No Spin Ag said:

---

Ags77 said:

---

Rudy is undoubtedly one of the most tragic falls from grace in our lifetimes. He was such a good Mayor and was widely respected . Amazing how far he has fallen.

---

It is amazing how far he's fallen. He looks and acts nothing like the man who did so much for New York. But that was seemingly a lifetime before he became involved with Trump, and we're seeing how his own words and actions are going to give him a very different ending to his life and career than the one he would've had had not been so loyal to Trump.

There will likely be TV movies that will make a good amount of money by starting their movie with Rudy getting such high praise from W and becoming America's Mayor, then switching scenes with him serving Trump and showing where that gets him.

A shame, really.

---

A shame someone loves America over their self-interest, enough to take down the mob, clean up a crime ridden city, investigate Biden corruption in Ukraine, then lead the charge on helping to expose election interference and manipulation in 2020. What a shameful man.

We need more men like the men of the Biden family. And Axelrod. And Obama. And Janet Reno. And Eric Holder. And Merrick Garland. True men that represent the best American ideals.

SockStilkings said:

---

Ags77 said:

---

Yes, I definitely think Rudy fell from grace. He was once beloved and respected by millions of Americans.

He has become a sad, broken, delusional man. He lost his family, his fortune, and worst of all his reputation.

It's sad. Not to be celebrated but more of a warning that it can happen. Life is just a series of choices.

---

He was recently campaigning with his son and yes he and his oldest daughter are estranged and he has been in multiple relationships - not an unusual thing for a man married to work for 50+ years.

He was Trump's personal attorney and as such his role, despite having political nuances, was not related to Trump's role as POTUS (which makes Rudy more like Sidney Powell and less like Mark Meadows.

Fortune you say...? Well considering he worked in public service for most of his career and then ran unsuccessfully for office for most of the time since then I am not sure what fortune you think he was to have amassed. I mean, we know how the Dems do it, but you are making some huge assumptions.

His reputation still good in my book. His pursuit of Ukraine and Hunter's laptop may prove critical in saving this Country from permanent Dem takeover.

Life is a series of choices, including posting poor takes on Rudy with lack of accurate information.

---

Well, if you don't think Rudy has fallen from where he was at the time he was the Mayor of New York, then we just will have to respectfully disagree.

Quote:

---

non-maga (i.e. the majority of this country) is going to see him

---

so the pravda msm brainwashed and programmed npc bots... aka.. "he masses"

GeorgiAg said:

---

This is a civil suit by the two Georgia poll workers he disparaged. He failed to comply with discovery. After ignoring another Court Order, the Court entered a default judgment, to include punitive damages. Also ordered to pay $134k in their legal fees. There will be a further hearing on damages. I suspect that will be a large verdict which he now cannot fight on factual grounds. And this is a civil suit not subject to any pardon.

Rudy is headed into bankruptcy. And good luck getting a bankruptcy court to discharge punitive damages. Why not comply with discovery? Either Rudy is an idiot or his counsel is.

NEWS: Judge grants default judgment to Ruby FREEMAN and Shaye MOSS in defamation lawsuit against Rudy Giuliani and grants punitive sanctions as well. Details TKhttps://t.co/mAdWdM9bZB pic.twitter.com/OfVpAqH5yr

— Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) August 30, 2023

---

More examples of a corrupt system encouraging and promoting women who were invested in the fraud in Georgia.

oh no said:

---

Quote:

---

non-maga (i.e. the majority of this country) is going to see him

---

so the pravda msm brainwashed and programmed npc bots... aka.. "he masses"

---

You do realize that every cult sees the rest of society how you just described your version of others (npc bots). But, regardless, how you see the rest, including many Republicans who don't want Trump and his maga ways anymore, that's still how life is.

Old Army Metal said:

---

If republicans or conservatives who are in power had a shred of credible evidence they would be shouting it from the rooftops.

But they don't, all they have is catch phrases and platitudes.

---

they are shouting, see Comer in post above. but they aren't in power. They don't have the senate and the regime controls DOJ, FBI, working against them in every way they possibly can. they even appointed a biased special counsel to takeover to they can help suppress and stop the congressional committee.

all the emails, texts, whistleblowers, SARs from financial institutions, FBI form, etc. are not catch phrases and platitudes.

We no longer have a legal system. I hope the Trump haters are happy now. Their children and their 401ks are toast.

No Spin Ag said:

---

Ags77 said:

---

Rudy is undoubtedly one of the most tragic falls from grace in our lifetimes. He was such a good Mayor and was widely respected . Amazing how far he has fallen.

---

It is amazing how far he's fallen. He looks and acts nothing like the man who did so much for New York. But that was seemingly a lifetime before he became involved with Trump, and we're seeing how his own words and actions are going to give him a very different ending to his life and career than the one he would've had had not been so loyal to Trump.

There will likely be TV movies that will make a good amount of money by starting their movie with Rudy getting such high praise from W and becoming America's Mayor, then switching scenes with him serving Trump and showing where that gets him.

A shame, really.

---

"A man who represents himself has a fool for a lawyer"

Quote:

---

But now that he's admitted to making false statements about the election workers, and intentionally defaulted, your children and their 401ks are toast. Goodbye legal system, children, and 401ks. We hardly knew ye.

---

Positing a hypothetical under arguendo in a pleading is not an admission.

Rudy should plead senility, I think, and also then claim something silly like horse face lying dog pony soldiers made him do it. Then cite something about Ukraine and Russians (and maybe aliens and tic tacs) so he can demand discovery of poopy pants documents.

nortex97 said:

---

Rudy should plead senility, I think, and also then claim something silly like horse face lying dog pony soldiers made him do it. Then cite something about Ukraine and Russians (and maybe aliens and tic tacs) so he can demand discovery of poopy pants documents.

---

That ship has sailed. Next up is just a damages hearing. Bring lube. D.C. jury is going to light him up.

The more I think about this - Rudy is already broke. He probably didn't want to respond to discovery because it would have been embarrassing to him. That's the only thing I can think of.

Oh ok. I honestly haven't paid any attention to this crap because I've been sick of Rudy since around he left office.

Old Army Metal said:

---

If republicans or conservatives who are in power had a shred of credible evidence they would be shouting it from the rooftops.

But they don't, all they have is catch phrases and platitudes. Hillary Clinton would/should be rotting in a prison cell if like 1% of the claims were true.

---

Everytime I think I've read the dumbest take on here....

They need to grow a pair.
Why does everyone (liberal) who gets their feelings hurt want to sue.
What a waste.

GeorgiAg said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Rudy should plead senility, I think, and also then claim something silly like horse face lying dog pony soldiers made him do it. Then cite something about Ukraine and Russians (and maybe aliens and tic tacs) so he can demand discovery of poopy pants documents.

---

That ship has sailed. Next up is just a damages hearing. Bring lube. D.C. jury is going to light him up.

The more I think about this - Rudy is already broke. He probably didn't want to respond to discovery because it would have been embarrassing to him. That's the only thing I can think of.

---

He was worth millions now squandered away. Hate to see a fallen hero but karma will be the final justice.

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

But now that he's admitted to making false statements about the election workers, and intentionally defaulted, your children and their 401ks are toast. Goodbye legal system, children, and 401ks. We hardly knew ye.

---

Positing a hypothetical under arguendo in a pleading is not an admission.

---

Doesn't matter how many times you point that out, the left on here will continue to run with the lie that Rudy admitted to defaming those poor gentle ladies who were just doing their jobs. It's really sad how other lawyers repeat the lie too.

Slicer97 said:

---

Old Army Metal said:

---

If republicans or conservatives who are in power had a shred of credible evidence they would be shouting it from the rooftops.

But they don't, all they have is catch phrases and platitudes. Hillary Clinton would/should be rotting in a prison cell if like 1% of the claims were true.

---

Everytime I think I've read the dumbest take on here....

---

LOL strap in my guy. It's going to get worse before it gets worse.

There is another problem with Judge Howell's order today. Rudy could turn over his electronic devices because the FBI has them.

GeorgiAg said:

---

Yikes, this jury instruction is going to be damning. That jury is going to murder him. Seriously, what is he thinking? Has he just given up? It's sad, really.

Every thing Trump touches dies.

Judge says the jury will be instructed to "infer that [Giuliani] is intentionally trying to hide relevant discovery about his financial assets for the purpose of artificially deflating his net worth," unless he ponies up.https://t.co/IhH5PLO3wI pic.twitter.com/KXDUMI6tD8

— Aaron Blake (@AaronBlake) August 30, 2023

---

Since when does a "judge" decide for the jury?

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

But now that he's admitted to making false statements about the election workers, and intentionally defaulted, your children and their 401ks are toast. Goodbye legal system, children, and 401ks. We hardly knew ye.

---

Positing a hypothetical under arguendo in a pleading is not an admission.

---

Good point. What was his exact phrasing in stating the hypothetical?

Ags77 said:

---

Rudy is undoubtedly one of the most tragic falls from grace in our lifetimes. He was such a good Mayor and was widely respected . Amazing how far he has fallen.

---

He entered the world of celebrity, money, power, and sex.

And all he wanted was more, more, more.

Rudy's stipulation:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.238720/gov.uscourts.dcd.238720.84.2.pdf

I don't see how that is a hypothetical.

Fightin_Aggie said:

---

GeorgiAg said:

---

Yikes, this jury instruction is going to be damning. That jury is going to murder him. Seriously, what is he thinking? Has he just given up? It's sad, really.

Every thing Trump touches dies.

Judge says the jury will be instructed to "infer that [Giuliani] is intentionally trying to hide relevant discovery about his financial assets for the purpose of artificially deflating his net worth," unless he ponies up.https://t.co/IhH5PLO3wI pic.twitter.com/KXDUMI6tD8

— Aaron Blake (@AaronBlake) August 30, 2023

---

Since when does a "judge" decide for the jury?

---

The judge is imposing sanctions against Guiliani for his outright refusal to provide discovery.

Quote:

---

The downside risk of turning the discovery process into what this Court has previously described as a "murky mess" is that Rule 37 provides a remedy: sanctions, including entry of default judgment, against Giuliani. Given the willful shirking of his discovery obligations in anticipation of and during this litigation, Giuliani leaves little other choice. For the reasons set out below, the pending motion is granted. Default judgment will be entered against Giuliani as a discovery sanction pursuant to Rules 37(e)(2)(C) and 37(b)(2)(a)(vi), holding him civilly liable on plaintiffs' defamation, intentional infliction of emotional distress, civil conspiracy, and punitive damage claims, and Giuliani is directed to reimburse plaintiffs for attorneys' fees and costs associated with their instant motion.

---

Note that it isn't over yet. If Giuliani continues to refuse to provide discovery, the judge could even bar Giuliani from presenting evidence in his defense and other sanctions.

eric76 said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

But now that he's admitted to making false statements about the election workers, and intentionally defaulted, your children and their 401ks are toast. Goodbye legal system, children, and 401ks. We hardly knew ye.

---

Positing a hypothetical under arguendo in a pleading is not an admission.

---

Good point. What was his exact phrasing in stating the hypothetical?

---

Arguendo is used to say that even if everything they say is true, I still win because [defenses]. It's almost never used to concede everything they say as true, much less in a stipulation, but I still win. It's no longer arguendo once you stipulate it to being beyond argument. The stip. is even styled as Nolo Contendere (no contest).

Good for you for pointing it out, as thankless as that exercise usually is. I wasn't going to be the first.

Concedes statements were defamation per se, published them, and does not contest the statements were false are not admissions Rudy's counsel would have used if dealing in hypothetical falsehoods or any position to not concede same. I can see why he limited the admissions to the defamation suit though. State and federal actors will need to do their own work.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.238720/gov.uscourts.dcd.238720.84.2.pdf

Of course if Rudy was going to default making any sort of stip. proving up the Plaintiffs' case was beyond foolhardy. Make the Judge find it all after having to enter default rather than concede anything. That certainly would have been better, hypothetically.

Thanks.

I was mainly wondered what he said that was hypothetical.

That was the first time I ever heard of the term "arguendo".

eric76 said:

---

Thanks.

I was mainly wondered what he said that was hypothetical.

That was the first time I ever heard of the term "arguendo".

---

It's one of many Latin words whose meanings are readily ascertainable if you know the definition of the English derivatives (arguably, argue, argumentative, etc.), and Giuliani didn't employ the English word or its root in the stipulation.

Nolo arguendo would be more accurate.

I suspect this exchange might be a coy softball, but I appreciate what we're doing here since you were the first to say anything, so hopefully any blowback falls on you.

This is what occurs in marxist countries. Satan and his minions always win.

I think it's because God doesn't see the point of even trying in Marxist countries if everyone is going to share salvation from his Son's sacrifice equally. People who sin less deserve more. Is God a capitalist or commie?

mjschiller said:

---

This is what occurs in marxist countries. Satan and his minions always win.

---

What a happens in non-Marxist counties when a person is sued for defaming another, admits for litigation purposes to the statements being defamatory, and refuses to participate in the discovery process of the litigation on said defamation?

shiftyandquick said:

---

Ags77 said:

---

Rudy is undoubtedly one of the most tragic falls from grace in our lifetimes. He was such a good Mayor and was widely respected . Amazing how far he has fallen.

---

He entered the world of celebrity, money, power, and sex.

And all he wanted was more, more, more.

---

Yep