to the atrocities that Hamas committed. I would support a response well beyond "equal payback" and would probably support an extended effort to eradicate Hamas in full.

But I don't support turning the entire Gaza Strip (men, women and children) into glass.
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FriscoKid
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In reply to Wrec86 Ag • 10:49p, 10/9/23
AG
Wrec86 Ag said:
I don't think leveling the Gaza Strip to rubble and killing all men, women and children is the right answer.

Is it the emotional response? Sure, but I will never support that kind of indiscriminate killing of innocent lives.

Before anyone asks - I have no idea how to solve the problem - it's far too complicated for me to figure out. But if Israel just decides to wipe out an entire region of all civilians, that won't solve any problems in the long term. Do you think the rest of the Arab world is just going to sit by?

Christians/Jews vs Muslims/Communism would make for a really nasty World War.

Israel will take back the land and institute a police state. It's going to a full scale ground war and disarming of Gaza IMO.

The "world" can scream, but I think the IDF isn't playing any games this time.
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YouBet
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In reply to Wrec86 Ag • 10:49p, 10/9/23
AG
Wrec86 Ag said:
I don't think leveling the Gaza Strip to rubble and killing all men, women and children is the right answer.

Is it the emotional response? Sure, but I will never support that kind of indiscriminate killing of innocent lives.

Before anyone asks - I have no idea how to solve the problem - it's far too complicated for me to figure out. But if Israel just decides to wipe out an entire region of all civilians, that won't solve any problems in the long term. Do you think the rest of the Arab world is just going to sit by?

Christians/Jews vs Muslims/Communism would make for a really nasty World War.
Look at a map. Strategically, it would benefit Israel to retake Gaza and put it under their control. It would be one less blatant insurgent area inside their borders and would close a gap against the Egyptian border who, by the way, usually want nothing to do with the Palestinians.

One less thing to worry about. As far as the people that might be there, yeah that sucks, but:

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dreyOO
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In reply to FriscoKid • 10:49p, 10/9/23
FriscoKid said:


I guess this belongs on this thread as an official US response, but this is after the Biden administration gave billions to Iran.

And yet, I don't see all the dip****s on social media trying to show the same Ukrainian level support (or even poison poke level). As well organized as the left is to control narratives, is that surprising?

I think not. It shows the hand the left is really playing. Feign support, but milk this crisis for everything it's worth. Grift and distract and perhaps some other commie allies can make a play.

I swear this all feels like the opening scene of Naked Gun where all the worlds evil doers are conspiring together. And Obama would be right there with them today.
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The Last Cobra Commander
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In reply to Wrec86 Ag • 10:50p, 10/9/23
AG
Wrec86 Ag said:
I just can't get behind the logic that ends with you wanting to bomb mosques and schools, intentionally killing innocent people. Even if the young kids "hate Israel"

You're focusing on the wrong things. We're not bombing mosques and schools. We're bombing subhumans… who happen to be in mosques and schools. We're not intentionally killing innocents. We're intentionally killing subhumans, who've used "innocents" as shields. When those shields support the agenda of their users, it's a win-win.
"The leftist is driven by something other than facts and can't be cured."
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ABATTBQ11
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In reply to Wrec86 Ag • 10:50p, 10/9/23
AG
Wrec86 Ag said:
Nitro Power said:
They hide in schools mosque and hospitals. The only way to eradicate them is strike them where they are hiding. Those people hate Israel, so they aren't exactly innocent.


I'm sorry, I just can't get behind the logic that ends with you wanting to bomb mosques and schools, intentionally killing innocent people. Even if the young kids "hate Israel"


They literally voted for this. hamas has been in power for a long time with overwhelming support. Before that it was the PLO. In 20 years it would still be hamas or another group of terrorists. They support this directly, and it's what they wanted. Now it's time to reap the whirlwind.
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Nitro Power
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In reply to Wrec86 Ag • 10:51p, 10/9/23
AG
Can't have it both ways

To eradicate them you have to do whatever it takes...in this case it's probably leveling Gaza

It's a harsh reality, and yes very very sad.
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Waffledynamics
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In reply to ABATTBQ11 • 10:52p, 10/9/23
AG
ABATTBQ11 said:
Wrec86 Ag said:
Nitro Power said:
They hide in schools mosque and hospitals. The only way to eradicate them is strike them where they are hiding. Those people hate Israel, so they aren't exactly innocent.


I'm sorry, I just can't get behind the logic that ends with you wanting to bomb mosques and schools, intentionally killing innocent people. Even if the young kids "hate Israel"


They literally voted for this. hamas has been in power for a long time with overwhelming support. Before that it was the PLO. In 20 years it would still be hamas or another group of terrorists. They support this directly, and it's what they wanted. Now it's time to reap the whirlwind.
This assumes the elections are legitimate (I doubt it) and that there is enough popular support against Hamas (I also kind of doubt it).
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FriscoKid
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In reply to dreyOO • 10:52p, 10/9/23
AG
The Obama WH and one of the top 3 (Jarrett) actively supports the second Arab spring. Biden doesn't have a clue what's going on right now.
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Nitro Power
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In reply to FriscoKid • 10:53p, 10/9/23
AG
Bibi has said as much. They are going to eliminate Hamas, that is if you take him at his word.
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Rapier108
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In reply to txags92 • 10:55p, 10/9/23
Quote:
Nuke sniffer up over the Persian Gulf.
Looks like its heading away. Might have just been on a stop over.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
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FriscoKid
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In reply to Nitro Power • 10:56p, 10/9/23
AG
Nitro Power said:
Bibi has said as much. They are going to eliminate Hamas, that is if you take him at his word.

I think that's where we are headed and it's about time. The world will be screaming foul before the weekend, but I think Israel will go a lot further this time to retake land.
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ShaggySLC
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In reply to Wrec86 Ag • 10:56p, 10/9/23
Wrec86 Ag said:
ShaggySLC said:
Wrec86 Ag said:
I don't think leveling the Gaza Strip to rubble and killing all men, women and children is the right answer.

Is it the emotional response? Sure, but I will never support that kind of indiscriminate killing of innocent lives.

Before anyone asks - I have no idea how to solve the problem - it's far too complicated for me to figure out. But if Israel just decides to wipe out an entire region of all civilians, that won't solve any problems in the long term. Do you think the rest of the Arab world is just going to sit by?

Christians/Jews vs Muslims/Communism would make for a really nasty World War.
To be fair, they were saying death to all Jews, started attempting it and videoed it for the world to see. Then celebrated the rapes and girls being burned in every big city on earth. Can't lie, I'd react poorly as well. Nazi's, who conservatives get accused of being, would be proud. But conservatives seem to be the only ones angry other than Jews. That's really interesting to me.


I don't think I could get confused for a conservative, especially on this board, and I'm firmly on Israel's side here - I want to make that crystal clear.

And I completely understand the anger and emotional response to the atrocities that Hamas committed. I would support a response well beyond "equal payback" and would probably support an extended effort to eradicate Hamas in full.

But I don't support turning the entire Gaza Strip (men, women and children) into glass.
Don't rape and burn girls, video it, celebrate it with a street parade, then encourage leftist worldwide to celebrate also and guess what? Gaza would still be there. You seem like the lady watched her bf get murdered and said I don't want more pain, cops, I won't tell you what he looks like. Jews won't rape women I love, not sure I feel the same right now about the cowards in Gaza.
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YouBet
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In reply to dreyOO • 10:58p, 10/9/23
AG
dreyOO said:
FriscoKid said:


I guess this belongs on this thread as an official US response, but this is after the Biden administration gave billions to Iran.

And yet, I don't see all the dip****s on social media trying to show the same Ukrainian level support (or even poison poke level). As well organized as the left is to control narratives, is that surprising?

I think not. It shows the hand the left is really playing. Feign support, but milk this crisis for everything it's worth. Grift and distract and perhaps some other commie allies can make a play.

I swear this all feels like the opening scene of Naked Gun where all the worlds evil doers are conspiring together. And Obama would be right there with them today.
So many Democrats right now....

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Infection_Ag11
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In reply to Nitro Power • 10:58p, 10/9/23
AG
Nitro Power said:
They hide in schools mosque and hospitals. The only way to eradicate them is strike them where they are hiding. Those people hate Israel, so they aren't exactly innocent.


Maybe, but at some point you risk skirting dangerously close to the line that separates them from you. Fundamentally the difference between Israel and these savages is that one values human life and the other doesn't.

I'm not saying there's never a time for accepting large numbers of civilian casualties for the greater good, but I'd be very careful about when one declares that time has come. In this case Israel has demonstrated before that a relatively small and focused use of force has rendered Hamas incapable of retaliating for months/years at a time. Given what a Mickey Mouse operation they are, and frankly how good the Israelis and their military/intelligence agencies are at killing people that need to be killed, I don't believe a widespread massacre of Palestinians would be necessary to bring about the functional end of Hamas. Especially given that a large percentage of Palestinians hate them and only live under them out of fear.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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Nitro Power
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In reply to Infection_Ag11 • 11:00p, 10/9/23
AG
I'm not sure how you can possibly compare what Israel is going to what Hamas did, regardless of the casualties.

Further, they warned people of Gaza to leave within 72 hrs. They gave fair warning, so no they are not close to the line between doing what is necessary and becoming the terrorist.
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Terence Kitchens
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In reply to Wrec86 Ag • 11:00p, 10/9/23
I understand where you're coming from, but those people represent them and they support it, if not, it wouldn't be happening.
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BBRex
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In reply to Wrec86 Ag • 11:00p, 10/9/23
AG
Wrec86 Ag said:
Nitro Power said:
They hide in schools mosque and hospitals. The only way to eradicate them is strike them where they are hiding. Those people hate Israel, so they aren't exactly innocent.


I'm sorry, I just can't get behind the logic that ends with you wanting to bomb mosques and schools, intentionally killing innocent people. Even if the young kids "hate Israel"


Since WWII nations that want to be with the big boys have, by and large, attempted to look "civilized" in the wars they waged. It isn't working. Asymmetrical warfare combined with concern for civilian casualties puts those "civilized" nations at a disadvantage. The U.S. in Vietnam and Afghanistan; the Soviet Union in Afghanistan; the French in Vietnam and Algeria; and so on.

The Israelis have been playing a similar game with Hamas. The continued result is that Hamas' aggression is only temporarily checked. I think Israel returns to total war because, frankly, it works. And they won't worry about how it looks, because to them the war is existential.
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Infection_Ag11
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In reply to Nitro Power • 11:03p, 10/9/23
AG
Nitro Power said:
I'm not sure how you can possibly compare what Israel is going to what Hamas did, regardless of the casualties.

Further, they warned people of Gaza to leave within 72 hrs. They gave fair warning, so no they are not close to the line between doing what is necessary and becoming the terrorist.


I'm not comparing tactics at all, but at the end of the day there is an emotional/moral cost once you commit to blowing up hospitals and schools causalities be damned. That takes a toll on those doing it and the society behind them. You just better be sure that's what is necessary and that you're prepared to accept that cost.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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Bubblez
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In reply to Nitro Power • 11:03p, 10/9/23
Nitro Power said:
I'm not sure how you can possibly compare what Israel is going to what Hamas did, regardless of the casualties.


Crushing innocent civilians to death in a bombed apartment building or executing innocent young adults at a concert. It's all brutal.
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Yukon Cornelius
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In reply to Infection_Ag11 • 11:04p, 10/9/23
AG
This is their Pearl Harbor. We dropped two atomic bombs on population centers.

I don't think they are thinking months/years. They are thinking never again.
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Nitro Power
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In reply to Infection_Ag11 • 11:05p, 10/9/23
AG
Infection_Ag11 said:
Nitro Power said:
I'm not sure how you can possibly compare what Israel is going to what Hamas did, regardless of the casualties.

Further, they warned people of Gaza to leave within 72 hrs. They gave fair warning, so no they are not close to the line between doing what is necessary and becoming the terrorist.


I'm not comparing tactics at all, but at the end of the day there is an emotional/moral cost once you commit to blowing up hospitals and schools causalities be damned. That takes a toll on those doing it and the society behind them. You just better be sure that's what is necessary and that you're prepared to accept that cost.


Fair

But, I think it's clear this is what needs to be done. Israel has been dealing with the barbarians for far too long.
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Nitro Power
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In reply to Bubblez • 11:05p, 10/9/23
AG
One provoked and one not

And again, they were given warning to leave
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samurai_science
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In reply to Bubblez • 11:05p, 10/9/23
Bubblez said:
Nitro Power said:
I'm not sure how you can possibly compare what Israel is going to what Hamas did, regardless of the casualties.


Crushing innocent civilians to death in a bombed apartment building or executing innocent young adults at a concert. It's all brutal.
War is hell, time to end it.
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GAC06
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In reply to Nitro Power • 11:07p, 10/9/23
AG
Nitro Power said:
One provoked and one not

And again, they were given warning to leave


And again, leave to where?
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CoachtobeNamed$$$
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In reply to will25u • 11:07p, 10/9/23
will25u said:
Way too many buildings still standing and pieces of crap walking around. More work to be done.
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Rockdoc
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In reply to Bubblez • 11:08p, 10/9/23
AG
Bubblez said:
Nitro Power said:
I'm not sure how you can possibly compare what Israel is going to what Hamas did, regardless of the casualties.


Crushing innocent civilians to death in a bombed apartment building or executing innocent young adults at a concert. It's all brutal.

They should have thought of that before they started the aggression.
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samurai_science
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In reply to GAC06 • 11:08p, 10/9/23
GAC06 said:
Nitro Power said:
One provoked and one not

And again, they were given warning to leave


And again, leave to where?
Who cares? Choose better leaders
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Nitro Power
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In reply to GAC06 • 11:08p, 10/9/23
AG
Their problem
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YouBet
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In reply to Infection_Ag11 • 11:08p, 10/9/23
AG
Infection_Ag11 said:
Nitro Power said:
I'm not sure how you can possibly compare what Israel is going to what Hamas did, regardless of the casualties.

Further, they warned people of Gaza to leave within 72 hrs. They gave fair warning, so no they are not close to the line between doing what is necessary and becoming the terrorist.


I'm not comparing tactics at all, but at the end of the day there is an emotional/moral cost once you commit to blowing up hospitals and schools causalities be damned. That takes a toll on those doing it and the society behind them. You just better be sure that's what is necessary and that you're prepared to accept that cost.
It certainly does, but Israel's border vulnerabilities got exposed with this. When literally everyone around you would genocide you if they knew they could get away with it, then Israel really has no choice but to respond with generational retribution, as Bibi put it.

They have no other choice.
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Infection_Ag11
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In reply to BBRex • 11:10p, 10/9/23
AG
Quote:
Since WWII nations that want to be with the big boys have, by and large, attempted to look "civilized" in the wars they waged. It isn't working. Asymmetrical warfare combined with concern for civilian casualties puts those "civilized" nations at a disadvantage. The U.S. in Vietnam and Afghanistan; the Soviet Union in Afghanistan; the French in Vietnam and Algeria; and so on.


One, you need to define what you mean by "hasn't worked". 1945 - present is the most peaceful period in all of human history without any competition for that title, and in particular since the end of the Cold War.

Two, you need to go look at the casualty rates for the wars you listed. The "civilized" nations didn't lose in any sense other than getting tired of the time and resources required to keep fighting. Americans SLAUGHTERED the North Vietnamese in almost comical ratios. The kill to loss ratio was around 17:1.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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GAC06
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In reply to Nitro Power • 11:11p, 10/9/23
AG
Nitro Power said:
Their problem


I agree but let's call it like it is. Telling them to leave is bs
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BBRex
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In reply to Infection_Ag11 • 11:13p, 10/9/23
AG
Infection_Ag11 said:
Nitro Power said:
I'm not sure how you can possibly compare what Israel is going to what Hamas did, regardless of the casualties.

Further, they warned people of Gaza to leave within 72 hrs. They gave fair warning, so no they are not close to the line between doing what is necessary and becoming the terrorist.


I'm not comparing tactics at all, but at the end of the day there is an emotional/moral cost once you commit to blowing up hospitals and schools causalities be damned. That takes a toll on those doing it and the society behind them. You just better be sure that's what is necessary and that you're prepared to accept that cost.


To help end World War II, the Allies firebombed Dresden and Tokyo. The British bombed German targets at night to minimize their own casualties. When the stakes are high, you do what you must. At the same time, I don't expect to see Israel bomb schools and hospitals unless Hamas puts targets of military value there. Hamas just showed they don't have those sorts of moral concerns.
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HowdyTAMU
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11:13p, 10/9/23
AG
Israel is so civilized Hamas is complaining that in some cases Israel isn't giving a warning before bombing a building. Seriously.
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