Logos Stick said:

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I'd say you don't tase unless a threat, but I don't really know the law.

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There has been at least one instance of a public school student being tased to keep him from leaving the building after an altercation with another student. And the US District court dismissed with prejudice the resulting lawsuit.

See https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/school-tasing.pdf

Reading the decision might make you wonder how a troubled kid who missed so much school could make A's and B's without demonstrating any academic progress.

JohnLA762 said:

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Nice reference

TAMUallen said:

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fka ftc said:

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TAMUallen said:

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Everybody is I was wrong here, let me clarify my post.

Was the driver (dead man) wrong? Yes.

Is there any documentation on taser usage in existence that says "use the taser on a non violent offender who is fleeing on an active highway?" It is impossible to envision every circumstance and scenario where a taser may be used. However, in the instance feels that the perp poses a risk to the broader public, they may employ non-lethal force, as happened in this situation.

The LEO is wrong and killed somebody, regrettably so, but he should be supported for making the correct decision in the heat of the moment. More importantly Unfortunately, somebody else will have to live the rest of their life knowing that they killed a man because they refused to obey the officer's instructions when being placed under arrest. were driving while it was dark

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Made some changes so your post made sense.

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Whatever you say buddy.

Nothing I saw meant that death should even be a possibility. I think that human life matters more than making an arrest when you know who the person is and also would have possession of their car.

But whatever makes you feel right and good. Weird to me to be honest

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Once again.

A fleeing criminal who is a wanted suspect presents a danger to the public and to the next officer they encounter. Day after day it's posted on here where a suspect wanted for another crime kills someone, shoots a cop because he doesn't want to be arrested, etc. If these arrests are made when the police have the opportunity then the follow up crimes cannot happen because those criminals are off the streets and being tried for their crime.

It's the exact same principle as the insanity of cashless bail and letting illegals go after they are caught.

At some point you have to measure the safety of the law abiding and innocent public against the life of a criminal who has zero regard for the public.

Your saying "I value the well being of criminals more than the well being of innocent civilians" and then feeling morally superior to everyone else seems weird to me.

If a criminal I'm chasing, ends up becoming a pancake because he/she decided to run into incoming traffic, then theirs not much I can do for their stupidity. My report will be, dumbazz fled the scene, got hit by a vehicle and now lies here one with the road.

This thread shoudl be done.

Cop did not employ deadly force. Perp died not as a result of the cop's actions.

Does not come close to Graham v. Connor standards for unlawful use of force.

Back when the law for police actually applied. Since Chauvin, the SCOTUS rules apparently do not.

Logos Stick said:

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Kvetch said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Kvetch said:

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Logos Stick said:

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I'd say you don't tase unless a threat, but I don't really know the law.

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Hedge with another dumb take.

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How is my take dumb? I'm not hedge.

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.

A fleeing criminal suspect is a threat. You don't have context here as to why he gave a fake name. Even so, if he's standing up he could possibly injure the driver of a car he runs in front of. They're lucky he was prone.

He reaped what he sowed. Run from the cops, take your life into your hands. It's not like he was a teen running from a cop at a busted party.

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Actually...

Googling it came up with this:

"Under the Constitution, when may police officers use deadly force?...

when they have probable cause to believe a suspect poses an imminent threat of serious bodily harm"

https://www.talksonlaw.com/briefs/when-can-police-use-deadly-force

That doesn't seem to be the case here.

A "freeing criminal" is not automatically considered a threat.

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A taser isn't deadly force.

The cop was an idiot for tazering him in traffic. The cop needed to have better situational awareness. He not only got the perp killed, but he put the public in jeopardy by creating a road hazard with the perp's body.

I'm a cop and that was a bad tase. You're responsible for that person when they are immobile. He should not have done that.

Quote:

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A taser isn't deadly force,

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A tazer isn't deadly force,

but use of a tazer on a suspect in the main lanes of I-25 at night when the tazee is at risk of being run over by oncoming traffic rises to the level of deadly force.

Also it looked like the traffic stop occurred on the service road and the suspect jumped the jersey barrier and ran into the main lanes of traffic at night.

So while use of non-deadly force was appropriate to effect a lawful arrest during the initial traffic stop, giving pursuit and tazing the suspect in the main lanes of I-25 was not.

The officers life wasn't in danger by a fleeing suspect and there was no imminent risk to the public because this incident occurred on a remote stretch of interstate.

aggiehawg said:

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This thread shoudl be done.

Cop did not employ deadly force. Perp died not as a result of the cop's actions.

Does not come close to Graham v. Connor standards for unlawful use of force.

Back when the law for police actually applied. Since Chauvin, the SCOTUS rules apparently do not.

---

Agree on the tasing not being deadly force, but numerous posters are claiming that a fleeing perp is a threat and deadly force can be used to stop him. They claim, for example, he could have been shot and killed simply running away through the field.

That's simply not true.

BBRex said:

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creating a road hazard with the perp's body.

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To me, this is not much different from the cop who parked on the railroad tracks and then put that girl in the back of his car. Pure incompetence on the part of the police.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Quote:

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A taser isn't deadly force,

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A tazer isn't deadly force,

but use of a tazer on a suspect in the main lanes of I-25 at night when the tazee is at risk of being run over by oncoming traffic at rises to the level of deadly force.

Also it looked like the traffic stop occurred on the service road and the suspect jumped the jersey barrier and ran into the main lanes of traffic at night.

So while use of non-deadly force was appropriate to effect a lawful arrest during the initial traffic stop, giving pursuit and tazing the suspect in the main lanes of I-25 was not.

The officers life wasn't in danger by a fleeing suspect and there was no imminent risk to the public because this incident occurred on a remote stretch of interstate.

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If the criminal hoodrat didn't want ro get tased in the middle of I-25 at night, than he should not have ran there in evasion of his crimes against the public. What a concept.

Running from the cops, especially across the highway, is always a bad idea, taser or no taser.

PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Quote:

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A taser isn't deadly force,

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A tazer isn't deadly force,

but use of a tazer on a suspect in the main lanes of I-25 at night when the tazee is at risk of being run over by oncoming traffic at rises to the level of deadly force.

Also it looked like the traffic stop occurred on the service road and the suspect jumped the jersey barrier and ran into the main lanes of traffic at night.

So while use of non-deadly force was appropriate to effect a lawful arrest during the initial traffic stop, giving pursuit and tazing the suspect in the main lanes of I-25 was not.

The officers life wasn't in danger by a fleeing suspect and there was no imminent risk to the public because this incident occurred on a remote stretch of interstate.

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If the criminal hoodrat didn't want ro get tased in the middle of I-25 at night, than he should not have ran there in evasion of his crimes against the public. What a concept.

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I get what you saying, I really do.

But thats also the type of administration of justice that led to the burning of cities in 1992 and again in 2020.

So at the end of the day we've got to have some sort of balance when it comes to use of force situations day-to-day.

Logos Stick said:

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aggiehawg said:

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This thread shoudl be done.

Cop did not employ deadly force. Perp died not as a result of the cop's actions.

Does not come close to Graham v. Connor standards for unlawful use of force.

Back when the law for police actually applied. Since Chauvin, the SCOTUS rules apparently do not.

---

Agree on the tasing not being deadly force, but numerous posters are claiming that a fleeing perp is a threat and deadly force can be used to stop him. They claim, for example, he could have been shot and killed simply running away through the field.

That's simply not true.

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You hadn't even paid enough attention to hear the cop say "you're under arrest."

I doubt you paid attention enough to actually get a feel for what posters on here are actually advocating for.

Ags4DaWin said:

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Logos Stick said:

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aggiehawg said:

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This thread shoudl be done.

Cop did not employ deadly force. Perp died not as a result of the cop's actions.

Does not come close to Graham v. Connor standards for unlawful use of force.

Back when the law for police actually applied. Since Chauvin, the SCOTUS rules apparently do not.

---

Agree on the tasing not being deadly force, but numerous posters are claiming that a fleeing perp is a threat and deadly force can be used to stop him. They claim, for example, he could have been shot and killed simply running away through the field.

That's simply not true.

---

You hadn't even paid enough attention to hear the cop say "you're under arrest."

I doubt you paid attention enough to actually get a feel for what posters on here are actually advocating for.

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I paid attention to the incorrect nonsense you posted on page one.

aggiehawg said:

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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Does tazing a suspect in the middle of I-25 at night in February sub-zero temps rise to the level of deadly force?

Maybe.

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No.

After all of this time, when this subkect has come do PEOPLE not understand the guidelines for cops not understood?

People here, on this forum, are jury pools. I have reported for jury calls many time but because I am an attorney and smart, I always get struck.

But let's go somewhere else here.

Jury duty.

That is the only way this country survives. That juries really understood they are the last bastion of defense between the all encompassing power of the state against a singular person, the jury.

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Use of non-deadly force can become use of deadly force depending on the facts and circumstance of the situation. That's all I'm trying to say.

And agreed on the jury.

At the end of the day it's up to the people of Larimer county to determine what flys and what doesn't with regard to policing in their community.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Quote:

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A taser isn't deadly force,

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A tazer isn't deadly force,

but use of a tazer on a suspect in the main lanes of I-25 at night when the tazee is at risk of being run over by oncoming traffic at rises to the level of deadly force.

Also it looked like the traffic stop occurred on the service road and the suspect jumped the jersey barrier and ran into the main lanes of traffic at night.

So while use of non-deadly force was appropriate to effect a lawful arrest during the initial traffic stop, giving pursuit and tazing the suspect in the main lanes of I-25 was not.

The officers life wasn't in danger by a fleeing suspect and there was no imminent risk to the public because this incident occurred on a remote stretch of interstate.

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If the criminal hoodrat didn't want ro get tased in the middle of I-25 at night, than he should not have ran there in evasion of his crimes against the public. What a concept.

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But thats also the type of administration of justice that led to the burning of cities in 1992 and again in 2020.

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There was next to no administration of justice during the 2020 summer of love. This guy had a badge. The rioters were not the same. Please clarify your point.

One suspect ran into a pond to get away from cops and an alligator ate him.

Cops at fault?

Happened in Florida.

https://time.com/4141843/alligator-burglar-florida/

bmks270 said:

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One suspect ran into a pond to get away from cops and an alligator ate him.

Cops at fault?

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Had the perp run into traffic and gotten hit and killed, you might have had a good analogy.

Logos Stick said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Logos Stick said:

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aggiehawg said:

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This thread shoudl be done.

Cop did not employ deadly force. Perp died not as a result of the cop's actions.

Does not come close to Graham v. Connor standards for unlawful use of force.

Back when the law for police actually applied. Since Chauvin, the SCOTUS rules apparently do not.

---

Agree on the tasing not being deadly force, but numerous posters are claiming that a fleeing perp is a threat and deadly force can be used to stop him. They claim, for example, he could have been shot and killed simply running away through the field.

That's simply not true.

---

You hadn't even paid enough attention to hear the cop say "you're under arrest."

I doubt you paid attention enough to actually get a feel for what posters on here are actually advocating for.

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I paid attention to the incorrect nonsense you posted on page one.

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If you can't see how placing a higher value on criminals' safety than the safety and well being of the general public places citizens in danger and hurts them and society then there is no reasoning with you.

Ags4DaWin said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Logos Stick said:

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aggiehawg said:

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This thread shoudl be done.

Cop did not employ deadly force. Perp died not as a result of the cop's actions.

Does not come close to Graham v. Connor standards for unlawful use of force.

Back when the law for police actually applied. Since Chauvin, the SCOTUS rules apparently do not.

---

Agree on the tasing not being deadly force, but numerous posters are claiming that a fleeing perp is a threat and deadly force can be used to stop him. They claim, for example, he could have been shot and killed simply running away through the field.

That's simply not true.

---

You hadn't even paid enough attention to hear the cop say "you're under arrest."

I doubt you paid attention enough to actually get a feel for what posters on here are actually advocating for.

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I paid attention to the incorrect nonsense you posted on page one.

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If you can't see how placing a higher value on criminals than the general public hurts citizens and society then there is no reasoning with you.

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That's a strawman.

I haven't read all this thread, but the driver is mostly to blame for the death...

I timed it and it was 5 seconds between the time the officer tased the guy and the car hit him.

If you are driving and see a flashlight bouncing across the road, you should be slowing down to a crawl.
That is not a hard thing to determine and doesn't look like a car, motorcycle, or anything else.

In fact, if you are driving and see ANY white light directly in front of you in the road, you better be slowing or stopping immediately.

The officer swept side to side with the flashlight and the perp was also lit up.

I don't understand how you can hit a 6 foot long target in the road.

Maybe the cop should not have tazed the guy once he crossed the guard rail, but the car driver is an idiot.

Quote:

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Use of non-deadly force can become use of deadly force depending on the facts and circumstance of the situation. That's all I'm trying to say.

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Then you are wrong.

Would a dumb jury take the same wrong take? Yes, Because juries are dumb and cray cray.

Logos Stick said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Logos Stick said:

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aggiehawg said:

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This thread shoudl be done.

Cop did not employ deadly force. Perp died not as a result of the cop's actions.

Does not come close to Graham v. Connor standards for unlawful use of force.

Back when the law for police actually applied. Since Chauvin, the SCOTUS rules apparently do not.

---

Agree on the tasing not being deadly force, but numerous posters are claiming that a fleeing perp is a threat and deadly force can be used to stop him. They claim, for example, he could have been shot and killed simply running away through the field.

That's simply not true.

---

You hadn't even paid enough attention to hear the cop say "you're under arrest."

I doubt you paid attention enough to actually get a feel for what posters on here are actually advocating for.

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I paid attention to the incorrect nonsense you posted on page one.

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If you can't see how placing a higher value on criminals than the general public hurts citizens and society then there is no reasoning with you.

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That's a strawman.

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It is not. Once again, you weren't oaying attention. earlier in this thread I stated how failing to apprehend criminals often results in the criminals committing violent crimes later on down the road, also puts officers in danger as once escaped they are more likely to be armed and involved in a shooting.

To that affect erring on the side of using force is beneficial to the public as long as such force is reasonable for the apprehension of the criminal/suspect.

In this case, the use of a taser.

If all criminals have to do in order to escape is make it so they put themselves in danger if the officers pursue an apprehension then you make it incredibly easy for criminals to evade apprehension....more criminals on the streets = more dnager to the public.

A wanted criminal is more dangerous and more likely to violently resist arrest or get ahold of a firearm the second time he is pursued. Than the first time an officer pats him down to make sure he has no weapon. This is seen time and time again on the news.

Ags4DaWin said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Logos Stick said:

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aggiehawg said:

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This thread shoudl be done.

Cop did not employ deadly force. Perp died not as a result of the cop's actions.

Does not come close to Graham v. Connor standards for unlawful use of force.

Back when the law for police actually applied. Since Chauvin, the SCOTUS rules apparently do not.

---

Agree on the tasing not being deadly force, but numerous posters are claiming that a fleeing perp is a threat and deadly force can be used to stop him. They claim, for example, he could have been shot and killed simply running away through the field.

That's simply not true.

---

You hadn't even paid enough attention to hear the cop say "you're under arrest."

I doubt you paid attention enough to actually get a feel for what posters on here are actually advocating for.

---

I paid attention to the incorrect nonsense you posted on page one.

---

If you can't see how placing a higher value on criminals' safety than the safety and well being of the general public places citizens in danger and hurts them and society then there is no reasoning with you.

---

The problem is that the officer's actions did put the public at risk. You can't make a blanket statement about what to do when the suspect runs. In this case, the perpetrator would have made it safely to the other side of that section of road without the officer's intervention. If he had waited to tase the guy after he crosses the road, then this is a completely different conversation.

aggiez03 said:

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I haven't read all this thread, but the driver is mostly to blame for the death...

I timed it and it was 5 seconds between the time the officer tased the guy and the car hit him.

If you are driving and see a flashlight bouncing across the road, you should be slowing down to a crawl.
That is not a hard thing to determine and doesn't look like a car, motorcycle, or anything else.

In fact, if you are driving and see ANY white light directly in front of you in the road, you better be slowing or stopping immediately.

The officer swept side to side with the flashlight and the perp was also lit up.

I don't understand how you can hit a 6 foot long target in the road.

Maybe the cop should not have tazed the guy once he crossed the guard rail, but the car driver is an idiot.

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It's actually "common" for cops to get hit while at traffic stops, basically happens weekly.

There are some awful drivers out there. Plus think about how many deer get hit a year, it's really easy to Sunday morning drive this one on the driver. It wouldn't be hard at all to do. From having driven tons of times to Fort Collins from Denver at night, it's a boring stretch of road and pretty chill for a while.

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/leo/default.html#:~:text=1%2C387%20officer%20line%2Dof%2Dduty,vehicle%20(8%25%20of%20total)

Logos Stick said:

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I'd say you don't tase unless a threat, but I don't really know the law.

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Don't feel bad. The cops don't know the law either. This cop made a really bad decision and while the suspect wasn't making any better decisions, I hope the officer is removed from duty. That kind of poor 'quick thinking' is what gets good people killed as well.

BBRex said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Logos Stick said:

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aggiehawg said:

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This thread shoudl be done.

Cop did not employ deadly force. Perp died not as a result of the cop's actions.

Does not come close to Graham v. Connor standards for unlawful use of force.

Back when the law for police actually applied. Since Chauvin, the SCOTUS rules apparently do not.

---

Agree on the tasing not being deadly force, but numerous posters are claiming that a fleeing perp is a threat and deadly force can be used to stop him. They claim, for example, he could have been shot and killed simply running away through the field.

That's simply not true.

---

You hadn't even paid enough attention to hear the cop say "you're under arrest."

I doubt you paid attention enough to actually get a feel for what posters on here are actually advocating for.

---

I paid attention to the incorrect nonsense you posted on page one.

---

If you can't see how placing a higher value on criminals' safety than the safety and well being of the general public places citizens in danger and hurts them and society then there is no reasoning with you.

---

The problem is that the officer's actions did put the public at risk. You can't make a blanket statement about what to do when the suspect runs. In this case, the perpetrator would have made it safely to the other side of that section of road without the officer's intervention. If he had waited to tase the guy after he crosses the road, then this is a completely different conversation.

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Ahhh so you're arguing that if the officers had asked nicely the fleeing suspect would have exited the road and waited patiently on the other side for his arrest......

Ya know....just like the perp did when the officer had attempted to arrest him while the perp was standing beside his vehicle before he fled the first time.

Sounds totally legit.

Your logic is unassailable.

Rapier108 said:

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Running from the cops, especially across the highway, is always a bad idea, taser or no taser.

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Damn this guy was so ****ed up that he turned into my 4 year old.

aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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Use of non-deadly force can become use of deadly force depending on the facts and circumstance of the situation. That's all I'm trying to say.

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Then you are wrong.

Would a dumb jury take the same wrong take? Yes, Because juries are dumb and cray cray.

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We'll have to agree to disagree then.

But I bet we can agree on one thing.

A lot of people have made a really good living being wrong all the time.

BrazosDog02 said:

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Logos Stick said:

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I'd say you don't tase unless a threat, but I don't really know the law.

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Don't feel bad. The cops don't know the law either. This cop made a really bad decision and while the suspect wasn't making any better decisions, I hope the officer is removed from duty. That kind of poor 'quick thinking' is what gets good people killed as well.

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Good to know you think one must only run to avoid a cop

Not picking sides here because giving a fake identity is a minor crime and a taser should not be life threatening. However, my expectation is that the taxpayers of that city will get a large bill when all is said and done.

How's about the kid just say yes sir, no sir, and don't lie to the cop and don't run when he gets caught.

The kid is the problem, not the cop