aggie93 said:

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amercer said:

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Or no one wanted a cheap car anymore.

Pretty sure most people have been signing up for $800 a month payments on 72 month notes for a long time now. If people were clamoring for cheap ass basic cars instead of King Ranch F150s, there would probably still be some options.

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Always a market for a cheap, reliable car.

BTW, whomever can tie into the "Rich Men North of Richmond" vote as well as the folks here is going to be hard to stop.

The cost of living crisis is astronomical everywhere. It feels like we're just working to barely survive 🚨🚨🚨

Compilation of videos with people talking about the struggle going on.

This is a must watch video. 😳

🔊 pic.twitter.com/29AZExlnwX

— Wall Street Silver (@WallStreetSilv) August 15, 2023

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Liberals getting what they voted for

Do some research.

Nissan Versa starts at $15,980
Link

All this camera, side curtain airbag, shut off at the light BS raises the costs of cars.
Thank you gubbermint.
No airbags, die like men.

Hungry Ojos said:

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Agthatbuilds said:

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Sea Speed said:

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I truly don't know how most families survive day to day and I have no idea how we haven't collapsed yet.

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There was a survey that dropped saying something like 70% of people earning 170k a year live pay check to pay check and worry about income.

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There is literally NO WAY that can be true! 70%????????

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It's easy to do in some places like SF and NYC where you find most of the people making that kind of money. Median rent is $3600/mth for a one bedroom apartment in SF. After taxes in California, someone making $170k is only taking home about $130k, so even staying in a median priced one bedroom apartment, they're spending 33% of their take home income on rent. Then there's the higher cost of gas, food, utilities, etc and it's easy to be paycheck to paycheck even on that huge salary.

Charpie said:

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It has nothing to do with inflation. It has everything to do with the OEM's being smart and not flooding the market with a ton of supply like they did before COVID. They are making a ton of cash. They give zero ****s about you.

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I would argue it is about the ridiculous amount of things required in a car now. The CAFE standards make it so that the engines have to be ultra efficient and they have to use more expensive materials to reduce weight. The amount of safety features is off the charts. Every little bit adds up. Of course labor and so many other things add up. The model is fracturing and going to get worse.

Of course a lot of this is driven by the consumer who wants the nice stuff. They don't want a basic and boring car. That said the new reality of the economy is going to hit a lot of people in the mouth. My Dad was born during the Depression and grew up with things tight as a drum. Those folks grew up knowing they needed to be smart with their money because they understood just how bad things can get. The thing that will be so hard for people today is they don't tend to have family and church and community culture that made the hard times so much more bearable. The idea of "We didn't have much but we had each other". So many don't really have that and it's going to make things so much harder for them.

A lot of this is intentional of course. Plenty of forces would love for people not to own their own cars but instead just pay for an electric car to come and pick them up and take them places. It's great until you realize you lose your freedom when that happens.

In other news...
The cost of a big mac meal is pushing 10 bucks...
Thank you Joe Biden.

Charpie said:

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Psycho Bunny said:

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Watch for 84, 96, 108 and 120 month payments becoming a thing at dealerships. .

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Where have you been? 84 month payments have been a thing since before COVID.

Banks are dumb enough to finance these cars.

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Yeah, those banks sure are dumb. They are definitely struggling.

It's not a republican or a democrat problem. It's a problem that these financial institutions will continue to do everything that is legally allowed for them to do (and often times push right into the grey areas). Additionally, they know that they are too big to fail and have great lobbyists so if they make some bad bets -- doesn't matter.

"Oh these dumb banks giving out 84 month payments!"

"Oh these dumb banks allowing massive student loans for gender studies degrees!"

Do you guys see banks struggling? I see an additional one pop up in just about every retail space on a regular basis.

When the people can't pay and **** hits the fan? Bailed out. Everyone's taxes go up. They get told not to do it again. Rinse, repeat.

Charpie said:

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Psycho Bunny said:

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Watch for 84, 96, 108 and 120 month payments becoming a thing at dealerships. .

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Where have you been? 84 month payments have been a thing since before COVID.

Banks are dumb enough to finance these cars.

OEM's are keeping the market tight because they are making a ton of money off of them, as are dealerships.

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I would bet most are not financed by the bank but through the finance company for the manufacturer. I can foresee a time when the term is well beyond 84 months and buyers who cannot pay cash will always owe a car note, rolling the unpaid balance into the replacement.

doubledog said:

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In other news...
The cost of a big mac meal is pushing 10 bucks...
Thank you Joe Biden.

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That's the true crime in all of this. Even taco bell is going up on prices.

Logos Stick said:

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What is your point?

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That you just might be on onto something.

Absolutely. But whose fault is it that people go off a buy those cars?

Mitsubishi actually is a cheap car manufacturer. If you have crappy credit, they will get you financed somehow with a crappy ass 19 or 25% loan. If people are living beyond their means, I don't feel sorry for them. They don't have to drive a Tahoe. They can keep their current car.

Oh for sure. There was a thread about this very thing right here like 5 months ago where CDUB said the very same thing.

Charpie said:

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Absolutely. But whose fault is it that people go off a buy those cars?

Mitsubishi actually is a cheap car manufacturer. If you have crappy credit, they will get you financed somehow with a crappy ass 19 or 25% loan. If people are living beyond their means, I don't feel sorry for them. They don't have to drive a Tahoe. They can keep their current car.

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As far as banks, we don't need brick and mortar banks for the most part anymore but you see one on every corner. During the mortgage and housing crash, they prospered. Most should have gone under for good.

Sea Speed said:

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I truly don't know how most families survive day to day and I have no idea how we haven't collapsed yet.

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i think this often

Logos Stick said:

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Charpie said:

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Psycho Bunny said:

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Watch for 84, 96, 108 and 120 month payments becoming a thing at dealerships. .

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Where have you been? 84 month payments have been a thing since before COVID.

Banks are dumb enough to finance these cars.

OEM's are keeping the market tight because they are making a ton of money off of them, as are dealerships.

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Lol, it's inflation.

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This is by design.
Make cars prohibitively expensive, and force middle class folks to fund public transportation boondoggles..

Also, don't ever buy a new car.

No Spin Ag said:

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Charpie said:

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Absolutely. But whose fault is it that people go off a buy those cars?

Mitsubishi actually is a cheap car manufacturer. If you have crappy credit, they will get you financed somehow with a crappy ass 19 or 25% loan. If people are living beyond their means, I don't feel sorry for them. They don't have to drive a Tahoe. They can keep their current car.

---

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We loaned the (bi-weekly) housemaid/clener $5K for a car, and then realized she used it for a down payment for a Brand New Tahoe.
Our newest is a 2015 Explorer (bought in 2017)

deddog said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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Charpie said:

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Absolutely. But whose fault is it that people go off a buy those cars?

Mitsubishi actually is a cheap car manufacturer. If you have crappy credit, they will get you financed somehow with a crappy ass 19 or 25% loan. If people are living beyond their means, I don't feel sorry for them. They don't have to drive a Tahoe. They can keep their current car.

---

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We loaned the (bi-weekly) housemaid/clener $5K for a car, and then realized she used it for a down payment for a Brand New Tahoe.
Our newest is a 2015 Explorer (bought in 2017)

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God, I'd be pissed.

Hungry Ojos said:

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deddog said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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Charpie said:

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Absolutely. But whose fault is it that people go off a buy those cars?

Mitsubishi actually is a cheap car manufacturer. If you have crappy credit, they will get you financed somehow with a crappy ass 19 or 25% loan. If people are living beyond their means, I don't feel sorry for them. They don't have to drive a Tahoe. They can keep their current car.

---

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We loaned the (bi-weekly) housemaid/clener $5K for a car, and then realized she used it for a down payment for a Brand New Tahoe.
Our newest is a 2015 Explorer (bought in 2017)

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God, I'd be pissed.

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Why, if you got paid back ?

Hungry Ojos said:

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Agthatbuilds said:

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Sea Speed said:

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I truly don't know how most families survive day to day and I have no idea how we haven't collapsed yet.

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There was a survey that dropped saying something like 70% of people earning 170k a year live pay check to pay check and worry about income.

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There is literally NO WAY that can be true! 70%????????

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I absolutely believe that. Humble brag I know, but I will make around half a million this year and was just under that last year. After all of the expenses every month, with kids to take care of, minus income tax and property taxes, I still feel like I can't really "get ahead" and don't have as much disposable income as I should. People who have real money know that "six figures" means nothing these days, and even half a million a year is not that much.

Granted, I do not "worry" about money, but I still think about it all the time. If I were to reduce what I make by 2/3 down to $170k, I would absolutely be worrying about money. I would probably have a less expensive house and have less expensive other things, and I don't think I would be living paycheck to paycheck necessarily, but assuming I wanted to take care of my family as well as I do now. I would absolutely be worrying about money.

Charpie said:

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Psycho Bunny said:

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Watch for 84, 96, 108 and 120 month payments becoming a thing at dealerships. .

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Where have you been? 84 month payments have been a thing since before COVID.

Banks are dumb enough to finance these cars.

OEM's are keeping the market tight because they are making a ton of money off of them, as are dealerships.

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Disagree, seems to be plenty of supply out there for most vehicles. Prices are just way high.

FishrCoAg said:

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Hungry Ojos said:

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deddog said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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Charpie said:

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Absolutely. But whose fault is it that people go off a buy those cars?

Mitsubishi actually is a cheap car manufacturer. If you have crappy credit, they will get you financed somehow with a crappy ass 19 or 25% loan. If people are living beyond their means, I don't feel sorry for them. They don't have to drive a Tahoe. They can keep their current car.

---

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We loaned the (bi-weekly) housemaid/clener $5K for a car, and then realized she used it for a down payment for a Brand New Tahoe.
Our newest is a 2015 Explorer (bought in 2017)

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God, I'd be pissed.

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Why, if you got paid back ?

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We weren't pissed, and we were paid back. But the look on my wife's face was priceless when she saw the Tahoe.

Do we want to judge how someone not well-off spends their money? Maybe a car really is all she has going for her (her perspective)?
Or are we encouraging a very questionable purchase? Folks who arent doing well financially, usually get there because of poor decision making.

Either way, Maid learnt her lesson. For her new loan, she claims she needs money for her mums' visa.

TheBonifaceOption said:

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Hungry Ojos said:

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Agthatbuilds said:

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Sea Speed said:

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I truly don't know how most families survive day to day and I have no idea how we haven't collapsed yet.

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There was a survey that dropped saying something like 70% of people earning 170k a year live pay check to pay check and worry about income.

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There is literally NO WAY that can be true! 70%????????

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Thats not 70% of Americans, thats 70% of the employed under $170k.

The true number is probably close to 90% of total Americans.

I would bet only 1-in-10 Americans actually try and save money. The rest spend it faster than they make it.

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50% of Americans literally have nothing (that is $0 for the mathematically challenged) in retirement. The average nest egg for the remaining 50% is $40-80K so I can believe that survey.

Very few people save while the vast majority live paycheck to paycheck regardless of income level.

These stats are why you are going to get the Great Reset because many people are just going to throw in the towel because they can't keep up with their own life. Everyone getting downgraded and operating at the same base subsistence level is going to look good for many. IOW, if I can't live that way then no one else should get to either - make us all equal.

Real wage stagnation is real. Technology makes it to where you can Jack your profitability through the roof by spending a lot of money up front, without needing to pay a specialized employee. So it is "greed" in the sense that if a factory owner automates his machine and his warehouse he spends a ton of money up front, but then keeps all the savings from the labor over the years.

Technology creates a smaller number of higher paid jobs. Unfortunately when the automobile was invented there wasn't a lot of places for the horses that used to pull the carriages to go.

YouBet said:

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TheBonifaceOption said:

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Hungry Ojos said:

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Agthatbuilds said:

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Sea Speed said:

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I truly don't know how most families survive day to day and I have no idea how we haven't collapsed yet.

---

There was a survey that dropped saying something like 70% of people earning 170k a year live pay check to pay check and worry about income.

---

There is literally NO WAY that can be true! 70%????????

---

Thats not 70% of Americans, thats 70% of the employed under $170k.

The true number is probably close to 90% of total Americans.

I would bet only 1-in-10 Americans actually try and save money. The rest spend it faster than they make it.

---

50% of Americans literally have nothing (that is $0 for the mathematically challenged) in retirement. The average nest egg for the remaining 50% is $40-80K so I can believe that survey.

Very few people save while the vast majority live paycheck to paycheck regardless of income level.

These stats are why you are going to get the Great Reset because many people are just going to throw in the towel because they can't keep up with their own life. Everyone getting downgraded and operating at the same base subsistence level is going to look good for many. IOW, if I can't live that way then no one else should get to either - make us all equal.

---

I heard about this report on the radio, but found it now. It's not exactly as radio described

https://nypost.com/2023/08/14/some-of-the-richest-people-in-america-feel-very-poor-survey/

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2023-are-you-rich-best-cities-to-live-salary/?srnd=premium&sref=MTy2GeXk

Quote:

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In a nationwide survey of over 1,000 objectively wealthy Americans defined in this case as making at least $175,000 a year, roughly the amount required to crack the top 10% of US tax filers a full quarter told us they were either "very poor," "poor," or "getting by but things are tight." Half described themselves as just "comfortable."

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The gist of the article is these people have a spending problem, not an income problem

YouBet said:

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TheBonifaceOption said:

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Hungry Ojos said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

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Sea Speed said:

---

I truly don't know how most families survive day to day and I have no idea how we haven't collapsed yet.

---

There was a survey that dropped saying something like 70% of people earning 170k a year live pay check to pay check and worry about income.

---

There is literally NO WAY that can be true! 70%????????

---

Thats not 70% of Americans, thats 70% of the employed under $170k.

The true number is probably close to 90% of total Americans.

I would bet only 1-in-10 Americans actually try and save money. The rest spend it faster than they make it.

---

50% of Americans literally have nothing (that is $0 for the mathematically challenged) in retirement. The average nest egg for the remaining 50% is $40-80K so I can believe that survey.

Very few people save while the vast majority live paycheck to paycheck regardless of income level.

These stats are why you are going to get the Great Reset because many people are just going to throw in the towel because they can't keep up with their own life. Everyone getting downgraded and operating at the same base subsistence level is going to look good for many. IOW, if I can't live that way then no one else should get to either - make us all equal.

---

The median net worth for those 55-64, those entering retirement age, excluding home equity, is $88k.

$88k!

Over half the country is absolute toast.

Agthatbuilds said:

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YouBet said:

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TheBonifaceOption said:

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Hungry Ojos said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Sea Speed said:

---

I truly don't know how most families survive day to day and I have no idea how we haven't collapsed yet.

---

There was a survey that dropped saying something like 70% of people earning 170k a year live pay check to pay check and worry about income.

---

There is literally NO WAY that can be true! 70%????????

---

Thats not 70% of Americans, thats 70% of the employed under $170k.

The true number is probably close to 90% of total Americans.

I would bet only 1-in-10 Americans actually try and save money. The rest spend it faster than they make it.

---

50% of Americans literally have nothing (that is $0 for the mathematically challenged) in retirement. The average nest egg for the remaining 50% is $40-80K so I can believe that survey.

Very few people save while the vast majority live paycheck to paycheck regardless of income level.

These stats are why you are going to get the Great Reset because many people are just going to throw in the towel because they can't keep up with their own life. Everyone getting downgraded and operating at the same base subsistence level is going to look good for many. IOW, if I can't live that way then no one else should get to either - make us all equal.

---

I heard about this report on the radio, but found it now. It's not exactly as radio described

https://nypost.com/2023/08/14/some-of-the-richest-people-in-america-feel-very-poor-survey/

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2023-are-you-rich-best-cities-to-live-salary/?srnd=premium&sref=MTy2GeXk

Quote:

---

In a nationwide survey of over 1,000 objectively wealthy Americans defined in this case as making at least $175,000 a year, roughly the amount required to crack the top 10% of US tax filers a full quarter told us they were either "very poor," "poor," or "getting by but things are tight." Half described themselves as just "comfortable."

---

The gist of the article is these people have a spending problem, not an income problem

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Yeah, I'm not arguing that. It's definitely a spending problem.

Haven't paid over $20,000 for any car that I've had. But, I prefer a reliable car over other things.

Paid 36k for my last truck in 2013 and don't ever want to buy a new one because of how much they cost now. Gonne drive this rig until the wheels fall off.

"I'm living paycheck to paycheck".

"The rent consumes my entire payycheck".

"I can't afford to purchase coffee or eggs".

"I can't even enjoy a meal out".

"I want $23 an hour to flip burgers".

Agthatbuilds said:

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Sea Speed said:

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I truly don't know how most families survive day to day and I have no idea how we haven't collapsed yet.

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There was a survey that dropped saying something like 70% of people earning 170k a year live pay check to pay check and worry about income.

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As I just bought a new 2023 (dealer used for the discount) car last month I have seen this first hand.

I was doing research and the AVERAGE car bought in the USA now is $35,000.

the AVERAGE.

that used to be an entire year's salary for American households.

oh no said:

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Psycho Bunny said:

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120 month payments

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if only new vehicles lasted more 10 years these days.

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Primary vehicles for us are 19 and 17 years old. Pickup for RV is 21 years old. 580,000 miles between the three

Maintenance and a garage are the key

That, and not wanting the latest and greatest new toy

Two things to correct/add to the thread.

1. Car companies aren't spending more money because they are trying to reduce weight and using expensive materials. Cars are getting bigger, heavier etc. Fords primary reason for utilizing aluminum in trucks was to be able to increase their load capacity, not to meet standards or other fluff.

2. Their is a lot of wealth locked up in baby boomers. Things will change a lot as that generations wealth starts getting passed on.

In 1908, a new Model T cost $825. In 2023 dollars, that would be $27,400.

Average wage was $0.22 an hour, so average person would have to work 3,750 hours to buy one, or about 2 years salary.

At minimum wage today, one would have to work 2,759 hours for a $20,000 car, that is light years better than a Model T.

Average wage in the US right now is $28.96, so you could earn that car in 690 hours.