Israel/Hamas going at it

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aggiehawg
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In reply to deddog • 5:35p, 10/9/23
AG
Quote:
The problem is that many are launched in the middle of densely packed residential neighborhoods, so not always easy to hit back.
I don't think the Israelis will give a rat's patootie about that now.

Here is another issue I have. Between Gaza, Hexbollah attacking from Lebanon and the Syrian border, in an attempt to overwhelm the Iron Dome and other similar systems, at some point the Israelis will be running low with armaments for those systems. At that point what happens? Does Israeli command take a big gulp and say, "F*** it all," and launch a nuke?
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Not a Bot
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In reply to aggiehawg • 5:36p, 10/9/23
AG
aggiehawg said:
Question about military intel and Hezbollah missile launch sites?

I assume just like we passed on intel in real time to the Ukrainians can we do the same to the Israelis with Hezbollah missile sites located upon launch to direct the IDF where to hit them?


They are difficult to detect because they use homemade type launchers that they put on the backs of trucks and cars, they pull them out of garages and sheds just before firing them and they are a one-time use kind of thing. So once the counter battery hits, the rockets are gone and so are the people.
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aggiehawg
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In reply to akaggie05 • 5:36p, 10/9/23
AG
akaggie05 said:
aggiehawg said:
Question about military intel and Hezbollah missile launch sites?

I assume just like we passed on intel in real time to the Ukrainians can we do the same to the Israelis with Hezbollah missile sites located upon launch to direct the IDF where to hit them?


Difference between Ukraine and Israel is that Israel doesn't need us. They have world-class radars and other surveillance tech that likely allows them to pinpoint to within a few meters where the artillery and missiles are coming from, in real time. They're just showing restraint, so far.
Good to know. Thank you for the response.
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aggiehawg
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In reply to Not a Bot • 5:38p, 10/9/23
AG
Quote:
they are a one-time use kind of thing.
One and done? Did not know that. Thank you.
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Not a Bot
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In reply to aggiehawg • 5:39p, 10/9/23
AG
easy to mass produce and cheap which is why they are so problematic. asymmetrical warfare doctrine. they'll trade your $2,000,000 bomb for 100 of their $1000 rockets
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deddog
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In reply to aggiehawg • 5:45p, 10/9/23
AG
aggiehawg said:
Quote:
The problem is that many are launched in the middle of densely packed residential neighborhoods, so not always easy to hit back.
I don't think the Israelis will give a rat's patootie about that now.

Here is another issue I have. Between Gaza, Hexbollah attacking from Lebanon and the Syrian border, in an attempt to overwhelm the Iron Dome and other similar systems, at some point the Israelis will be running low with armaments for those systems. At that point what happens? Does Israeli command take a big gulp and say, "F*** it all," and launch a nuke?
It's an interesting question on Iron Dome. They are strategically placed and only intercept rockets heading towards civilian areas (to control costs and "wastage"). No idea about stocks of interceptors for Iron Dome though. Anyone know?

I think a ground invasion is the best way to prevent rockets being fired, so as stocks go lower, there is going to be tremendous pressure on sending troops in.
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Ag87H2O
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In reply to Who?mikejones! • 5:49p, 10/9/23
AG
Agthatbuilds said:


This is one of the non militant Palestinians, fwiw.

Yeah, hope you like the dark


If CNN had any conscience or professional ethics they would show this clip at 17:30 and ask this lying sack of crap to answer for it. They are kidnapping, torturing, and murdering civilians.

Yet once again, they give these liars a platform to spew their prevarications. Makes me sick.

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TheBonifaceOption
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In reply to aggiehawg • 5:51p, 10/9/23
aggiehawg said:
Quote:
The problem is that many are launched in the middle of densely packed residential neighborhoods, so not always easy to hit back.
I don't think the Israelis will give a rat's patootie about that now.

Here is another issue I have. Between Gaza, Hexbollah attacking from Lebanon and the Syrian border, in an attempt to overwhelm the Iron Dome and other similar systems, at some point the Israelis will be running low with armaments for those systems. At that point what happens? Does Israeli command take a big gulp and say, "F*** it all," and launch a nuke?

While the most modest tactical nuke would level 10 city blocks and be fairly contained with radiation, the moment you peirce the nuclear veil there is no going back. And I mean that once Israel does it, even if justifiably, then every nation with a nuke can justify it. Then where are we?

Further, even if the veil stayed strong and other nations continued to show restraint, public opinion would condemn Israel and be self defeating in a post-nuke scenario.
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A_Gang_Ag_06
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5:51p, 10/9/23
AG
These are animals pure and simple. Me when watching the YouTube live feed of Gaza…

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HarryJ33tamu
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5:52p, 10/9/23
Not sure who was just on Fox but he predicted that if Israel started running low on iron dome rockets, they'd ask the U.S. to step in and get directly involved.

He said this is very likely if Hezbollah launches their 130,000 rockets they have pointed at Israel.

The guest said there is no way we tell Israel no if it comes to that.
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IndividualFreedom
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In reply to TAMUallen • 6:04p, 10/9/23
Quote:
Umm there's only 141 sq miles of Gaza
Well I guess they can kill one point five hostages before Rand McNally has a real challenge on their hands come printing day.
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ABATTBQ11
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In reply to HarryJ33tamu • 6:09p, 10/9/23
AG
Israel is probably going after those stockpiles hard, and they no longer care what collateral damage they do. Mosque, school, hospital, doesn't matter. They're leveling buildings without a second thought, and they're going to make Gaza look like southeast Ukraine.
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SHELTON@TAYLOR
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In reply to deddog • 6:16p, 10/9/23
deddog said:
Watching a live feed in GAZA, for the last 4 hours or so. There is a drone flying over constantly. Israel has always had enough intel to identify where the rockets are coming from.

The problem is that many are launched in the middle of densely packed residential neighborhoods, so not always easy to hit back.

On an unrelated note, the fact that intelligence had no idea that Hamas was planning this, has got be unnerving. It's like the US after 9/11, we had HAVE no idea how many sleeper sells there were ARE in the US.
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flashplayer
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In reply to aggiehawg • 6:34p, 10/9/23
AG
aggiehawg said:
Quote:
The problem is that many are launched in the middle of densely packed residential neighborhoods, so not always easy to hit back.
I don't think the Israelis will give a rat's patootie about that now.

Here is another issue I have. Between Gaza, Hexbollah attacking from Lebanon and the Syrian border, in an attempt to overwhelm the Iron Dome and other similar systems, at some point the Israelis will be running low with armaments for those systems. At that point what happens? Does Israeli command take a big gulp and say, "F*** it all," and launch a nuke?


I honestly don't understand why they don't go ahead and drop a nuke on Gaza just to deter further f***ery from the other actors and Iran. That would stop this crap in a heartbeat. Nukes aren't much of a deterrent if no one believes you're going to use them.
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TAMUallen
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In reply to flashplayer • 6:37p, 10/9/23
AG
flashplayer said:
aggiehawg said:
Quote:
The problem is that many are launched in the middle of densely packed residential neighborhoods, so not always easy to hit back.
I don't think the Israelis will give a rat's patootie about that now.

Here is another issue I have. Between Gaza, Hexbollah attacking from Lebanon and the Syrian border, in an attempt to overwhelm the Iron Dome and other similar systems, at some point the Israelis will be running low with armaments for those systems. At that point what happens? Does Israeli command take a big gulp and say, "F*** it all," and launch a nuke?


I honestly don't understand why they don't go ahead and drop a nuke on Gaza just to deter further f***ery from the other actors and Iran. That would stop this crap in a heartbeat. Nukes aren't much of a deterrent if no one believes you're going to use them.


Because even though justified, they'd become the villain of the world. It'd serve to generate more hatred from Muslims worldwide and have nation states likely shifting to endorse or become fundamentalists eager to crusade against Israel
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flashplayer
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In reply to TAMUallen • 6:39p, 10/9/23
AG
TAMUallen said:
flashplayer said:
aggiehawg said:
Quote:
The problem is that many are launched in the middle of densely packed residential neighborhoods, so not always easy to hit back.
I don't think the Israelis will give a rat's patootie about that now.

Here is another issue I have. Between Gaza, Hexbollah attacking from Lebanon and the Syrian border, in an attempt to overwhelm the Iron Dome and other similar systems, at some point the Israelis will be running low with armaments for those systems. At that point what happens? Does Israeli command take a big gulp and say, "F*** it all," and launch a nuke?


I honestly don't understand why they don't go ahead and drop a nuke on Gaza just to deter further f***ery from the other actors and Iran. That would stop this crap in a heartbeat. Nukes aren't much of a deterrent if no one believes you're going to use them.


Because even though justified, they'd become the villain of the world. It'd serve to generate more hatred from Muslims worldwide and have nation states likely shifting to endorse or become fundamentalists eager to crusade against Israel


Not sure you understand how much the Muslims already hate Israel.
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aggiehawg
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6:40p, 10/9/23
AG
Frankly, I expected the "shock and awe" that had Peter Arnett and Bernie Shaw drunk under a table in Bagdad.

Or since I never saw it when it happened, Dresden.
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Not a Bot
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In reply to aggiehawg • 6:42p, 10/9/23
AG
This is a very intense air to ground assault and Israel has not released most of their footage. They are being particularly brutal this time. Far more of Gaza is being levelled than ever before.
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SHELTON@TAYLOR
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6:43p, 10/9/23
Mahmoud Al-Zahar: "The entire planet will be under our law, there will be no more Jews or Christian traitors."

https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/article-765304


To those of you claiming islamist restraint, SHUT UP this is what HAMAS says
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Who?mikejones!
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6:43p, 10/9/23
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Rebel Yell
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In reply to TAMUallen • 6:45p, 10/9/23
AG
TAMUallen said:
flashplayer said:
aggiehawg said:
Quote:
The problem is that many are launched in the middle of densely packed residential neighborhoods, so not always easy to hit back.
I don't think the Israelis will give a rat's patootie about that now.

Here is another issue I have. Between Gaza, Hexbollah attacking from Lebanon and the Syrian border, in an attempt to overwhelm the Iron Dome and other similar systems, at some point the Israelis will be running low with armaments for those systems. At that point what happens? Does Israeli command take a big gulp and say, "F*** it all," and launch a nuke?


I honestly don't understand why they don't go ahead and drop a nuke on Gaza just to deter further f***ery from the other actors and Iran. That would stop this crap in a heartbeat. Nukes aren't much of a deterrent if no one believes you're going to use them.


Because even though justified, they'd become the villain of the world. It'd serve to generate more hatred from Muslims worldwide and have nation states likely shifting to endorse or become fundamentalists eager to crusade against Israel


Generate more hatred from the Muslim world?

At this point, does Israel care about that? Palestine wants to exterminate Jews. The question was if they lose the iron dome do they launch? It is a real possibility. If they lose the Iron Dome, they would be over run and cease to exist. At that point they don't care about making more enemies, they are about to be exterminated.

If there was ever a time to use a nuke, Israel would have the justification.
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Fat Black Swan
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6:47p, 10/9/23
AG
Nm
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TAMUallen
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In reply to Rebel Yell • 6:48p, 10/9/23
AG
Rebel Yell said:
TAMUallen said:
flashplayer said:
aggiehawg said:
Quote:
The problem is that many are launched in the middle of densely packed residential neighborhoods, so not always easy to hit back.
I don't think the Israelis will give a rat's patootie about that now.

Here is another issue I have. Between Gaza, Hexbollah attacking from Lebanon and the Syrian border, in an attempt to overwhelm the Iron Dome and other similar systems, at some point the Israelis will be running low with armaments for those systems. At that point what happens? Does Israeli command take a big gulp and say, "F*** it all," and launch a nuke?


I honestly don't understand why they don't go ahead and drop a nuke on Gaza just to deter further f***ery from the other actors and Iran. That would stop this crap in a heartbeat. Nukes aren't much of a deterrent if no one believes you're going to use them.


Because even though justified, they'd become the villain of the world. It'd serve to generate more hatred from Muslims worldwide and have nation states likely shifting to endorse or become fundamentalists eager to crusade against Israel


Generate more hatred from the Muslim world?

At this point, does Israel care about that? Palestine wants to exterminate Jews. The question was if they lose the iron dome do they launch? It is a real possibility. If they lose the Iron Dome, they would be over run and cease to exist. At that point they don't care about making more enemies, they are about to be exterminated.

If there was ever a time to use a nuke, Israel would have the justification.


Yes more hatred. It'd be an outright war without using proxies. It'd be end of world, world War 3 type of situation with likely Muslim nations sunni/Shia, who war with each other, banding together to fight for the destruction of Israel and any other nation who stands with Israel
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captkirk
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In reply to FireAg • 6:50p, 10/9/23
AG
FireAg said:
Nitro Power said:
45-70Ag said:
Why would Iran do that though? We don't have to fight a war with boots on the ground. A few strategic drone strikes and you can cripple them.
Here's my concern...we don't know what dangers are now lurking within our own borders...

I have a real sense of fear now that the enemy is already here and ready to strike...

And I don't mean with protests and signs and flag waving/burning...I mean strike with deadly force like they have just done in Israel...

Difference is...they didn't have to fly in on paragliders or bulldoze through a wire fence...our government willingly let them in...
FBI is too busy tracking Trump supporters
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sharpdressedman
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6:51p, 10/9/23
Hamas now threatening to execute hostages if Israel does not cease bombing. If hostages are murdered, I anticipate the price in Palestinian civilians be at least 100x.

This is going bad at an accelerating rate.
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Who?mikejones!
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In reply to sharpdressedman • 6:51p, 10/9/23
They're already dead
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TAMUallen
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In reply to sharpdressedman • 6:53p, 10/9/23
AG
sharpdressedman said:
Hamas now threatening to execute hostages if Israel does not cease bombing. If hostages are murdered, I anticipate the price in Palestinian civilians be at least 100x.

This is going bad at an accelerating rate.


It's empty threats from Hamas in an effort to stop the retaliation. Very likely that a high percentage of hostages have already been tortured and murdered.
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aggiehawg
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In reply to Rebel Yell • 6:55p, 10/9/23
AG
Quote:
Generate more hatred from the Muslim world?

At this point, does Israel care about that? Palestine wants to exterminate Jews. The question was if they lose the iron dome do they launch? It is a real possibility. If they lose the Iron Dome, they would be over run and cease to exist. At that point they don't care about making more enemies, they are about to be exterminated.

If there was ever a time to use a nuke, Israel would have the justification.
I can't help but think that too. They deny they have them but if they do, why not launch? Faced with extermination, in any event? I hate this but pushing people to that limit will result in that. MADD if one gets the first shots off? In such a small country?

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TRM
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6:59p, 10/9/23
AG
Quote:
The accounts coming out from the music festival are horrific. They need to be shared. The world needs to know the evil that innocent people faced this weekend.

Here is one account from one of the survivors May Hayat (part 1/2):

So I went to work with my girlfriend Liron at the bar in the Nova's party, the whole night and morning we were together. We had so much fun.

There was a beautiful sunrise and we went towards our trailer to drink coffee and rest. Then the nightmare began- rockets started flying over our heads.

The music was stopped and we waited for the situation to calm down so we could go home. Suddenly I get a phone call from a friend who says that she and everyone who's started driving back home from the party is being shot.

I ran to the police officers closest to me to ask them to go and reinforce the people in the vehicles, but then we realized that there's so many terrorists in our area and they are very close to us. There was one big chaos.

We went to hide in the police command room and we all sat down on the floor. Some people cried, some shouted, some had anxiety attacks and some were completely silent.

I hugged everyone who cried and couldn't catch their breath, and Liron helped the wounded while we were under attack.

The noise of the gunshots began to get closer, the policemen stood in the doorway ready with their weapons and looked at each other with a frightened look and shouted to "storm!".

They turned to us just before leaving the room and told us to "run and pray." They came out and got shot one after the other. The terrorists fired bursts of gunfire at the room and for a moment there was shocking silence. We left the room running to the battlefield, and while I'm running I turned back and I saw Liron. She stayed there and didn't come with us.

We tried our best and ran as fast as possible until we reached some ambulance and hid behind it. The shots came from every direction. To our right, to our left, behind and in front of us.

I saw someone yelling at us, "Come here, it's safer." I ran towards him, no one came with me. Me and him continued running together until we saw a vehicle approaching us. It was one of the party members who offered us to get into his car and try to escape with him.

We got on his car and as soon as he started driving the terrorist started shooting at us. We made a U-turn and drove to the other way and we were shooted there as well. We returned back to the place we were at the beginning and suddenly the car's wheel got stuck in the sand while we are still under fire.

We ran out of the car until we noticed a hole in the ground. We entered inside, held hands and prayed. It was just the two of us, the guy who was driving the car disappeared.

I told him 'Do you know the stories of the Holocaust in which people pretended to be dead so they wouldn't be noticed? This is what gonna happen to us. He covered us with sand and we were in silence for about an hour until we started hearing footsteps coming towards us and we prayed for a miracle.

They found us. 8 terrorists in front of both of us. I closed my eyes tightly because I was sure they gonna shot us but then they grabbed us and lofted us from the ground. They took our phones and everything we had in our pockets. They announced in their walkie-talkie, 'We have 2 more abductees."

One of the terrorists started talking to me in Arabic and I told him I can't understand him. I didn't shout, I didn't went crazy, I became apathetic. He put his jacket on me while the rest of them was looking at me like I was a piece of meat because I was wearing a tank top. In one hand he holds my hand, and in the other hand he holds a missile.

We started walking and I saw that they were looking on the floor for things like cigarettes and drinks. So I helped them. I didn't want to resist.
Quote:
Part 2/2:

The guy who was with me didn't stop crying and begging for his life. I tried to explain to him that he needs to stop crying, "It annoys them, stop crying and everything will be fine." They had knives and hammers. I realized we were in danger.

At first he listened to me but very quickly he returned to his initial and fell on his knees and again screamed and begged for his life. And then - he didn't scream anymore. They murdered him in front of my eyes. I was left alone with them.

One of them took a board and every few seconds hit me on the head. The other one was holding a knife and every few seconds approached me threateningly. It was important for them to humiliate me.

The terrorist who held my hand shouted at them and "took me under his wing." We started walking towards one of their cards and luckily their cars didn't start. The threatening terrorist with the knife, the one who a moment ago murdered the guy who was with me, said to me "If you try to escape I'll kill you like I killed your friend."

I remained standing and the terrorist who "took me under his wing" told me I can go. I didn't know what to do and in one moment I just started running. I stole a glance back and saw that no weapon was pointed at me so I continued to run like crazy.

I hid under the stage of the party and laid down next to 3 dead people. I smeared myself with the blood that dripped from one of the bodies next to me and pretended to be dead for 3 hours.

3 hours that felt like an eternity. 3 hours where terrorists pass by me and shoot everywhere and burn every possible piece of land, while rockets float above my head. For 3 hours I lie among corpses and wonder what will happen to me.

And suddenly I started hearing people talk in Hebrew. I screamed loudly "HELP!". These were the army soldiers, they came and took me to a trailer with paramedics, along with other survivors. In the background, the shooting continued, and in front of my eyes I saw difficult sights that I will spare you and will not describe here.

So it's true that they murdered my soul and I hope that one day I will be able to heal it. But Liron, remember Liron from the beginning go the story? My girlfriend. They killed her. They killed are my hero and unfortunately no one will ever be able to bring her back."

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captkirk
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In reply to txags92 • 7:01p, 10/9/23
AG
txags92 said:
Agthatbuilds said:


This is one of the non militant Palestinians, fwiw.

Yeah, hope you like the dark
I hate when they let people say stuff like that and don't immediately show them the videos of the ravers being attacked and abducted. Why let them say that without showing them easily available proof that they are telling a lie? Confront them with reality and then ask them to explain why the world shouldn't turn their country into a glass parking lot.
It's CNN
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45-70Ag
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7:01p, 10/9/23
AG
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will25u
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7:03p, 10/9/23
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Isosceles_Kramer
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In reply to TAMUallen • 7:05p, 10/9/23
Agreed. Based on the videos out there of the already killed hostages, footage of people executed at bus stops, in cars, children murdered with their parents, and worse I just can't imagine Israel believes anyone is actually alive and coming home. Unbelievably sad
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Raiderjay
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7:09p, 10/9/23
Horrible

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SHELTON@TAYLOR
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In reply to aggiehawg • 7:12p, 10/9/23
aggiehawg said:
Quote:
Generate more hatred from the Muslim world?

At this point, does Israel care about that? Palestine wants to exterminate Jews. The question was if they lose the iron dome do they launch? It is a real possibility. If they lose the Iron Dome, they would be over run and cease to exist. At that point they don't care about making more enemies, they are about to be exterminated.

If there was ever a time to use a nuke, Israel would have the justification.
I can't help but think that too. They deny they have them but if they do, why not launch? Faced with extermination, in any event? I hate this but pushing people to that limit will result in that. MADD if one gets the first shots off? In such a small country?

My largest concern, is what you itemized. Weve always been afraid of Iran or Russia or North Korea having the lunacy to launch a nuke. In this case, it wouldnt be lunacy, it would be self defense in the last ditch effort to exist. I don't know that its ever been more likely for a Nuclear response, than it is now.
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